Appoint female mods in AH & CA

nkl12xtw5goz70

The two largest and most active forums on Boards — After Hours and Current Affairs — are moderated almost exclusively by men.

AH has 10 mods, all of whom are male. CA has 11 mods, only one of whom is female — but she has not been active on Boards for 6 months, so for all intents and purposes, there are no female mods currently active in that forum either. In addition, both Cmods of these forums are also male. I don't know that we have any currently active female admins, either?

Meanwhile, a number of female posters have pointed out a misogynistic undercurrent to these forums that they believe mods don't take seriously.

Whether that's the case or not, it doesn't look good for Boards.ie that its two largest forums have a 20:1 ratio of male to female mods.

If a woman has an issue with sexism on one of these forums, she's told to talk to the (male) mods. If that fails, talk to the (male) Cmods. If that fails, talk to the (male) admins. She might be forgiven for feeling like it's the 1950s all over again.

Simple solution: Create a more equitable environment by appointing more female mods.

uck51js9zml2yt

There have been female mods in the past who've stepped down or closed their accounts.

Don't see the problem.

Btw, why are there no male mods in the ladies lounge?

Princess Calla

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

If a woman has an issue with sexism on one of these forums, she's told to talk to the (male) mods. If that fails, talk to the (male) Cmods. If that fails, talk to the (male) admins. She might be forgiven for feeling like it's the 1950s all over again.

Ah now that's very unfair to the mods.

In my experience they all act very quickly (sometimes too quickly and I miss the juicy bits ) but I've never felt there's a sexism element to their mod decisions.

One eyed Jack

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

The two largest and most active forums on Boards — After Hours and Current Affairs — are moderated almost exclusively by men.

...

Simple solution: Create a more equitable environment by appointing more female mods.

This idea of basing appointments to positions of responsibility is predicated upon the agreement that there is an issue in the first place which needs to be addressed, and the convenient solution to address it is simply to make appointments based upon appearances.

I wouldn’t assume that all women or all men would share the same hive mind so appointments can’t simply be based upon sex. There has been no indication in my mind that moderators or admins for that matter are biased one way or another, same as claims that the site as a whole is either left-leaning or right-leaning depending upon a posters own perception.

Reality is somewhat more nuanced, as it is in the case of assuming that more women in positions of authority would mean less misogyny on Boards... over a couple of threads now I’ve seen quite the opposite in effect, and I’m not the least bit surprised by it. I think it’s rather naive to assume people’s opinions delineate neatly along sex based lines.

Skylinehead

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

Simple solution: Create a more equitable environment by appointing more female mods.

Yeah, it's so simple. Where from exactly? It's difficult finding anyone at all, never mind applying specific criteria. We've had some in the past (whoospie, LizT, lucyfer) of course.

Peatys

Skylinehead wrote: »

Yeah, it's so simple. Where from exactly? It's difficult finding anyone at all, never mind applying specific criteria. We've had some in the past (whoospie, LizT, lucyfer) of course.

Sarcasm isn't the answer to feedback. You should be appreciative to people taking time to try and come up with ideas to improve the site.

Skylinehead

Peatys wrote: »

Sarcasm isn't the answer to feedback. You should be appreciative to people taking time to try and come up with ideas to improve the site.

I'm being serious.

Peatys

Skylinehead wrote: »

Absolutely zero sarcasm in my post. I'm being serious.

'Yeah, its so simple?'

Skylinehead

Peatys wrote: »

'Yeah, its so simple?'

Yeah I realised that after I posted

But seriously, my point stands. Have you anything to contribute yourself?

Boards.ie: Niamh

The gender distribution of mods is incidental and not by design. As others have said, there have been female mods of both forums in the past and there will be again. However we're not going to indulge in gender quotas for mod teams and actively look for female mods only to fulfil a ratio/quota.

Mods are selected due to their suitability, availability and willingness to take on the job, that's it and I think those are the only sensible things that should apply.

