Kona 11kW charger

mp3guy

I have a new Kona with this charger (according to the dealer). Where can I actually pull 11kW? I plugged into an ecars charging point yesterday rated at 22kW and only got 7kW. Is there some magic I need to do?

Black_Knight

That should be all that's needed. What charge point was it? Might be incorrectly marked as 22kW.

thelikelylad

It's 11kW 3 phase. My guess is the Type 2 cable supplied with the car is only capable of 32A single phase.

You likely need one of these cables: Link

mp3guy

Black_Knight wrote: »

That should be all that's needed. What charge point was it? Might be incorrectly marked as 22kW.

C8DL4 Carrigaline Road, Crosshaven, Cork.

thelikelylad wrote: »

It's 11kW 3 phase. My guess is the Type 2 cable supplied with the car is only capable of 32A single phase.

You likely need one of these cables: Link

Sounds reasonable. Anyway of checking my cable first to be sure?

ELM327

Does your car have 11kW spec?
Does your cable support 16a three phase (ie 11kW)
Does the charge point support 11kW


I suggest you may have an older spec kona without 11kW , or you have the wrong cable.

mp3guy

ELM327 wrote: »

Does your car have 11kW spec?
Does your cable support 16a three phase (ie 11kW)
Does the charge point support 11kW


I suggest you may have an older spec kona without 11kW , or you have the wrong cable.

New spec, according to the dealer. Has the larger 11.25" entertainment system and the 11kw charger, allegedly. Had to specifically ask about it when I was ordering it and he confirmed.

I've attached a picture of the cable, can't find the model online and the manual mentions phase nowhere.

But I guess the "1P+N+Ground" tells me it's single phase? So as linked above, I want a 32A 3-phase cable?

ELM327

Yup, thats the wrong charging cable, you need a cable suited to 32a 3phn.
Bad form of them to include the wrong one!

mp3guy

ELM327 wrote: »

Yup, thats the wrong charging cable, you need a cable suited to 32a 3phn.
Bad form of them to include the wrong one!

In general can I always use a 32A 3P cable if I get one or would I need to chop and change depending on the charge point?

kennethsmyth

mp3guy wrote: »

In general can I always use a 32A 3P cable if I get one or would I need to chop and change depending on the charge point?

Get the 32amp 3 phase and that will work with all. The 16amp 3 phase would only give 3.8 on a single phase

mp3guy

Thanks for the info everyone! Will report back once I've tried out a new cable.

BMW only supply a single phase lead with the i3, greedy b1stards !

Yes get a 32 amp 3 phase, I made the mistake of getting a 16 amp, this is fine for 11 Kw 3phase but will only give me 3.5 Kw on single phase, it's no big deal really because I still got the supplied single phase lead.

Disgraceful practice from Hyundai, you'd expect this from the Germans !

Black_Knight

That's pretty **** from them. Charging you extra for 11kW charging, and then having you fork out more again for the ability to use that 11kW charging. Certainly would catch out the average Joe Soap

mp3guy

Black_Knight wrote: »

That's pretty **** from them. Charging you extra for 11kW charging, and then having you fork out more again for the ability to use that 11kW charging. Certainly would catch out the average Joe Soap

I might give the dealer a ring actually and push him for an excuse.

yeah would be interesting to hear what they have to say.

Just be double sure it's the updated model with 3 phase.

Mickeroo

Quite likely the issue will be news to them, they are just selling the car with the cables provided with it and probably know bugger all about charging speeds or standards.

Mickeroo

Mickeroo wrote: »

Quite likely the issue will be news to them, they are just selling the car with the cables provided with it and probably know bugger all about charging speeds or standards.

They should know everything about the product they're selling don't you think ?especially something as important as charging. Surely it's not difficult to research the product they're selling ?

mp3guy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They should know everything about the product they're selling don't you think ?especially something as important as charging. Surely it's not difficult to research the product they're selling ?

You'd be surprised how ignorant some dealers are, especially with EVs.

mp3guy

mp3guy wrote: »

You'd be surprised how ignorant some dealers are, especially with EVs.

