Lizzo and "body positivity"

mfceiling

This one is forever on about body positivity and fat shaming. Had a quick google and she's 5ft 10 and weighs 22 stone!! Her BMI is 44.2...classified as obese.

Now body shaming is obviously a thing but this girl is horrifically overweight. High blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease etc are all associated with being overweight. Should she really be celebrated as a positive body role model?

andekwarhola

Hate sounding obvious and smartass but I never know who of any of these people are, thankfully. Surely it's easy to avoid them?

AlphabetCards

Ten years ago the lizzo thing would annoy me.

But older me recognizes that this artificially-generated provocation-stimulus, outrage-response is all a game to make people money out of my clicks and time.

Ignore the media and social media, and all of a sudden this nonsense doesn't matter.

super_furry

You sound annoyed. Have you tried writing her a letter? Maybe cut some letters out magazines and paste them to a page as a cute way of getting her to notice it.

Signore Fancy Pants

I just Googled to see who this was.

I recommend not doing the same. Jesus fcuking christ.

Elemonator

There definitely is the issue of modern media pushing the ideal of what is a beautiful body. On the flip size, the body positivity movement has pushed the notion that we should accept everyone even if they promote an unhealthy lifestyle.

I'd support anyone not feeling comfortable in their skin to change and not put them down but I will not tell them they are fine when they are heading for problems.

JohnnyFlash

AlphabetCards wrote: »

Ten years ago the lizzo thing would annoy me.

But older me recognizes that this artificially-generated provocation-stimulus, outrage-response is all a game to make people money out of my clicks and time.

Ignore the media and social media, and all of a sudden this nonsense doesn't matter.

It doesn’t matter to you, but it is having atremendously negative impact on society as a whole.

Strapping Mark Zuckerberg to a rocket and firing him far into space would be good for humanity. And entertaining I suppose. Unlike his ghoulish websites.

RocketRaccoon

I get she's morbidly obese and there are plenty of other people around who look up to her as an inspiration that you can be a success despite being that size.

But she shouldn't be promoted at all, she's very unhealthy. Her body is not a nice thing to look at and kids shouldn't aspire to be like that.

super_furry

RocketRaccoon wrote: »

But she shouldn't be promoted at all, she's very unhealthy. Her body is not a nice thing to look at and kids shouldn't aspire to be like that.

She's singing songs, not selling diet plans.

mfceiling

super_furry wrote: »

You sound annoyed. Have you tried writing her a letter? Maybe cut some letters out magazines and paste them to a page as a cute way of getting her to notice it.

Not annoyed. Just an article I saw in the guardian and couldn't believe she was talking about body positivity when she weighs 22 stone!!

AlphabetCards

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It doesn’t matter to you, but it is having atremendously negative impact on society as a whole.

Strapping Mark Zuckerberg to a rocket and firing him far into space would be good for humanity. And entertaining I suppose. Unlike his ghoulish websites.

I'll never change it Johnny, none of us will. Unless the unabomber resurrects himself and takes out many, many data centres and changes how products and data are cached, collated and sold, this is the society we have to live in. Well, you guys can live in it. I'll be living down in cornwall, running a small business and living on a self sufficient farm, God willing. Might even convince the missus to drop the broadband altogether.

RocketRaccoon

super_furry wrote: »

She's singing songs, not selling diet plans.

And her music is fine, no issue with it at all. But you can't deny she is being promoted as an inspiration to other women which I think is wrong.

Ipso

Living her troof

AlphabetCards

mfceiling wrote: »

Not annoyed. Just an article I saw in the guardian and couldn't believe she was talking about body positivity when she weighs 22 stone!!

The Guardian has had its time. At least Rusbridger had lived through some experiences that shaped his viewpoints. Viner, Toynbee, Calldwlldr et al are just another face of centrist neo-liberal Oxbridge types. Lol.

mfceiling

AlphabetCards wrote: »

The Guardian has had its time. At least Rusbridger had lived through some experiences that shaped his viewpoints. Viner, Toynbee, Calldwlldr et al are just another face of centrist neo-liberal Oxbridge types. Lol.

No idea what any of that means.

andekwarhola

If you're morbidly obese, you certainly shouldn't be subject to abuse but nor should there be moronic social media campaigns to 'celebrate' the 'positivity' of being that overweight.

