Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

sphinxicus

mp3guy wrote: »

It's non-standard with most domestic installs and most suppliers wouldn't entertain it.

If you've ever seen a rural house with a 16A generator port outside for power cuts it would work the same way, there'll be a big massive isolator switch ahead of the main fuse board that can either be set to draw power from the ESB (+ solar), or from the generator (or solar), or no power at all (kill switch). The added complexity with solar is running a dedicated line from your inverter into that isolation switch. More advanced systems could do this automatically for true uninterrupted power, but that's very rare (and probably very expensive).

At least, this is my understanding.

Thanks for that! I've seen the whole fancypants setup that tesla provides with its powerwalls and gateway2 which auto isolates your house from the mains and that certainly is ridiculously priced! I wouldnt be fussed about the auto switching function, just the ability to still make use of the panels/battery when the mains is out would be great.

The whole grid-tied part of not being able to charge your battery/make use of the panels when the grid is down (unless i completely mis-understand) is a shame.

idc

sphinxicus wrote: »

Did you specifically ask for this power cut failover switch or was it offered as a unique selling point? It would definately be something that would peak my interest with the regular power cuts we suffer from

Yes, i did ask initially as didn't get the point of having solar pv + battery and not able to use it because the grid was down. One company offered manual switch for whole house, another company would only quote after they had a chance to have electrian check out my fuseboard. One offered 2-3 dedicated sockets without extra cost.

One company's sales man didn't even seem to understand what happens when the grid is down! He then rang engineer to ask, i could hear both sides of conversation and from that knew to run a mile of them!

sphinxicus

idc wrote: »

Yes, i did ask initially as didn't get the point of having solar pv + battery and not able to use it because the grid was down.

My feelings exactly

idc wrote: »

One company offered manual switch for whole house, another company would only quote after they had a chance to have electrian check out my fuseboard.

I think i can see how this setup would end up being pricey after reading mp3guy's response. If the hybrid inverter is the limiting factor of what can be supplied back to the house, then my uneducated electrical mind assumes that for whole house coverage, one would require inverters on all batteries so that they can feed your (now isolated) house with a higher peak supply directly without having to go through the hybrid inverter.

idc wrote: »

One company's sales man didn't even seem to understand what happens when the grid is down! He then rang engineer to ask, i could hear both sides of conversation and from that knew to run a mile of them!

Thats class. Almost spat my coffee over the keyboard reading that

mp3guy

sphinxicus wrote: »

The whole grid-tied part of not being able to charge your battery/make use of the panels when the grid is down (unless i completely mis-understand) is a shame.

Probably a combination of lack of expertise, laziness and "I'm alright, Jack". The solutions are out there, but it doesn't fit the copy and paste installations some suppliers want, in and out same thing over and over.

tails_naf

Does someone have a dummies guide to the AC backup feature of the hybrid inverters? For example the solis 5kw single phase inverter mentions it has AC backup. I assume this means that if the grid goes down the system can continue to run the house until the battery drains. When this happens it will of course not export to the grid for safety, is thst the case?

I had heard that in this scenario thst the panels themselves may be auto disconnected so at most the house can be supplied by whatever is left in the battery. Is thst true, are there options here to allow the solar to run fully until the grid is back on?

mp3guy

tails_naf wrote: »

Does someone have a dummies guide to the AC backup feature of the hybrid inverters? For example the solis 5kw single phase inverter mentions it has AC backup. I assume this means that if the grid goes down the system can continue to run the house until the battery drains. When this happens it will of course not export to the grid for safety, is thst the case?

I had heard that in this scenario thst the panels themselves may be auto disconnected so at most the house can be supplied by whatever is left in the battery. Is thst true, are there options here to allow the solar to run fully until the grid is back on?

Are you talking about one of these? https://static.solartricity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Solis-Hybrid-off-grid-inverter.pdf

It will not run the house. The inverter has two AC outputs, one is the main grid side output, the other is the "back-up" output, separate connections.

The Solis can output up to 3kW on this back-up output, even if the inverter is more powerful than that. So you could power TVs, laptops, lights, but wouldn't want to boil the kettle, run electric showers, the dishwasher/washing machine/dryer, electric hob/oven etc...

Most installers will offer to either hook up a couple sockets that draw only from this back-up output or maybe a sub-board.

So it is never even connected to the grid for it to be able to feed in.

Something more "non-standard" would be required to get the operation you want. I'm actively trying to determine what that is.

tails_naf

mp3guy wrote: »

Are you talking about one of these? https://static.solartricity.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Solis-Hybrid-off-grid-inverter.pdf

It will not run the house. The inverter has two AC outputs, one is the main grid side output, the other is the "back-up" output, separate connections.

The Solis can output up to 3kW on this back-up output, even if the inverter is more powerful than that. So you could power TVs, laptops, lights, but wouldn't want to boil the kettle, run electric showers, the dishwasher/washing machine/dryer, electric hob/oven etc...

Most installers will offer to either hook up a couple sockets that draw only from this back-up output or maybe a sub-board.

So it is never even connected to the grid for it to be able to feed in.

