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Which Hybrid/PHEV?

  • 12-02-2020 10:16am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ButtUcks


    Currently I have a 2015 Audi A6 2.0D Estate 190bhp Ultra Sport Line, which has loads of space and is really quick ;)

    My Mon-Fri commute is from Rush County Dublin, to the top of O’Connell Street, which is approx. 30k each way.

    I set off from Rush at 6am and most mornings I’m at work by 6.40.
    This includes driving on country roads to M1, M1 to Whitehall and then traffic all the way to O’Connell St.
    Leaving work at 4pm, I can arrive at the Drumcondra/Whitehall junction at around 4.40pm (car-park like traffic, bumper to bumper) and be home for between 5pm to 5.20pm

    Over the weekend I could do a minimum of 100k bringing kids to/from sports etc.
    On average I’m doing 400k per week, spending €50 to €60 on diesel.

    I haven’t a bogs notion regarding hybrid’s, PHEV’s etc so, based upon my commuting etc, what car & engine type would suit my needs??


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,818 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    You don't mention it in your post, but do you regularly / ever do trips of well over 100 km? What's your budget (including what you would get for your Audi) and what type of car do you require, does it have to be an estate again?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 ButtUcks


    Thanks unkel for getting back to me.
    unkel wrote: »
    You don't mention it in your post, but do you regularly / ever do trips of well over 100 km? What's your budget (including what you would get for your Audi) and what type of car do you require, does it have to be an estate again?

    Trips 100k+ : maybe once a month, more than that during the Spring & Summer

    Budget: 10k+Audi (won't be buying new)

    Body Type: Prefer estates but saloon's/hatchbacks would be ok too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    Would you not be better leaving the car at home and getting the train? no matter what car you get you will still be sitting in traffic for a huge amount of time....

    In terms of car, you have an A6 which is bigger than most cars. Anything you move to will be smaller. Now I done the jump from A6 down to eGolf and it was ok. But you do miss the size of the A6.

    Your probably not wanting to go down years so a 2016 Outlander might be a good option. Fairly big and would give you the option of doing 30km on battery alone. The build quality is not as good as an Audi but they are a decent car and high spec.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,818 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    ButtUcks wrote: »
    Budget: 10k+Audi (won't be buying new).

    How much is the Audi worth in a private sale, so how much would your budget be?

    If you rarely do long trips, you might consider a pure EV. The benefits are considerable over a PHEV. Massive fuel savings, almost zero maintenance, cheap tax, cheap tolls, zero emissions.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 ButtUcks


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Would you not be better leaving the car at home and getting the train? no matter what car you get you will still be sitting in traffic for a huge amount of time....

    In terms of car, you have an A6 which is bigger than most cars. Anything you move to will be smaller. Now I done the jump from A6 down to eGolf and it was ok. But you do miss the size of the A6.

    Your probably not wanting to go down years so a 2016 Outlander might be a good option. Fairly big and would give you the option of doing 30km on battery alone. The build quality is not as good as an Audi but they are a decent car and high spec.

    Thanks Shefwedfan.

    Afraid my dodgy back couldn't take the strain of standing in a train.

    My wife has an estate too so no probs in getting a golf (5dr) or A3 etc etc

    I'm more flummoxed with the engine type to be honest ( cost savings, pros/cons of hybrid/petrol/diesel plugin hybrid, full EV etc etc- -
    I've no notions at all at all re this...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭ Heres Johnny


    10k plus Audi brings you very close to a 2017 BMW 530e and into a big selection of 330e no problem.......I assume driving an A6 you will want something nice to move into

    If you really want a PHEV I think the 530e is the car for you

    However, if you are doing it to save money then dont bother, you won't

    10k to save 50 euro a week is a 200 week payback period or 4 years before you break even and you wont save 50 a week anyway, more like 20 or 30 at best

    Making it a 10 year payback period...........

    If you want to do it to change your car because you want a new car then go for it

    I did think about changing my A6 for a 530e but I am not really ready to change yet and I have gone off the 530e as a cost saving exercise so I am hust going to change when I feel like I am done with the Audi


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    ButtUcks wrote: »
    Thanks Shefwedfan.

    Afraid my dodgy back couldn't take the strain of standing in a train.

