Now ye're talking - to a driving instructor

Boards.ie: Niamh

Our next guest is a driving instructor and I'm sure he has lots of stories of near misses and good and bad students. What he has to say:

I have been an approved driving instructor for 10 years having passed my final test in January 2010. I have always worked as an independent instructor during that time.

Let's have your questions!

Lockheed

What are your thoughts on instructors that work for actual companies e.g Aviva? Is there less incentive for them to want their learners to succeed? I had a bad experience with one who stopped replying to me after i failed and who told me to book my test when I was in no way ready to book it (in hindsight)

nf2k

Thanks for doing this! Interesting to hear about this from the other side.

Are students who have done some prep with their parents or someone else beforehand easier or more difficult to teach? I could imagine they would pick up bad habits that might be difficult to get over?

Have you ever had a student who just could not get it?

The chan chan man

Are men better drivers than women?

GBX

What's the craziest thing you've seen a learner do or try do during a lesson ?

Kiith

What's the most common stupid thing you see non-learner/novice drivers doing?

As a new driver, it seems like some of the most basic things i was taught recently seem to have been forgotten by a large percentage of drivers.

FGR

Thanks for coming onto boards!

Do you think the revision of rules as regards use of roundabouts i.e. the old rules of left lane for first and second exits and right lane for third and subsequent exits vs treating roundabout like a clock left lane before twelve right lane after twelve; has caused confusion amongst motorists?

I think the old rules make more sense and avoid errors being made in interpreting an exit and its location.

Gloomtastic!

What did becoming a Driving Instructor (DI) entail? The opening post mentions Final Test. How many tests were there?

Before you became a DI, what did you want to do for a living?

How long do you hope to last? Is there DI burn-out?

Do you meet other DIs? What's the main topic of conversation?

How much does it cost to convert your car ie add the extra brake?

When's the last time you had to use it, otherwise you (or your pupil) would have had an accident?

Would you teach your kids to drive?

How much has your insurance gone up in the last five years?

(and here was me thinking initially I didn't have any questions to ask!:rolleyes:)

Ubbquittious

Did a learner ever land themselves (and you) in a situation that was difficult to get out of?

Do you get to know the testers after a while?

Anyone do damage to your car?

How much do you pay for insurance?

My first time driving, getting a lesson, I was in a marked driving instructor's car. We reached a fairly quiet T junction, and I cut out when attempting to move off. Got the car going again, and moved off. Took a total of about 8 seconds I'd say.

A car arrived behind me, and gave me a lovely big beep to get me moving. I have to be honest, at the time, I actually didn't even realise i had been beeped (my instructor said it to me afterwards, not to worry about it, and I hadn't a notion what he was talking about). I must have been so zoned in on what I was doing that I didn't notice.

To this day, many, many years later, I still get annoyed about it (the beeping itself, not that I didnt realise I was beeped).

Is this common, do you find?

Personally I always give marked Learner vehicles (cars, trucks, buses, whatever) looooads of space and do what I can to make life easier for them, incase they're in a test. It really irks me when I see people be impatient with L drivers, especially in marked cars.


Secondly, obligatory question everyone wants to ask - Have you ever heard of anyone try and sexualise things to get a pass in their driving test, that they wouldn't have otherwise gotten (perhaps I'm on the internet too much!)

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Lockheed wrote: »

What are your thoughts on instructors that work for actual companies e.g Aviva? Is there less incentive for them to want their learners to succeed? I had a bad experience with one who stopped replying to me after i failed and who told me to book my test when I was in no way ready to book it (in hindsight)

Hi, thanks for your question.
TBH, I can't see why there would be more of an "incentive" simply because they work for a larger company over a totally independent instructor. You actually tend to find that most instructors who are tied in with the bigger firms aren't actual employees in the true sense of the word, most are sole traders who pay a franchise fee to the company and use their logos etc.

I tend to be quite frank with my pupils and if I feel they aren't ready for the test I'll be straight with them. Going into the test ill-prepared can be a very lonely experience (which you might appreciate) and can actually have a detrimental effect on your confidence going forward. Fail to prepare....prepare to fail and all that.

