Electric Vehicles / Classics

kadman

This sounds , and runs better,

You couldn't pull start an EV beetle:P

kadman

mustang68

https://www.evbmw.com/

This guy does EV conversions in Ireland, as far as I can see he is one of the most knowledgeable out there, check out his videos. (I've no association with him).

If a car is getting on in age and the raison d'etre of the car isn't the engine then an EV conversion would be a fun project.

marcos_94

mustang68 wrote: »

https://www.evbmw.com/

This guy does EV conversions in Ireland, as far as I can see he is one of the most knowledgeable out there, check out his videos. (I've no association with him).

If a car is getting on in age and the raison d'etre of the car isn't the engine then an EV conversion would be a fun project.

I remember following his build thread for the 8 series back on one of the BMW forums. Didnt realise he had done so many conversions nad has a youtube channel

unkel

Ah well seeing my post has involuntarily been promoted to a new thread, we might as well make the most of it

Converting classics to EV is big business in the USA already, mainly California naturally. The guys at EV West are kings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLRAQu0b8-o

Have a crowd like that professionally convert your EV using Tesla motors and batteries is going to cost you a fortune though.

kadman

Even a basic kit for the beetle will set you back 16k+euros.

Then you have to make some modifications for the kit into the car
maybe.

Then find someone savvy enough with ev to fit it. Lots of money for a vehicle that
gets occasional use.

unkel

All true kadman, but that's the one end of the conversion spectrum. High price parts and high price labour. The other end is DIY which is far from impossible. Damien Maguire (Irish) bought a knackered 3-series diesel and converted it to EV and got it through the NCT for a grand all in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkg8Rk-aP4U

Let's hope it won't happen, but should the M96 engine in my Porsche die because of the IMS bearing issue, I will most likely explore ways to electrify it.

marcos_94

unkel wrote: »

All true kadman, but that's the one end of the conversion spectrum. High price parts and high price labour. The other end is DIY which is far from impossible. Damien Maguire (Irish) bought a knackered 3-series diesel and converted it to EV and got it through the NCT for a grand all in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkg8Rk-aP4U

Let's hope it won't happen, but should the M96 engine in my Porsche die because of the IMS bearing issue, I will most likely explore ways to electrify it.

Does this lad Damien build these cars himself and them sell them on, or do people come to him looking for a conversion?

kadman

But Damien has years of ev knowledge of electrics, that most dont have.

Fair play to him its a great project, and the mechanical elements are handy enough.

But amps,controllers,pcb's..............jaysus me head already hurts, its like reverse engineering

a ufo.:eek:

unkel

marcos_94 wrote: »

Does this lad Damien build these cars himself and them sell them on, or do people come to him looking for a conversion?

He builds them himself. Not sure if he sells them on. Was going to ask him that question myself until I realised you actually have to pay him to send him an email (and expect an answer), that put me off.

Seweryn

Well, imagine having to do the opposite conversion. If the electrical vehicles that dominated our roads 100 years ago survived and continued its development and today you had to convert an EV to an internal combustion engine car, that would be a bigger deal.

marcos_94

unkel wrote: »

He builds them himself. Not sure if he sells them on. Was going to ask him that question myself until I realised you actually have to pay him to send him an email (and expect an answer), that put me off.

Pay to email him? Sweet jesus. I personally would love to take some BMW e30 316/318 touring and convert it to electric for daily city driving, and keep the interesting stuff for the more interesting drives

Seweryn

marcos_94 wrote: »

Pay to email him? Sweet jesus. I personally would love to take some BMW e30 316/318 touring and convert it to electric for daily city driving, and keep the interesting stuff for the more interesting drives

If you really want an E30, don't ignore the 320i version. It is a better base for the conversion with similar price tag.

marcos_94

Seweryn wrote: »

If you really want an E30, don't ignore the 320i version. It is a better base for the conversion with similar price tag.

Have an e30 318is luckily but wont be converting it as its far too nice! Wouldnt rule out a 320i touring but they rarely seem to come about, although tourings in general dont seem to come up at all anymore

Kenny Logins

unkel wrote: »

He builds them himself. Not sure if he sells them on. Was going to ask him that question myself until I realised you actually have to pay him to send him an email (and expect an answer), that put me off.