As noted already, it's just another terrible byproduct of the consequences of democratizing the Internet for cretins.

Alkers

super_furry wrote: »

She's singing songs, not selling diet plans.

Yeah but her music videos and live performances have her flaunting around in the same kind of clothes as all the rest of the pop starts.

She's in a movie Hustlers in which she plays a stripper, doesn't leave anything to the imagination - only just about made up for by JLo playing a similar role...

Bobblehats

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I just Googled to see who this was.

I recommend not doing the same. Jesus fcuking christ.

Thanks, I won’t - you know I have a fairly strong stomach and the compulsion to check these things out usually overrides any sensibilities but I think on this occasion I will refrain.

Raconteuse

super_furry wrote: »

She's singing songs, not selling diet plans.

She's saying it's ok to be at a weight which increases the risk of diabetes, arthritis, heart conditions, some cancers, and early death. Someone here said "her body is not nice to look at" - I don't care about that and I don't care what she chooses to do herself, but it's not ok to spread a positivity message about such an unhealthy way to be. And the very same would apply if she was underweight and promoting a body positive message about this.

And a healthy weight doesn't mean a perfect, ultra toned body - it's not unrealistic/unattainable.

nullzero

Celebrating a condition that shortens life expectancy and puts pressure on the health care system, and by extension costs the taxpayer a fortune, is never a good idea.
Being body positive about being morbidly obese is a symptom of the modern notion of, offend nobody and by extension celebrate everybody just to be safe.

Your Face

RobertKK

It is just being positive about being on the road to an early death.

bladespin

If you don't like it then look the other way, personally she wouldn't be my cup of tea but I honestly like her personality, very sound, down to earth and really doesn't care what people think/say , probably just as well.

Wibbs

andekwarhola wrote: »

As noted already, it's just another terrible byproduct of the consequences of democratizing the Internet for cretins.

I'd reckon it's that A, plus the more niches like "plus sized" and all the other self identification labels that are all the rage now fighting "to be heard" are just another way to narrow marketing focus down even more. So ArseBook has 50 "genders" and "sexualities" and the marketing bods note that "Two spirit" users buy more hats, so fire more adverts for hats at them, "Plus size" buy more boxsets so fire more adverts for boxsets at them and so on.

MakingMovies2

I don't see anything wrong with her. I think she looks gorgeous tbh. I'm glad there's such a talented performer out there who doesn't have what's called a 'perfect' body. I don't see why people feel the need to knock her.

Raconteuse

Hardly anyone has a perfect body. 10 stone overweight is hardly just "imperfect" though.

People shouldn't give her personally abuse but her message does deserve scrutiny.

mathie

MakingMovies2 wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with her. I think she looks gorgeous tbh. I'm glad there's such a talented performer out there who doesn't have what's called a 'perfect' body. I don't see why people feel the need to knock her.

She certainly has her knockers.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Raconteuse wrote: »

She's saying it's ok to be at a weight which increases the risk of diabetes, arthritis, heart conditions, some cancers, and early death. Someone here said "her body is not nice to look at" - I don't care about that and I don't care what she chooses to do herself, but it's not ok to spread a positivity message about such an unhealthy way to be. And the very same would apply if she was underweight and promoting a body positive message about this.

And a healthy weight doesn't mean a perfect, ultra toned body - it's not unrealistic/unattainable.

But seriously like, who is going to emulate her? I’m going to guess that anyone else who is 22 stone would have been that weight with or without Lizzo.

MakingMovies2

mathie wrote: »

She certainly has her knockers.

That's just crude

mfceiling

MakingMovies2 wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with her. I think she looks gorgeous tbh. I'm glad there's such a talented performer out there who doesn't have what's called a 'perfect' body. I don't see why people feel the need to knock her.

I've never heard her music personally so I can't judge her talent, however her body size and weight are far from perfect and as such it shouldn't be a case of saying "hurrah for you and your body positivity". 22 stone is very overweight and there's nothing positive about that.

skallywag

From the talent perspective, she's not a great singer?

seamus

Elemonator wrote: »

There definitely is the issue of modern media pushing the ideal of what is a beautiful body. On the flip size, the body positivity movement has pushed the notion that we should accept everyone even if they promote an unhealthy lifestyle.