As an ADI, I don't like to hear of bad experiences as it can cast a bad light on us all. I hope you passed in the end!

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

nf2k wrote: »

Thanks for doing this! Interesting to hear about this from the other side.

Are students who have done some prep with their parents or someone else beforehand easier or more difficult to teach? I could imagine they would pick up bad habits that might be difficult to get over?

Have you ever had a student who just could not get it?

Thanks for your question!
Sometimes it's nice to get a blank canvas to work with. A bit of an idea can help too but you might have to undo a couple of little things to get them starting off the way you'd like them. TBH, it doesn't really bother me either way. Even if they have come to you with habits once things are explained and/or demonstrated to them they normally come round in the space of a couple of hours.

I haven't encountered someone who "just couldn't get it"
I think everyone is capable of learning to drive but it might just take a person a lot longer than someone else. Like anything, people can be naturals at certain things whilst others need to work harder. I suppose it then comes down to how badly someone wants to learn. I've seen some pretty determined people over the last decade. The ones which found it hard are often the most satisfying passes.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

The chan chan man wrote: »

Are men better drivers than women?

Thanks for your question
Are you trying to start gender wars? haha

Statistics will tell you women are safer. In my experience, I can't say one sex has been better than the other.
I have commented to some pupils that I've noticed a marked increase in being tailgated on the roads by an alarmingly high number of women recently, many with kids in the car.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

GBX wrote: »

What's the craziest thing you've seen a learner do or try do during a lesson ?

Thanks for your question, how long have you got?

2 have attempted to go the wrong way around a roundabout.

One day it started raining, I asked the pupil to turn on the wipers, which they did. It started raining a little heavier so I asked them to turn on the dipped headlights. They turned off the engine........at 50km/h :eek::D In the blink of an eye they turned it back on without hardly skipping a beat. I was in hysterics!! I did threaten to out them on my Facebook page but I wasn't that cruel!

Very common ones like, not spotting pedestrians approaching crossings, not spotting red lights etc. The most dangerous part about that is when I then brake, they panic and brake harder bringing us to an uncontrolled stop rather than the controlled stop I'd be making. It's very hard to undo too much braking!!

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Kiith wrote: »

What's the most common stupid thing you see non-learner/novice drivers doing?

As a new driver, it seems like some of the most basic things i was taught recently seem to have been forgotten by a large percentage of drivers.

Thanks for your question!
I think all drivers are guilty of forgetting the way they were taught tbh. I genuinely think that's a huge issue. I don't teach people how to pass a test, I try to teach people how to drive safely. That's something they should be doing for life. If more drivers treated others the way they'd like to be treated themselves there would be fewer accidents on the road.

As far as learner/novice drivers are concerned they often drive second by second not looking far enough along the road to spot and anticipate changing conditions in the distance. Another is not stopping at stop signs and also a lack of awareness/observations approaching roundabouts and emerging from junctions or changing lanes. Some seem to think the mirrors are painted on

Atlantic Dawn

Are there some students so bad and beyond help that you just have to tell them that driving is not for them?

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

FGR wrote: »

Thanks for coming onto boards!

Do you think the revision of rules as regards use of roundabouts i.e. the old rules of left lane for first and second exits and right lane for third and subsequent exits vs treating roundabout like a clock left lane before twelve right lane after twelve; has caused confusion amongst motorists?

I think the old rules make more sense and avoid errors being made in interpreting an exit and its location.

Thanks for the question! This is one I'm always asked down the pub tbh

The "Old" rules work fine for a straight forward, standard crossroads style roundabout however, as the road networks around the country have improved and junctions have been changed to free-flowing ones, using the likes of a roundabout which then aren't standard with 4, 5 or even 6 exits I definitely think the clock system works better imo. Learners seem to take to it easy enough but I can understand how the older generation who were used to the other method may become confused.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

What did becoming a Driving Instructor (DI) entail? The opening post mentions Final Test. How many tests were there?

Before you became a DI, what did you want to do for a living?