I guess it works then. :pac:

Kenny Logins

unkel wrote: »

All true kadman, but that's the one end of the conversion spectrum. High price parts and high price labour. The other end is DIY which is far from impossible. Damien Maguire (Irish) bought a knackered 3-series diesel and converted it to EV and got it through the NCT for a grand all in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkg8Rk-aP4U

Let's hope it won't happen, but should the M96 engine in my Porsche die because of the IMS bearing issue, I will most likely explore ways to electrify it.

Just watching these now, very interesting.

Handy tip: :P

w124man

unkel wrote: »

Anyone looking at your post 10-20 years from now will wonder what kind of dinosaur posted that

Fortunately for you, opinions cannot be wrong! Worthless but not wrong!

Lovers of EV's are so similar to those in the UK that voted to leave the EU. They were fed so much bull54it that they cant see the wood for the trees!

marcos_94

w124man wrote: »

Fortunately for you, opinions cannot be wrong! Worthless but not wrong!

Lovers of EV's are so similar to those in the UK that voted to leave the EU. They were fed so much bull54it that they cant see the wood for the trees!

What bull is that?

w124man

marcos_94 wrote: »

What bull is that?

Emission free, good for the planet, range, recyclable batteries ........

marcos_94

w124man wrote: »

Emission free, good for the planet, range, recyclable batteries ........

I agree that some people believe they do no harm but in a life cycle analysis, they emit less than a petrol or diesel car. They are for sure better for the planet than petrol and diesel cars, and it must be noted that their life emissions can improve as the electricity share from the grid decarbonises.
https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/electric-cars-emit-less-co2-over-their-lifetime-diesels-even-when-powered-dirtiest-electricity

Not sure what your issue with range is? If you believe ranges are exaggerated, is that no different to the lying going on in the car industry as a whole anyways with emissions testing and fuel efficiency testing?

With regards to battery recycling, is there not a growing industry for reuse at the moment, with people like Damien buying batteries for retrofit into other vehicles? Or how about Nissan taking “used” batteries and using them as grid storage?
https://m.futurecar.com/3759/Relectrify-Using-Old-EV-Batteries-to-Power-the-Grid

unkel

marcos_94 wrote: »

I agree that some people believe they do no harm but in a life cycle analysis, they emit less than a petrol or diesel car. They are for sure better for the planet than petrol and diesel cars, and it must be noted that their life emissions can improve as the electricity share from the grid decarbonises.

And this is already further improved than some people think. Nearly all EVs in this country are charged at night at the cheap night rate. 50% of all electricity produced in Ireland last year during this time is from wind. So renewable and zero emissions. This year it will be substantially more again.

Personally I try and charge my car from my large solar PV install too when I can

Isambard

unkel wrote: »

And this is already further improved than some people think. Nearly all EVs in this country are charged at night at the cheap night rate. 50% of all electricity produced in Ireland last year during this time is from wind. So renewable and zero emissions. This year it will be substantially more again.

Personally I try and charge my car from my large solar PV install too when I can

um no, the turbines production has a carbon footprint, as does their transport.

marcos_94

Isambard wrote: »

um no, the turbines production has a carbon footprint, as does their transport.

It takes under a year for an operational wind fame to have displaced the same amount of co2 as was created during manufacturing, transport, and installation.

https://www.saskwind.ca/blogbackend

Seweryn

Isambard wrote: »

um no, the turbines production has a carbon footprint, as does their transport.

Not just that, but their EROI is very low, often below economical threshold. That's why the energy generated by them is so expensive.



Also, there is a huge problem with recycling of the turbines at the end of their lifespan, especially the blades, which are non recyclable and are hazardous waste. And what about the tons of concrete underground?

marcos_94

Seweryn wrote: »

Not just that, but their EROI is very low, often below economical threshold. That's why the energy generated by them is so expensive.



Also, there is a huge problem with recycling of the turbines at the end of their lifespan, especially the blades, which are non recyclable and are hazardous waste. And what about the tons of concrete underground?

Expensive? Where are you getting that from? Did you look at the link I sent previously with Lazard’s analysis. Wind and solar are cheaper than coal, oil, and gas, there is no debate there.
https://www.lazard.com/perspective/lcoe2019

With regards to the environmental aspect, the blade recycling information that’s been around recently was focussed on the US and does not reflect what is happening in Europe. Please expand on how the blades are “hazardous waste”?
https://www-irishtimes-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/wind-energy-and-the-environment-1.4175382?mode=amp

I’m still unsure what you’re trying to prove hear, what do you suggest should be the technology we use to generate power to meet our electrical needs?

