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Electric Vehicles / Classics

  • 23-02-2020 10:32pm
    #1
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,854 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    w124man wrote: »
    Both are effectively new cars, both easily capable of twenty years motoring. I suppose if you're used to Fiat 127's and rusty Sierras well then you wont get just how good these cars actually are.

    That's a strange argument. If you want a car (as good as) new that's good for 20 years motoring, it's far cheaper total cost of ownership to buy a new EV than that old (new) taxi.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,156 ✭✭✭ w124man


    unkel wrote: »
    That's a strange argument. If you want a car (as good as) new that's good for 20 years motoring, it's far cheaper total cost of ownership to buy a new EV than that old (new) taxi.

    That's an even stranger argument. EV's are just a carbon footprint heavy, politically driven, unsustainable fad that will U turn just like the diesel one did!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,078 ✭✭✭✭ elperello


    I think I just clicked into a parallel universe.
    EVs in Classic Cars ? :)


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,854 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    w124man wrote: »
    EV's are just a unsustainable fad

    Anyone looking at your post 10-20 years from now will wonder what kind of dinosaur posted that ;)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,526 ✭✭✭✭ galwaytt


    unkel wrote: »
    Anyone looking at your post 10-20 years from now will wonder what kind of dinosaur posted that ;)

    kinda. EV will still be there but...it'll be interesting to see if any current EV's ever live to be 20 yrs old in the first place. .....

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,358 ✭✭✭ kev1.3s


    galwaytt wrote: »
    kinda. EV will still be there but...it'll be interesting to see if any current EV's ever live to be 20 yrs old in the first place. .....

    They will. They will build up a cottage industry that converts them to petrol.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭ Seweryn


    w124man wrote: »
    That's an even stranger argument. EV's are just a carbon footprint heavy, politically driven, unsustainable fad that will U turn just like the diesel one did!
    They did their U turn 100 years ago, but people believe this is a new technology. It didn't work then, it was replaced with internal combustion engine, because of the inconvenience of battery power, energy storage and that sort of things.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,743 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman


    Seweryn wrote: »
    They did their U turn 100 years ago, but people believe this is a new technology. It didn't work then, it was replaced with internal combustion engine, because of the inconvenience of battery power, energy storage and that sort of things.

    Plus the fact its doubtful , according to some experts , that they have sufficient resources to maintain ev's on a global scale as required.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭ Seweryn


    kadman wrote: »
    Plus the fact its doubtful , according to some experts , that they have sufficient resources to maintain ev's on a global scale as required.
    Not a hope. It is a cul de sac lane and not a very long one. With all known resources we can only replace a fraction of vehicles with EVs. Never mind maintaining them after...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,406 ✭✭✭ 54and56


    Seweryn wrote: »
    Not a hope. It is a cul de sac lane and not a very long one. With all known resources we can only replace a fraction of vehicles with EVs. Never mind maintaining them after...

    What does that mean?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,535 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Dades


    Given battery tech isn't going to remain static it's impossible to say definitively that we'll run out of resources to make them. Just maybe in their current form (no pun intended).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,059 ✭✭✭ Kenny Logins


    54and56 wrote: »
    What does that mean?

    Lithium.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,854 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    What did I start? :eek: I shouldn't have mentioned the E word :o
    Lithium.

    Lithium is one of the most common elements on earth, in the top 20 or so ;)

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭ Seweryn


    unkel wrote: »
    What did I start? :eek: I shouldn't have mentioned the E word :o

    Lithium is one of the most common elements on earth, in the top 20 or so ;)
    Yes, but still not enough to make batteries for all vehicles. Even if there was, there are not enough fossil fuels or other sources of energy to power the grid to charge the batteries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,059 ✭✭✭ Kenny Logins


    unkel wrote: »



    Lithium is one of the most common elements on earth, in the top 20 or so ;)

    Maybe so, but is there enough? ;)

    ...and when will we be told to shift focus from EV to CNG?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭ Seweryn


    Maybe so, but is there enough? ;)

    ...and when will we be told to shift focus from EV to CNG?
    Or... petrol :o.


    Actually... CNG as fuel is probably the most "eco-friendly" option all things considered :).


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,743 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman


    Might be lots of Lithium, but not so with rare earth metals,
    and EV's need them. And China has 95% of the world supply, which they intend to keep,
    https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/availability_of_lithium

    Rather than worrying about a lack of lithium, there could be shortages of rare earth materials, should the EV replace the conventional car. One such material is the permanent magnet for the electric motors. Permanent magnets make one of the most energy-efficient motors. China controls about 95 percent of the global market for rare earth metals and expects to use most of these resources for its own production. Export of rare earth materials is tightly controlled.


  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭ marcos_94


    Seweryn wrote: »
    Yes, but still not enough to make batteries for all vehicles. Even if there was, there are not enough fossil fuels or other sources of energy to power the grid to charge the batteries.

    Cheap renewable generation is available. It’s now cheaper to build new wind and solar generation than to continue operating col and gas plants:
    https://www.lazard.com/media/451086/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-130-vf.pdf

    Also, an electric car consumes about 25% of the gross energy required for an average ICE vehicle.