Yes, unfortunately I'm well aware, however, that is no excuse. It's their job to know about the car and be familiar with, especially about something as important as charging.

mp3guy

Deleted User wrote: »

yeah would be interesting to hear what they have to say.

Just be double sure it's the updated model with 3 phase.

Dealer said leave it with him and he'd get back to me, so sounds like he isn't too familiar with things.

I'm 99% sure it is the updated model, they only list two specs on the website at the moment and only one has the 11kW charger and that's the one with the new entertainment system and upgraded sound system which I do have. The dealer also said it was the newer one with the new charger. No indication in the manual, car or under the hood.

thelikelylad

mp3guy wrote: »

Dealer said leave it with him and he'd get back to me, so sounds like he isn't too familiar with things.

I'm 99% sure it is the updated model, they only list two specs on the website at the moment and only one has the 11kW charger and that's the one with the new entertainment system and upgraded sound system which I do have. The dealer also said it was the newer one with the new charger. No indication in the manual, car or under the hood.

If you want to be sure without buying a cable or chasing the dealer you could go to an ecars FCP. Connect the 43kW 'Fast AC' and the car should pull 11kW when charging.

mp3guy

Well the dealer rang me back to say it was the right cable, standard issue, and the head office in Dublin told him the only way the Kona would pull 11kW was using the bottom two pins, i.e. the DC port. I told him I thought otherwise so in a few minutes I'll be off to my nearest 43kW Fast AC charger as suggested above to get the definitive answer on this. If it pulls 11kW I'll take a video and send it on to the dealer.

Either I wasn't sold the 11kW car despite being told I was, or even Hyundai's head office in Dublin is clueless.

ELM327

It's the latter

Mickeroo

Yeah, I know what explanation my money is on.

bonoman66

mp3guy wrote: »

Well the dealer rang me back to say it was the right cable, standard issue, and the head office in Dublin told him the only way the Kona would pull 11kW was using the bottom two pins, i.e. the DC port. I told him I thought otherwise so in a few minutes I'll be off to my nearest 43kW Fast AC charger as suggested above to get the definitive answer on this. If it pulls 11kW I'll take a video and send it on to the dealer.

Either I wasn't sold the 11kW car despite being told I was, or even Hyundai's head office in Dublin is clueless.

The paddy spec for the new premium version of the Kona indicates that it comes with the larger 10.25" Display, 8 Speaker Krell Audio System & the onboard 11KW charging capability.

So if you have that larger display on your Kona Electric - you definitely (according to what Hyundai Ireland provide as the new Kona Premium specs for the Ireland market) should have the 11KW charging capability too.

Most likely dealer ignorance & there is no excuse for that. Pure laziness & not having to bother having to try hard to sell etc.. These guys should know every aspect of what they are selling - inside out & take pride in their job & knowledge. Too much to expect I guess at present - maybe with more competition!

slave1

Dare I say it we cannot assume this car has the 11kW charging as there was examples previously of cars being out of spec on that advertised (Leaf 24 being sold as a Leaf 30 springs to mind!!) and neither manufacturer nor dealer had a clue until it was put to them.

I'd imagine there is a plate somewhere on the on board charger that lists it's spec so you could have a look for it or just randomly stick a mobile phone down a few gaps and take some opportunistic photos

Believe you me, you know more than the dealer and Irish head office when it comes to EVs

Yeah I remember seeing 7.4 Kw sticker on the E-soul charger so get under the bonnet and take photos.

Look under the bonnet, it's the module with the black lid, should have a sticker on it.

mp3guy

Ok after a bit more digging around under the hood I have a new development. Didn't get a chance to try the 43kW AC charger yet, but it looks like there is indeed an 11kW charger, but it's single phase 50A which is weird? I'd need a new cable for that regardless, but do any public chargers even provide that power level?

mp3guy

mp3guy wrote: »

Ok after a bit more digging around under the hood I have a new development. Didn't get a chance to try the 43kW AC charger yet, but it looks like there is indeed an 11kW charger, but it's single phase 50A which is weird? I'd need a new cable for that regardless, but do any public chargers even provide that power level?