    My wife has an estate too so no probs in getting a golf (5dr) or A3 etc etc

    I'm more flummoxed with the engine type to be honest ( cost savings, pros/cons of hybrid/petrol/diesel plugin hybrid, full EV etc etc- -
    I've no notions at all at all re this...


    If you have a second car then I wouldn't move to hybrid. Your wasting your time and money. I have a full electric(eGolf) and a PHEV(Outlander).



    Really to drop down from an Audi you are going to have to stay in something with a nice interior. As mentioned I went into eGolf and then bought a newer one recently. Apart from eGolf you could look at Tesla but would be outside your budget


    Have a look at Leaf etc, but I think you will find the drop down is too far. I know I did.



    To give you idea, I had A6, was doing huge mileage and it was great. Moved house and I was going from D15 into D4 everyday. Thing was burning diesel. Based on calculations for year 1 I would have spent circa 1500 euro in diesel and in the eGolf I spent 300 quid on electricity. All home charging. These are averages and not a huge amount of science


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    Any available socket available at work for charging? The BMW 530e won't do the 60km round trip on battery alone in winter but would, one way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭ Heres Johnny


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    If you have a second car then I wouldn't move to hybrid. Your wasting your time and money. I have a full electric(eGolf) and a PHEV(Outlander).



    Really to drop down from an Audi you are going to have to stay in something with a nice interior. As mentioned I went into eGolf and then bought a newer one recently. Apart from eGolf you could look at Tesla but would be outside your budget


    Have a look at Leaf etc, but I think you will find the drop down is too far. I know I did.



    To give you idea, I had A6, was doing huge mileage and it was great. Moved house and I was going from D15 into D4 everyday. Thing was burning diesel. Based on calculations for year 1 I would have spent circa 1500 euro in diesel and in the eGolf I spent 300 quid on electricity. All home charging. These are averages and not a huge amount of science

    For balance can I ask you if you changed just to save on fuel or because you wanted to change?

    And how much did you pay to get into the egolf from the A6?

    I have conveniently left out environmental concerns too, which is fine if you want to lower your own carbon footprint


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 ButtUcks


    So going Hybrid route isn't worth it

    Therefore full electric, such as eGolf / Passat GTE or PHEV's like the Outlander is what I should focus on.

    Thanks a million


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    For balance can I ask you if you changed just to save on fuel or because you wanted to change?

    And how much did you pay to get into the egolf from the A6?

    I have conveniently left out environmental concerns too, which is fine if you want to lower your own carbon footprint


    I change cars typically every 18month - 2 years. So the A6 was due to be swapped. I had bought it when doing serious km's plus I had ample car parking. Not much city driving etc....

    Saving on fuel also because at that stage we had two diesel cars and putting on average about 180 euro diesel into them per week or at least every two weeks for very small mileage


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 ButtUcks


    Kramer wrote: »
    Any available socket available at work for charging? The BMW 530e won't do the 60km round trip on battery alone in winter but would, one way.

    No work charging at the moment, but will look into the 530e


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,818 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Passat GTE is PHEV

    eGolf is full electric

    But indeed if I were you I would look into getting full electric, if the biggest drawback of EVs (doing long trips beyond the range of the car) is not an issue for you because you have another car

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,961 ✭✭✭✭ Shefwedfan


    ButtUcks wrote: »
    So going Hybrid route isn't worth it

    Therefore full electric, such as eGolf / Passat GTE or PHEV's like the Outlander is what I should focus on.

    Thanks a million


    Ok you have three types which can confuse


    Hybrid(typically Toyota/Lexus): Very small battery, very limited on what range they can do on battery only(1-2km), if you go over 40kmph will kick in petrol etc. You do not have to plug in


    PHEV or Plug in Hybrid(Outlander etc): Have normally a circa 10kWh battery. Can do circa 30km on battery before it has to use the petrol engine. Then will run in hybrid mode like a Toyota above. You need to plug these in to charge the battery


    Electric: Full electric with no combustion engine to back up. Hybrid and PHEV have a petrol engine. Needs to be plugged in to charge, fast chargers available around Ireland provided by a number of suppliers. VW/BMW(Ionity) and Tesla have their own network.


