Re standing on highway

TheBoyConor

Do not approach him and most certainly do not call in and knock on the door.

He could twist it that you were intimidating him or casing the house or something like that.

Do absolutely nothing. tell him you are wating for a lift and then put in your ear phones and let him freak out if he wants to. That is his own problem.

Op is under no obligation to engage with this man at all. He is not a Guard and has no right to challenge you for any information at all.

TheBoyConor

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Do not approach him and most certainly do not call in and knock on the door.

He could twist it that you were intimidating him or casing the house or something like that.

Do absolutely nothing. tell him you are wating for a lift and then put in your ear phones and let him freak out if he wants to. That is his own problem.

Op is under no obligation to engage with this man at all. He is not a Guard and has no right to challenge you for any information at all.

It's called being polite and reasonable. Not every move you make in life has to be from a rule book.

NSAman

Could your friend not give you a call just before he arrives so that it avoids all this unpleasantness, from someone who obviously has NOTHING happening in his life except to complain about someone waiting for a lift???

The road looks like it is public right of way.....it is maintained all the way to his boundary wall and hence tell him to get lost and get laid.. someone is obviously frustrated for some reason..;)

Mr Tickle

Just tell him you're scouting locations for a new Direct Provision Centre/injection site/speed van location/green party HQ/ whatever you think will set him off best.

ooh tell him you want to put a wind turbine in his garden

TheBoyConor

That's it. Fill him full of shít that you are surveying locations for modular injecting booths. Like a phone box type setup.


Mod
NSaman,Mr Tickle and Boy Conor
Ease off there, OK?

Conmhara

Thank you all for your insight and feedback. I feel pretty good about how to handle it.

Mostly I will do nothing but if I am approached again, I will be polite and I will be clear. I will assure him and that should be the end of it. If he persists, I'll just ignore him and carry on minding my own business.

I am done with this thread.

Later days all

nuac

Title amended for clarity

NSAman

nuac wrote: »

Title amended for clarity

Why does Clarity always get these titles amended? Is she a bad at comprehension or sumting'?

Mod
As a lawyer I have always drafted documents in Faith that I will be paid, in Hope that they will work and that Clarity will be apparent to readers more erudite than I.

Agent Smith

having seen the spot, I feel the only sensible option is to start quoting Chris Rea Lyrics whenever he challenges you.

"Hey, i thought i told you not to stand there!"

OP: "We'll I'm standing by a river but the water doesn't flow It boils with every poison you can think of "
OR
OP: "the roads jam up with credit And there's nothing you can do ,It's all just bits of paper flying away from you."
OR
OP: "This ain't no upwardly mobile freeway....Oh no, this is the road...This is the road...This is the road to hell"


For added effect, Have an electric Guitar handy, to strum this out....

Dufflecoat Fanny

You should wear a grim reaper costume every morning from now on

silver2020

Be over pleasant

Let him know that it's the safest place for your colleague to stop and pick you up for work and that you are doing you bit for the environment by getting a lift instead of using an extra car.

Then say, "if you even need a hand with something, just let me know - I can alway come a few minutes early".


Watch him rethink his attitude and he may actually see a positive

Homer

Deleted User wrote: »

It's called being polite and reasonable. Not every move you make in life has to be from a rule book.

Yeah just like this cranky old a*rsehole homeowner is being

Strumms

harr wrote: »

Looks very much like a public road , once you aren’t leaning against his wall or anything not much he can do about it . Explain you are waiting on a lift to work and not actually casing out his house to rob ��
Some people have little to be giving out about ...

Personally I’d think twice about saying fûck all to him except to say you are standing in a public area and if he doesn’t fûck off and stop harassing you that you will call the Gardai. If it escalated that these types of menacing and harassing interactions become regular I’d go ahead and actually do it in front of him. With bullies you need to hit them back twice as hard, take no ****, you have the freedom to stand where you like on a public path, any public path. Because some clown has some strange paranoia about someone interfering with his prize begonias or watching him cut the grass, not your problem...

Marcusm

Conmhara wrote: »

Good point! Here's the spot in question

Is there a footpath on the other side of the road? If yes then you are committing an offence by standing on his side of the road. Pedestrians have a right to process along the road where necessary but not to stand on it per se.

Rodin

Is that an actual road, for cars, that you want to stand on rather than a footpath?

How do you get out of the way should a car want to drive along the road?

Peregrinus

Marcusm wrote: »

Is there a footpath on the other side of the road? If yes then you are committing an offence by standing on his side of the road. Pedestrians have a right to process along the road where necessary but not to stand on it per se.

Standing still in the road, or on the footpath, can be an obstruction, which is not something you are entitled to do on a public road. But the person entitled to complain about that is not the owner of land across which the road runs, or the owner of land adjacent to the road; it's the person trying to use the public road, who is being obstructed.

And simply being stationary in the road or footpath isn't, in itself, obstruction. You'd need to show some actual obstruction resulting.

Always Tired

You should be within your rights to stand there but if he continues to confront you be careful not to get aggressive, even just verbally.

The trespassing laws cover what they call the 'curtilage' of a property and forbid someone acting in a menacing way in that area. What constitutes menacing isnt defined really, basically if the person reporting it says they were scared that is enough.

So I would be sure to always stand facing away from the house (Im guessing you would be anyway) as facing the house could be seen as menacing.

If he comes out of the house again Id just stay facing out towards the road and ignore him, maybe consider taking your phone out and filming any interactions (but not any of the private property) just to cover yourself.

Peregrinus

It's not "property" that has a curtilage; it's buildings, structures, premises, etc. The curtilage of a building is an area of ground attached to the building and forming an enclosure with it; the word is related to "court", "courtyard" and so forth. "Curtilage" does not mean the immediate vicinity of a property.

