Mental Load

woodchuck

Ladies, are many of you like me and feel you carry the burden of the “mental load” in your relationship? Anything that involves a bit of forethought and organisation almost always falls to me. This includes things like meal plans for the week, preparing the weekly shopping list, organising holidays, booking the NCT etc.

If I ask him to do things, he generally will… after numerous reminders. But to me, that doesn’t actually remove the mental load, as I’m still the one that has to remember to remind him in order for it to get done! Sometimes it’s just easier to do it myself, but I don’t want to become a doormat either.

How do you deal with this? How do you make sure it doesn’t lead to resentment in the relationship? We don’t even have kids, but I can only imagine what that would be like…

sammyjo90

I dont have any fixes for you woodchuck as im in a similar situation.
We have a white board to put things on which helps a bit!

Alkers

Not a lady myself but what works for us is just to assign responsibility for different things to different people as supposed to trying it on a task based level.
Why don't you start with asking your OH to look after everything in relation to the car(s)? Tax, NCT, tyres, servicing etc and keeping on top of all the dates? If you're reminding him to get the NCT sorted, it's really you looking after it

miamee

It's a common thing apparently and I would agree to a certain extent. I am definitely the one who keeps track of things we have agreed to go to, when we have a weekend free, remembering occasions and buying the appropriate card & gifts, food shopping list, etc. We usually do food shopping together and he does a lot of the cooking though so that's good. I read an article about this phenomenon before and I've found this one too - I don't think this was the same one but same theme, you might find something in it, woodchuck. Even knowing you are not the only one is a help. Having said that, OH would be much more on top of things that need to be done to the house froma DIY perspective, etc. things I would never notice or think of so there is some balance there.

Loveinapril

Yep, Woodchuck. Yes to all of it! We have two small kids and it hasn't gotten any easier. I am the one who has to book vaccines, appointments, arrange childcare, organise their drawers when they grow out of stuff, etc. My husband recently asked me when our son should be starting ECCE, without any awareness of waiting lists or early enrollments. We have synced up our Google calendars, have a family planner type calendar in the kitchen and have a Whatsapp group for child minding. But I look after all bills and he just puts X amount in my account each week. He is genuinely terrible at money management and general organisation so I encourage him to put his various bill due dates (car tax, insurance, phone etc.) in his phone calendar a week or so early so he isn't left short when the bill comes out. I feel like such a cliche but I am definitely in charge of the household and childcare stuff. It is difficult and I do sometimes hit a wall but he just lacks initiative in a lot of ways. Most of my friend's husbands are the same.

meeeeh

I do everything from grocery shopping, cooking, house work, kids activities, bills which are not paid with dd. I even picked family car on my own. I don't do DIY, anything to do with garden, garage and similar. It's sounds terrible but we have a business and he works really long hours and I work half day.

We are both equally rubbish keeping on top of appointments, it has happened before I got end of school date wrong. Anyway I'm not overly bothered about that, he carries a lot bigger mental load for work than I do.

I 100% sympathise.

I freaked out at my boyfriend the other day. We're trying to buy a house and for the first 2 months I did everything.

He just showed up to appointments, answered the questions he was asked and started planning furniture.

I don't know anyone who has bought a house, and had absolutely no guidance. I felt so frustrated with the whole process. Finding houses to view, knowing how and when to get structural surveys, getting quotes from solicitors, life assurance, valuations, trying to get all my savings together. One day I asked if he could go to the post office to send off a letter and his response was that he doesn't know where his nearest post office is (it's a 6 min walk).

When I finally reached breaking point with the stress of it, I came to him upset and told him that if he actually wants this to happen he needs to take on some of the work. His response of course, was "sure, what do you want me to do?".

He really is the best, and I appreciate it so much that I can go to him and let him know when something is bothering me, but he just doesn't get it at all that what I want is to not have to be the person that wants stuff done. Asking me what I want him to do seems so reasonable, but that's the entire problem! Most of the work is researching this stuff and figuring out how you're supposed to do it. He said he had left it to me because I'm just "so much better at it" and because I "seemed like I knew how to do everything". Like what?? At what point did he think I just woke up in the morning with an structural surveyor's phone number in my head?

Something simple like the bins are a perfect example. I'll ask him to take them out, he takes them out, I thank him. It's like it's a favour to me because ultimately it's me who had to care about it.

sammyjo90

true-or-false wrote: »

Something simple like the bins are a perfect example. I'll ask him to take them out, he takes them out, I thank him. It's like it's a favour to me because ultimately it's me who had to care about it.

Ive actually stopped thanking him for doing stuff like that when he does it for that exact reason! He also needs the bins taken out/dishes taken out of dishwasher. He is getting the hint (i think). Like he doesnt announce it anymore when its done :pac:

Cash_Q

true-or-false wrote:

I don't know anyone who has bought a house, and had absolutely no guidance. I felt so frustrated with the whole process. Finding houses to view, knowing how and when to get structural surveys, getting quotes from solicitors, life assurance, valuations, trying to get all my savings together. One day I asked if he could go to the post office to send off a letter and his response was that he doesn't know where his nearest post office is (it's a 6 min walk).

