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When will men get liberated from gender roles?
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One eyed Jack wrote: »You still don’t seem to be able to grasp the concept that people can disagree in their approaches and have different approaches and the advantages and disadvantages or benefits of one or even a number of approaches over your one single-minded approach which for the most part only appears to be concerned with co-opting social issues to promote feminism.
I asked you what has feminism done to address the issue of the rising female suicide rate, and you didn’t answer. Feminism can’t get it’s story straight because it’s trying to be all things to all people, it’s whatever anyone who calls themselves a feminist decides it is. That’s why it’s not going to address anything, because it can’t address anything when feminists can’t even agree among themselves on what issues are a priority for them.
Ah no, I answered the question.about what feminism has done to address the suicide rate amongst men. I said then and I'll say it again now since you did t seem to see it before. I do t expect feminism to do much if anything to address male suicide. I would t expect it to do anything, would you? I expect feminism to mainly focus on women's issues. It would be up to men's lobby groups to advocate to men a issues.
Who gave you the impression feminism would address men's mental health issues?
I Completely agree people people have different opinions. Some people like football some people like totally unrelated things like gardening. You like giving out about feminism, I like the totally unrelated topic of supporting men's issues. I completely agree we have different interests.0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »Ah no, I answered the question.about what feminism has done to address the suicide rate amongst men. I said then and I'll say it again now since you did t seem to see it before. I do t expect feminism to do much if anything to address male suicide. I would t expect it to do anything, would you? I expect feminism to mainly focus on women's issues.
How about answering what I asked you now?One eyed Jack wrote: »I asked you what has feminism done to address the issue of the rising female suicide rate and you didn’t answer.0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »How about answering what I asked you now?
Oh the rising female suicide rate. I missed that. I've no idea what they're doing about that. I'll ask at the next meeting if you like. :P
I didn't know the female suicide rate was rising tbh. What would you want them to do about it and why are you asking me?0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »Oh the rising female suicide rate. I missed that. I've no idea what they're doing about that. I'll ask at the next meeting if you like. :P
I didn't know the female suicide rate was rising tbh. What would you want them to do about it and why are you asking me?
It wasn’t a trick question, I’m asking you what they’re doing about it because I have no idea myself seeing as I don’t see feminists talk about it that much, they seem more interested in promoting feminism among men, at a time when more and more women are questioning what has feminism done for them, and you strike me as someone who has their finger on the pulse when it comes to identifying and addressing social ills. The female suicide rate seems to have flown under your radar somehow -
WHY ARE MORE WOMEN COMMITTING SUICIDE?
The suicide rate among women has increased exponentially for the past 20 years. The burden of trying to do it all just may be the culprit.
What do I want feminists to do about it? Absolutely nothing tbh. As I said earlier - I don’t think they’re capable of doing anything about anything, and therefore I’m not going to hold them responsible for things they haven’t done, nor am I going to give them credit for anything they aren’t responsible for either.
The point I’m making is that feminists of all denominations of the Church of Feminism, appear to be more concerned with promoting themselves and their particular ideas of what feminism means to them, collecting social issues like merit badges they can stick on their social media profiles, and yet that’s one issue that even your good self, wokiest of the woke of social justice types, didn’t appear to be aware of.
Are those women just whinging too?
Again, that’s not a trick question. Your memory can’t be that short that you don’t remember your contributions to the international men’s day thread where you were yet again pointing out that men whose points of view you disagreed with, were only whinging.0 -
One Post Wonder wrote: »Lads, how do I liberate myself from my toxic Masculinity? Shave my legs? Get a vasectomy? Date a transsexual?
Help me out here boys.
There's no hope for you.. because your toxic masculinity can be subconscious... anyway, you have the double whammy of having white male privilege. You're screwed.0 -
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One eyed Jack wrote: »It wasn’t a trick question, I’m asking you what they’re doing about it because I have no idea myself seeing as I don’t see feminists talk about it that much, they seem more interested in promoting feminism among men, at a time when more and more women are questioning what has feminism done for them, and you strike me as someone who has their finger on the pulse when it comes to identifying and addressing social ills. The female suicide rate seems to have flown under your radar somehow -
WHY ARE MORE WOMEN COMMITTING SUICIDE?
The suicide rate among women has increased exponentially for the past 20 years. The burden of trying to do it all just may be the culprit.
What do I want feminists to do about it? Absolutely nothing tbh. As I said earlier - I don’t think they’re capable of doing anything about anything, and therefore I’m not going to hold them responsible for things they haven’t done, nor am I going to give them credit for anything they aren’t responsible for either.
The point I’m making is that feminists of all denominations of the Church of Feminism, appear to be more concerned with promoting themselves and their particular ideas of what feminism means to them, collecting social issues like merit badges they can stick on their social media profiles, and yet that’s one issue that even your good self, wokiest of the woke of social justice types, didn’t appear to be aware of.
Are those women just whinging too?
Again, that’s not a trick question. Your memory can’t be that short that you don’t remember your contributions to the international men’s day thread where you were yet again pointing out that men whose points of view you disagreed with, were only whinging.
Lol. I didn't think it was a trick question. I didn't know women's suicide rates were rising. And I don't know what feminists are doing about it (which follows naturally since i didn't even know it was happening).
It's amusing that you're so intent to discuss feminism. I think you probably spend far more time thinking about feminism than I do. You might have noticed that I haven't tried to promote anything about feminism in this thread. I have mentioned men's issues that I think are important and you have ignored them except to dismiss any concerns about men in family court, you've shown absolutely no interest in discussing any men's issues. Just back to giving out about feminism.
Since you think feminism isn't an effective or influential movement, why do you spend so much time worrying about it?0 -
Deleted User wrote: »There's no hope for you.. because your toxic masculinity can be subconscious... anyway, you have the double whammy of having white male privilege. You're screwed.
100cc's of Soy, Stat!A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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silverharp wrote: »100cc's of Soy, Stat!
Actually, I wonder... if a male did change his gender, would he/she be still considered responsible in the same way that other males are collectively held responsible for sexism? likewise for a female who changed gender to become a male? hmm... interesting.
(I know your reference was to the white thingy, but still...)
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Deleted User wrote: »Actually, I wonder... if a male did change his gender, would he/she be still considered responsible in the same way that other males are collectively held responsible for sexism? likewise for a female who changed gender to become a male? hmm... interesting.
(I know your reference was to the white thingy, but still...)
what interests me is what is the motivation to come up with generalised terms against men? there is no real traction for the term "toxic femininity" even though im sure a list could be compiled.
The 2 groups that use such terms are feminist women, so im guessing they want to displace men as they see men as getting in their way, the second group will tend to be weak men who are frankly too lazy to improve themselves so they adopt a philosophy which suits their mindset?A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer
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El_Duderino 09 wrote: »Lol. I didn't think it was a trick question. I didn't know women's suicide rates were rising. And I don't know what feminists are doing about it (which follows naturally since i didn't even know it was happening).
It's amusing that you're so intent to discuss feminism. I think you probably spend far more time thinking about feminism than I do. You might have noticed that I haven't tried to promote anything about feminism in this thread. I have mentioned men's issues that I think are important and you have ignored them except to dismiss any concerns about men in family court, you've shown absolutely no interest in discussing any men's issues. Just back to giving out about feminism.
Since you think feminism isn't an effective or influential movement, why do you spend so much time worrying about it?
From what you’ve written, it would appear I do spend more time thinking about feminism than you do, I spend more time thinking about lots of things whereas you don’t appear to have given any thought to anything or anyone else whatever apart from yourself.
If you had actually given any thought to fathers rights, you would have been able to demonstrate as I did that in the family courts, it is the rights of children are considered paramount. Fathers and mothers have equal parental rights and responsibilities towards their children in Irish law. Issues regarding access and guardianship and so on are children’s rights as far as I am concerned. I didn’t ignore your pointing out fathers rights as an issue for men. I explained to you quite clearly why I don’t see fathers rights as an issue for men - they have equal rights and responsibilities in law as mothers do already.
In a thread where the question is when will men be liberated from gender roles, it stands to reason that feminism is going to come up as part of that discussion, as the feminist movement throughout its history has concerned itself with the effects of gender roles on women, and the modern mainstream feminist movement has concerned itself with the effects of gender roles on men. I surmise that one of the reasons for that is because a greater number of women have no interest in feminism, precisely because they feel it has done nothing for them, and feminism has nothing to offer them.
I don’t know where you got the impression that I worry about feminism. If anything I gave you every indication that I’m not, yet it appears in just the same way as your bias led you to misread my post as asking what is feminism doing to address the male suicide rate, your bias again is leading you to believe I worry about feminism. Rest assured I have never lost any sleep over the impotence of the feminist movement :pac:
Let me put it to you this way - in the context of things I spend time thinking about, and talking about, and discussing with people, feminism is one of the least thought about or talked about things I‘m interested in offering any legitimacy whatsoever. But, in a thread discussing men being “liberated from gender roles”, for me that’s a question which naturally gives rise to whether or not women have actually been liberated in a society where the idea of “gender as a social construct” as promoted by the earliest feminist movements, has taken something of a beating, and given rise to castigating women as TERFS who disagree with a feminist narrative being driven by men who have “liberated” themselves from their gender roles :pac:0 -
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One eyed Jack wrote: »From what you’ve written, it would appear I do spend more time thinking about feminism than you do, I spend more time thinking about lots of things whereas you don’t appear to have given any thought to anything or anyone else whatever apart from yourself.
If you had actually given any thought to fathers rights, you would have been able to demonstrate as I did that in the family courts, it is the rights of children are considered paramount. Fathers and mothers have equal parental rights and responsibilities towards their children in Irish law. Issues regarding access and guardianship and so on are children’s rights as far as I am concerned. I didn’t ignore your pointing out fathers rights as an issue for men. I explained to you quite clearly why I don’t see fathers rights as an issue for men - they have equal rights and responsibilities in law as mothers do already.
In a thread where the question is when will men be liberated from gender roles, it stands to reason that feminism is going to come up as part of that discussion, as the feminist movement throughout its history has concerned itself with the effects of gender roles on women, and the modern mainstream feminist movement has concerned itself with the effects of gender roles on men. I surmise that one of the reasons for that is because a greater number of women have no interest in feminism, precisely because they feel it has done nothing for them, and feminism has nothing to offer them.
I don’t know where you got the impression that I worry about feminism. If anything I gave you every indication that I’m not, yet it appears in just the same way as your bias led you to misread my post as asking what is feminism doing to address the rising female suicide rate, your bias again is leading you to believe I worry about feminism. Rest assured I have never lost any sleep over the impotence of the feminist movement :pac:
Let me put it to you this way - in the context of things I spend time thinking about, and talking about, and discussing with people, feminism is one of the least thought about or talked about things I‘m interested in offering any legitimacy whatsoever. But, in a thread discussing men being “liberated from gender roles”, for me that’s a question which naturally gives rise to whether or not women have actually been liberated in a society where the idea of “gender as a social construct” as promoted by the earliest feminist movements, has taken something of a beating, and given rise to castigating women as TERFS who disagree with a feminist narrative being driven by men who have “liberated” themselves from their gender roles :pac:
Yeah you spend more time thinking about feminism than I do. Without doubt. And I spend some time thinking about men's issues which is something you seem far less interested in than feminism.
So just for clarity, you said you don't think feminism is either effective or influential, you said you think it's impotent and still you think it's way more worthwhile talking about than any actual issues that effect men.
So even in a thread about MEN and gender roles, you only see it through the prism of feminism. That's genuinely interested. All roads lead to feminism for some you, but not for me.0 -
silverharp wrote: »what interests me is what is the motivation to come up with generalised terms against men?
I think it's to remove the personal angle. Create a block phrase to cover the situations where men are involved, and therefore remove individuality. Feminism is, after all, rooted in Marxism, and 'selective' collective responsibility is a strong theme in associated ideologies.
The part I find interesting is that as feminist ideas are pushed along, and women engage in more expressions of their own freedom, many females are behaving in the manner that feminists supposedly found so offensive in males. Many of the terms created in the last decade can be easily applied to the behavior of many women in public spaces (although I'm sure there's some excuse for women behaving in such a way).there is no real traction for the term "toxic femininity" even though im sure a list could be compiled.
It seems to be growing online especially among youtubers covering the gender/equality debate, and we'e seen how phrases promoted online gain traction in the RL.
Still, I find there's a misplaced sympathy for female issues as if it's only a decade since they gained equality... like we're still living in the early 90s. That people feel the need to give more leeway to women or feminists... that they wouldn't give to males in the same situation. So, perhaps this will just be another double standard to apply where men are responsible but women aren'tThe 2 groups that use such terms are feminist women, so im guessing they want to displace men as they see men as getting in their way, the second group will tend to be weak men who are frankly too lazy to improve themselves so they adopt a philosophy which suits their mindset?
Feminists, and the media. I find the term is more of a stick to beat men with. It's just so vague, allowing them to include just about anything that they find offensive. It's like the metoo campaign. Everything could be included on the same level as the more serious accusations, and that gave them license to behave whatever way they wished. An excuse for mob justice. I see the toxic masculinity as another attempt at validating the same excuses for mob justice.. or believing women simply due to their gender (rather than evidence).
I dunno about the males. I've never actually met a straight male feminist, except for those existing online... and I can't take them seriously. I've met a few gay guys who were feminists but they were extremely feminine gays, so... they're more interested in behaving as a female than as a male. Stands to reason that their views would be biased a certain way.0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »Yeah you spend more time thinking about feminism than I do. Without doubt. And I spend some time thinking about men's issues which is something you seem far less interested in than feminism.
So just for clarity, you said you don't think feminism is either effective or influential, you said you think it's impotent and still you think it's way more worthwhile talking about than any actual issues that effect men.
So even in a thread about MEN and gender roles, you only see it through the prism of feminism. That's genuinely interested. All roads lead to feminism for some you, but not for me.
I never said I thought that. I said feminism was one of the least things I thought about or talked about. I never said anything about how much thought or time I gave to talking about any actual issues that affect men or whether one was more worthwhile talking about than the other.
I don’t know where you got the impression either that in a thread about men being liberated from gender roles, I only see it through the prism of feminism. Examination of gender roles is far more than just a feminist theory, but women’s liberation from gender roles has always been a fundamental issue throughout the history of the feminist movement, and so when the question as to when will men be liberated from gender roles comes up, then the basis for the question does lie in feminist theory, as it is simply the same question applied to men from a modern feminist perspective which appears to be driven primarily by men, while women are being pushed out of the feminist movement and feminists
appear to be more concerned with men’s welfare than addressing issues affecting women.
I don’t think all roads lead to feminism either in the context of gender roles btw, just the road that started out as liberation from gender roles has become something of a ‘yellow prick road’ as it were with men who have liberated themselves from their gender roles, dictating to women how they must be better feminists by being more accommodating to men and being more concerned about men’s welfare, it appears to the detriment of women who appear to have been overlooked by the modern feminist movement. I’m not the least bit surprised that women are abandoning feminism and “liberation from gender roles”, as it’s done nothing for them. In the same way I don’t expect such nonsense will ever be popular among men either.
It’s why I’m not too worried when Emma Watson thinking she’s doing something great by representing feminism and the HeForShe campaign. The campaign was immediately criticised for sidelining and discriminating against men! :pac:
Though the HeForShe campaign has been met with some support and approval, it has also been met with widespread criticism. Some have expressed concerns that the campaign—and particularly the name of it—leaves behind individuals who suffer most from gender inequality, such as non-binary individuals. Some claim that the campaign is inherently sexist for upholding the very gender stereotypes it denounces, demonstrated by the name "He for She," where it is implied the stronger male allies need to step up to defend the more sensitive and victimized women. Some critics also believe that the campaign sidelines or discriminates against men (some detractors have interpreted "HeForShe" to be a veiled grab for female superiority at men's expense disguised as a push for gender equality). Some critics also note that the campaign is run by privileged women of the United Nations who have not had to endure the many struggles of gender inequality that inhibit the majority of those who suffer from it.
HeForShe Campaign
I’d think it were a parody had it not actually happened. Modern feminism is one of the outcomes of some women’s perceived liberation from gender roles, they’ve gone from the frying pan and into the fire, and are still being dictated to by men.0 -
Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.
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One eyed Jack wrote: »I never said I thought that. I said feminism was one of the least things I thought about or talked about. I never said anything about how much thought or time I gave to talking about any actual issues that affect men or whether one was more worthwhile talking about than the other.
I don’t know where you got the impression either that in a thread about men being liberated from gender roles, I only see it through the prism of feminism. Examination of gender roles is far more than just a feminist theory, but women’s liberation from gender roles has always been a fundamental issue throughout the history of the feminist movement, and so when the question as to when will men be liberated from gender roles comes up, then the basis for the question does lie in feminist theory, as it is simply the same question applied to men from a modern feminist perspective which appears to be driven primarily by men, while women are being pushed out of the feminist movement and feminists
appear to be more concerned with men’s welfare than addressing issues affecting women.
I don’t think all roads lead to feminism either in the context of gender roles btw, just....
You said you think feminism is impotent, ineffective, not influential, and in a discussion about MEN and gender roles, all you have talked about is feminism, asking me about female suicide rates and now you want to talk about Emma Watson - a feminist.
I'd love to know, at what point in a discussion about men and men's gender roles, would you think it's sensible to discuss something other than feminism? Lol.0 -
silverharp wrote: »what interests me is what is the motivation to come up with generalised terms against men?
Your post made me remember a vid clip I watched a while back. Although he's talking about movies, and themes, I think it relates to the use of toxic masculinity and other similar phrases.
Just skip to 1.40 (although the whole clip is fun to watch)
https://youtu.be/DmMIkw-dcgM0 -
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You guys do realize, that this thread was a total pi$$ take from the OP, right?
When are men going to "women up"? :pac:
Men don't need to become more feminine and women don't need to become more masculine.
In a well balanced society, both genders tend to do a good job of regulating each others behaviour.
Even in previous eras, where there were less freedoms for women... women were not prevented from being feminine. They were just prevented from pursuing a more varied life - as a human being!
And they haven't become more masculine in these intervening years with increased rights either... just more varied human beings!
And men are not being prevented from being masculine in this era either. It's a myth!
The whole gender war/battle, is a big old load of fake news BS if you ask me... it mostly just exists on social media, pushed by attention seekers with nothing better to be doing than manufacturing controversy! Out in the real world - men and women co-exist with each other very well for the most part. (In the west anyway).0 -
Growing up in Mexico, the women were far from being in feminine roles. They ruled the household and family life. So your post OP has me confused. Is it you want to be respected working in a woman dominated role or to be allowed to wear a dress in public?I know quite a few men in nursing positions here and back home and they are always held in respect.Just confused about what your wanting,or maybe I read too much into it,heh.0
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El_Duderino 09 wrote: »You said you think feminism is impotent, ineffective, not influential, and in a discussion about MEN and gender roles, all you face talked about is feminism, asking me about female suicide rates and now you want to talk about Emma Watson - a feminist.
I'd love to know, at what point in a discussion about men and men's gender roles, would you think it's sensible to discuss sobering other than feminism? Lol.
You appear to want a different conversation than the one that’s occurring here where the conversation is in the context of men’s liberation from gender roles, a concept grounded in feminism due to it’s concern for women’s liberation from gender roles. Of course the role that feminism has or hasn’t played is going to be the central theme of a discussion about liberation from gender roles for either sex, as the idea of being liberated from gender roles originated from an ideology which concerned itself with liberating women from gender roles.
The essence of the question being asked is essentially when will men be liberated from gender roles, implying that feminisms attempt to liberate women from gender roles has been a success and a positive thing for women. I’m questioning the idea that feminisms attempts to liberate women from gender roles has been a success, and whether or not feminisms attempt to liberate women from gender roles has been a positive thing for women. Then we might get to a point where we discuss whether the same theory can be or should be applied to men. We’re not even close to that point yet as we haven’t examined what the effects of feminisms attempts to liberate women from gender roles has done for them.
That’s a question that for me has to be examined before it can be argued that men are missing out on anything, and whether or not a feminist theory is of any benefit to men. Do you think men need to be liberated from gender roles? It’s not something I’ve heard any men’s rights advocates whinging about as you put it. It’s primarily feminists who argue that men need to be liberated from gender roles, and I’m suggesting we examine first how has that theory worked out for women?