  • Registered Users Posts: 34 ButtUcks


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Ok you have three types which can confuse


    Hybrid(typically Toyota/Lexus): Very small battery, very limited on what range they can do on battery only(1-2km), if you go over 40kmph will kick in petrol etc. You do not have to plug in


    PHEV or Plug in Hybrid(Outlander etc): Have normally a circa 10kWh battery. Can do circa 30km on battery before it has to use the petrol engine. Then will run in hybrid mode like a Toyota above. You need to plug these in to charge the battery


    Electric: Full electric with no combustion engine to back up. Hybrid and PHEV have a petrol engine. Needs to be plugged in to charge, fast chargers available around Ireland provided by a number of suppliers. VW/BMW(Ionity) and Tesla have their own network.

    Shefwedfan: That's exactly what I needed, now this total numpty has a clearer understanding - cheers


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    ButtUcks wrote: »
    Shefwedfan: That's exactly what I needed, now this total numpty has a clearer understanding - cheers

    Mild hybrid can achieve 65 to 70 mpg in ideal conditions around town and lower speed roads. Older hybrids won't deliver this so overall savings could be minimal compared to the capital car cost.

    Phev seems attractive but if you journey suits the elec component and you have a second car why not just go full electric?

    I would either hang on to the nice car you have or consider a leaf or ioniq for cost savings. Your mileage and usage patterns seems to be ideal.

    If your thinking of changing of course. Always cheaper not to buy any new car....


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    ButtUcks wrote: »
    So going Hybrid route isn't worth it

    Therefore full electric, such as eGolf / Passat GTE or PHEV's like the Outlander is what I should focus on.

    Thanks a million

    If you are leaning towards PHEV and considering you're coming from an A6 estate I think the Merc C350e would fit the bill nicely.

    It is a PHEV and needs to be plugged in so work charging would be a bonus as you would be running in electric mode for the majority of your commute.

    As an example...
    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-c350e-hybrid-estate-beige-leather/24196561

    Although what you've described suggest a full-electric is a better choice but you would have to give up the estate requirement in that case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭ VUDuo2


    KCross wrote: »
    If you are leaning towards PHEV and considering you're coming from an A6 estate I think the Merc C350e would fit the bill nicely.

    It is a PHEV and needs to be plugged in so work charging would be a bonus as you would be running in electric mode for the majority of your commute.

    As an example...
    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-c350e-hybrid-estate-beige-leather/24196561

    Although what you've described suggest a full-electric is a better choice but you would have to give up the estate requirement in that case.

    A cracker and certainly an option to consider subject to charging at work been available


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,465 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    May I suggest the Volvo V60 PHEV D6.

    2.4 Turbo Diesel
    Estate
    285bhp
    472 lb/ft torque
    AWD
    Low VRT (depends on model/year)
    Low NOx (€180)
    Low road tax (€170)

    Get around 30km on full electric.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,365 ✭✭✭ Wildly Boaring


    Unless changing the car anyway those phevs not going to do much for you.

    Save 1000 a year and spend 20k to do it??

    You're spending what 3000, 3500 a year on diesel?

    EV seems perfect for your situation.
    Do the commute and the weekend stuff.
    Long as you can charge at home.

    Changing anyway? PHEV or even diesel again if the initial costs make sense.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭ sgalvin


    Saving will depend on your commute.
    I have a 60 km return commute and only charge once a day.

    Over the last month I have done a trip back from Dublin/cork, commuted to and from work and some longer runs.
    1,200 miles, 2,000 km for 44 litres of petrol.

    But I agree that one car can be fully electric. Our other car is a Leaf and I just wasn’t prepared to spend more that €20k on mine so went down the PHEV route.

    Unless changing the car anyway those phevs not going to do much for you.

    Save 1000 a year and spend 20k to do it??

    You're spending what 3000, 3500 a year on diesel?

    EV seems perfect for your situation.
    Do the commute and the weekend stuff.
    Long as you can charge at home.

    Changing anyway? PHEV or even diesel again if the initial costs make sense.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    I don’t see the op saving any money on a. Weekly commute unless he goes full electric.

    The motorway driving and distance involved mean most PHEV will be in petrol mode for most of the trip in and all of the trip home. Then he’s spending 10k to get into it.