    I’m a car guy, and have no intention of buying an EV anytime soon, but the amount of misinformation on EVs is ridiculous


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭ Seweryn


    marcos_94 wrote: »
    Cheap renewable generation is available. It’s now cheaper to build new wind and solar generation than to continue operating col and gas plants:
    Cheaper, is it? So why one of the most advanced nation on Earth (Japan) is now building 20 new coal fired power plants? Why they are not building so called renewable, cheaper power plants?
    And why as we speak there are 1,500 new coal power stations are constructed around the world? And why Germany don't build more wind turbines but instead they have knocked down an old church to open a mine for coal that they found underneath the church...?

    I agree, there is a lot of misinformation in the media these days.


  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭ marcos_94


    Seweryn wrote: »
    Cheaper, is it? So why one of the most advanced nation on Earth (Japan) is now building 20 new coal fired power plants? Why they are not building so called renewable, cheaper power plants?

    Oh, I must be missing something so, decreasing share of fossil fuel in energy mix from 65% to 56% by 2030 and increasing share of renewable energy to 22%-24%. This doesnt take into account the offshore wind industry in Japan.

    https://www.eu-japan.eu/news/japans-new-basic-energy-plan-until-2030-approved
    And why as we speak there are 1,500 new coal power stations are constructed around the world? And why Germany don't build more wind turbines but instead they have knocked down an old church to open a mine for coal that they found underneath the church...?

    Good to see you brought up Germany, a country whos EnergieWende plan has stumbled the last couple of years but has not slowed down the integration of renewable energy. It was Germany that started off the subsidising of rooftop solar and brought the costs down for others to begin adopting the technology.

    They have a strange plan on retiring their Nuclear fleet before their coal fleet, but regardless, both will be gone by mid 2030s supposedly. This wont stop their adoption of wind energy though. germany has set out in its National Energy and Climate plan that it will increase its onshore wind capacity by 20%, and increase its offshore wind capacity by just shy of 400%.

    https://windeurope.org/2030plans/

    Apologies for going off the topic of classic cars for sale in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭ 26000 Elephants


    elperello wrote: »
    I think I just clicked into a parallel universe.
    EVs in Classic Cars ? :)

    It's a growing sector: retrofitting present day EV technology in old classics - especially old city cars.

    Purists will probably clutch their pearls in horror, but if it keeps an old car relevant and useful, I say go for it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,078 ✭✭✭✭ elperello


    It's a growing sector: retrofitting present day EV technology in old classics - especially old city cars.

    Purists will probably clutch their pearls in horror, but if it keeps an old car relevant and useful, I say go for it.

    Forgot about them

    Definite exception for this one :)

    https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/motors/2018/0905/991852-class-jaguar-e-type-to-go-electric/


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,743 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman


    Classic beetle EV kit costs over 16,000 euros.
    I think I will stick with the old ICE for the moment


  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭ marcos_94


    kadman wrote: »
    Classic beetle EV kit costs over 16,000 euros.
    I think I will stick with the old ICE for the moment

    Where did you see that? Havent seen kits that cheap yet!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭ Seweryn


    marcos_94 wrote: »
    Where did you see that? Havent seen kits that cheap yet!
    Here is an example for the Volkswagen. I believe that price is a subject to duties, VAT, etc.
    Then you need a solid car as a base obviously :) and... labour to screw it all together.

    https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=168&osCsid=sl2cthcdsghsmcoohp3edpnqc7


  • Registered Users Posts: 345 ✭✭ marcos_94


    Seweryn wrote: »
    Here is an example for the Volkswagen. I believe that price is a subject to duties, VAT, etc.
    Then you need a solid car as a base obviously :) and... labour to screw it all together.

    https://www.evwest.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=40&products_id=168&osCsid=sl2cthcdsghsmcoohp3edpnqc7

    Thats not a bad kit. 26.5kWh isnt a massive battery but for a (light) classic car it should deliver 150km of summer driving range. I wonder if that kit is adaptable for other makes


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭ Seweryn


    marcos_94 wrote: »
    Thats not a bad kit. 26.5kWh isnt a massive battery but for a (light) classic car it should deliver 150km of summer driving range. I wonder if that kit is adaptable for other makes
    Well, for sure it is, but the kit includes the adapter plate for the transmission, so you would have to custom make one for your car. Secondly, that company makes them for a few other cars. For other cars I would probably go and buy all bits separately.
    This is not a cheap solution and you will never get your money back, but can be a good fun.
    There is a few companies in Europe that do conversions, but they are more popular in the US.

    On the other hand, you can convert a car to EV at a very low budget as well. The only high cost items are the batteries.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,743 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman


    All of the joy in a beetle classic.....is the sound of the engine. Why would i swap that for ..........
    silence.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,472 ✭✭✭ Seweryn


    kadman wrote: »
    All of the joy in a beetle classic.....is the sound of the engine. Why would i swap that for ..........
    silence.:D
    Well, there you go...




  • Registered Users Posts: 10,078 ✭✭✭✭ elperello


    If (I know it's a big if) the Government succeeds in getting rid of all new ICE cars won't the classics with an ICE be much more desirable.

    The only legitimate way for enthusiasts to enjoy that engine sound be it VW or 6 cylinder BMW will be to buy a classic.

    Assuming of course that the powers that will be don't put all the classics in museums.


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 4,743 Mod ✭✭✭✭ kadman


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