Right of way in residential area

briany

If I'm driving down a residential road (30 k/h limit) where there are cars parked on my left, such that I will have to move into the middle to overtake them, what's the protocol if I see a car coming towards me in the opposite direction. I mean, I know that I certainly should not proceed if the oncoming car is already in that narrowed section of road, but how far away is far enough for the oncoming car from the row of cars on my left such that I should proceed? Is this a judgement call I have to make each time?

Cordell

Right of way is not a thing here, it's only found in continental Europe (white/yellow rhomboid sign).
So both need to use their judgment

MascotDec85

Cordell wrote: »

Right of way is not a thing here, it's only found in continental Europe (white/yellow rhomboid sign).
So both need to use their judgment

Right of way is specifically stated in the Road Traffic Laws in the Irish Statute Book. Also, Yield signs sometimes just say “Yield” but often say “Yield Right of Way”

Edit: There’s also a whole section devoted to Right of Way on the test sheet.

MascotDec85

OP, in the situation you describe it will depend entirely on where both oncoming cars (yours and theirs) are in relation to the parked car.

If you move out to pass the parked car on your side of the road you must do so without causing the oncoming car to slow down or come to a stop.

You could literally approach the parked car 3 different times and deal with it in 3 different ways. Don’t bully your way through. As you’re going onto the other side of the road them the oncoming car has priority/right of way. Only pass if it’s safe to do so.

Cordell

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Right of way is specifically stated in the Road Traffic Laws in the Irish Statute Book. Also, Yield signs sometimes just say “Yield” but often say “Yield Right of Way”

Edit: There’s also a whole section devoted to Right of Way on the test sheet.

Yes, but there is no situation in which you are given the right of way, only situations in which the others need to yield the right of way to you - subtle but important difference imho.

MascotDec85

Cordell wrote: »

Yes, but there is no situation in which you are given the right of way, only situations in which the others need to yield the right of way to you - subtle but important difference imho.

That’s just semantics tbh.
If driver (A) MUST give way to another (B) then (B) has the right of way over (A). However, if driving defensively we must always be prepared for someone to do something they shouldn’t.

Cordell

It's more like setting a mindset that just semantics - you are never given the absolute right of way, you can see the difference in the continental Europe, where cars that have the right of way (via the priority / right of way sign) will be much more aggressive in taking advantage of it than here.

MascotDec85

I’m sorry but it’s about being very clear about things. This is why when arriving at crossroads for example, drivers often let others go out of sequence and it turns into a free for all.

Going back to the OP’s question the Road Traafic Act states:

9.—(1) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) if to do so would endanger, or cause inconvenience to, any other person.

(2) A driver shall not overtake (or attempt to overtake) unless he can clearly see a portion of the roadway which—

(a) is free from approaching traffic, pedestrians and any obstruction, and

(b) is sufficiently long and wide to permit the overtaking to be completed without danger or inconvenience to other traffic or pedestrians.

Cordell

I beg to differ in regards to crossroads. In continental Europe they have yield and priority signs on each cross road (both without traffic lights, and with them as a fallback), so one stream of cars will go through with little regards to the crossing traffic because they see the priority sign which they consider it to be equivalent to having the green light, and this means very few cars on the crossroad go through, and also means accidents. So being very clear about things is not always the best.
IMHO the system here and the 4 way stop they have in the states is better.

But this has very little to do with the OP question In that situation there is no clear rule in practical terms, it he cars were to collide then it's almost guaranteed to share the liability equally.

MascotDec85

Cordell wrote: »

I beg to differ in regards to crossroads. In continental Europe they have yield and priority signs on each cross road (both without traffic lights, and with them as a fallback), so one stream of cars will go through with little regards to the crossing traffic because they see the priority sign which they consider it to be equivalent to having the green light, and this means very few cars on the crossroad go through, and also means accidents. So being very clear about things is not always the best.
IMHO the system here and the 4 way stop they have in the states is better.

But this has very little to do with the OP question In that situation there is no clear rule in practical terms, it he cars were to collide then it's almost guaranteed to share the liability equally.

I’m not talking about Continental Europe, I’m talking about Ireland. The rules are clear here but often people using the junctions are unclear or let other people go when in fact they should be going. It then causes confusion over time.

In terms of the OP’s question the traffic law, which I posted above, is unambiguous.

dsmythy

Judgement each time unfortunately. For both drivers. All the good judgement in the world is useless if the other driver just plods along regardless even if you made the right decision that the path was clearer for you. Then you have the whole who is going to reverse showdown.

Slow down on approach to the situation. Look for outs in the line of cars, areas where space could be created for two cars to pass. Could even be one car in the line has its wheels on the kerb for example giving that extra gap. See this and you can be a bit more assertive in proceeding.

So yeah it depends.

L1011

MascotDec85 wrote: »

Also, Yield signs sometimes just say “Yield” but often say “Yield Right of Way”

The sign can have "Yield", "Yield Right of Way" or "Géill Slí" on it - there is absolutely no difference to its legal meaning. Its still RUS 026 in legislation regardless. I suspect you know/intended this, but it wasn't entirely clear if someone else saw the text and assumed it meant a difference.

MascotDec85

L1011 wrote: »

The sign can have "Yield", "Yield Right of Way" or "Géill Slí" on it - there is absolutely no difference to its legal meaning. Its still RUS 026 in legislation regardless. I suspect you know/intended this, but it wasn't entirely clear if someone else saw the text and assumed it meant a difference.