That's most bizzare, it would indeed appear single phase if the max voltage is 285 volts and 50 amps that just doesn't make sense and they advertise it as 3 phase.

So best to do as suggested and head to the fast charger and see how many Kw it can pull.

I'm not sure how many amps the AC part of the fast chargers can deliver on single phase though. So that could fool you also.

What is your location ? I have a 3 phase AC lead that can test this out from an ESB 22 KW charger. You could take a spin to Carlow Town

kennethsmyth

mp3guy wrote: »

Ok after a bit more digging around under the hood I have a new development. Didn't get a chance to try the 43kW AC charger yet, but it looks like there is indeed an 11kW charger, but it's single phase 50A which is weird? I'd need a new cable for that regardless, but do any public chargers even provide that power level?

I think that sticker will mean 50amps x 220/230v (input) which would be 11/11.5kw which is correct.

3 phase cable would be 16amp x 220/230v x 3 = 10.5/11kw so would also be correct.

However to always get the best ac speed the cable needed would be a 32amp 3 phase.

This allows 6.6/7kw at single phase and 11kw at 3 phase

mp3guy

Deleted User wrote: »

That's most bizzare, it would indeed appear single phase if the max voltage is 285 volts and 50 amps that just doesn't make sense and they advertise it as 3 phase.

So best to do as suggested and head to the fast charger and see how many Kw it can pull.

I'm not sure how many amps the AC part of the fast chargers can deliver on single phase though. So that could fool you also.

What is your location ? I have a 3 phase AC lead that can test this out from an ESB 22 KW charger. You could take a spin to Carlow Town

I was about to say I need to find someone local I can borrow a cable from. Based in Cork, south side.

kennethsmyth wrote: »

I think that sticker will mean 50amps x 220/230v (input) which would be 11/11.5kw which is correct.

3 phase cable would be 16amp x 220/230v x 3 = 10.5/11kw so would also be correct.

However to always get the best ac speed the cable needed would be a 32amp 3 phase.

This allows 6.6/7kw at single phase and 11kw at 3 phase

The confusing part for me is whether or not this actually takes 3 phases as input. Maybe there's another component before this that converts any 3 phase input into single phase 50A? I looked at the type 2 port and there looks to be metal contacts on the other two phase ports if that means anything.

Will definitely make it to a 43kW AC charger this afternoon either way.

kennethsmyth

mp3guy wrote: »

I was about to say I need to find someone local I can borrow a cable from. Based in Cork, south side.



The confusing part for me is whether or not this actually takes 3 phases as input. Maybe there's another component before this that converts any 3 phase input into single phase 50A? I looked at the type 2 port and there looks to be metal contacts on the other two phase ports if that means anything.

Will definitely make it to a 43kW AC charger this afternoon either way.

Its likely you simply have wrong cable and Hyundai either drop the same one in all cars or send in bulk to dealership hence the same cable as normal 7kw ac charging car

mp3guy

Alright, plugged into a 43kW AC charger and lo and behold, 11kW pulled! Now to bring the evidence to the dealer to give me the proper cable.

JPA

I hope they sort you out but I they don't think they will. Your car is 11kw capable, that might be their arguement.

LeBash

My guess is the single phase cable works everywhere and you're on your own if you want a 3 phase but the car is capable of using it.

I'm raging. Have a Kona and a twin 22kw charger in work. Manual says empty the tank once per month and recharge to full but I'd say it would knock 3-4 hours which would probably be a working day and no in early followed by hanging around after.

Might have a look and see what they'll offer as a trade in.

mp3guy

mp3guy wrote: »

Alright, plugged into a 43kW AC charger and lo and behold, 11kW pulled! Now to bring the evidence to the dealer to give me the proper cable.

Not sure the dealer can do anything if Hyundai supply a single phase lead.

BMW also only supply a single phase lead with the i3.

JPA

LeBash wrote: »

My guess is the single phase cable works everywhere and you're on your own if you want a 3 phase but the car is capable of using it.

