GE Exit Poll 10 pm

JohnnyFlash

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Just say it bro. Just say 'the idiots don't know how good they have it and it's all down to us' (not their own hard work)..

Not at all, Tom. The FG message failed. It's didn't resonate with the people. Brexit, and the impacts of same, was the mantra of FG. Rejected.



All democratic parties are well aware of the need for a content and productive working class. Nothing new there. Basic enough stuff I would have thought?

cameramonkey

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Out this evening helping to take down the election posters. Won't be putting them into cold storage... This was followed by a pint-driven meeting of the local FG cumann.

Obviously a very bad result for the party, and there were discussions about how the simple message of economic growth, balanced budgets, financial prudence, and a strong position on the UK/EU post-Brexit trade deal didn't resonate with the electorate.

Thats why you messed up no talk about housing or health because you didnt bother doing anything to improve those sectors.

Yurt2

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It's now time for FG to enter opposition. We are a broad church, and the feeling is that FG's time in Government is over. Consider it the gap year while we go off and try and discover ourselves again.

I love it. Part of me wants me to see the country going back to the polls to witness FG fighting an election asking the electorate to vote for them so they can sit on the ditch and lick their wounds.

If your messaging was bad over the last few weeks surrounding your non-performance on key issues, I can't wait to see what you guys come up with in that circumstance.

Edgware

How long can this country survive without the genius of Noel Rock to guide us?

john9876

If there was another election and SF fielded the perfect number of candidates and their vote held up, how many seats could they get?

JohnnyFlash

cameramonkey wrote: »

Thats why you messed up no talk about housing or health because you didnt bother doing anything to improve those sectors.

Sláintecare
The NCH
More social housing being delivered this year that at any stage in the past 36 years.

Obviously if there was more money then more would have been done. It’s all about the economy stupid. That’s a Bill Clinton quote btw.

Jinglejangle69

Pop in and see the usual SF anti FG supporters outraged that FG won't go into government after years of saying they want FG out of government.

Then remember it's SF and they are bricking it at the thought of having to actually govern the country and make hard decisions.

Have a giggle to myself and exit the page to enjoy my day:)

Yurt2

john9876 wrote: »

If there was another election and SF fielded the perfect number of candidates and their vote held up, how many seats could they get?

It depends on what brought us back to the ballot box. If it is FF / FG obstinacy in refusing the grand coalition after they both hypothetically reject SF as a partner, it will play further into SF's hands.

Bertie the wise was on the Eamon Dunphy podcast the other day and if they they got their fielding strategy right last Saturday, they had the votes to bring home at least another 11 seats.

Yurt2

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Pop in see the usual SF anti FG supporters outraged that FG won't go into government after years of saying they want FG outog Gov.

Then remember it's SF and they are bricking it at the thought of having to actually govern the country and make hard decisions.

Have a giggle to myself and exit the page to enjoy my day:)

Remind us, which is the party trying to tell us they are now the official opposition despite being in a position to be a minority party in government with FF?

Once the media conversation moves to the grand coalition that FG are loathe to take part in, things will get very sticky for FG supporters and all the hot air coming out of their gobs.

FG: The party of responsibility to the party of protest in one short month. Have to hand it to ye lads, it's been a hell of a ride watching you convulse in agony.

McMurphy

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Pop in and see the usual SF anti FG supporters outraged that FG won't go into government after years of saying they want FG out of government.

Then remember it's SF and they are bricking it at the thought of having to actually govern the country and make hard decisions.

Have a giggle to myself and exit the page to enjoy my day:)

Who's doing this?

To be fair you're not the only one saying it, but who's outraged that FG are heading off in a strop?

You just seem to be repeating a narrative with no substance.

Fionn1952

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Out this evening helping to take down the election posters. Won't be putting them into cold storage... This was followed by a pint-driven meeting of the local FG cumann.

Obviously a very bad result for the party, and there were discussions about how the simple message of economic growth, balanced budgets, financial prudence, and a strong position on the UK/EU post-Brexit trade deal didn't resonate with the electorate. There was very broad agreement on the impact the FG party has made to Irish social society - abortion legislation, same sex marriage rights, divorce; a State apology to the victims of laundries, convents, and Mother and Child homes. All delivered under FG lead governments.

It's now time for FG to enter opposition. We are a broad church, and the feeling is that FG's time in Government is over. Consider it the gap year while we go off and try and discover ourselves again.

Hopefully this doesn't get taken up the wrong way, but a bunch of (presumably older) blokes sitting round a few pints talking about how you're great and the voters just don't realise how much you've done for them is pretty nailed on the PR issue that FG have.

Reading your post immediately made me think of this:



On the lead up to the election, having been quite impressed by a few things during FG's time in government (being from the North originally, Brexit negotiations were of particularly high important to me) I was certainly considering giving them a mid-high preference on my ballot.

The RIC faux pas knocked them down a few spots, but Leo's statements afterwards where he essentially blamed the public for not being mature enough just snapped me right back to sticking them down near the bottom. Same old FG, 'we know better because we are better' arrogance (from the party, not you personally).

Edgware

john9876 wrote: »

If there was another election and SF fielded the perfect number of candidates and their vote held up, how many seats could they get?

Theres a few ifs there. They had some big surpluses but it would still take some management of the vote. O Broin and Ward did it in Dublin but it might not be possible in every constituency. Certainly all things being equal they would get at least six. Then who is going to lose. Soc Dems PBPs. It mightnt change the left right balance too much.
It would show the other left groupings Sinn Féin's true intentiond

Yurt2

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Same old FG, 'we know better because we are better' arrogance (from the party, not you personally).

There's a fair amount of that going on among the FG rank and file as well to be fair.

pjohnson

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Pop in and see the usual SF anti FG supporters outraged that FG won't go into government after years of saying they want FG out of government.

Then remember it's SF and they are bricking it at the thought of having to actually govern the country and make hard decisions.

Have a giggle to myself and exit the page to enjoy my day:)

Yeah that makes no sense still but its adorable.

Fionn1952

Yurt! wrote: »

There's a fair amount of that going on among the FG rank and file as well to be fair.

I'd prefer to avoid painting with too broad of a brush. Plenty of FG voters in my work and social circle who I certainly wouldn't attribute that attitude to. I feel a lot more comfortable commenting on the party image rather than individual supporters.

LeinsterDub

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It's now time for FG to enter opposition. We are a broad church, and the feeling is that FG's time in Government is over. Consider it the gap year while we go off and try and discover ourselves again.

No mention of housing, health, climate or transport. You'll be on a gap decade with this sort of denial

limnam

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Sláintecare
The NCH
More social housing being delivered this year that at any stage in the past 36 years.

Obviously if there was more money then more would have been done. It’s all about the economy stupid. That’s a Bill Clinton quote btw.

If you're wasting hundreds of millions on things like Irish water or increasing your loans by a few billion to attempt to fool your voters. You will have less money to spend on things like hosuing.


Come off it Johnny.

This is it

McMurphy wrote: »

Who's doing this?

To be fair you're not the only one saying it, but who's outraged that FG are heading off in a strop?

You just seem to be repeating a narrative with no substance.

You haven't seen anyone here moaning about FG being OK with being in opposition?

I'm on my phone now but I'll easily find a few posts later if you need me to.

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Pop in and see the usual SF anti FG supporters outraged that FG won't go into government after years of saying they want FG out of government.

Then remember it's SF and they are bricking it at the thought of having to actually govern the country and make hard decisions.

Have a giggle to myself and exit the page to enjoy my day:)

Who's 'outraged'?

I'm just satisfied that they can never again point the finger at anyone else deciding that being a part of a particular government is not for them.

I also think it is just Leo keeping the attention on himself and playing political games.
He'll go into government if it is the politically expedient thing to do.

Yurt2

This is it wrote: »

You haven't seen anyone here moaning about FG being OK with being in opposition?

I'm not moaning about it, but I'm certainly enjoying the opportunity to highlight that Fine Gael are gleefully scampering off to the opposition benches with a paper bag over their collective heads hoping no one approaches them to be a junior party in government.

Party of responsibility, of Collins, of competency and the national interest. All looking like pretty feeble taglines for this bunch.

LeinsterDub

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Sláintecare
The NCH
More social housing being delivered this year that at any stage in the past 36 years.

Obviously if there was more money then more would have been done. It’s all about the economy stupid. That’s a Bill Clinton quote btw.

Sláintecare wasn't their idea and they are dragging their feet on it
The NCH is massively over budget, you claim their wasn't money but they discovered a money tree for the NCH
FG's definition of social is to build housing so they can pump more money into HAP.

McMurphy

Just listening to Newstalk here, and the commentator reckons they've been out and about talking with various independents and getting their views on any notion of entering a coalition involving the shinners and other left leaning party's


The general consensus seems to have been that many wouldn't have any issue whatsoever, though some said they wouldn't be prepared to enter a coalition involving Sinn Fein, but just as many said absolutely no way would they want to get involved in any coalition involving the greens due to their involvement in govt the last time.


A toxic green party. There you have it.

Yurt2

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'd prefer to avoid painting with too broad of a brush. Plenty of FG voters in my work and social circle who I certainly wouldn't attribute that attitude to. I feel a lot more comfortable commenting on the party image rather than individual supporters.

That's fair, it's not every member of FG.

But, I think it's not an unreasonable statement to say that Leo's leadership style and rhetoric cultivated and encouraged some of the less attractive aspects of the party culture.

McMurphy

This is it wrote: »

You haven't seen anyone here moaning about FG being OK with being in opposition?

I'm on my phone now but I'll easily find a few posts later if you need me to.

The only people I see "moaning" about them not being back in govt are their supporters.

You're mixing up people giving out at their steadfast determination to walk away with the ball without trying to even think about a possible role they could play in shaping the outlook of the next govt.

This is it

McMurphy wrote: »

The only people I see "moaning" about them not being back in govt are their supporters.

You're mixing up people giving out at their steadfast determination to walk away with the ball without trying to even think about a possible role they could play in shaping the outlook of the next govt.

No, there's no mix up. FG were voted out, sent packing, kicked to the kerb apparently. When they say fair enough, we'll head to the opposition sidelines you hear the outrage, how dare they...

Edit, to add, if you're reading any of the various Threads it's there to be seen. You're willfully ignoring them for whatever reason. I'll fire some up later.

Plumbthedepths

Looks like FG can't even land the lead opposition party title, FF going to steal their thunder.
Keep the posters handy lads and lasses. GE mark 2 unless they cop on and grow up.




https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-now-on-the-brink-as-howlin-is-first-leader-to-fall-38952700.html

Yurt2

This is it wrote: »

No, there's no mix up. FG were voted out, sent packing, kicked to the kerb apparently. When they say fair enough, we'll head to the opposition sidelines you hear the outrage, how dare they...

Their enthusiasm to do so when coalition permutations haven't shaken out yet would make you wonder about their self-stated appetite to take responsibility. No party commands a majority and you'd think people who entrusted their vote to FG would like expression given to their interests in Leinster House to the maximum extent possible.

As I said, when and if FF decide they won't play ball with SF (FWIW I think this coalition option is the least worst for the country at the moment), all eyes will be back on FG leadership and the public will be scratching their heads why they're heading back to the national school with their ballot papers because FG wont swallow their pride and take the junior role in government.

Further electoral punishment will come their way if that comes to pass.

McMurphy

This is it wrote: »

No, there's no mix up. FG were voted out, sent packing, kicked to the kerb apparently. When they say fair enough, we'll head to the opposition sidelines you hear the outrage, how dare they...

Again.

Who.

Is.

Saying this?

How do you think the electorate will look on FG/FF if they refuse to either:

go into govt together, with one or two more small party's.

Or go into coalition with SF either in a SF/FG/any other (s) or FF/SF/any other(s)

The numbers are not there for a broad left coalition, I repeat the numbers are not there, so it has to be one of the 3 scenarios.

We seen how the public reacted when they tried to lock them out of the debates as if they weren't even worth considering, if they work in unison, or separately to try and lock them out of govt, or else form one themselves, they won't respond any more favourably imo.

So I hate to break it to you - but it's one of the above or back to the polls.

With the likes of Leo/Paschal etc scraping over the lines in vote counts, I don't think a new election will be relished by many in FG or FF.

Both party's got their wings clipped, trying to frustrate the formation of any new govt because the cards didn't land in their favour will do neither any favours.

Loafing Oaf

Yurt! wrote: »

Tall eyes will be back on FG leadership and the public will be scratching their heads why they're heading back to the national school with their ballot papers because FG wont swallow their pride and take the junior role in government.

Further electoral punishment will come their way if that comes to pass.

Where are you getting that FG are taking this line?

Simon Harris says offer of grand coalition with Fianna Fail still stands

The blockage to an FF-FG deal is very much at the other end
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-now-on-the-brink-as-howlin-is-first-leader-to-fall-38952700.html

However, senior frontbench Fianna Fáil TDs, including deputy leader Dara Calleary, Barry Cowen, Darragh O'Brien and Willie O'Dea, are opposed to entering into coalition with either Sinn Féin or Fine Gael.

Yurt2

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Where are you getting that FG are taking this line?

Simon Harris says offer of grand coalition with Fianna Fail still stands

The blockage to an FF-FG deal is very much at the other end
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/election-2020/martin-now-on-the-brink-as-howlin-is-first-leader-to-fall-38952700.html

Whatever the soundbites they throw out to the media to save face, the parliamentary party appear to be clamoring for opposition...


A hard no according to one FG source...



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/diminished-fine-gael-preparing-for-a-period-in-opposition-1.4169178?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fdiminished-fine-gael-preparing-for-a-period-in-opposition-1.4169178



A view has taken hold among members, TDs and defeated candidates that Fine Gael should rebuild and take the opportunity, should it arise, to attack Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin from the opposition benches.
John Paul Phelan, the Minister of State for Electoral Reform, was blunt. Speaking after his re-election as a TD for Carlow-Kilkenny, where Fine Gael TD Pat Deering also lost out, Phelan said a grand coalition is now not an option.

“There will be no grand coalition,” he said. “People wanted change and that is what they voted for. I believe Fine Gael should go into opposition.”
Another party figure said a “hard no” was developing to the prospect of a grand coalition. Party sources also suggested Fine Gael is prepared to position itself as the pro-business party in the Dáil, in contrast to the left-wing policies of Sinn Féin and the centre left positions taken by Fianna Fáil