I looked after every single thing when we bought our house. Except for him getting his salary cert signed, I organised everything. He emailed me his pay slips to print, I did the maths on how much he should save (I earn more so we worked it out proportionately), I organised everything with the broker, estate agent, insurance, survey, movers, furniture, utilities, etc. And I still do all of that kind of stuff.

true-or-false wrote:

Something simple like the bins are a perfect example. I'll ask him to take them out, he takes them out, I thank him. It's like it's a favour to me because ultimately it's me who had to care about it.

We have assigned things around the house that we do which keeps me happy enough. He does the dishwasher, hot washes, hoovering, baby bottle washes every morning and puts out the wheelie bins once a week (always checks which bin with me even though he knows). I think that's it. I do the bathroom, empty every household bin, all other clothes washing, change beds, mop floors, prepare all our daughter's meals, pretty much everything else around the house that needs to be done. The garden or DIY wouldn't enter his mind. Even changing a lightbulb, he would never be the first to do it. I don't thank him for anything, he used to announce what he had done as though he was deserving of thanks but he doesn't thank me for the stuff I do so I don't thank him. It's both our house so it's both our responsibility. I do way more than him and I'm sure he thinks it's the other way around but he does tasks I hate so I'm happy enough. I gave up cooking for us both a while ago and its been great, I did all the cooking but sure he wouldn't want half the meals I cook so he would hmmm and haww with no suggestions of alternatives so fcuk that hes making his own meals now.

As someone else said, he totally lacks initiative. In my case I blame his mother. He'd never been allowed to make decisions when growing up, she controls everything. His household was volatile so he's nearly conditioned against making a decision in case it's wrong and he upsets anyone. He runs everything by me including every single night when I'm dressing our daughter for bed, he asks if he should get her milk ready....YES for the 500th consecutive time...

The more women I talk to the more common this nonsense is, but I don't see my dad or my brothers carrying on like this, and I don't want my children growing up thinking it's normal for a woman to have the burden of responsibility running a house. It took a LONG time to get to where we are but with baby 2 on the way he will be taking on more over the coming months, there's no two ways about it. And listen he's great, he doesn't leave dirty laundry or rubbish hanging around like some people do, he's tidy in general, it's just an inability to see everything I'm doing as tasks that he could get equally involved in.

mcgragger

For balance here....
Im 9 years married and 12 years living together with my Wife.

I work stupid hours. I pay all of the bills including the car loans,tax and insurance, mortgage, money into her account every week. I look after the maintenance of the house. I do the bins. Bathrooms are mine for cleaning. I book the holiday after we decide the location. I book the flights and book the car rental , make sure the passports are in date and the insurance is all done. I do Christmas shopping after kids have made lists etc. We have never even discussed money. Im lucky to have a decent salary but the job is taking its toll on my mental health.
Herself makes dinners and takes kids to school. Does the food shopping and does most of the housework. The only point of debate in the house is laundry. I do me own but she has enough clothing to open a large retail store.
We don't fight about if but there ls about 8 baskets full at any time in my house.

I'd swap in a heartbeat. Id happily do the cooking and cleaning in return for financial stability and comfort that a good salary provides and my wife could earn more than me if she worked full time.

So it's swings and roundabouts. We've a good balance between reality and wishlist. Im sure my wife would love if I put the apron on and did all the housework as well but im not doing it. My mental load is ensuring we have enough money to live. If she started giving me hassle about housework we'd be in trouble.

zapper55

I see it time and time again with my friends husbands. They expect birthday presents for all family members including their own to magically appear, medical appointments are assumed to be taken care of by the mother, no concept of vaccination schedules.

And dont get me started on the oh you just have to ask me to help. Nope you are a grown adult.

I think you'll have to agree a clear demarcation of tasks. And start as you mean to go on. It can be easier in the short term to do the tasks yourself as the lady buying the house mentions, but it starts bad habits. You need to sort everything to do with the solicitor etc. And if you dont know where to start, well neither do I, google it. Presumably he has a job that he manages to do without someone holding his hand.

mcgragger

mcgragger wrote: »

I'd swap in a heartbeat. Id happily do the cooking and cleaning in return for financial stability and comfort that a good salary provides and my wife could earn more than me if she worked full time.

My mental load is ensuring we have enough money to live. If she started giving me hassle about housework we'd be in trouble.

I think that's part of the issue other posters here have though. Your relationship is very similar to the stereotypical breadwinner/homemaker scenario where you each have separate areas of responsibility (except that you actually seem to be responsible for a lot of household stuff). However for cultural and economic reasons its far more normal now for each partner in a relationship to have separate careers and be financially independent. If I lost my job tomorrow I'd expect my boyfriend to help support me temporarily but ultimately the loss of income would be my problem to fix, and my half of rent and bills would still be my half, so he certainly isn't expected to be the breadwinner. Meanwhile psychologically it's difficult for me as a woman to escape feeling like it's on me to make sure the house (and other household affairs) are in order. That's where mental load comes in - he's happy to do half of the household stuff, but he needs training, instruction, and praise, and the responsibility to ensure it's done still sits with me.