I'm raging. Have a Kona and a twin 22kw charger in work. Manual says empty the tank once per month and recharge to full but I'd say it would knock 3-4 hours which would probably be a working day and no in early followed by hanging around after.

Might have a look and see what they'll offer as a trade in.

Or get the 3 phase cable. What am I missing?

mp3guy

JPA wrote: »

I hope they sort you out but I they don't think they will. Your car is 11kw capable, that might be their arguement.

LeBash wrote: »

My guess is the single phase cable works everywhere and you're on your own if you want a 3 phase but the car is capable of using it.

I don't see this floating. Why not just give me a 3.6kW 16A cable then? Car is 7kW and 11kW capable, not their problem? It's a key feature on the new model. Definitely going to push them on it.

Deleted User wrote: »

Not sure the dealer can do anything if Hyundai supply a single phase lead.

At a minimum take it all the way back to HQ and give me their best excuse which I can tell them isn't good enough.

Even so, I would be surprised if they ponied up a proper cable, but that doesn't mean I can't let them understand just how wrong their current offering is before moving on.

mp3guy

KCross wrote: »

My guess is that the car isn’t 3ph enabled and hence a different cable won’t help you. It’s pulling that 11kW from one phase of the 43kW charger based on the pic you posted earlier.

If I were you I’d confirm that first before going back to the dealer. Get a loan of a 3ph 32A cable and plug it into an eCars 22kW charge point. My guess is that you’ll get 7.4kW, not 11kW.

This is definitely one other possibility. There are no 50A type 2 charge points though is there? So it would make the on board charger upgrade useless, besides at 43kW AC chargers.

Even still, an (albeit much weaker) argument to be made as to why I'm only provided a 32A cable for a 50A charger.

<edit> Looks like the post I quoted disappeared, or my browser messed up.

krissovo

LeBash wrote: »

I'm raging. Have a Kona and a twin 22kw charger in work. Manual says empty the tank once per month and recharge to full but I'd say it would knock 3-4 hours which would probably be a working day and no in early followed by hanging around after.

I thought general best practice for EV's is to charge at 7kw to normalise the battery and not at a faster speed.

krissovo

krissovo wrote: »

I thought general best practice for EV's is to charge at 7kw to normalise the battery and not at a faster speed.

Charging at 11 Kw is nothing to the battery, charging it at 70 kw is not bad for an almost 70 Kwh battery also.

Remember it can regen at 144 Kw ( as observed in the e-soul, this is the same battery,motor etc in the Kona) or possibly more going down a steep hill at speed.

The battery won't really need to balance if it's not taken to very low %. Li batteries stay pretty well balanced unless there are weak cells and/or it runs to a low charge %.

ELM327

mp3guy wrote: »

This is definitely one other possibility. There are no 50A type 2 charge points though is there? So it would make the on board charger upgrade useless, besides at 43kW AC chargers.

Even still, an (albeit much weaker) argument to be made as to why I'm only provided a 32A cable for a 50A charger.

<edit> Looks like the post I quoted disappeared, or my browser messed up.

It's not a possibility
No car sold in the EU charges at more than 32a on single phase.
If you're getting 11kW it's 16a three phase.


It is not possible to charge at higher than 32a single phase in the EU spec cars without doing some wizardry.

mp3guy

Update: Dealer got back to me after I emailed all the info off to him yesterday and admitted I was completely correct and they've a new cable for me to collect later this afternoon. Happy days! Depending on what cable they give me.

It's really bizarre they would stick a 50 amp sticker on the charger.

Shame they won't supply a 3 phase cable that's just mean, 3 phase leads are not cheap having said that I would not part with my 3 phase lead in a hurry, charging at 11 Kw makes a big difference the only issue we have now is that the AC points are much busier and there are lots more PHEV on the road with tiny batteries addicted to charge points.

