Dublin GAA Discussion Thread: Capital Gains

Tomaldo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759551#Comment_117759551

Yeah, I don't always agree with O'Rourke but at half-time he said Dublin will probably bore us to death playing keep-ball, he was right this time. It reminded me of Southgate's tactics versus Italy, defend, defend, no risks and it backfired both times.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117755929#Comment_117755929

Gavin tried to eliminate all risk from the Dublin gameplan and play the percentages and we finally saw that approach backfire yesterday as Farrell has taken the same approach. Mayo players were taking high risk shots from distance, and Dublin used to do that years ago until they then decided to work it in to safe shooting zones and keep passing it around until someone had a chance. The only way to beat Dublin is intensity and high workrate and very few counties do that and especially not in Leinster.

How Soon Is Now

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759653#Comment_117759653

Ya, I noticed Gavin bring it more into our game and it wasn't always pretty to watch or good on the auld heart but it actually worked and had a purpose the vast majority of the time. It's become a focal point of our play now and it's totally unnecessary with some of the players we have.

One thing I've seen starting to happen and forgot to mention previously was yes the standard on the bench has clearly dropped but are we seriously that fucked that we need to be bringing Philly on for no other reason other than to rough up a few lads on the other team? We used to do that kinda shite back in the days where we were winning nothing and using it to boost the team and get the crowd going sure stick on the likes of Vinne Murphy and see what kinda madness he can cause!

Philly came on and nearly cost us the game against Kerry in the league and look what he did when he came on against Mayo. The guy has been a great player for us over the years but surely he can be used in a better way than that! If we have no one else coming through that Dessie can stick on and make an impact then id be very worried.

Speakerboxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759642#Comment_117759642

Not the same as inter county. Huge step up.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759653#Comment_117759653

It is NOT the same approach. Dessie does not want the players to go safety first side to side more often than not. It is true Jim wanted dublin to go for the percentage shot. But he also wanted a team to have quick interchange and incisive runs when required. I think the players are no longer good enough to either do it or do it consistently for a 70 for various reasons. When I think of how Dessie played as a footballer it must annoy him the way lads now go for the lazy option for ages in spells of games. Again it is not a change of approach just lack of quality of player to implement the same style IMO.

Another poster mentioned how Dublin had to resort to bringing Philly on to cause a row or rile lads up - similar to an aging Vinnie Murphy 20 years ago. It shows how limited Dublin’s options are. I agree 100% on that point. The level of skill in the overall squad is definitely down.

In saying all that Dublin could have snuck the win. But it would have been unfair on Mayo. They definitely are now a better team and overall squad than Dublin’s. plus they will only get better now they have the belief.

030802

Mayo man here.

Commisserations on yer loss, but ye' ve had some run of it. Nothing lasts forever and there's no doubt ye'll come roaring back in 2022.

Anyway, I just wanted to say well done to the dubs in cusack 303. At least a dozen of ye made a point of congratulating me on our win and wished us luck in the final.

Being gracious in defeat is important in sport, and the dubs around me certainly met that challenge. Fair play...

rolling boh

Like lots have said our squad strenght has really fallen off a cliff in a very short time.Huge task for Dessie to get us back as our recent rivals should get better over the next couple of years .He had a near impossible job following Jim but for me he got a break last year and with a general fall off in standards players quitting training fiasco etc he has a lot to do .Because most of us are mainly disappointed with the manner of our exit .

corny

I'm not an apologist for McMahon, far from it, but he's getting an awful lot of stick that's unjustified. He didn't come on and get in the way of the free as the commentary team remarked and he played a passive role in the handbags afterwards. Watch the replay. Darren Coen follows him looking for confrontation and Aidan O'Shea runs 50 yards to say hello. Any impartial person would agree he's not the instigator. The Dublin defenders look lost and as an experienced head McMahon can maybe take control and provide a bit of leadership. The Mayo players knew that and i'd say that's why they targeted him.

FWIW i think McMahon should have been brought on earlier. Not because he's a great defender or an experienced head but because he has football in him. Once Cooper goes off our backs are basically runners with no ability to spot a pass. McMahon has that in his locker and i'd bet we wouldn't have been caught on our goal line if he was on the pitch. He would have gotten his head up and kicked it over the Mayo lads pressing.

billyhead

If may have been complacency that cost Dublin. It looked at stages that there heads dropped and they were disjointed and there was a lack of leadership. This is where the senior players such as Cooper, Mick Fitz, Kilkenny, McCarthy, Fenton and O'Callaghan needed to step up.