In fact in my personal scenario, I leave for work 2 hours before him, get home an hour after him (if I'm not working overtime, which l often do), study in my spare time and attend evening and weekend lectures. My job is also a fair bit more stressful than his, and often follows me home. Meanwhile he's quite settled in his career and gets to relax in the evenings. So it just isn't practical that there were times I was leaving for work at 7am, not able to attend to any personal matters during the day, getting home at 11pm and then having to email surveyors for updates because I'm unable to take their calls at a reasonable hour, when my other half could have handled it if he'd felt responsible at all.

jam_mac_jam

You just have to ask me drives me mad. No I am not a project manager in the house and things need to be organised and done without me organising the workload.

mcgragger

true-or-false wrote: »

I think that's part of the issue other posters here have though. Your relationship is very similar to the stereotypical breadwinner/homemaker scenario where you each have separate areas of responsibility (except that you actually seem to be responsible for a lot of household stuff). However for cultural and economic reasons its far more normal now for each partner in a relationship to have separate careers and be financially independent. If I lost my job tomorrow I'd expect my boyfriend to help support me temporarily but ultimately the loss of income would be my problem to fix, and my half of rent and bills would still be my half, so he certainly isn't expected to be the breadwinner. Meanwhile psychologically it's difficult for me as a woman to escape feeling like it's on me to make sure the house (and other household affairs) are in order. That's where mental load comes in - he's happy to do half of the household stuff, but he needs training, instruction, and praise, and the responsibility to ensure it's done still sits with me.

In fact in my personal scenario, I leave for work 2 hours before him, get home an hour after him (if I'm not working overtime, which l often do), study in my spare time and attend evening and weekend lectures. My job is also a fair bit more stressful than his, and often follows me home. Meanwhile he's quite settled in his career and gets to relax in the evenings. So it just isn't practical that there were times I was leaving for work at 7am, not able to attend to any personal matters during the day, getting home at 11pm and then having to email surveyors for updates because I'm unable to take their calls at a reasonable hour, when my other half could have handled it if he'd felt responsible at all.

I think when kids come along there a shifts in the thought processes. Nature dictates that the woman has the baby so inevitably it was her that had to take the career break. We have 2 kids now and we have just fallen into our routines.
She told me flat out that she doesnt want to go back to work. She just does 12 hours a week. Shes happy with that and shes happy that she is mothering our kids and not farming them off to a creche 40 hours a week. I am too - and I am lucky I have a salary that supports the lifestyle we choose however I get mini panic attacks when I actually stop and think about what I am responsible for, 2 little kids and the roof over their head!

I think we have it even enough although there are times when you just fling your hands up and have a rant. My house is never tidy unless there are visitors due. Drives me mad. Its not dirty but its a battle to keep floors clean. As I type here I have had to battle to my ikea desk that I have in the spare room. The floor is covered completely. The sitting rooms the same. Do I moan. No, nor do I want to tidy the stuff up. We just dont argue about trivial ****. The important stuff gets done. We probably sit down every few weeks and chat about what needs to be done and then get on with it. We dont need to thank each other but every few weeks with a few glasses of red onboard we'll have a back slapping session. :-)

I dont expect to be thanked for doing the basics nor does she but its important to acknowledge that sometimes the basics absolutely suck.

Your fella needs a kick up the hole to get him to cop on

bee06

Myself and my husband were always very even up until having a child and he still does loads around the house but I seem to have ended up with the majority of the child related stuff. I do every bedtime because toddler refuses to let daddy do bedtime and then sort lunch for him the next day after. At 8.5 months pregnant and working full time until last week, husband asks me why I don’t ask him to do things instead of doing them myself. Why do I have ask him to do things that need to be done every day!

Cash_Q

mcgragger wrote:

I think when kids come along there a shifts in the thought processes. Nature dictates that the woman has the baby so inevitably it was her that had to take the career break. We have 2 kids now and we have just fallen into our routines. She told me flat out that she doesnt want to go back to work. She just does 12 hours a week. Shes happy with that and shes happy that she is mothering our kids and not farming them off to a creche 40 hours a week. I am too - and I am lucky I have a salary that supports the lifestyle we choose however I get mini panic attacks when I actually stop and think about what I am responsible for, 2 little kids and the roof over their head!

Please be mindful that those of us who choose to return to work full time, either by choice or financial necessity, are not farming our children off to a creche or whatever childcare we use. I earn double my husband's salary so it's not an option to stay at home or work 12 hours. As I outlined earlier things arent 50/50 but I'm happy enough, I get home earlier and have teachers holidays so I do more, but I also have school related work to do in the evenings and weekends which my husband doesn't. I'm sure you didn't mean to offend anyone but you are in a very privileged position to be able to have your wife working 12 hours. I know the pressure of having to keep the roof over our heads as well as all the other mental load stuff discussed throughout the thread.

mcgragger wrote:

I think we have it even enough although there are times when you just fling your hands up and have a rant. My house is never tidy unless there are visitors due. Drives me mad. Its not dirty but its a battle to keep floors clean. As I type here I have had to battle to my ikea desk that I have in the spare room. The floor is covered completely. The sitting rooms the same. Do I moan. No, nor do I want to tidy the stuff up. We just dont argue about trivial ****. The important stuff gets done. We probably sit down every few weeks and chat about what needs to be done and then get on with it. We dont need to thank each other but every few weeks with a few glasses of red onboard we'll have a back slapping session. :-)

I think most households with kids are the same, big clean up when visitors are coming but otherwise tidy as we go. We don't argue about any of it anymore either, it's pointless, we're both on the go until the baby goes to bed and sometimes a bit after, but rarely is one of us sitting around while the other does everything, it's just that I'm in the house more so I'm doing more.

woodchuck

Glad to hear I'm not the only one at least!