How long do you hope to last? Is there DI burn-out?

Do you meet other DIs? What's the main topic of conversation?

How much does it cost to convert your car ie add the extra brake?

When's the last time you had to use it, otherwise you (or your pupil) would have had an accident?

Would you teach your kids to drive?

How much has your insurance gone up in the last five years?

(and here was me thinking initially I didn't have any questions to ask!:rolleyes:)

Thanks for your questions, you could nearly have your own thread

We have to sit 3 tests in order to qualify.
1) Extended theory test of 80 questions covering driving, rules of the road and instructional questions. I can't remember the pass mark off the top of my head but it's circa 75/76 out of 80.
2) Extended/More Advanced driving test lasting 1-1.5hrs which covers all types of driving including motorway. We have to parallel park, reverse around a left and right corner and perform an emergency stop (which I think should be done in the normal test). I think we're only allowed 4/5 faults from memory.
3) Teaching test: 2x 30 min sessions where the tst role players a pupil. You're given the scenario and have a couple of mins to plan the lesson then you conduct a "lesson"

Our ADI Permit lasts 2 years. Within that time we get called for Check Test where an ADI Tester will sit in on a lesson and assess our performance including our EDT paperwork etc. If you fail the Check Test 3 times your badge won't be renewed and your out of work!


I worked in construction before becoming an ADI. I always fancied doing it though and I'm glad I got the chance to.

I don't see any reason why I wouldn't carry on til retirement tbh.....unless I win the lotto! The lad who trained me reckoned there was burnout. He reckoned 12 years or so. He's no longer doing it which is a huge shame, he was a superb trainer and is a definite loss to the industry.

You do meet other ADIs around the centre. In terms of chat it may be regarding new routes or just normal stuff like football etc. I don't really socialize with any in my personal time. It's not like working in a normal workplace tbh.

The dual controls cost about €700 supply and fit. Last used yesterday as they never copped a red light. The joys!


I'm currently teaching my daughter to drive. It's a weird dynamic tbh, totally different from teaching someone else's child. I genuinely care about the long term safety of all my pupils on the road but that's amplified 1 million times with my daughter. The dynamic is mainly different due to her back chat but we're getting there

My insurance has stayed virtually the same as I've been claim free since I started barring a couple of windscreens.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Did a learner ever land themselves (and you) in a situation that was difficult to get out of?

Do you get to know the testers after a while?

Anyone do damage to your car?

How much do you pay for insurance?

Thanks for your questions!

It can happen yeah. What prevents it becoming worse is being on the ball and concentrated not only on what's happening outside the car but inside also. It's amazing how good my peripheral vision is. You can be looking outside the car and still spot the pupil attempting or going into 1st gear when they've been accelerating and heading to 3rd.

You get to them them to a certain degree but we're often like ships passing in the night. The centre I'm in have seen a lot of tester changes over the last couple of years so I don't feel I know the currents ones as well as I used to know the others.

As far as insurance goes.....I pay enough

cannotlogin

Who are the most difficult people to teach?

Do you think age is much of a factor I.e. the younger you start, the easier it is?

Have you ever been surprised by someone who passed when you thought they wouldn't?

Is it a good job in terms of earning a living or is it more something people do for the enjoyment, flexibility etc?

Has anyone ever caused serious damage to your car during a lesson?

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Deleted User wrote: »

My first time driving, getting a lesson, I was in a marked driving instructor's car. We reached a fairly quiet T junction, and I cut out when attempting to move off. Got the car going again, and moved off. Took a total of about 8 seconds I'd say.

A car arrived behind me, and gave me a lovely big beep to get me moving. I have to be honest, at the time, I actually didn't even realise i had been beeped (my instructor said it to me afterwards, not to worry about it, and I hadn't a notion what he was talking about). I must have been so zoned in on what I was doing that I didn't notice.

To this day, many, many years later, I still get annoyed about it (the beeping itself, not that I didnt realise I was beeped).

Is this common, do you find?