LISAMC38

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117755470#Comment_117755470

Hopefully the country's obsession with Dublin will end when the All Ireland is won in September. Its been a fantastic era but the abuse the players have experienced along the way has been sometimes disgraceful. I hope the Mayo player recovers well but I don't remember any outpouring of concern for Paddy Andrews after it happened him "unintentionally" in the Tyrone game in 2019, I remember comments like "should have hit him harder etc". Dublin have had their share of injuries from the likes of Cillian O'Connor, Lee Keegan, etc. and nothing done but when the boot is on the other foot its the main topic of conversation. Nobody talking about the red card AOS should have got for running back on the field and getting involved after he was taken off? Every Dublin fan around me on Saturday evening congratulated the Mayo fans nearby ..... something no Mayo fan has ever had the decency to do for us in my experience.

gourcuff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760552#Comment_117760552

mayo fans have been on the end of dogs abuse leaving croke park from dublin fans.. even after dublin have won easy... so i think you need to remove the rose tinted glasses.. try being a away fan on the hill - its very intimidating and the abuse can be outrageous

personally had lads come up to me walking past the big tree shout " you losers" into my face..

mayo fans might be a bit demented after so much heartache and losses in big games but rarely would other teams fans be afraid to hang around castlebar after a game

LISAMC38

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760624#Comment_117760624

Its not rose tinted glasses 😪 I'm merely pointing out that Dublin have had their fair share of similar injuries/tackles in the past with little sympathy. As for fans, I've had Mayo fans shout in my face when Mayo were leading saying "where's the best Fxx team of all time now" and much worse. Anyhow enjoy the win, time to focus on Kerry or Tyrone now.

robbiezero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117759642#Comment_117759642

Mike Casey of Na Piarsaigh dealt with him comfortably in 2018. I very much doubt that he would have much impact at inter-county level.

youcancallmeal

Would love to know what the half time instructions were, it seems like it was hold onto the ball and disrupt Mayo when they have it. Keep the scoreboard ticking over wasnt in the plan apparently

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760821#Comment_117760821

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760821#Comment_117760821

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760624#Comment_117760624

I find all this talk about abusive fans irrelevent every county has some gobsh!te fans. But the majority of GAA fans are the soundest people you can meet and fans normally mix without any hassle and it all mostly good natured. You see the odd fan looking for trouble shouting OTT abuse at refs and even their own players. But normally someone tells them to cop themselves on.

I did that to a Dublin fan who was shouting dogs abuse F'in and blinding at Eoghan O'Gara (Dublin player) any time he was near the ball. And I called him out on it saying he has won x amounts of AI's and is doing his best. And I asked how does it encourage him?

But most of stuff from GAA fans are all good natured stuff. Something like 'get the hair out of yer eyes ref', to a baldy ref.

I actually think Mayo fans are the best fans in the country they REALLY support their team per population all ages from young to old. Yeah, there is cohort of Mayo fans who are out and out whingers, moaners and can be very bitchy (which is evident on boards and other social media). But I think that is a consequence of the 70 year famine and being in Galway's shadow for many years, never mind other top dogs in Gaelic Football outside of their province.

And it also a consequence of Mayo being an 'out and out' football county it means the world to them. Other sports don't really get a look in Hurling is fairly niche unless you are the likes of Keith Higgins. I don't think Rugby or soccer gets much of a look in Mayo? How big is Basketball in Mayo these days?

So yeah, I understand the passion of Mayo fans and where emanates from. But this codology that xyz county has abusive fans is bollix. There are always a few eejits in every county, but they are few and far between.

corny

I think the culture has slipped more than anything else. In years past Dublin wouldn't have taken a backward step against any team no matter what they brought to the table. We didn't really want to know when Mayo upped the ante this time. We took shortcuts. Players half heartedly attacking man and ball, indulging themselves in fouling, showboating their skills instead of taking the correct option etc.

Gavin will get the credit of course as the obvious point of difference and I've no doubt he deserves a bit of it. For me though, it really highlights the achievements of the lads who first won the All Ireland in 2011. It's no coincidence the culture slipped just as Kev Mc, MDM, Cian O'Sullivan, Paddy Andrews and Cluxton walked away. Mikey Fitzsimons was our best player on Saturday for me. Fitting really.

tritium

Unfortunately I’d say that’s the end of an era for that Dublin team. We might sneak a handy all ireland if it comes up but there’s a decent bit of rebuilding to do. Kind of shows how lucky we were to have those players all at the same time, but no team could have lost the top players Dublin have this year and just motor on. No matter what begrudgers say there really was a golden generation there, and lucky enough to overlap with a few great experienced heads to get them to their potential.