"We're" planning a wedding at the moment and I've easily done about 95% of the work. I've tried to delegate tasks to him. I don't expect him to care about something like flowers, but he still hasn't done anything about his suit for example! He eventually booked a DJ, but that's pretty much all he's done. I've actually broken down in tears a couple of times because of the stress of it all (not a manipulation tactic, literally just having a meltdown from the weight of planning it all on top of day to day stuff). When that has happened he's been good about helping for a couple of days and then it just goes back to me doing everything again :rolleyes:

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

You just have to ask me drives me mad. No I am not a project manager in the house and things need to be organised and done without me organising the workload.

This really annoys me too. If you need me to ask, then I'm still carrying the mental load. How hard is it to do things without being asked!

We both work full time, but it wouldn't be unusual for me to get home an hour before him. So I naturally end up cooking dinner for both of us. But when I first moved in, he would just leave the dirty dishes sitting there and I'd do the washing up. I eventually had to sit him down and explain how it's not fair to expect me to do the cooking AND the washing up, after I've done a full day at work too. It still took a lot of reminding after that, but I'm happy to say that he generally does the dishes without needing to be asked now.

I do volunteer work every other weekend though and he could be sitting at home all day long and it wouldn't even occur to him to run the hoover around. If I ASK he'll start peeling some spuds or preheating the oven when I'm on the way home, but it's always a meal I've planned myself and taken the meat out of the freezer the night before (so I'm still carrying the mental load with the planning and reminding). I've love nothing more than to come home to a clean house and dinner on the table some day without having to ask or plan... a lovely pipe dream :rolleyes:

We're also in the early stages of buying a house atm. We're doing a lot of the research together so far, but I'm the one driving it all. He'd never suggest spending an evening looking up houses for example, it's always up to me to be the kill joy and pull out the laptop and get the conversation started.

bee06 wrote: »

Myself and my husband were always very even up until having a child and he still does loads around the house but I seem to have ended up with the majority of the child related stuff. I do every bedtime because toddler refuses to let daddy do bedtime and then sort lunch for him the next day after. At 8.5 months pregnant and working full time until last week, husband asks me why I don’t ask him to do things instead of doing them myself. Why do I have ask him to do things that need to be done every day!

Yeah I'm quite worried about how things will work if/when we have a baby tbh I can completely see myself being the one carried the majority of the mental/emotional load there. It's a hard one to avoid given how maternity and paternity leave works in this country though. Women take 6+ months off to look after the baby, so by the time she goes back to work, you can see how the woman knows how to do everything in relation the baby and guy probably still knows feck all in comparison (I don't mean to generalise, but that's my experience based on all my friends who have babies).

zapper55

Woodchuck would you consider couples counselling? Honestly I wouldnt consider marrying someone that is that lazy in the relationship. Isnt it well for him that when you get very upset he changes but then reverts back to type after. It's really not right to be carrying this much of the burden.

I'm single and keep a house and a full time job by myself and honestly it doesnt sound anywhere near as stressful or as much work as your circumstances. In fact it's very relaxing and stress free.

meeeeh

zapper55 wrote: »

Woodchuck would you consider couples counselling? Honestly I wouldnt consider marrying someone that is that lazy in the relationship. Isnt it well for him that when you get very upset he changes but then reverts back to type after. It's really not right to be carrying this much of the burden.

I'm single and keep a house and a full time job by myself and honestly it doesnt sound anywhere near as stressful or as much work as your circumstances. In fact it's very relaxing and stress free.

I think there is s danger to evaluate the relationship just on one aspect without knowing the full picture. While not everything in relationship is perfect there can be parts that make us very happy and want to spend the life with someone. I can write about my marriage that would imply a very miserable and unequal relationship when nothing is further from the truth. We just have different dynamic than a lot of other people.

I think there is a difference between complaining about aspects of relationships and being miserable in that relationship. You might not consider marrying Woodchuck's boyfriend, mine or anyone else's partner and luckily for you, you don't have to. But that doesn't mean we are not happy in relationships we are in. You might think I'm being very hard on you but I think it's very irresponsible to pass a judgement on relationship and advise not marrying someone on the basis of so little information.

zapper55

You make an excellent point about not advising a breakup based on one post Meeeeh. Which is why I didnt. I suggested couples counselling. I'd be afraid that as unequal a dynamic it is now it'll only get worse after marriage.