Something more "non-standard" would be required to get the operation you want. I'm actively trying to determine what that is.

Yes, thats the one. So it sounds like there are 2 seperate circuits, the backup one that I must select a subset of my sockets to work on, and the main one? That's a bit of a pain.

mp3guy

tails_naf wrote: »

Yes, thats the one. So it sounds like there are 2 seperate circuits, the backup one that I must select a subset of my sockets to work on, and the main one? That's a bit of a pain.

That's par for the course, or so it seems.

I'm investigating a manual solution that involves using a changeover switch similar to the operation of a portable generator, so I can swap my entire fuse board over to the PV / battery system's backup feed and hard cut the route back to the grid in powercut scenarios.

Something like this: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/KMT5B37I.html

championc

mp3guy wrote: »

That's par for the course, or so it seems.

I'm investigating a manual solution that involves using a changeover switch similar to the operation of a portable generator, so I can swap my entire fuse board over to the PV / battery system's backup feed and hard cut the route back to the grid in powercut scenarios.

Something like this: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/KMT5B37I.html

I'm thinking I could use this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3enEGXv_TTk

tails_naf

championc wrote: »

I'm thinking I could use this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3enEGXv_TTk

Thats very good, so it looks like it's possible, but would there be legal implications? I guess a big manual 3 pole switch / isolation would seem easier to prove its safe. Food for thought though. I'd guess these would need to be 80A breakers at least?

graememk

tails_naf wrote: »

Thats very good, so it looks like it's possible, but would there be legal implications? I guess a big manual 3 pole switch / isolation would seem easier to prove its safe. Food for thought though. I'd guess these would need to be 80A breakers at least?

Its a mechanical interlock, so it physically cant switch one without disconnecting the other,

mp3guy

mp3guy wrote: »

First quote, more to come;

12.2kW system
36 Qcell 340W panels (25 year warranty)
2x 5kWp SolaX inverters (10 year warranty)
2x 5.8kWh SolaX batteries (10 year warranty)
Solar iBoost hot water heater
Zappi car charger
Power cut switch over

€23,150.4 after grant.

Second quote:

10.2kW system
32 Solitek Solid Pro Glass-Glass 320W panels (87% performance after 30 years warranty, sea mist resistant).
1x SolaX X1 Hybrid 5kW inverter (10 year warranty)
1x SolaX X1 Boost 5kW inverter (10 year warranty)
2x SolaX Triple Power 6.3kWh batteries (10 year warranty)
Eddi hot water diverter
Zappi car charger
Changeover switch for whole house backup power during grid outage.

€21,838 after grant.

So marginally less PV power, but slightly more battery capacity. Big difference for me is the panels, I live near the coast and experience low sea mists on occasion.

tails_naf

Does anyone have a good reference for a PV calculator to input your longitude/latitude and roof orientation so I could estimate where best to put the panels?

I thought my back roof was south facing, but looking on the Eircode map its more south-east - so thinking half on the south and half on the adjacent roof part (south-west) facing may be best, but would like to confirm with a calc

Caspero

Looking for PMs with recommendations on a company that could provide a quote in the Limerick area

6kW system
340w panels
Inverters
Battery (open to recommendations on size)
Optional: hot water diverter
EV car charger. Preferably one that can do 22kw as I think we'll be able to get a 3 phase supply.

garo

tails_naf wrote: »

Does anyone have a good reference for a PV calculator to input your longitude/latitude and roof orientation so I could estimate where best to put the panels?

I thought my back roof was south facing, but looking on the Eircode map its more south-east - so thinking half on the south and half on the adjacent roof part (south-west) facing may be best, but would like to confirm with a calc

See the PV performance thread. I just posted one there.

championc

tails_naf wrote: »

Does anyone have a good reference for a PV calculator to input your longitude/latitude and roof orientation so I could estimate where best to put the panels?

I thought my back roof was south facing, but looking on the Eircode map its more south-east - so thinking half on the south and half on the adjacent roof part (south-west) facing may be best, but would like to confirm with a calc

Maximize gains when you need the most power - so for 99% of people, this will be around teatime and onwards. So you should get the most benefit from any here moreso than SE. Saving to battery loses about 20% so you want to use power as it's generated where possible.

If you go with SE and SW, make sure that these are on separate strings into an inverter - NEVER combine them

rx8

Caspero wrote: »

Looking for PMs with recommendations on a company that could provide a quote in the Limerick area

6kW system
340w panels
Inverters
Battery (open to recommendations on size)
Optional: hot water diverter
EV car charger. Preferably one that can do 22kw as I think we'll be able to get a 3 phase supply.

PM sent.

pablot

Hi all,
I'd appreciate any feedback you have on the quote below. East-west orientation

- 6 X Longi 355 watt panels
- 2kw single string inverter
- Wifi stick
- Installation

(no battery or water heating)
5,500 Inc Vat (ex grant of 1800) so €3,900 (inc VAT inc Grant +BER of 200)

Thanks in advance

championc

@irishchris clear your PM's mailbox

idc

mp3guy wrote: »

That's par for the course, or so it seems.

I'm investigating a manual solution that involves using a changeover switch similar to the operation of a portable generator, so I can swap my entire fuse board over to the PV / battery system's backup feed and hard cut the route back to the grid in powercut scenarios.

Something like this: https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/KMT5B37I.html

My installer fitted 3 position switch see image. Top position is normal grid connection to/from esb. But switching to bottom puts inverter into UPS mode and isolates house from the esb connection. Can use solar and/or battery while in UPS mode.

garo

pablot wrote: »

Hi all,
I'd appreciate any feedback you have on the quote below. East-west orientation

- 6 X Longi 355 watt panels
- 2kw single string inverter
- Wifi stick
- Installation

(no battery or water heating)
5,500 Inc Vat (ex grant of 1800) so €3,900 (inc VAT inc Grant +BER of 200)

Thanks in advance

Terrible price! Is this from EI? Any reason why you are going for only six panels? Is it planning permission? If so, feel free to ignore it.

unkel

pablot wrote: »

Hi all,
I'd appreciate any feedback you have on the quote below. East-west orientation

- 6 X Longi 355 watt panels

As garo said, that's a very bad quote

Those Longi panels are good though, their latest offering and fresh off the boat from China. I have a load of them, installed over the last few weeks.

pablot

garo wrote: »

Terrible price! Is this from EI? Any reason why you are going for only six panels? Is it planning permission? If so, feel free to ignore it.

Thanks for getting back.
No, not from EI. A company in Dublin. Believe it or not, the cheapest i have gotten from 3 (although one was for double that from a national provider and i nearly fell off my chair). Its a 3 bed semi in dublin. The reason why six panels is because of velux windows front and back and that's the max i could fit up there. If you had any recommendations, id love to hear.

MAULBROOK

tails_naf wrote: »

Does anyone have a good reference for a PV calculator to input your longitude/latitude and roof orientation so I could estimate where best to put the panels?

I thought my back roof was south facing, but looking on the Eircode map its more south-east - so thinking half on the south and half on the adjacent roof part (south-west) facing may be best, but would like to confirm with a calc

suncalc.net
Its basic but i think it will help

Caspero

garo wrote: »

Is it planning permission? If so, feel free to ignore it.

Could you expand on this garo please? Wouldn't they be exposed to a nasty neighbour complaining if they ignore it? Then the council comes in and tells them take everything down?

DrPhilG

Caspero wrote: »

Could you expand on this garo please? Wouldn't they be exposed to a nasty neighbour complaining if they ignore it? Then the council comes in and tells them take everything down?

That happened to a lady in Limerick. The council told her to take them down, she fought them and won.

Doubt there'd be too many councils willing to take that fight in the future, and doubt there too many doing it even before the Limerick case.

I didn't get planning, but I did ensure that I met the requirements.

championc

All indications too that the greens will get their way and increase the limits.

E30M3

DrPhilG wrote: »

That happened to a lady in Limerick. The council told her to take them down, she fought them and won.

Doubt there'd be too many councils willing to take that fight in the future, and doubt there too many doing it even before the Limerick case.

I didn't get planning, but I did ensure that I met the requirements.

You probably need to clarify this Phil when you say you 'ensured you met the requirements' so as not to confuse users. Which requirements did you meet, you aren't planning exempt with the number of panels installed? Do you mean the SEAI Grant requirements rather than planning requirements?

irishchris

championc wrote: »

@irishchris clear your PM's mailbox

Just did it, apologies hadn't realised was full

DrPhilG

E30M3 wrote: »

You probably need to clarify this Phil when you say you 'ensured you met the requirements' so as not to confuse users. Which requirements did you meet, you aren't planning exempt with the number of panels installed? Do you mean the SEAI Grant requirements rather than planning requirements?

Sorry, I obviously had to meet the SEAI grant requirements as failing to do so could be very expensive!

I also made sure I met the Donegal council planning requirements which are actually much stricter than the SEAI ones.

SEAI for example says that panels must be 25cm from the top and bottom of the roof, and 50cm from each side. Donegal council I believe says 50cm top, bottom, left and right.

Now if I went 2 panels high on the garage, I'd only have 23.5 or so spare top and bottom. Every installer I got a quote from was prepared to go ahead, even though this would technically have left me with a potential grant failure. Even though who were accepting only the net amount with the grant being claimed back by them so presumably this isn't something that is strictly enforced.

However I wasn't prepared to take the chance on not being planning compliant, (even though I didn't actually apply). I will apply retrospectively, I just wasn't prepared to wait the 4+ months that I heard it would take.

This worked out well for me though. My original plan was to put 18 panels on the garage roof. 2 rows of 9.

In order to meet the council planning limits, I had to limit that to 1 row, so 9 max on the garage. So I ended up increasing to 20 panels overall and putting 11 on the house. That has resulted in particularly good generation, with the west facing house panels still drawing up to 1kw right until sundown which during the longest days of the year will mean nearly 15+ hours of generation. My best day so far was August 8th (2 hours less daylight than June 21st) when I produced 35.8kWh. So I could potentially break 40kWh on a perfect day.

I've only had my install since the end of July so the next 10 months will be a learning experience.