I'd support anyone not feeling comfortable in their skin to change and not put them down but I will not tell them they are fine when they are heading for problems.

This is it. It's a hard one to balance.

We should "accept" everyone regardless of their size. Being fat doesn't reduce their worth as a person, and doesn't make them less deserving of respect.
No more than being fit and skinny makes someone a better person deserving of respect.

However, there is an undercurrent of "You're not allowed to say that being fat is bad", "Having facilities not accessible to people over 20 stone is ableist", "Not putting fat people in ads is fat-shaming".

And that has to stop. Because the fact of the matter is that being fat is bad for your health. Putting a positive slant on it, is not good public health policy. Not promoting healthier lifestyles, not promoting healty weights, will result in a major health crisis.

The comparison can always be made with smoking. People are allowed to be smokers. But that doesn't mean that we should allow smoking to be promoted as a positive lifestyle choice, or that we should make special accomodations for smokers.

Lizzo can say she's fat and she's happy and that's good for her. The smoking campaigner guy says the same about being a smoker.

But it's also OK for me to say that Lizzo is class 3 morbidly obese and her immense frame is going to result in serious health complications before she's 40 and a very premature death. There's nothing mean or fatshaming about that.

wakka12

Who the **** cares. If she is happy with her body, just let her be. It is literally none of your business and I completely disagree that people not making her feel **** about herself because of her weight will make her young fans think its okay to become obese

ILoveYourVibes

Shaming doesn't work it just makes people feel ****.

Positivity and confidence actually would encourage people to go to a gym. When you are happy and confident you want to take care of your body.

KiKi III

Don’t remember the thread about the risk to the individuals and society about the last Victoria’s Secret show where underweight models with unhealthy BMIs are glorified...

Raconteuse

wakka12 wrote: »

Who the **** cares. If she is happy with her body, just let her be. It is literally none of your business and I completely disagree that people not making her feel **** about herself because of her weight will make her young fans think its okay to become obese

Many care. No I can't accept the above. You're in the public eye and claim you're happy with being the best part of 10 stone overweight, you're positive about it... others will express the opinion that this is a problematic message - as would the same from an underweight person be.

The original body positive message was about not feeling bad if you don't have a perfectly toned sculpted physique with virtually no fat. That you're not monstrous if you have a wobbly bit, some cellulite, some saggyness, are a size 14. It was never about being positive in relation to being several stone overweight and risking numerous health problems.

Raconteuse

KiKi III wrote: »

Don’t remember the thread about the risk to the individuals and society about the last Victoria’s Secret shoe where underweight models with unhealthy BMIs are glorified...

Never heard of it. And yeah of course it's a terrible message.

Jonybgud

No mirrors in her house...

Seamai

mfceiling wrote: »

I've never heard her music personally so I can't judge her talent, however her body size and weight are far from perfect and as such it shouldn't be a case of saying "hurrah for you and your body positivity". 22 stone is very overweight and there's nothing positive about that.

I'd not heard of her till I read an article in last week's Sunday Times, I mentioned her to one of my younger female colleagues who has has her own weight issues and the response I got was "Oh she's great, I love her, she's making it much easier for women to feel comfortable about their weigh" I was taken aback and didn't want to offend my colleague but the fact of the matter is that unless Lizzo loses weight, besides a raft of health issues she's looking at a substantially shorter life span.
On the other end of the spectrum the same paper six weeks earlier had a fashion shoot featuring a painfully thin young woman, clothes hanging off her, a lot of flesh on show so you could see her bones protruding, the poses accentuated her gauntness, I found it quite disturbing that someone would think that she looked attractive. Both these extremes must send out highly confusing and dangerous messages to impressionable young people.

Galwayguy35

KiKi III wrote: »

Don’t remember the thread about the risk to the individuals and society about the last Victoria’s Secret show where underweight models with unhealthy BMIs are glorified...

Who's glorifying them?

The fashion industry is putting them under pressure to be thin but I haven't seen anyone say it's a great thing to look anorexic.

This Lizzo one is a walking heart attack and this will result in a shorter lifespan for her and size zero models will also suffer health problems.