I also said that dynamic wouldnt be for me. Which it wouldnt. I'd feel like his mammy.

woodchuck

Thanks zapper, but it's not a problem to such an extent that I think we need counselling. It's something I do talk about openly with him and he does try. It's not that the situation is that bad atm (I do have him "trained" to do the washing up and take out the bins unprompted at least :P). I suppose I'm thinking about the future a lot more at the moment though, especially if we have kids, and I want to make sure we BOTH don't fall into bad habits! Him not pulling his weight, but also me not falling into the "traditional female" role if we have kids.

He's feck all use at planning the wedding, but from talking to my female friends, that definitely seems to be the norm :rolleyes:

He is getting more involved with the house hunting at least and I intend to keep him involved and lifting his fair share of the weight there.

I suppose I'm just interested to hear other peoples experiences and how people deal with it. From talking to friends, I don't think what I'm describing is unusual. It seems to be a common thing that women carry the mental load in relationships, so thought it would be good to discuss here.

Even though we both work full time, he earns a bit more money than I do and normally ends up working longer more stressful hours than I do. So it makes sense that I pick up the slack at home a bit (e.g. getting dinner on and putting on a load of laundry as I'm home from work first). I just don't want it to spiral out of control I guess, so would be good to hear other peoples experiences.

I think we're actually about equal on it. Some things I'll do more of but he'll do dishes and cook way more. If im left to my own devices for weekday dinners I'll eat cereal or something. He takes care of plenty of stuff without me having to think about it. Definitely need that, i work a bit more and have study to think about instead
I wonder if he'd be the one starting this thread now

In terms of dealing with it if anything ever did come up I'd be straight in there with "how did you manage before i showed up? Then do that". Which I've also had asked of me! I think it's best to say asap so it doesn't build up into a thing

woodchuck

Thanks bluewolf, good to hear another perspective!

I think sometimes it comes down to different tolerance levels too?

When left to his own devices, my partner wouldn't bother with a weekly shop and just buy things on the fly on the way home from work to stick on for dinner. Whereas I'm a planner. It would stress me out having to go to the shops after work every day and figure out what I need just because I hadn't planned ahead (it's also more expensive!). He does agree that my way is better though :P

It also wouldn't bother him if there were dirty dishes lying around for days - he'd just wash what he needs as he needs it. But I feel the need to make sure there are no dirty dishes before going to bed. Part of that is because I find it easier to get dinner started the next evening if everything is already clean (don't want have to have to clean pots etc before I can start cooking - that's how the hangry sets in!).

Would you say to him hey i need to start dinner soon, sort the kitchen out
Probably a compromise to be found in there between having them done for a reason vs having them done in general

woodchuck

bluewolf wrote: »

Would you say to him hey i need to start dinner soon, sort the kitchen out
Probably a compromise to be found in there between having them done for a reason vs having them done in general

This is how I get him to do it in the evenings I get home before him, so otherwise it would be left up to me to do the washing up from the night before, before also cooking dinner! So I make sure he knows that I need things cleaned before we go to bed so I can get dinner started once I'm home. He's actually pretty good at this now.

How to convince him to do the hoovering though :P He's one of these people who either just doesn't see dirt or doesn't care!

Stepping Stone

When we were getting married, I drove everything. Absolutely everything that had to be done, down to him buying bloody socks needed me there. What drove me to a near breakdown and permanently damaged our relationship was that despite the fact that I needed to do everything, he demanded a detailed update daily.
He loves to feel in control but is particularly lazy. He took responsibility for all stuff car related. The insurance on both cars lapsed, the tax ran out and the NCT was never booked until I sorted my own car out.
All meal planning is on me, all housework has to be delegated by me. He’s lazy, chronically disorganised and expects me to be the same.
When we were applying for a mortgage, he freaked out at me as soon as we got the document list because I would have anything. I had it all to hand and my side was complete within three hours. It took us another six weeks to get his stuff.
He seems to be just as bad at work, constantly waiting on direction from his manager. It’s a constant complaint that he has had nothing to do for days because his manager hasn’t specified particular work.

meeeeh

We had a wedding planner because neither of us likes wedding organisation (we had wedding in country I come from). I sent out invites and oh did seating arrangements. I think wedding is a specific situation so I wouldn't overly make conclusions on this. Similarly building a house in our case was mostly done by my husband.

I think one person will end up being in charge of things but it doesn't mean you can't split it to different areas. We have large garden and I made it clear I don't care if it's completely overgrown so all the gardening falls on my husband. Max I will do is pick up something he needs in the shop. I'm purposely not touching anything because it could end up being my responsibility. I'm not even attempting DIY and anything to do with house maintenance will be only organized if I'm asked to.

In our case he does a lot more at work so our work load at home is adjusted accordingly but I think with some stuff it's just better to let it go. Electricity and health insurance go from my account so I will check pricing and switch providers. We are probably overpaying our Sky but it's going from his account and if he can't be bothered to update subscription then he can pay for it.

I think sometimes it's just as hard to learn not to do something and let it go. Of course you can't just ignore kids no matter how much you want to sometimes but for example we limited the amount of activities kids do so we are not overwhelmed.