The ESB plan to upgrade AC points but I'm not so sure about installing more, I saw last week Blanch AC has been upgraded, that was always dodgy but why couldn't they install 2 AC points ? or even 6 or 7 ? they would be all used, that's a very busy spot.

mp3guy

mp3guy wrote: »

Update: Dealer got back to me after I emailed all the info off to him yesterday and admitted I was completely correct and they've a new cable for me to collect later this afternoon. Happy days! Depending on what cable they give me.

Well there's a result, well done mate, I'm delighted, BMW basically told me to get stuffed !

KCross

mp3guy wrote: »

Update: Dealer got back to me after I emailed all the info off to him yesterday and admitted I was completely correct and they've a new cable for me to collect later this afternoon. Happy days! Depending on what cable they give me.

Cool, interesting that they have the cable ready to go for you. I would have thought the cable was put in at manufacturing time rather than something done by the dealer.

So I guess your earlier picture means it can handle 70-285V per phase rather than its total across the 3 phases. So, its a 3ph charger with a max of 50A.

Ideally you want them to give you a 32A 3ph cable. They might give you a 16A cable which will give you 11kW on 3ph but will only give you 3.6kW on 1ph at home. The cable should be clearly marked.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

It's really bizarre they would stick a 50 amp sticker on the charger.

Shame they won't supply a 3 phase cable that's just mean, 3 phase leads are not cheap having said that I would not part with my 3 phase lead in a hurry, charging at 11 Kw makes a big difference the only issue we have now is that the AC points are much busier and there are lots more PHEV on the road with tiny batteries addicted to charge points.

The ESB plan to upgrade AC points but I'm not so sure about installing more, I saw last week Blanch AC has been upgraded, that was always dodgy but why couldn't they install 2 AC points ? or even 6 or 7 ? they would be all used, that's a very busy spot.

I've said it for ages, they should put 22kW DC chargers at blanch, a bank of 6-7 as you say

mp3guy

Deleted User wrote: »

Well there's a result, well done mate, I'm delighted, BMW basically told me to get stuffed !

What a piss take. Wouldn't stand for that myself, rotten customer service.

KCross wrote: »

Cool, interesting that they have the cable ready to go for you. I would have thought the cable was put in at manufacturing time rather than something done by the dealer.

So I guess your earlier picture means it can handle 70-285V per phase rather than its total across the 3 phases. So, its a 3ph charger with a max of 50A.

Ideally you want them to give you a 32A 3ph cable. They might give you a 16A cable which will give you 11kW on 3ph but will only give you 3.6kW on 1ph at home. The cable should be clearly marked.

Yeah I'll be on the look out for this when I collect it. He said he had a chat with their EV technician on site in the workshop and he agreed I was correct so I'm assuming he understands this.

ELM327

ELM327 wrote: »

I've said it for ages, they should put 22kW DC chargers at blanch, a bank of 6-7 as you say

Even better but would likely cost a lot more.

ELM327

Deleted User wrote: »

Even better but would likely cost a lot more.

Not really, 22kW DC is surprisingly cheap once you have the power in.
Also, they could charge for it.

alanowx

Forgive my ignorance here but if car charge socket has actual pins - as opposed to blank openings - in the lower 2 of the 7, L2 & L3 in the photo, can one then assume that the car is 3 phase compatible. (Not referring here to the very bottom 2 pins for DC CCS charging).

Likewise would this logic also apply to the cable.


Image and data below taken from this webpage
https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/3-phase-euro-series-charging-cable-type-2-to-type-2.html



Thanks

mp3guy

alanowx wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance here but if car charge socket has actual pins - as opposed to blank openings - in the lower 2 of the 7, L2 & L3 in the photo, can one then assume that the car is 3 phase compatible. (Not referring here to the very bottom 2 pins for DC CCS charging).

Likewise would this logic also apply to the cable.

Image and data below taken from this webpage
https://evcables.co.uk/index.php/3-phase-euro-series-charging-cable-type-2-to-type-2.html


Thanks

This was another hunch I had it was 3 phase, but honestly the entire thing is so opaque I had to go through all this hassle to check. Nothing Hyundai official online, in the manual or under the hood actually says it's 3 phase definitively. Would it be that difficult for them to even print it on the OBC?