Personally I always give marked Learner vehicles (cars, trucks, buses, whatever) looooads of space and do what I can to make life easier for them, incase they're in a test. It really irks me when I see people be impatient with L drivers, especially in marked cars.


Secondly, obligatory question everyone wants to ask - Have you ever heard of anyone try and sexualise things to get a pass in their driving test, that they wouldn't have otherwise gotten (perhaps I'm on the internet too much!)

Thanks for your questions

Fortunately, it's not an everyday occurrence but it can happen. It's very frustrating when it does and it can be hard to keep your cool and not react to them. I find tailgating is a much more serious issue which occurs hourly let alone weekly.

I once had a lad turn up for test looking like Freddie Mercury in the "I Want To Break Free" video in order to seduce the male testers into passing him!
*this may or may not have happened

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Are there some students so bad and beyond help that you just have to tell them that driving is not for them?

Thanks for your question!
It's not been something I've ever had to say to a pupil. I have suggested to a couple that they might try an automatic car which they've done and gone on to pass.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

cannotlogin wrote: »

Who are the most difficult people to teach?

Do you think age is much of a factor I.e. the younger you start, the easier it is?

Have you ever been surprised by someone who passed when you thought they wouldn't?

Is it a good job in terms of earning a living or is it more something people do for the enjoyment, flexibility etc?

Has anyone ever caused serious damage to your car during a lesson?

Thanks for your questions!

Age is very often a factor. When pupils are younger they don't have the same appreciation of the potential danger than they might when they mature a bit more, "bulletproof" is often the mentality which means they just get in and do it. Statistics would back up what I say here if you were to look at age as a demographic they younger categories would generally take less lessons to pass.

I have had a few surprises yeah. Similarly, I've had pupils who I wasn't remotely worried about go in and fail. It's the nature of it and once they go out there there's absolutely nothing I can do for them, their destiny is in their own hands......and the testers

I thoroughly enjoy my job. It's not an easy job. You have to have the right personality and mentality to do it well. It takes loads of concentration. It can be mentally tiring. Some people say, "Ah you're sat on your bum all day" We have to be spotting everything. It's a really satisfying job though. You get someone who's never sat in a driver's seat and teach them how to drive and ultimately pass the test. That's very rewarding, you've both went on a journey and did it together. I earned more in construction but I'm way happier doing what I'm doing now.

Touch wood, only a burst tyre and a scrape to an alloy. Please don't have just jinxed me!

Bob Harris

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA wrote: »

You get someone who's never sat in a driver's seat and teach them how to drive and ultimately pass the test. That's very rewarding, you've both went on a journey and did it together. I earned more in construction but I'm way happier doing what I'm doing now.

Touch wood, only a burst tyre and a scrape to an alloy. Please don't have just jinxed me!

Is that an intentional pun?

It's a how long is a piece of string question but what percentage of people who have their licence 10+ years would pass the test if they did it now without lessons?

Should there be a refresher test after a certain number of years?

SketchyPrince

Have you ever had people come to you from another instructor because they didn't get along?

Myself, I ditched my first driving instructor when, after my 12th lesson, he gave me a bollocking and told me I was miles off being ready for a test. Moved onto another who was much easier to work with.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Bob Harris wrote: »

Is that an intentional pun?

It's a how long is a piece of string question but what percentage of people who have their licence 10+ years would pass the test if they did it now without lessons?

Should there be a refresher test after a certain number of years?

It was a little bit, yeah

I think quite a high percentage who've held their fill licence for 10 years+ would fail without any refresher instruction. Unfortunately, most see the test as a means to an end and tend to slip into the easiest ways to do things rather than continuing with the correct way.

I'm on the fence with a refresher test tbh. I can see the benefits of having to do it. It would be a brave government who tried to bring it in, turkeys rarely vote for Christmas.

dartboardio

Do you often come across people Who are quite nervous at first and then calm down quickly after a few mins of it?

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

SketchyPrince wrote: »

Have you ever had people come to you from another instructor because they didn't get along?

Myself, I ditched my first driving instructor when, after my 12th lesson, he gave me a bollocking and told me I was miles off being ready for a test. Moved onto another who was much easier to work with.