    If the sole reason for change is money saving, keep the Audi.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    sgalvin wrote: »
    Saving will depend on your commute.
    I have a 60 km return commute and only charge once a day.

    Over the last month I have done a trip back from Dublin/cork, commuted to and from work and some longer runs.
    1,200 miles, 2,000 km for 44 litres of petrol.

    But I agree that one car can be fully electric. Our other car is a Leaf and I just wasn’t prepared to spend more that €20k on mine so went down the PHEV route.

    What make is your phev and your commute, is it country roads, motorway, city traffic?

    I am for electric cars, but I think its a big ask for the OP to switch to one, when he is unsure of the difference between the 3 choices.

    If he goes hybrid, then he will notice no difference from his Audi,(maybe slightly lower fuel bill)

    if he goes for a phev, I believe he will cut his fuel bill down to 20 - 30 euro a week, more if work charging.

    He moves to electric, then his commute is covered, but it will require planing in advance of his weekend trips, i.e charge Friday night to make sure you can do your 100 km.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,287 ✭✭✭ n97 mini


    kceire wrote: »
    I don’t see the op saving any money on a. Weekly commute unless he goes full electric.

    The motorway driving and distance involved mean most PHEV will be in petrol mode for most of the trip in and all of the trip home. Then he’s spending 10k to get into it.

    If the sole reason for change is money saving, keep the Audi.

    Same. If the Mon-Fri commute can't be done on electric you're eating into the single biggest potential saving.


  • Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭ JohnnyMustang22


    KCross wrote: »
    If you are leaning towards PHEV and considering you're coming from an A6 estate I think the Merc C350e would fit the bill nicely.

    It is a PHEV and needs to be plugged in so work charging would be a bonus as you would be running in electric mode for the majority of your commute.

    As an example...
    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/mercedes-benz-c350e-hybrid-estate-beige-leather/24196561

    Although what you've described suggest a full-electric is a better choice but you would have to give up the estate requirement in that case.

    I am currently assessing PHEV options also. From what i have read the C350e has a very low range on charge. In Winter some drivers are only gettting 10 miles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,177 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    I am currently assessing PHEV options also. From what i have read the C350e has a very low range on charge. In Winter some drivers are only gettting 10 miles.

    Its not great for range as far as PHEV's go. It is a big car and has quite a small battery (5kWh usable, I think). If you blast that at 120km/h on the motorway you might even be lucky to get 10km's on it.

    The battery helps for the short commutes (shop, schools, etc)


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,530 ✭✭✭ whippet


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Same. If the Mon-Fri commute can't be done on electric you're eating into the single biggest potential saving.

    that is why we've gone for the PHEV - the wife will have the car during the week .. max 25km a day between school run and errands ... she works from home full time and I am usually working from home 3-4 days a week. i'll keep my oil burner until it dies.

    With the PHEV we get EV power during the week along with the freedom of a decent ICE car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭ eamondunphy


    I've a 162 merc c350e that i'm considering selling as i have the itch for a full electric car.

    Its great for 20kms non stop battery if using for short commutes, i'll also get from tallaght to blanch or dundrum one way on the motorway without using petrol.

    I also occasionally drive to places like cork, belfast etc and get 6.1l/100km from an empty battery which is about 46 mpg which i find to be very good considering its a near 300hp car with a 2litre petrol engine.

    I work about 4km from home so rarely use petrol monday to friday, it's for this type of use that a hybrid is perfect,

    The car is great to drive and much better interior than nearly all full electrics and other hybrids, which i think people sometimes forget when thinking about whether to go full electric


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,530 ✭✭✭ whippet


    And that is the crux of the issue for me .. there isn’t a full EV which appeals to me ... maybe the Model S .. but if I was forming out 100k+ on a car .. it wouldn’t be a Tesla either !!

    With the PHEV I get a 280bhp BMW and option of running as an EV most of the time


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  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭ MorganIRL


    Hi OP sorry to reopen this just wondering did u go buy any of the suggestions.. looking to change our car set up at the mo.. have a leaf and an X5, looking to sell both and get 1 car, Passat phev, or equivalent. We do a lot of miles towing a caravan during the summer, hence phev for towing. But during the week I do 40km commute to work with charging at work. So just outside phev limitations.



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