That’s exactly what I meant.

MascotDec85

From the Driving Testers Guildlines:

“Right of Way
An applicant should yield the Right of Way as required while moving off, overtaking, changing lane, at junctions, at roundabouts, turning right and turning left, or a fault may be recorded for ‘Right of Way’ as appropriate....”

Marcusm

briany wrote: »

If I'm driving down a residential road (30 k/h limit) where there are cars parked on my left, such that I will have to move into the middle to overtake them, what's the protocol if I see a car coming towards me in the opposite direction. I mean, I know that I certainly should not proceed if the oncoming car is already in that narrowed section of road, but how far away is far enough for the oncoming car from the row of cars on my left such that I should proceed? Is this a judgement call I have to make each time?

You will, if you are a good driver, develop an ability to scan ahead of you identifying the places where each of you can give way where there are gaps in the parked cars. Consideration is the key to making progress for everyone. Disappointingly many drivers merely see it as an opportunity to gain (fleeting) advantage rather than co-ordinating what is effectively a dance down the road as you each scoot in and out of available refuges.

tinytobe

wrong posting, sorry.

Buddy Bubs

I believe the more expensive, newer car gets right of way.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526947#Comment_123526947

It's done on alphabetical order by manufacturer.

Audis have the ultimate right of way followed by BMW and so on.....

A bit of cop on is required. Core bit is if you are moving across the road you are almost always in the wrong if another car is coming towards you on their side. This should help to establish how best to proceed.

alias no.9

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526947#Comment_123526947

Or alternatively, the bigger and most likely to protect it's occupants or even the one that's already wrecked and further damage will go unnoticed… Roll the dice

Buddy Bubs

Just common sense required, the housing estate my parents live in is like this on the front road, i usually hang back and let a few past unless flashed to proceed

prawnsambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526994#Comment_123526994

I'm afraid it's Alfas go first. Audis have to give way to Italian flair.

Notmything

As it was taught to me years ago, if in that scenario if by moving to overtake/pass a parked car I'm going to impede an oncoming car then I let them proceed and when the way is clear I can then proceed, if that makes sense.

csirl

You have right of way on your own side of the road. If you have to cross to the other side of the road to overtake parked cars, any oncoming traffic has right of way. It the OPs scenario you only overtake the parked cars if the way is clear. Any oncoming traffic, you wait until it passes

looksee

Slightly similar situation when you find someone(s) stopped on a bend - this happens regularly on the Waterford Copper Coast at one beach where a long row of cars park on one side of the road, forcing traffic to pull over into the only available lane which is actually on a bend in the road. There is not the slightest possibility of seeing anything coming and all you can do is drive slowly and hope that anything approaching is also going slowly. I don't think there has been an accident yet, and the gardai have been on occasion and ticketed all the parked cars, but any fine summer weekend it happens.

I had a similar situation last week when I found a large tanker and a van in my lane, facing me, on a corner, on a narrow road. Two guys sitting in the cab, possibly broken down, but they were making no attempt to direct traffic. Again, all you could do is pull round them slowly and hope you don't turn out to be the test case.

CalamariFritti

Typically whoever has an obstacle on their side of the road - in this case parked cars - should yield in such a situation. Of course if youre already on the way before you see the oncoming car its not practical to back off.

Most of the time people use good judgement sometimes they're ignorant and bully through.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/112524133#Comment_112524133

On the continent there are plenty of junctions with no lights and no signs typically smaller roads in residential areas. The continent doesnt do 'estate housing' much so I'm talking public but small roads.

On such junctions the rule 'right before left' is in place. Meaning if two cars arrive at such junction at the same time you have to yield to a car to your right.

I dont think Ireland has such a rule but if it did it would probably be reversed as 'left before right'?

In the US you often see in such places all 4 roads having a stop sign and the idea is drivers seek eye contact and agree between themselves who goes first.

Different rules everywhere. Of course this is nothing to do with the OPs questions as you already said.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123527138#Comment_123527138

"In the US you often see in such places all 4 roads having a stop sign and the idea is drivers seek eye contact and agree between themselves who goes first."

The cat goes first

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYbnJEgZNFg

extra-ordinary_

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123526947#Comment_123526947

I'd say definitely the opposite…the newer more expensive car driver is usually the more cautious, and will let me blast through in my banger 🙂

OP…if your side of the road is blocked then you yield to oncoming traffic, if both sides are equally blocked then you yield if the oncoming vehicle has already entered the narrow section and they have nowhere to pull into to let you pass if you advanced - so basically, whoever gets into the narrow section first has right of way.

Cordell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123527138#Comment_123527138

Ireland has the same rule, you need to yield to traffic coming from the right if there are no other indicators in place. Yes, even if we're driving on the other side this rule is not reversed.

Now, this is a very rare situation even on continent and you should never assume that the other driver will yield to you.

CalamariFritti

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123527563#Comment_123527563

I didnt know that thanks.

But it is not a very rare situation on the continent at all. And its one of the most basic rules you will learn during lessons over there.

Some of the basic rules are just very different over there. A huge one for example is the thing with pedestrians crossing the road having right of way over a car turning a corner into the road they're crossing.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123527659#Comment_123527659

"A huge one for example is the thing with pedestrians crossing the road having right of way over a car turning a corner into the road they're crossing."

Are you saying pedestrians do not have the right of way on the continent?