on the up side there’s still a good core there and decent young lads, but a bit of shaping needed. For me the key is to do the work now rather than hanging on and having a long barren spell a la Kerry post their greatest team (although before 2011 if you’d offered me one Sam per decade I’d have been pretty happy so I guess it’s all relative)

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117760956#Comment_117760956

So would I, hopefully one of the Dublin lads will lift the dressing room omerta in a book in a few years to come. I doubt it though as that Dublin dressing room is very close knit. I can't believe Dessie would have told them to play like that. Maybe a mixture I would say. To sit back like that and not try and finish the game off is asking for trouble. They were damn near caught out against Meath doing the same craic and with an 11 point lead not a 6 point one.

Plus the Dublin defence seems unable to track speedy runners running directly at them - especially after Dublin tire in the second half of games. Daniel Flynn got his goal for Kildare the only time he managed it. The Meath lads caused havoc for the Dublin defence in their game because they had more of them. Mayo have even more of those type of players than Meath and they are are of an even higher quality.

If Dessie did tell Dublin to sit back and keep ball/disrupt as you say at half time. If he did, he learnt nothing from previous matches. Surely he is not that blind with all the analysts and all sorts, it should be even more obvious?

When Dessie was u20/21 manager I can't remember his sides playing so conservatively.

Personally, I think it was the players fault, not pushing on or not having the energy to push on and kill the game.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761062#Comment_117761062

Yeah and the fact that it was 10 years since THAT Cluxton kick. And he was nowhere near Croke Park. Plus Hennelly basically 'did a Cluxton' and nailed that pressure kick. It all had a nice symmetry to it. Arguably, there was even more pressure on it for Hennelly as he had to retake it, after a long wait.

rolling boh

It also had the extra pressure of needing to nail it to keep them in it Stevo kind of had a free shot .

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761189#Comment_117761189

You can't believe Dessie told them to play the same way they've played all year?

pgj2015

Is there any hope some sort of action can be taken against paddy small? He should have taken up MMA or boxing instead of GAA. Disgrace to the game.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764509#Comment_117764509

Want to point me to your similarly outraged posts in the Tyrone thread about Niall Morgan breaking Paddy Andrews jaw in the exact same way?

Or in the Donegal thread when Michael Murphy broke Paddy Andrews jaw with his fist?

Cos otherwise, people might think that you're just a bit of a clown with chip, and I'd hate to see that.

Zeugnis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764509#Comment_117764509

Did Paddy Small hit someone?

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764714#Comment_117764714

Sorry I don't have the time to go back over every GAA game in the last 20 years and point of players acting like thugs. I am talking about the game on Saturday. The Dublin players were an awful example to the young kids from Dublin who idolize them. Just because other players did similar over the years means nothing, I wouldn't defend them either. I hate players from any county using football as a way to assault opposition players.

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764752#Comment_117764752

Aside from the shoulder there were two other incidents where he caught a guy with his fist. One went unnoticed and he got a yellow for the other one - arguably all 3 were red card offences. He was lucky to stay on the pitch till the end

StupidLikeAFox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117761062#Comment_117761062

I think you are right, the Dublin players lost their composure - the heads were gone mor3 than anything and they weren't playing with confidence.

I think the demise of Dublin is greatly exaggerated, despite what people say ye still brought it to extra time, ye had the players to win it if one or two things had gone your way. If basquel got that shot in the net it was game over

bucketybuck

I think people are overstating the decline in quality of the Dublin squad.

To me that looked like a team of good players who have played really poorly all year and couldn't flick a switch to change things just because it was a semi-final. As a neutral I have never seen Dublin as flat as that, but it was being flat rather than being a bad team.

I would really be looking at the manager there, that looked for all the world like a group who don't really buy into what he is selling.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764809#Comment_117764809

Do you mean John Small?

corny

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117764758#Comment_117764758

I think you're overstating it a lot as most of the stuff was petulanace but yeah discipline was an issue on Saturday. It's happened before against Mayo.

Dyr's response to you has merit though. Paddy Andrews suffered a remarkably similar injury at the hands of Niall Morgan. No outrage. Dermot Connolly touches a linesman. Outrage and public assassination. Andy Moran (if memory serves) does the same thing a couple of months later - no outrage. Dublin are held to a higher standard and there's always a queue to take a shot. No question.

If Michael Murphy wore a Dublin jersey he'd be serving a prison term by now. As it is, he's not even considered a dirty player by the masses.