It happens all the time. Like any situation in life, there's some people you get on with and some you don't. It's life, it happens. I always tell my pupil's right at the start that if they don't feel the relationship is working to feel free to try someone else. At the end of the day personalities can and do clash. It's their lessons, they're paying.
A good instructor, should though, be able to assess which pupils need an arm around them and which ones need the tough love. We're part instructor, part psychologist I often say. That's why personality and people skills are such a strong component in doing this job.
I've told pupils in the past that they wouldn't pass if they continued at their current rate but give them the incentive to "prove me wrong". The best result is them doing exactly that, in those cases I'm giving them a nudge with reverse psychology.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

dartboardio wrote: »

Do you often come across people Who are quite nervous at first and then calm down quickly after a few mins of it?

Ah yeah, that's very common, especially when going out onto the road for the first time. when they arrive home safely they're buzzing. Others can still be nervous after numerous lessons.
I've a pupil just now who completed the EDT lessons with another instructor. They admit openly they overthink everything. This causes them to worry about things quite a bit. I need to help them make logic of things, give them various options about how to deal with things so it can take a good bit of talking through the various situations. This has impacted on their actual driving time so I suggested doing 1.5hr lessons. That seems to have helped because they said the other day they can feel the confidence growing

Ronin247

Is going over the posted speed limit an automatic fail? My siblings instructor said if the limit is 50 you should be driving as near to 50 as possible and not to worry about possibly going 1 or 2 kph over the limit momentarily. I was taught (pre kph) to stay at least 1 or 2 mph under.

Galwayguy35

Do you give lessons on other vehicles like buses and trucks or is it just cars?

Gloomtastic!

What rule(s) of the road would you change?

helimachoptor

My mum did her test 13 times and passed on the 14th attempt.

do you think she should have been banned from driving at a certain number of fails?

Imo she ended up getting to know of the the female instructors in the test centre on the 3rd/4th attempt, so she took her for each subsequent test. Eventually id say she just wanted rid of her :pac:

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Ronin247 wrote: »

Is going over the posted speed limit an automatic fail? My siblings instructor said if the limit is 50 you should be driving as near to 50 as possible and not to worry about possibly going 1 or 2 kph over the limit momentarily. I was taught (pre kph) to stay at least 1 or 2 mph under.

Going over the limit would only be an instant fail if it were "excessive" or with a blatant "disregard" for the limit. It would be considered important to maintain "reasonable progress" in most circumstances.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Do you give lessons on other vehicles like buses and trucks or is it just cars?

Only cars. I'm able to give BE lessons (trailer) but I don't have enough experience in pulling them to feel qualified to actually teach them.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

What rule(s) of the road would you change?

I'm not sure there's any rule that I'd change as such but I'd like to see less STOP signs at junctions in favour of more Yield signs. I think the number of STOP junctions are ridiculous tbh.

Maybe allowing learners on the motorway but only in a dual controlled car accompanied by an ADI would be a good improvement to the ROTR.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

helimachoptor wrote: »

My mum did her test 13 times and passed on the 14th attempt.

do you think she should have been banned from driving at a certain number of fails?

Imo she ended up getting to know of the the female instructors in the test centre on the 3rd/4th attempt, so she took her for each subsequent test. Eventually id say she just wanted rid of her :pac:

I don't think banning someone from taking the test would stand up in the European Court of Human Rights tbh

Fair play to her for sticking with it. That takes determination. I'd a woman come to me last year who had failed 17 tests. She passed on her 18th attempt after doing around 12 hrs with me over around 3 months.

Cork Trucker

Thanks for doing this AMA.

How does the testing work for an ADI, do you need to hold an ADI for cars before doing category C,D,E? It is something i am considering but Buses and trucks would be what i would prefer to do and not cars.