HildaOgdenx

woodchuck wrote: »

This is how I get him to do it in the evenings I get home before him, so otherwise it would be left up to me to do the washing up from the night before, before also cooking dinner! So I make sure he knows that I need things cleaned before we go to bed so I can get dinner started once I'm home. He's actually pretty good at this now.

How to convince him to do the hoovering though :P He's one of these people who either just doesn't see dirt or doesn't care!

The topic of 'mental load' is one that comes up a lot on Mumsnet, so you're definitely not alone https://www.mumsnet.com

I'm not sure anyone has found the solution but there may be some ideas there to help balance things.

baby and crumble

As someone in a same-sex relationship, it's not the case that women do all of the mental load, I just think for whatever reason people tend to go for some kind of opposite in romantic relationships. My wife is - and she'd say this herself - pretty lazy when it comes to general housework and cooking, but she's so much better with practical organising etc. So we just have our own 'zones' now, and things get done. Like our wedding - I took care of all the 'emotional' stuff like writing the ceremony, picking readings, organising the license, and she took charge of the budget etc. I get splitting everything equally but likewise you have to play to your strengths and know your weaknesses.

I will say though, some of the ways people talk about their other halves (and honestly it's usually people in straight relationships) makes me wonder why on earth they're together. There's a difference between the usual annoyances and lazinesses that people have, and someone who literally won't do anything until they're asked. It's so weird to me.

pwurple

You sound like me, 10 years ago. We had children, and the stress of managing all of us, while holding down a very demanding job , while parents were also ill nearly broke me.

Then, I took a promotion at work and he became the stay at home dad. I literally had to drop everything I was doing before in our family lives because I had that learning curve at work, and the family income relying on me being successful. So, he took on everything to do with the kids and the home. Over those few months, until my job settled down again, he picked it all up, and then I took back on bits and pieces. but it took me dropping the reins to happen.

It is easier to just let someone else do it, than communicate about who is doing what and keep coordinating. It's creating a functioning team.
I fall into it so easily when I see it from the other side, just letting him do it, because he has it under control now.


To attempt to make it more equal, we did eventually just relent on being cool and young. We dropped breezy and casual, and instead got very boring and structured. We discussed and divided up who was responsible for what in this complicated modern world. We have a shared calendar, and some excruciatingly humdrum, yet necessary, lists of things we need to remember to do. Like cleaning out gutters and drains, renewing insurance, climbing Mount Ironing, etc.


It's mostly working. Plenty of moments wondering why your spouse is always standing in front of the one drawer you want to get at in the kitchen... but that's life, right?

rainbow kirby

From another perspective: I'm a recently single parent. I had the overwhelming majority of the mental load in my marriage and it honestly felt like being a lone parent of three rather than a married parent of two at times. There is a lot of work now, but mentally it is easier knowing that it is all on me versus waiting for someone else to pick it up when they don't do it at all.

Cutie 3.14

I have always found this to be the case in most of my romantic relationships. While I'm sure I'm partially to blame for just letting things slide and putting up with it, it is very frustrating!
Luggage packer, actually add hotel booker and activity planner to that...form filler, post office goer..and the list goes on..

I want you to be my partner, 50/50. I dont want to be your Mammy!!

I recently came across Florence Given on Instagram, she talks a lot about this stuff and funky as hell. Worth a quick gander at least!

Neyite

I'm the planner in our family.
Holidays, I'm the one who researches them, trawls for the best price, packs for me and our child, including the family toiletries, medications, beach toys. I'm the one who ensures the child has swim stuff that fits him etc.
Our wedding planning, I'm the one who has done literally every single bit - the upside of that though is that he genuinely does not care what arrangements I make or what money I spend on it.
But that's all I could tolerate though. If he didn't pull his weight around the house, or if I had to nag him into doing every little thing, it wouldn't work.
There's a book called Wifework by Susan Maushart that is quite good though it's been a long time since I read it.

jrosen

I was a single parent when I met my now husband so the mental load was all on me all of the time, maybe because of that I was so sure I wanted a more equal balance?

There are areas I do more in like house work/kids appointments etc but then he would do more regarding pensions/financial side plus he works full time and im part time

I see women alot talk about carrying the mental load but i do wonder if we bring alot of that worry on ourselves.

I dont think the breakdown of who does what matters as much as both people feeling like they carry a fare share and are supported by the other person

Airyfairy12

Dont do it and when its not done and he quetions why its not done, tell him he should have done it. You're not his mother or his secretary and he knows he doesnt have to do any of it because you'll end up doing it.

meeeeh

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Dont do it and when its not done and he quetions why its not done, tell him he should have done it. You're not his mother or his secretary and he knows he doesnt have to do any of it because you'll end up doing it.

In principle that works OK but you have to be on top of certain things. If one passport is not renewed when going on holiday it will affect all. Similar not renewing health insurance (although it's mostly done automatically) can have serious consequences. At some stage you become a unit and sometimes unit functions only if things are done.

I agree though that there are things that just don't need to be done and can be left till the other person decides they need to be done.

Airyfairy12

meeeeh wrote: »

In principle that works OK but you have to be on top of certain things. If one passport is not renewed when going on holiday it will affect all. Similar not renewing health insurance (although it's mostly done automatically) can have serious consequences. At some stage you become a unit and sometimes unit functions only if things are done.

I agree though that there are things that just don't need to be done and can be left till the other person decides they need to be done.

If his passport isnt in date, then he stays home while everyone else goes on holiday. If he doesnt renew his health insurance, then he doesnt have health insurance.. it's his problem.

Id refuse to do anything for him, if he wants to be a man child, he can deal with the consequences.

meeeeh

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

If his passport isnt in date, then he stays home while everyone else goes on holiday. If he doesnt renew his health insurance, then he doesnt have health insurance.. it's his problem.

Id refuse to do anything for him, if he wants to be a man child, he can deal with the consequences.

When kids are involved the person who stays at home enjoys the peace and the person going deals alone with kids. Health insurance is often for all including kids. Also one person getting seriously sick and not having right insurance would affect all in the household. That's the difference between being a unit and being two individuals. It's a lot more muddled.

Airyfairy12

meeeeh wrote: »

When kids are involved the person who stays at home enjoys the peace and the person going deals alone with kids. Health insurance is often for all including kids. Also one person getting seriously sick and not having right insurance would affect all in the household. That's the difference between being a unit and being two individuals. It's a lot more muddled.

I understand that but if he wants to be an individual in the relationship, id let him at it. Its hard enough having to look after actual children without having to take on a man child too.

Loveinapril

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I understand that but if he wants to be an individual in the relationship, id let him at it. Its hard enough having to look after actual children without having to take on a man child too.

Again it's easier said than done. There are financial implications to the sorts of things Meeeeh mentions, like paying for a family holiday if not everyone can go. Or for instance, my husband missing a few monthly car insurance payments therefore needing to pay for the rest of the year in full or losing his policy. There was also a time a few years back where he missed a few phone bill payments so was cut off and had no way of contacting me/ being contacted by me from one end of the day to the next (while we had a newborn). It would also never really occur to him to pay our childminder at the time so I need to look after that or we risk losing childcare. ŹMy brother has had times where his wife (he carries the mental load in their family) sent their kids to school without lunches or has failed to pay for school trips etc. These things are important enough to warrant someone taking charge, even though it is a pain for the carrier.

Airyfairy12

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I understand that but if he wants to be an individual in the relationship, id let him at it. Its hard enough having to look after actual children without having to take on a man child too.

I'd love to know if you've managed to successfully implement these principles.

In theory I'd totally agree, but whenever I step back and try to leave him to himself, it NEVER results in him taking responsibility or realising he needs to step up. Usually I get one of two results:
a) He never ends up being bothered by the thing that's not done, so I'm only annoying myself by not doing it for him.
b) We'll both suffer the negative consequences and he'll recognise it as bad luck, without learning any lesson or changing any of his behaviour in future.

pwurple

true-or-false wrote: »

I'd love to know if you've managed to successfully implement these principles.

In theory I'd totally agree, but whenever I step back and try to leave him to himself, it NEVER results in him taking responsibility or realising he needs to step up. Usually I get one of two results:
a) He never ends up being bothered by the thing that's not done, so I'm only annoying myself by not doing it for him.
b) We'll both suffer the negative consequences and he'll recognise it as bad luck, without learning any lesson or changing any of his behaviour in future.

Honestly, I'd cut them loose if they didn't learn after a while. What use is a partner who drags you down instead of being a support?

At some point you've to take responsibility for accepting the behaviour and in some way enabling it. Most men and women are perfectly capable of being grownups, but plenty coast through life bemoaning their "bad luck" which they have soundly brought upon themselves through forgetting to pay their phone bills etc.

It takes time and reinforcement, of course it does. Being responsible for yourself and others, as an adult isn't easy if you don't know how. That's why our parents put that effort into teaching us to dress ourselves , feed ourselves, use money, drive etc. All the skills you need to survive in an adult world without parents.

When I started being the main breadwinner, and my husband took on the home role, there were a few rough weeks of the kids not getting to school on time, no lunches, empty cupboards, and some bills missed. Everyone wants to be the nice guy, but at some stage some straight talk (aka a serious bollocking) is needed if it keeps getting missed. Otherwise you've a long life of frustration and misery ahead.

Neyite

It's one of those things though that you find out early enough before you've get kids and a mortgage if your partner is happy to let you carry the mental load or not.


Now, there's a difference between being the one who's usually the 'organiser' of the house and and being a total mammy to your partner. I'd be the logistics planner of the family. I like it and I'm good at it. And because he hates that job, most of the time he's fine with the decisions I make.

But the kind of man who can't make his own dental appointment or blames you for not waking him up for work or reminding him to send a mothers day card to his mother, you are better dumping him in the early days long before you get tied down. Being a pseudo Mammy will kill any attraction to him faster than anything.

Airyfairy12

true-or-false wrote: »

I'd love to know if you've managed to successfully implement these principles.

In theory I'd totally agree, but whenever I step back and try to leave him to himself, it NEVER results in him taking responsibility or realising he needs to step up. Usually I get one of two results:
a) He never ends up being bothered by the thing that's not done, so I'm only annoying myself by not doing it for him.
b) We'll both suffer the negative consequences and he'll recognise it as bad luck, without learning any lesson or changing any of his behaviour in future.

Honestly, id just leave the relationship. What is the point?

Gruffalux

Hmmmm. It's a tough one because at different stages of life it feels different. And there are important externals to weigh up.
At the beginning of the affair you are just mad to love the person so nothing is too much and it feels sweet and easy.
And then there is raising a family and the huge effort of that and that is the testiest time when a fuse or two or a million may have to blow to get a message across. I would say that is normal - it is a kind of crazy thing to do, to make and rear new people, what a big responsibility, no manual, just winging it as it steadily gets wilder and weirder until the day they head off themselves.
But then after that there is a more peaceful time because there has been a lot of smoothing of rough edges, acceptance and compromise. Like okay I still do all the organising but I am bored of cooking now, so you do most of it. Like that. Less squabbling over nothing.

I am the organiser. Have largely been the home maker and kept the whole administrative show running. Holidays. Appointments. Education. Bills. All of that stuff. We both earn, him more. He is just not as good as I am at making money last or keeping track of everything, or keeping a home together. But he was always way better than me at being really chilled, having infinite time for and fun with the children, being patient, reining in my inclinations to be sarcastic or dark, lifting heavy stuff, awkward gardening things, and being really funny and charming. Plus he does the social end of things which drives me mad bar for a sacred few, so I could/can have a lot of peace and quiet to do my hobbies.
Overall I have not minded carrying the heavier mental load domestically. It has been more stressful, and sometimes incredibly so, but there is accomplishment in it.
I reckon the big question at any of the stages is are you on balance happier with them than you would be otherwise? If as will happen there are times that no, you are freaking run ragged, then be firm and say exactly what you need. I would just down tools and head off. No crossness, just a general fcuk it, Im done. Even did that recently! And always came back to find big efforts made. But mostly, hopefully, you will be able to say yeah, on balance even with my heftier share of certain loads I am happier with the big lummox that I would be without. So you will accept the hassles. And vice versa of course. It ain't easy living with the oddness of anyone else... even if they are a great organiser!

The was on woman on some discussion program talking about home working and homeschooling, anyway, she wanted to know why the school was only emailing her when he school also had her husband's email and contact details.

Be interesting to know how parents who were both home working and homeschooling divided the work.

Its not about making a list and dividing it exactly, but who dose most of the thinking work of the relationship.

Airyfairy12

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Honestly, id just leave the relationship. What is the point?

Sex?

Honestly the house is one small part of our relationship. We don't have kids or anything, so housework/life admin isn't usually so overwhelming. We've just bought our first house and I've had to do the vast majority of heavy lifting, so my rants here are a pretty biased account of our relationship. The other 99% of the time, there aren't quite so many decisions to be made or issues to be fixed, so while the mental load still sits with me, I'm able to delegate work to him more easily. Outside of all the house stuff, I'd say he actually does a lot more for me emotionally than I do for him.

Airyfairy12

true-or-false wrote: »

Sex?

Honestly the house is one small part of our relationship. We don't have kids or anything, so housework/life admin isn't usually so overwhelming. We've just bought our first house and I've had to do the vast majority of heavy lifting, so my rants here are a pretty biased account of our relationship. The other 99% of the time, there aren't quite so many decisions to be made or issues to be fixed, so while the mental load still sits with me, I'm able to delegate work to him more easily. Outside of all the house stuff, I'd say he actually does a lot more for me emotionally than I do for him.

Are you with him just for sex? I dont understand?

You do what works for you. My opinion still stands, I would rather be single and living in a shack than carry the weight of a man child.
I can understand the emotional connection and if I had to choose id probably prefar emotional support over household duties if im honest, still cant see myself cleaning up after someone, washing their clothes, having to remind them to renew their own passport, it just seems incredibly draining.

meeeeh

Why are people so quick to judge relationships they know very little about?

Every person is so much more than the sum of their household duties, every relationship is full of compromises, disagreements, cooperation and as long as the people in it are happy on the whole (nobody is happy all the time) it's working. There is no point sticking in a relationship that's not working but some perseverance and compromise is needed for a successful relationship.

Airyfairy12

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

Are you with him just for sex? I dont understand?

Sorry - that was a joke!

pwurple

true-or-false wrote: »

Sex?

Honestly the house is one small part of our relationship. We don't have kids or anything, so housework/life admin isn't usually so overwhelming. We've just bought our first house and I've had to do the vast majority of heavy lifting, so my rants here are a pretty biased account of our relationship. The other 99% of the time, there aren't quite so many decisions to be made or issues to be fixed, so while the mental load still sits with me, I'm able to delegate work to him more easily. Outside of all the house stuff, I'd say he actually does a lot more for me emotionally than I do for him.

Ah you can get sex easy peasy, we all can. There's tinder and all sorts these days


No kids. But, the first major responsibility hurdle you describe, he has fallen. I'd keep a eye on it, ya know, don't go committing until you're happy you're not being taken for granted. A lifetime is a loooong time to be minding someone. Small things add up. NCT, car tax, credit cards getting paid off etc. Life admin.