Leg End Reject

Imagine a woman having to talk to a male mod? The horror!

Gender shouldn't come into it and, to be blunt, if a woman is uncomfortable interacting with a man the internet really isn't the place for her.

I'm a woman and find the misogyny angle is sometimes overblown. Sure, there's negative comments posted about woman, but you'll find them about all other demographics too.

This all seems a tad white knightish.

Raconteuse

Davion Witty Marriage wrote: »

why are there no male mods in the ladies lounge?

Ah now, hardly a fair comparison! Is AH a space for discussing men's issues solely? The Gentlemen's Club is the more apt comparison. And Wibbs used to mod The Ladies' Lounge. Amirani - a guy - mods it now.

But personally I don't care what sex the moderators are, so long as they intervene when people are acting the dick (and I don't mean people posting stuff I disagree with before that tedious, dishonest gem gets trotted out - a discussion forum would be boring if it was just views I agreed with, of course I don't object to differing views). For example the Duffy thread, civil discussion without sneery, passive aggressive jibes would be super.

Dial Hard

Raconteuse wrote: »

Ah now, hardly a fair comparison! Is AH a space for discussing men's issues solely? The Gentlemen's Club is the more apt comparison. And Wibbs used to mod The Ladies' Lounge. Amirani - a guy - mods it now.

tLL is also deader than a morgue these days, unlike CA and AH.

I’m not in favour of gender quotas for mods in any forum but I do think that the teams in CA/AH badly need a bit of balance. It allows for a broader range of perspectives at the very least.

anewme

There are times when there are daily ....Why are women? why do women? Why are Irish women?....usually followed by some bitch about women.

Look at the current thread in CA about consent? It has some concerning views and videos.

Then the thread about Duffy. Comparing American women to dogs.

That said, while its clear these people dont like women, they dont like anyone; these people probably dont like themselves either.

There are some fun threads in AH, most people there are sound.

The thread about the murder in Citywest last week was also shocking - when the mod actioned it, only two posts out of pages remained.

I believe posts like thst should be reported when you see them.

uck51js9zml2yt

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

The gender distribution of mods is incidental and not by design. As others have said, there have been female mods of both forums in the past and there will be again. However we're not going to indulge in gender quotas for mod teams and actively look for female mods only to fulfil a ratio/quota.

Mods are selected due to their suitability, availability and willingness to take on the job, that's it and I think those are the only sensible things that should apply.

Speaking of which Niamh. How are mods appointed?

Are they chosen or do they apply?
What's the criteria.
All my years on boards and I've no idea how it happens.

uck51js9zml2yt

Raconteuse wrote: »

Ah now, hardly a fair comparison! Is AH a space for discussing men's issues solely? The Gentlemen's Club is the more apt comparison. And Wibbs used to mod The Ladies' Lounge. Amirani - a guy - mods it now.

But personally I don't care what sex the moderators are, so long as they intervene when people are acting the dick (and I don't mean people posting stuff I disagree with before that tedious, dishonest gem gets trotted out - a discussion forum would be boring if it was just views I agreed with, of course I don't object to differing views). For example the Duffy thread, civil discussion without sneery, passive aggressive jibes would be super.

It was to the op and sort of retorical. Personally I couldn't care less about the gender of a mod.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Davion Witty Marriage wrote: »

Speaking of which Niamh. How are mods appointed?

Are they chosen or do they apply?
What's the criteria.
All my years on boards and I've no idea how it happens.

They are chosen usually from the regular posters in a forum. So someone who already has an interest in the forum and it's subject and has made good contributions, is able to get along with others even while disagreeing with their opinion for example is a good choice.
Usually Cmods will submit a list to Admins of who they think is suitable for a forum that needs a mod replacement. When approved, the person/people are asked if they would like to take it on or not.