Seweryn

marcos_94 wrote: »

Expensive? Where are you getting that from? Did you look at the link I sent previously with Lazard’s analysis. Wind and solar are cheaper than coal, oil, and gas, there is no debate there.

Where am I getting this from? Just look at the electricity cost per kWh between countries. The ones with the largest proportion of wind power generation have most expensive electricity, i.e. in Denmark, Germany, etc. Ireland is catching up with them.
There is no point looking at data they are selling in the publications, just check the numbers.

marcos_94 wrote: »

With regards to the environmental aspect, the blade recycling information that’s been around recently was focussed on the US and does not reflect what is happening in Europe. Please expand on how the blades are “hazardous waste”?

The blades are made from fiberglass with a service lifetime of 10 to 20 years. If a blade shatters during operation, the soil gets polluted (surely, we know what happens when radioactive waste escapes....).
Burning the blades is extremely difficult, toxic and energy intensive. So there’s a huge incentive for German wind mill operators to dump the old contraptions onto third world countries, but they never tell you this.

The disposal of the massive reinforced concrete turbine base must be removed (in Germany anyway, according to their regulations). In the end most of the concrete base will remain as garbage buried in the ground, and the above-ground turbine litter may likely get shipped to third world countries. Fortunately, the metal parts are recyclable.

marcos_94 wrote: »

I’m still unsure what you’re trying to prove hear, what do you suggest should be the technology we use to generate power to meet our electrical needs?

Well, the wind or solar power is definitely not the answer to our needs, is it? They are fully dependent on fossil fuels at every step of the way. We can replace some of our power stations with wind turbines, but they will need a reliable back up when the wind doesn't blow or sun doesn't shine.

Then there is the financial aspect. Wind turbines don’t run on wind, they run on subsidies. Cut the subsidies and these things will never be replaced once reaching their life span.

marcos_94

Seweryn wrote: »

Where am I getting this from? Just look at the electricity cost per kWh between countries. The ones with the largest proportion of wind power generation have most expensive electricity, i.e. in Denmark, Germany, etc. Ireland is catching up with them.
There is no point looking at data they are selling in the publications, just check the numbers.

Take a look at the auction prices from wind, what they’re contracted to get paid and then you see the cost of energy. Any cost to the consumer is as a result of the energy system operator. Offshore wind reached a strike price below £40/kWh last cfd round vs Hinckley point c which is wel in excess of £100/kWh.

The blades are made from fiberglass with a service lifetime of 10 to 20 years. If a blade shatters during operation, the soil gets polluted (surely, we know what happens when radioactive waste escapes....).
Burning the blades is extremely difficult, toxic and energy intensive. So there’s a huge incentive for German wind mill operators to dump the old contraptions onto third world countries, but they never tell you this.

The disposal of the massive reinforced concrete turbine base must be removed (in Germany anyway, according to their regulations). In the end most of the concrete base will remain as garbage buried in the ground, and the above-ground turbine litter may likely get shipped to third world countries. Fortunately, the metal parts are recyclable.

In Ireland, and most other markets, the foundations are left in place after decommissioning as a result of the environmental impact of removing and disposing if them.

Well, the wind or solar power is definitely not the answer to our needs, is it? They are fully dependent on fossil fuels at every step of the way. We can replace some of our power stations with wind turbines, but they will need a reliable back up when the wind doesn't blow or sun doesn't shine.

Then there is the financial aspect. Wind turbines don’t run on wind, they run on subsidies. Cut the subsidies and these things will never be replaced once reaching their life span.

Google subsidy free wind and solar, it already exists and is becoming more common place. Subsidies were used to advance adoption of a technology that is better for the environment than the incumbent. Solar and storage combined projects are competing and winning at competitive auction. Battery storage is decreasing in price at a rate of 18% per annum, with new storage technologies being developed and demonstrated (check out Highview Power in the UK and their Liqued Air Energy Storage).
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/20/new-windfarms-taxpayers-subsidies-record-low

unkel

Maybe we should all try to concentrate on keeping this to classic EVs?

kadman

I saw a recent news report about a tesla ev going on fire in Germany,
and they had to have a tesla team flown in to put out the fire of the batteries.
Kept burning for days apparently

unkel

From US statistics an EV is far less likely to go up in fire than an internal combustion engine car. But obviously it is big news when one does go on fire. There's about 5-10 times as much energy in a petrol tank than there is in a battery pack, so your guess which will burn more

and which will have more range...