So the yard, garden, etc attached to a house and bounded by a wall, fence, ditch, hedge or something of the kind is the curtilage of the house. Whatever lies on the other side of the wall, be it field, street or something else, is not.

Quantum Erasure

why not wait on 'your' side of the road, and cross over when your lift comes?

longgonesilver

Does the crime of loitering with intent still exist?

Peregrinus

longgonesilver wrote: »

Does the crime of loitering with intent still exist?

Not quite.

Under Criminal Justice (Public Order Offences) Act 1994 s. 8, if you're . . .

". . . without lawful authority or reasonable excuse . . . loitering in a public place in circumstances . . . that give rise to a reasonable apprehension for the safety of persons or the safety of property or for the maintenance of the public peace . . ."

. . . then a guard can tell you to move along. If you then fail to move along, that's an offence.

So the crime under this provision is not the loitering itself, but the subsequent refusal to move along, when directed to by a guard.

On the facts given by the OP, s. 8 wouldn't apply. Waiting in the street to meet a friend by appointment is a common and entirely normal way of conducting oneself in a public place, and not a circumstance which would justify a reasonable apprehension for safety of persons or property or threats to public order. There would have to be additional facts, not mentioned in the OP, to enable a guard to rely on s. 8.

Which is not to say that a guard to whom the householder complained might not suggest that you go and wait outside the next house anyway, just for the sake of a quiet life. But he couldn't (safely) frame that in terms of a direction under s. 8, breach of which might give rise to criminal sanctions.

Marcusm

Peregrinus wrote: »

Standing still in the road, or on the footpath, can be an obstruction, which is not something you are entitled to do on a public road. But the person entitled to complain about that is not the owner of land across which the road runs, or the owner of land adjacent to the road; it's the person trying to use the public road, who is being obstructed.

And simply being stationary in the road or footpath isn't, in itself, obstruction. You'd need to show some actual obstruction resulting.

I’m not thinking of an “obstruction” per se but rather the bye-law obligating a pedestrian to use a path where one is provided. The photo illustrates a verge up to the boundary wall. I absolutely agree that the property owner does not have any standing to enforce any laws but in the other hand, there’s no point in the OP standing where he will attract criticism unnecessarily. It’s also an unsafe practice.

NUTLEY BOY

D3V!L wrote: »

Next time he tells you that you can't stand there ask him "or what" ?

Watch him trip over himself or at least incriminate himself in some sort of threat.

Oh and make sure you record it on your phone.

IMHO the very best thing to do is to say precisely and utterly nothing if the occupant challenges OP. Anything OP might say could be twisted or misunderstood [deliberately or accidentally] or even be interpreted as provocative. However, if OP says nothing at all there is nothing to either quote or misconstrue.

If the occupant rings Gardaí he will most likely receive a free tutorial on the principles applicable to the situation and hopefully cop himself on.

GM228

Marcusm wrote: »

I’m not thinking of an “obstruction” per se but rather the bye-law obligating a pedestrian to use a path where one is provided. The photo illustrates a verge up to the boundary wall. I absolutely agree that the property owner does not have any standing to enforce any laws but in the other hand, there’s no point in the OP standing where he will attract criticism unnecessarily. It’s also an unsafe practice.

It's provided for by ministerial regulation, not a bye law, yes you are correct it is an offence to not use the footway if one is provided, but, the reality is it is not something which would be pursued, it is considered trivial.

Strumms

So you have people here advocating that you can’t or shouldn’t wait on a public path for somebody ...Jesus.

If I go out for a walk now on my road, get a bit tired, stop, rest for five minutes, take a look around, is it an expected acceptance that the person in number 33 would come out, demanding I inform them what I’m doing, demanding I walk on ? No, simply not going to happen, if that does happen I’m not involving myself with them, it’s not acceptable to be harassed going about your daily business on a public pathway. Walking, resting, taking a phone call, talking to someone etc... whatever, we need to quit enabling these freaks who believe that they can harass, dictate and bully.

nuac

Mod
It is a thread for legal discussion

Claw Hammer

It could well be that the householder has title to the middle of the public road.
In Clerk & Lindsell, The Law of Torts, 17th ed. (1995), para. 17-41 the current state of the law as to the question of use is summarised in these terms:

"The right of the public in respect of a highway is limited to the use of it for the purpose of passing and repassing and for such other reasonable purposes as it is usual to use the highway; if a member of the public uses it for any other purpose than that of passing and repassing he will be a trespasser."

The issue then is whether it is reasonable to stand waiting for a lift at the side of the road if it is owned by an adjacent householder.

TheBoyConor

I would think it reasonable.

On what basis could minding your own business while quietly waiting for your lift for a few minutes be considered to be unreasonable?

Anyway, the finer points of an obscure law are neither here nor there. It is a public road and the Gardai are not going to entertain a complaint from the householder because someone is standing waiting for their lift.
Contrary aul geezer should be told to save his breath for cooling his porridge.

Peregrinus

I agree with TheBoyConor. Waiting in the street to meet a friend by appointment is definitely a reasonable purpose for which it is normal to use the highway.

And, even if it isn't, the consequence is that the person doing the waiting is a trespasser. But simple trespass is not a crime and the guards are not going to do anything about it. The landowner can sue the person doing the waiting for damages; he'll need to prove the damage he has suffered by having someone wait for a friend in the street outside his house. Good luck with that.

TheBoyConor

I still think that the next time he emerges from his hovel spouting drivel and mouthing off, the op should be shoving a phone camera in his face for the record and his own safety". These cranky aul geezers get very shy when their behaviour is recorded for others to see.