If not, back to square one

Dial Hard

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

They are chosen usually from the regular posters in a forum. So someone who already has an interest in the forum and it's subject and has made good contributions, is able to get along with others even while disagreeing with their opinion for example is a good choice.
Usually Cmods will submit a list to Admins of who they think is suitable for a forum that needs a mod replacement. When approved, the person/people are asked if they would like to take it on or not.

If not, back to square one

Can we ask how many female posters have been asked in the last year or so?

Boards.ie: Niamh

Dial Hard wrote: »

Can we ask how many female posters have been asked in the last year or so?

Do you mean in general or for those specific forums?

EDIT: I had a scan through all of the mods approved and offered modships since March last year up to now.

By my reckoning there were 35 in all, 8 of those were female and the rest were male** so 23% female. That's not to say all of the 35 accepted the offer but those were the offers made.

**I was unsure about 8 of the users and had to scour their posting history to try work it out so it may still not be totally accurate. And to clarify, not the same 8 that were female above, these were 1f, 7m.

Dial Hard

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

Do you mean in general or for those specific forums?

CA/AH specifically. Thanks.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Over the past year from what I can see 2 mods were added to AH (both male) and one to CA (male).

Current Affairs hasn't been around for a full year yet, it was set up in June 2019 and most of the mods there inherited it via AH or are Admins helping out.

Timberrrrrrrr

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

The two largest and most active forums on Boards — After Hours and Current Affairs — are moderated almost exclusively by men.

AH has 10 mods, all of whom are male. CA has 11 mods, only one of whom is female — but she has not been active on Boards for 6 months, so for all intents and purposes, there are no female mods currently active in that forum either. In addition, both Cmods of these forums are also male. I don't know that we have any currently active female admins, either?

Meanwhile, a number of female posters have pointed out a misogynistic undercurrent to these forums that they believe mods don't take seriously.

Whether that's the case or not, it doesn't look good for Boards.ie that its two largest forums have a 20:1 ratio of male to female mods.

If a woman has an issue with sexism on one of these forums, she's told to talk to the (male) mods. If that fails, talk to the (male) Cmods. If that fails, talk to the (male) admins. She might be forgiven for feeling like it's the 1950s all over again.

Simple solution: Create a more equitable environment by appointing more female mods.

You are presuming that all of these meds identify as "male" of course. Not very progressive of you.

Dial Hard

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

Over the past year from what I can see 2 mods were added to AH (both male) and one to CA (male).

Yeah, but how many female posters were even approached/asked?

Boards.ie: Niamh

Dial Hard wrote: »

Yeah, but how many female posters were even approached/asked?

That was the sum total, 3 (who happened to be male) were suggested, approved and asked, the 3 accepted. Contrary to popular belief, finding mods for incredibly busy forums where you are going to get abuse for over and/or under-moderating is very difficult.

In Feb last year (just outside the year mark) 4 mods were proposed for AH, one of those was female, all were approved but I'm not sure if she turned it down or others were offered first.

anewme

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

That was the sum total, 3 (who happened to be male) were suggested, approved and asked, the 3 accepted. Contrary to popular belief, finding mods for incredibly busy forums where you are going to get abuse for over and/or under-moderating is very difficult.

I'd well believe it would be very difficult to find a female mod for CA.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

So someone who already has an interest in the forum and it's subject and has made good contributions, is able to get along with others even while disagreeing with their opinion for example is a good choice.

I would have thought that quite a few female posters would meet those basic criteria.

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief, finding mods for incredibly busy forums where you are going to get abuse for over and/or under-moderating is very difficult.

anewme wrote: »

I'd well believe it would be very difficult to find a female mod for CA.

Eh? How is this any more than a sexist assumption that women are less capable than men of handling abuse or criticism?

anewme

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

Eh? How is this any more than a sexist assumption that women are less capable than men of handling abuse or criticism?

It's nothing about being able handling abuse or criticism. Far from it.

Given the tone of some of the quality of posts/ threads/posters (and I am referencing CA here only) are very challenging (I am being kind here)and I could only speak for myself, you'd just not be arsed giving your wit to it and I'd have sympathy for anyone (man or woman) taking on that particular role.

It's one that requires an awful lot of work.

Ten of Swords

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

In Feb last year (just outside the year mark) 4 mods were proposed for AH, one of those was female, all were approved but I'm not sure if she turned it down or others were offered first.

She was asked, and chose to decline

Boards.ie: Niamh

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

I would have thought that quite a few female posters would meet those basic criteria.

I'm sure they do but there are far more prolific posters who are male in CA than female and they are more likely to come to the attention of the mod team/Cmod team when seeking mods. AH is a bit of a mix but being prolific alone without the other attributes is not always a positive.

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

Eh? How is this any more than a sexist assumption that women are less capable than men of handling abuse or criticism?

No one equated it with a lack of capability.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

I'm sure they do but there are far more prolific posters who are male in CA than female and they are more likely to come to the attention of the mod team/Cmod team when seeking mods. AH is a bit of a mix but being prolific alone without the other attributes is not always a positive.

The CA/AH mod who posted above you has 2,842 posts since he signed up 7 years ago, and with all due respect to him, I'd hardly regard him as a noted contributor to either of these forums. I rarely come across a post from him that is not a mod instruction — and I can say the same thing about some other mods.

No one equated it with a lack of capability.

Then why mention the abuse that mods have to deal with in trying to explain why there are so few female mods?

Sorry, you and others can try to explain this away, or claim it doesn't matter — but a male to female gender ratio of 20:1 in the moderating teams of the site's two largest forums really doesn't present a good image for Boards in the year 2020. I'm not calling for gender quotas, but I believe these forums could both benefit from greater female representation at the moderating table.

anewme

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

I'm not calling for gender quotas, but I believe these forums could both benefit from greater female representation at the moderating table.

I do agree that a balance would be beneficial.

I still think it would be hard enough on the CA one, do many female posters engage with and enjoy that forum?

Niamh, if people are willing - can they put themselves forward as a mod?

uck51js9zml2yt

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

They are chosen usually from the regular posters in a forum. So someone who already has an interest in the forum and it's subject and has made good contributions, is able to get along with others even while disagreeing with their opinion for example is a good choice.
Usually Cmods will submit a list to Admins of who they think is suitable for a forum that needs a mod replacement. When approved, the person/people are asked if they would like to take it on or not.

If not, back to square one

Thanks but it poses another question for me.
The Christianity forum seems to have mods parachuted in who had no previous engagement with the forum and who openly expressed their disbelief of God while long term posters were left wondering whats going on a times.. the only one I can remember on the forum who was a Christian mod was PDN.

Boards.ie: Niamh

anewme wrote: »

I do agree that a balance would be beneficial.

I still think it would be hard enough on the CA one, do many female posters engage with and enjoy that forum?

Niamh, if people are willing - can they put themselves forward as a mod?

It's not recommended no, it's not an application process, we choose who we think would be suitable and then ask if they are willing.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Davion Witty Marriage wrote: »

Thanks but it poses another question for me.
The Christianity forum seems to have mods parachuted in who had no previous engagement with the forum and who openly expressed their disbelief of God while long term posters were left wondering whats going on a times.. the only one I can remember on the forum who was a Christian mod was PDN.

I don't want to start discussing other forums when this thread is for feedback re female mods in CA and AH but if there are no obvious and/or willing candidates from the regular posters of a forum, sometimes we'll look for mods of other forums to help out or come on board.

anewme

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

It's not recommended no, it's not an application process, we choose who we think would be suitable and then ask if they are willing.

That's why I believe finding a CA female mod would be a bit of a chicken and egg scenario.

EmmetSpiceland

anewme wrote: »

It's one that requires an awful lot of work. For me, I'd call CA almost a no go area.

It would be a “nightmare” for anyone, male or female. But, you would have to say that they are doing a “bang up job” in there.

It’s actually the AH crowd who are letting the side down. Not moving threads over into that cesspit is causing far too many of the creatures spitting their “venom” all over the place.

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

The CA/AH mod who posted above you has 2,842 posts since he signed up 7 years ago, and with all due respect to him, I'd hardly regard him as a noted contributor to either of these forums. I rarely come across a post from him that is not a mod instruction — and I can say the same thing about some other mods.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. I, personally, think mods should be afforded the anonymity of a “mod account” that they use when they are “on the clock”.

Some threads can get incredibly painful when you get the forum mods trying desperately, and failing miserably, to be funny. Would be great if they just “popped up” when their services are required.

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

Then why mention the abuse that mods have to deal with in trying to explain why there are so few female mods?

Sorry, you and others can try to explain this away, or claim it doesn't matter — but a male to female gender ratio of 20:1 in the moderating teams of the site's two largest forums really doesn't present a good image for Boards in the year 2020. I'm not calling for gender quotas, but I believe these forums could both benefit from greater female representation at the moderating table.

You’ll have to forgive me if I have some reservations around this little “crusade” of yours, Prof. Would you, of all people, not be “threatened” by more female moderators?

Would they not target the more “rambunctious” young male posters and single them out for infractions all while leaving the young female posters focus diligently on their dainty little postings?

Here you are, calling for “change”, when in previous posts, in other forums, you seem to be all about preserving the old ways from being abused. It strikes me that this is at odds with these other opinions you hold so, you can see why someone, such as myself, might be a little sceptical of your “motives”.

Beasty

TBH I would not "inflict" CA on anyone. It's still in it's early days, but I would question who in their right mind (Male or female) would want to do it? (and I knows that questions my own "mind")

I've been a mod since it was created, but it requires a complete detachment from some of the topics to retain any sanity

Tasfasdf

So there is no female mods because they cant handle the "abuse" mods get if any, get real. It's pure sexism and Male privilege to keep only Male mods

nkl12xtw5goz70

Beasty wrote: »

TBH I would not "inflict" CA on anyone. It's still in it's early days, but I would question who in their right mind (Male or female) would want to do it?

I honestly don't understand why people have such an issue with Current Affairs. I'd have no problem with modding that forum, personally.

However, the rhetoric here sounds like saying we're going to spare the poor women the horrors of war but send the men to the front lines. This may not be the intent, but people are coming across as saying that we shouldn't expect female mods of CA because what woman would take the abuse.

Boards.ie: Niamh

No one has said that women cannot mod the forums or that they should be protected over and above male mods, you are making that up and I'd thank you to stop deliberately misinterpreting posts.

I said it can be difficult to find mods (gender not mentioned).

Contrary to popular belief, finding mods for incredibly busy forums where you are going to get abuse for over and/or under-moderating is very difficult.

nkl12xtw5goz70

I'm not "deliberately misinterpreting" anything. You are the one who introduced abuse into a discussion about why there are so few female mods in these forums.

It may well be difficult to find mods of either gender — but that doesn't explain the enormous gender disparity in the mods who are found. When the ratio is 20 male mods to 1 female across these two forums, it's reasonable to ask why there is such a huge disparity, and to suggest that it be addressed.

If women genuinely aren't interested in modding these forums, that's one thing. If they aren't getting the opportunity in the first place, that's another entirely. By your own admission, not a single female poster has been asked to mod AH or CA over the past year, and fewer than 1 in 4 mod appointments across the site as a whole are female.

Hotblack Desiato

Davion Witty Marriage wrote: »

the only one I can remember on the forum who was a Christian mod was PDN.

Fanny Cradock and Benny_cake

Beasty

I was not bringing gender into my prior post

nkl12xtw5goz70

Beasty wrote: »

I was not bringing gender into my prior post

Well, gender is the topic of the thread.

Why, in your view, are there so few female mods in AH and CA — and what, if anything, do you think should be done about it?

Boards.ie: Niamh

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

I'm not "deliberately misinterpreting" anything. You are the one who introduced abuse into a discussion about why there are so few female mods in these forums.

I did and it was in the context of how few mods had been offered a modship in AH & CA over the period of a year. It was not specific to why women are not in those positions but meant as a comment on why only 3 people were offered in the period of a year.

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

It may well be difficult to find mods of either gender — but that doesn't explain the enormous gender disparity in the mods who are found. When the ratio is 20 male mods to 1 female across these two forums, it's reasonable to ask why there is such a huge disparity, and to suggest that it be addressed.

It is 15 male mods to one female mod across those two forums, there is a crossover of 5 mods due to what I have mentioned before - initally some mods moving across to CA when it was separated from AH.
Aside from choosing female users because they are female to fulfil this quota which I think we've agreed is not ideal, what is your suggestion for addressing this disparity?

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

If women genuinely aren't interested in modding these forums, that's one thing. If they aren't getting the opportunity in the first place, that's another entirely. By your own admission, not a single female poster has been asked to mod AH or CA over the past year, and fewer than 1 in 4 mod appointments across the site as a whole are female.

Not a single female poster and only 3 male posters. It's hardly overwhelming. There is no reason why we wouldn't ask a female user who fits the criteria and I'm sure it will occur in the future as it has in the past (in AH). Currently the most prolific posters in CA are all male and that probably reflects a general trend of mostly male users on the forum.

Marcus Hissing Cigarette wrote: »

fewer than 1 in 4 mod appointments across the site as a whole are female.

How do you know the genders of mods across the site? I don't even know that, it's not information that we know or that is recorded anywhere.

nkl12xtw5goz70

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

It is 14 male mods to one female mod across those two forums, there is a crossover of 6 mods due to what I have mentioned before - initally some mods moving across to CA when it was separated from AH.

It's 10 to 0 in AH and 10 to 1 in CA (with the "1" currently inactive). Even if you reduce that to 14 to 1 overall, accounting for duplicates, that's still an abysmal ratio. Note too that both Cmods for these forums are also male, as well as all currently active admins.

Aside from choosing female users because they are female to fulfil this quota which I think we've agreed is not ideal, what is your suggestion for addressing this disparity?

What quota? I've never mentioned a "quota." In the interests of giving feedback, I stated that I believe it's desirable to have better representation of women on the mod teams for these large forums. The specifics of how to accomplish that is up for debate. The first step is to acknowledge that it's an issue that should be addressed — rather than something that should be ignored or rationalized away.

How do you know the genders of mods across the site?

I don't. You yourself stated above that 23 percent of mod appointments over the past year have been female, and that's what I was referring to.

Stheno

As a female mod who nodded the forum formerly known as the politics cafe, I have to say that at least 50% of the time posters assumed I was male

Leg End Reject

Stheno wrote: »

As a female mod who nodded the forum formerly known as the politics cafe, I have to say that at least 50% of the time posters assumed I was male

Were you treated any differently by that 50%, compared to the other half who were aware that you're a woman?

Stheno

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Were you treated any differently by that 50%, compared to the other half who were aware that you're a woman?

Not that I noticed.

Leg End Reject

Stheno wrote: »

Not that I noticed.

And do you think having a woman mod the forum made a difference?

I'm just curious because I don't see the need for both genders to be represented, but others do, so I'm clearly missing something.

Stheno

Leg End Reject wrote: »

And do you think having a woman mod the forum made a difference?

I'm just curious because I don't see the need for both genders to be represented, but others do, so I'm clearly missing something.

No to be honest I never felt it made a difference

Now bear in mind I work on a team of 40 and am one of two women in that team so th as t may skew my perspective