SketchyPrince

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA wrote: »

It happens all the time. Like any situation in life, there's some people you get on with and some you don't. It's life, it happens. I always tell my pupil's right at the start that if they don't feel the relationship is working to feel free to try someone else. At the end of the day personalities can and do clash. It's their lessons, they're paying.
A good instructor, should though, be able to assess which pupils need an arm around them and which ones need the tough love. We're part instructor, part psychologist I often say. That's why personality and people skills are such a strong component in doing this job.
I've told pupils in the past that they wouldn't pass if they continued at their current rate but give them the incentive to "prove me wrong". The best result is them doing exactly that, in those cases I'm giving them a nudge with reverse psychology.

Great answer, thank you.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Thanks for doing this AMA.

How does the testing work for an ADI, do you need to hold an ADI for cars before doing category C,D,E? It is something i am considering but Buses and trucks would be what i would prefer to do and not cars.

https://www.rsa.ie/en/Utility/Driving-Instructors1/Becoming-an-ADI/

Open the above link and download the ADI Information Pack. Once you've that downloaded read PDF 9. You select the categories you can teach in based on your own licence entitlements is my understanding of it.

JP Liz V1

Please help how to stop coasting?

Mars Bar

Have you driven abroad?
I'm in the Middle East and every instructor here should be sacked.

Gloomtastic!

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA wrote: »

I'm not sure there's any rule that I'd change as such but I'd like to see less STOP signs at junctions in favour of more Yield signs. I think the number of STOP junctions are ridiculous tbh.

Maybe allowing learners on the motorway but only in a dual controlled car accompanied by an ADI would be a good improvement to the ROTR.

Hopefully I wasn't the only one who had to Google what the difference is between a Stop and Yield sign. :rolleyes:

Purgative

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Hopefully I wasn't the only one who had to Google what the difference is between a Stop and Yield sign. :rolleyes:

Oops me too. Especially as it passed me by the first time it was mentioned

Agent Smith

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA wrote: »

and fit. Last used yesterday as they never copped a red light. The joys!


I'm currently teaching my daughter to drive. It's a weird dynamic tbh, totally different from teaching someone else's child.

Do you shout the wrong instructions at her like my dad used to me at, Shouting that i wasnt going down a gear (2nd to 3rd) or why didnt i go the other left.... :pac:


Do you have a bedside locker?

If so, whats in your bedside locker?


Do you believe people who have driven for x amount of years so have to do a refresher test?

The Tetrarch

How quickly can you assess a new pupil?
Do you get an instant feeling of OMG, WTF, HELP, or the opposite - this person will do well with a little guidance.

Sabre0001

What are your thoughts on the belief that test centres have to fail a certain number of people per day?

Do you recommend trying to get any time slots in particular (easier to drive, if the above is true do you go early or late, traffic considerations)?

Are there any behaviours that you would like to see people instantly fail their test for - i.e. the testing process isn't strict enough on?

Would you like to see the introduction of turning on a red light like they have in the States?

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Please help how to stop coasting?

Can you be a little bit more specific about how/when you find yourself coasting?
If you can answer this I can be a bit more specific

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Mars Bar wrote: »

Have you driven abroad?
I'm in the Middle East and every instructor here should be sacked.

I've driven in Europe. I drove around France for the World Cup in 1998. I've driven in Majorca and Tenerife and also through Portugal and into Spain and back again.

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Hopefully I wasn't the only one who had to Google what the difference is between a Stop and Yield sign. :rolleyes:

Purgative wrote: »

Oops me too. Especially as it passed me by the first time it was mentioned

Go to the back of the class you two!!

I'm a Driving Instructor, AMA

Agent Smith wrote: »

Do you shout the wrong instructions at her like my dad used to me at, Shouting that i wasnt going down a gear (2nd to 3rd) or why didnt i go the other left.... :pac:


Do you have a bedside locker?

If so, whats in your bedside locker?


Do you believe people who have driven for x amount of years so have to do a refresher test?

I don't shout at her at all but sometimes it's easy to mix up left and right, I ask them to follow my hands :pac:

I don't have a bedside locker but do have a chest of drawers with a couple of small drawers for crap. You never know what you'll find there, various football pin badges, aftershave, nail clippers etc.....absolutely nothing exciting tbh.

I answered the refresher question further up the thread :cool: