Why not have another GE

Mike_C

So FF say they won’t talk to SF because they said they would pre election. They also said they wouldn’t go back into gov with FG. The numbers therefore don’t add up for any minority gov so why not just call election no 2 now......see if the people really want change

Ubbquittious

Mike_C wrote: »

So FF say they won’t talk to SF because they said they would pre election. They also said they wouldn’t go back into gov with FG. The numbers therefore don’t add up for any minority gov so why not just call election no 2 now......see if the people really want change

Let them come up with something. Cant have FFG throw the decision back at us because they decided of their own volition to exclude SF

Could be like Nice/Lisbon all over again

_Brian

It’s likely we’re heading to another GE.

The spread of seats is too much combined with parties excluding deals with SF.

Another election will let the public roll the dice again most likely providing more seats to one side or the other.

It’s possible FF are posturing to try strengthen their hand dealing with SF, much the same way SF went and talked to all the left before approaching FF, it’s just posturing before actual dealing takes place.

Even if some cobbled together mix of right and left get into government I can’t see it lasting Past the next budget anyway. So it’s either GE now or in a few months time.

The people have spoken. They don’t know what they want either. Doubt a rerun would help.

James Brown

Mike_C wrote: »

So FF say they won’t talk to SF because they said they would pre election. They also said they wouldn’t go back into gov with FG. The numbers therefore don’t add up for any minority gov so why not just call election no 2 now......see if the people really want change

Because the people spoke. It just didn't suit FF/FG who refuse to even talk about forming a government.
I get they might have their own mandate but no FG'er voted for FF the last time and that's what they got for 'stability'. Remember 'stability'? seems 'stability' is only needed if it suits FF/FG. So much for 'stability'.

CtevenSrowder

Bowie wrote: »

Because the people spoke. It just didn't suit FF/FG who refuse to even talk about forming a government.
I get they might have their own mandate but no FG'er voted for FF the last time and that's what they got for 'stability'. Remember 'stability'? seems 'stability' is only needed if it suits FF/FG. So much for 'stability'.

There would be no stability with a FG/SinnFein government. Many feel FF/SF would collapse aswell. The only alternative is a leftwing alliance which can't happne or FF/FG.

I'd take the latter.

woohoo!!!

There'll be another election, but the nicieties have to be observed, otherwise one risks the wrath of an electorate who are no mood for cute hoors party first shenanigans.

mickdw

I don't get why SF think they have a right to government now. FF have more seats and are not crying that it's their turn.
Let SF off. If they can pull a crew together - good for them, if not, someone else might.
Surely FF and FG will talk, do a little side deal with a few independents then sit back and watch SF fail to gather the numbers. FF and FG likely then going together with independents to form a gov where SF failed.
Another election might favour SF so FF won't want that. That said, if SF continue with the IRA nonsense, their big vote will quickly vanish.

dxhound2005

woohoo!!! wrote: »

There'll be another election, but the nicieties have to be observed, otherwise one risks the wrath of an electorate who are no mood for cute hoors party first shenanigans.

Or every four and five seater should do like Tipperary and Kerry and return two independents. Cute hoors everywhere would be just the job.

can we not try and do what Belgium did and go without a government for a few months?

It's not like the useless bastards did anything anyway.

James Brown

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

There would be no stability with a FG/SinnFein government. Many feel FF/SF would collapse aswell. The only alternative is a leftwing alliance which can't happne or FF/FG.

I'd take the latter.

I'd rather no FF/FG at all but we got the results so that's not happening. They all need be adults and try hash out a middle ground in regards of the results we got when the people voted. You can't keep rolling the dice hoping you'll get a result you prefer, believe me after FG and FF before them, it would have been nice.
I'm hoping this does serious damage to FF/FG.

Edgware

Does anyone seriously think that the parties want another election?"
Plenty scope there for a coalition.
Let them all act the flute for a few weeks and it will fall into place.

flazio

mickdw wrote: »

I don't get why SF think they have a right to government now. FF have more seats and are not crying that it's their turn.
Let SF off. If they can pull a crew together - good for them, if not, someone else might.
Surely FF and FG will talk, do a little side deal with a few independents then sit back and watch SF fail to gather the numbers. FF and FG likely then going together with independents to form a gov where SF failed.
Another election might favour SF so FF won't want that. That said, if SF continue with the IRA nonsense, their big vote will quickly vanish.

Only one and it's the Ceann Comhairle. So it doesn't really count. I reckon we might get FG prop a confidence and supply minority coalition of FF and the Greens. SF still cannot be trusted with the Ministries of Defence and Justice.

CtevenSrowder

Bowie wrote: »

I'd rather no FF/FG at all but we got the results so that's not happening. They all need be adults and try hash out a middle ground in regards of the results we got when the people voted. You can't keep rolling the dice hoping you'll get a result you prefer, believe me after FG and FF before them, it would have been nice.
I'm hoping this does serious damage to FF/FG.

And you think SF will move to the middle ground do you?

Personally, from a slefish view-point, I'd love this left wing alliance to form as it'd be an absolute cluster ****. Can you imagine PBP being in a position to make actual decisions! Nothing would be better for both FG and FF.

dxhound2005

Edgware wrote: »

Does anyone seriously think that the parties want another election?"
Plenty scope there for a coalition.
Let them all act the flute for a few weeks and it will fall into place.

The strange thing is that as soon as that happens the opposition will be hell bent on causing another election. Motions of No Confidence all over the place.

James Brown

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

And you think SF will move to the middle ground do you?

Personally, from a slefish view-point, I'd love this left wing alliance to form as it'd be an absolute cluster ****. Can you imagine PBP being in a position to make actual decisions! Nothing would be better for both FG and FF.

Yes I do and they all should. FF/FG are the only brats refusing to even talk.

CtevenSrowder

Bowie wrote: »

Yes I do and they all should. FF/FG are the only brats refusing to even talk.

Fair enough. I don't think they will. But sure we will see.

dxhound2005

Bowie wrote: »

Yes I do and they all should. FF/FG are the only brats refusing to even talk.

The vote was on Saturday and the counting finished on Monday. Give them a chance. They managed the process in two months last time, while SF sat on the sidelines doing nothing.

Grab All Association

mickdw wrote: »

I don't get why SF think they have a right to government now. FF have more seats and are not crying that it's their turn.
Let SF off. If they can pull a crew together - good for them, if not, someone else might.
Surely FF and FG will talk, do a little side deal with a few independents then sit back and watch SF fail to gather the numbers. FF and FG likely then going together with independents to form a gov where SF failed.
Another election might favour SF so FF won't want that. That said, if SF continue with the IRA nonsense, their big vote will quickly vanish.

SF had the highest first preference vote exceeding the quota in most of the constituencies they ran in. Majority of FF were elected on transfers. They won the same number of seats. The Ceann Comhairle is automatically re-elected.

It’s evident that the people who voted for them really don’t care about the past. As someone said today, Mary Lou could kick a cat through a fan and she’d still get elected on the first count.

bilbot79

Sinn Fein would field more candidates and get more seats right?

Stewball

woohoo!!! wrote: »

There'll be another election, but the nicieties have to be observed, otherwise one risks the wrath of an electorate who are no mood for cute hoors party first shenanigans.

It's all about making it look like the other guys caused it.

The campaign for the next election is already on!

Guy:Incognito

Bowie wrote: »

Yes I do and they all should. FF/FG are the only brats refusing to even talk.

They said before the election they wouldn't be talking to SF. Now people moan that they are sticking to what they said.
The election was held with everyone in full knowledge those 2 parties said they wouldn't be dealing with SF.

"We want politicians to stick to their word, except when it suits us"

Iscreamkone

The maths won’t allow a SF + others.
SF + FG is non runner
SF + FF is a possibility with Green support
FG + FF with green support is probably the easiest government to form as policy issues are not insurmountable.
Whichever government is formed they’ll say... the people have spoken

Plumbthedepths

The last thing any of the politicians want particularly those that barely scrapped in, is another election.
A plague on all your houses would be the outcome.

citysights

Edgware wrote: »

Does anyone seriously think that the parties want another election?"
Plenty scope there for a coalition.
Let them all act the flute for a few weeks and it will fall into place.

That’s what I think too, surely they’ll sort something out. The last thing people would want is another general election. Didn’t it take them ages to form a government too after the last election in 2016. It seems a bit of a mess now though.

Grab All Association

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The last thing any of the politicians want particularly those that barely scrapped in, is another election.
A plague on all your houses would be the outcome.

That would be them all except most of SF, the greens and the Independents

dxhound2005

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The last thing any of the politicians want particularly those that barely scrapped in, is another election.
A plague on all your houses would be the outcome.

If they are people of principle they will put that urge for self preservation to one side, and let the electorate get the Change they really want.

Grab All Association

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If they are people of principle they will put that urge for self preservation to one side, and let the electorate get the Change they really want.

No Fianna Fáiler would walk away from the trough that easy. They aren’t people of principle.

They have family and friends lined up to be appointed to this board and that board

James Brown

dxhound2005 wrote: »

The vote was on Saturday and the counting finished on Monday. Give them a chance. They managed the process in two months last time, while SF sat on the sidelines doing nothing.

I was answering a direct question regarding another election. Take it easy.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They said before the election they wouldn't be talking to SF. Now people moan that they are sticking to what they said.
The election was held with everyone in full knowledge those 2 parties said they wouldn't be dealing with SF.

"We want politicians to stick to their word, except when it suits us"

I know. They also said on FF, 'we were all nearly eating out of bins' before entering into a deal with them.
Being brats isn't good enough, how ever far in advance.
What if we get the same result? Go again?

dxhound2005

Grab All Association wrote: »

No Fianna Fáiler would walk away from the trough that easy. They aren’t people of principle.

But they seem to be sticking to their promise that they would not go into government with SF. And getting criticised for standing by their principles.

James Brown

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But they seem to be sticking to their promise that they would not go into government with SF. And getting criticised for standing by their principles.

You realise you are suggesting FF have 'principles'.
It's self preservation. They're worried the surviving civil war families will leave them if they do. Which is fair enough, but it ain't no principles

dxhound2005

Just on a general note. There have been much bigger movements in voting patterns in the past. This latest one is being made out to be somehow unique. It is different for the fact that SF have arrived as a third force.

But back in the 1980's before they were on the scene (when they did not recognise the Dáil as a legitimate assembly) there were three elections within the space of 18 months to finally settle matters. So another election would not be unprecedented.

Mike_C

Mike_C wrote: »

So FF say they won’t talk to SF because they said they would pre election. They also said they wouldn’t go back into gov with FG. The numbers therefore don’t add up for any minority gov so why not just call election no 2 now......see if the people really want change

So it's decided. We'll have another Mass.

Dampsquid

There is no benefit of FG propping up a FF/Greens gov with a confidence and supply arrangement. They will get punished at the next election if there is no improvement to housing/health, and will not get any credit if there is improvements.

They need to go into government to make a difference, and to implement policies that people voted them in for.

FF thought they were doing the country a favour last time, but were tarred with the same brush for FG failures at the election.

I can't see any other outcome other than back to the polls in 6 weeks

STB.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Just on a general note. There have been much bigger movements in voting patterns in the past. This latest one is being made out to be somehow unique. It is different for the fact that SF have arrived as a third force.

But back in the 1980's before they were on the scene (when they did not recognise the Dáil as a legitimate assembly) there were three elections within the space of 18 months to finally settle matters. So another election would not be unprecedented.

SF are running away with themselves. The centre right parties have 73 seats between the two of them.

The biggest movement in this election has actually been missed. The Greens had a 500% increase in seats over 2016.

The 15 extra seats that SF gained over 2016 is directly connected to the demise of the Labour Party, who were seen as a safe coalition partner when people got sick of pick your centre right party in the past. That was until they went into government in 2011 and broke all their promises. They lost 31 seats in 2016. Labour now have approx 15% of what seats they had in 2011.

Change is just a word. Capability is another.


SF don't have the numbers. There will not be a second election.

dxhound2005

Dampsquid wrote: »

There is no benefit of FG propping up a FF/Greens gov with a confidence and supply arrangement. They will get punished at the next election if there is no improvement to housing/health, and will not get any credit if there is improvements.

They need to go into government to make a difference, and to implement policies that people voted them in for.

FF thought they were doing the country a favour last time, but were tarred with the same brush for FG failures at the election.

I can't see any other outcome other than back to the polls in 6 weeks

If SF got 50 or 55 seats they would likely be taking some from other Left TD's who came in on SF transfers. That would still see them having to get a collection of others to make up the numbers. I would need to examine every constituency to see what are the chances. Could they go for three in Donegal, in Cavan/Monaghan and in Louth?

James Brown

The good thing is even together FF/FG can't form a government. It bodes well for the possibility of a healthy democratic future.

dxhound2005

Bowie wrote: »

The good thing is even together FF/FG can't form a government. It bodes well for the possibility of a healthy democratic future.

We could be heading the way of Israel, which has a vibrant democracy.

joe40

The only solution to the impasse is a FF FG coalition with smaller party support.
They big parties however, want to avoid this for their own party political reasons rather than for the good of the country.

James Brown

dxhound2005 wrote: »

We could be heading the way of Israel, which has a vibrant democracy.

Is that a joke? Have you got a problem with the electorate having more viable options than FF/FG in the future?

dxhound2005

joe40 wrote: »

The only solution to the impasse is a FF FG coalition with smaller party support.
They big parties however, want to avoid this for their own party political reasons rather than for the good of the country.

And if they arrive at this solution, some people will say that the big parties did it for party political reasons, rather than for the good of the country.

James Brown

dxhound2005 wrote: »

And if they arrive at this solution, some people will say that the big parties did it for party political reasons, rather than for the good of the country.

So damned if they do, damned if they don't, so may as well be grown ups. What happened to 'stability'?

dxhound2005

Bowie wrote: »

Is that a joke? Have you got a problem with the electorate having more viable options than FF/FG in the future?

Other countries have democracies which get results like we got. Governments are formed and they come and go. Nothing wrong with it. And if it means the complete disappearance of FF and FG which you seem to want, so be it.

Spanish Eyes

If say FFG get together, then MM will be TS. That seems to be all he wants.

Grand let him have his day in the sun. But there are issues to be solved pronto.

Could be a good thing at the end of the day. Take the wind out of SF and Left sails and FF/FG try to do what SF say they can do in a week lol.

Interesting times ahead.

Sad that SF this time around won't have to put their money where their mouths are though. Continue to snipe from the sidelines. Bet there will be sighs of relief though if they do not have to play Senior Hurling in Gov.

Sir Oxman

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

They said before the election they wouldn't be talking to SF. Now people moan that they are sticking to what they said.
The election was held with everyone in full knowledge those 2 parties said they wouldn't be dealing with SF.

"We want politicians to stick to their word, except when it suits us"

And that immeasurably helped SF achieve the most votes and 37/42 seats.
It only appealed to their bases and even then not all of it, not the floating voter.

WealthyB

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Bet there will be sighs of relief though if they do not have to play Senior Hurling in Gov.

I cant take any more sporting parlance, whether its half time on Brexit, Senior Hurling, balls in other people's courts and leaders taking the ball and running with it... and while I'm here can anyone find this plate everyone is supposed to step up to

dxhound2005

WealthyB wrote: »

I cant take any more sporting parlance, whether its half time on Brexit, Senior Hurling, balls in other people's courts and leaders taking the ball and running with it... and while I'm here can anyone find this plate everyone is supposed to step up to

Backstop. That was another one.

Sir Oxman

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Just on a general note. There have been much bigger movements in voting patterns in the past. This latest one is being made out to be somehow unique. It is different for the fact that SF have arrived as a third force.

The difference is there is nothing seat wise between the three parties.
Labour in 92 and 2011 were by far the junior party.
Also, winning the national vote is game changing.
But this shift, if it is a permanent shift won't be tested until the next election for sure.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

But back in the 1980's before they were on the scene (when they did not recognise the Dáil as a legitimate assembly) there were three elections within the space of 18 months to finally settle matters. So another election would not be unprecedented.

Yes, I don't understand the horror of another election coming from some quarters.
It's not unusual here and it's not unusual elsewhere.

Jinglejangle69

Sinn Féin get plaudits for sticking to their absenteeism of Westminster up north and not breaking promises to their voters.

Now FF and FG do it and SF supporters are outraged.

Couldn't make up the hypocrisy.

Its mind boggling.

Plumbthedepths

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If they are people of principle they will put that urge for self preservation to one side, and let the electorate get the Change they really want.

I'm not being smart but self preservation once a seat is secured is all that matters to a politician. You only have to look at the behaviour of FG candidates in Mayo prior to the election. A return to the polls will be avoided at all costs.
If you feel that is not the case Paddy Power will be happy to take your money.

Plumbthedepths

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Sinn Féin get plaudits for sticking to their absenteeism of Westminster up north and not breaking promises to their voters.

Now FF and FG do it and SF supporters are outraged.

Couldn't make up the hypocrisy.

Its mind boggling.

Just wondering but do you know why they abstain?