Neither look is a healthy one.

ILoveYourVibes

Raconteuse wrote: »

Never heard of it. And yeah of course it's a terrible message.

I have an underweight bmi ..its natural. I can't help it.

Different people have a diff bmi that is healthy for them.

Some people are just 'husky'. They can still be fit though.

Lack of body positivity stops bigger people from going to the gym because they don't think their bodies are good enough.

People are always saying crap about my body. Really hurtful things ..that i am anorexic ..no man would want me...how do i have my period etc. Mostly it comes from people who are really unhappy about their own bodies.

ILoveYourVibes

KiKi III wrote: »

Don’t remember the thread about the risk to the individuals and society about the last Victoria’s Secret show where underweight models with unhealthy BMIs are glorified...

This is dumb.

Firstly the percentage of people suffering from eating disorders is small. Whereas the vast majority of people in the US are obese.

There is an issue of eating disorders. But its not a pandemic. There is an obesity crisis.

60% of adults over 40 in the US have metabolic syndrome. That means they are not just over weight ..they are so overweight and have been for so long they now have a myriad of health issues associated with that.

Part of the reason thinness IS so glorified ..is because now its rare.

You can't compare the two issues though. One affects a small amount of people and mostly at a particular age group.

The other affects the majority of people in the western world and every age group ..particularly older people.

While i am sympathetic to people who are over weight. We do need to educate people on the health affects so they can make better choices.

They may never lose the weight but maybe they will realize they need to see their Dr more often and realize their obesity makes their immune system vulnerable ..makes them more vulnerable to clots etc ..metabolic syndrome.

They might not be able to lose the weight. But they can still be much healthier at their current weight if they take certain steps.

A person who is obese and active is way way way more healthy than an obese person who is inactive.

anewme

Then you've people looking up to Tyson Fury and people like that who are in a binge weight cycle. That's not good either.

banie01

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I just Googled to see who this was.

I recommend not doing the same. Jesus fcuking christ.

I had the misfortune of seeing a swimsuit photo

ILoveYourVibes

banie01 wrote: »

I had the misfortune of seeing a swimsuit photo

She looks fab. She is being active at the beach and getting some exercise and having fun !

wakka12

I cant believe people look at her and think unhealthy and fixate on her weight. To me she looks so happy and vibrant and just radiates positivity

Still waters

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

I just Googled to see who this was.

I recommend not doing the same. Jesus fcuking christ.

Jesus she's like a round bale

One eyed Jack

wakka12 wrote: »

I cant believe people look at her and think unhealthy and fixate on her weight. To me she looks so happy and vibrant and just radiates positivity

I find it hard to believe you find that hard to believe

Meh, honestly I’m a fan of the larger ladies, but I’m not so deluded as to imagine it’s in any way healthy or that there’s anything positive about it beyond a sexual fetish.

I’m just glad I’m a guy and a fat fcuk like me doesn’t come in for anything near the same amount of scrutiny and “concerns for my health” as women :pac:

Raconteuse

wakka12 wrote: »

I cant believe people look at her and think unhealthy and fixate on her weight. To me she looks so happy and vibrant and just radiates positivity

If Lizzo wants to eat five thousand calories a day, dress in skimpy clothing and feel sexy as fuq, that is Lizzo's business. I agree it is quite refreshing. I don't think she should feel sh1t.

But if she says to the public that her weight is something to be positive about, simply responding with "I disagree" is not unfair.

ILoveYourVibes

wakka12 wrote: »

I cant believe people look at her and think unhealthy and fixate on her weight. To me she looks so happy and vibrant and just radiates positivity

She is beautiful. She is vibrant. But she is unhealthy. Obese people today are living longer because we have statins and meds to help them. But this is not true self love.

"I also feel strongly that we love ourselves enough to acknowledge there are serious health consequences that come with obesity — heart disease, diabetes, cancer to name only a few."

Jillian Micheals.

ILoveYourVibes

This article is SO misinformed.

I think every DR would disagree with it. It is spreading a dangerous message.

Yes overweight people DO have multiple health issues because of their weight only. And yes most people will have these issues as they get older.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2020/1/15/21060692/lizzo-jillian-michaels-body-positivity-backlash