Seems prudent to ask that question and seek clarification on the issue, before offering an answer it’s evident you haven’t actually given any thought to.0 -
Ah..come on..that's the kind of amateur psychology you'd expect from the likes of Eldude..0
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One eyed Jack wrote: »You appear to want a different conversation than the one that’s occurring here where the conversation is in the context of men’s liberation from gender roles, a concept grounded in feminism due to it’s concern for women’s liberation from gender roles. Of course the role that feminism has or hasn’t played is going to be the central theme of a discussion about liberation from gender roles for either sex, as the idea of being liberated from gender roles originated from an ideology which concerned itself with liberating women from gender roles.
If feminism is impotent, ineffective, and not influential, why does it need to be discussed in the context of men's gender roles at all? It should be a pretty short conversation since feminism is so ineffective, right?
But no, all you can talk about is feminism. There are actual issues where men are disadvantaged and men could use a lobby group to advocate for those issues. But I suppose we have to chat about Feminism ad nausium first, and their there’s any time left we might actually get around to discussing the causes of the suicide rate amongst men, for example.0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »If feminism is impotent, ineffective, and not influential, why does it need to be discussed in the context of men's gender roles at all? It should be a pretty short conversation since feminism is so ineffective, right?
I’ve explained the reasons to you already - because the theory of liberation from gender roles is rooted in feminist theory. Therefore I think it’s important that we first understand what the idea of liberation from gender roles has done for women, if it has done anything at all, and whether or not gender roles are something women need to be liberated from in the first place as though women are trapped by gender roles, and thereby need liberating by feminism. You still don’t appear to be understanding the point that the conversation is about liberation from gender roles, as it applies to both sexes. In order to talk about whether it is of any benefit to men, we first must have a discussion about whether or not it has been an effective approach to women’s welfare as espoused by the women’s liberation movement.El_Duderino 09 wrote: »But no, all you can talk about is feminism. There are actual issues where men are disadvantaged and men could use a lobby group to advocate for those issues. But I suppose we have to chat about Feminism ad nausium first, and their there’s any time left we might actually get around to discussing the causes of the suicide rate amongst men, for example.
Are you in a hurry or something that you don’t have time to eat your dinner and instead want to skip to dessert? Feel free to bow out of the conversation if your time is that precious, but as far as I’m concerned, before you try and sell anyone the miracle cure of liberation from gender roles as an ailment for social ills, I hope you don’t mind if I ask to examine it’s constituents before I encourage it’s consumption and discover afterwards that you’ve simply been selling snake oil.0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »I’ve explained the reasons to you already - because the theory of liberation from gender roles is rooted in feminist theory. Therefore I think it’s important that we first understand what the idea of liberation from gender roles has done for women, if it has done anything at all, and whether or not gender roles are something women need to be liberated from in the first place as though women are trapped by gender roles, and thereby need liberating by feminism. You still don’t appear to be understanding the point that the conversation is about liberation from gender roles, as it applies to both sexes. In order to talk about whether it is of any benefit to men, we first must have a discussion about whether or not it has been an effective approach to women’s welfare as espoused by the women’s liberation movement.
Are you in a hurry or something that you don’t have time to eat your dinner and instead want to skip to dessert? Feel free to bow out of the conversation if your time is that precious, but as far as I’m concerned, before you try and sell anyone the miracle cure of liberation from gender roles as an ailment for social ills, I hope you don’t mind if I ask to examine it’s constituents before I encourage it’s consumption and discover afterwards that you’ve simply been selling snake oil.
So feminism hasn't been influential, isn't effective and is Impotent, but you want to make that the "dinner" in your analogy.
If it's as rubbish as you say it is, why would you want to spend all night chewing over it before you get to the "desert"? I'm assuming the desert is the point where you would actually move on from talking about how impotent feminism is and actually get to the part about men. Or would you ever get on to talking about men?
Given how little time you have for feminism and how little influence feminism has had, I'd imagine it would be a short conversation.
"Has feminism had an influential role in gender roles?"
"Nope"
"OK. On to the next topic"
But in reality these conversations go round and round about feminism, how dreadful feminism is, how feminism is the biggest issue facing men and how it's also impotent and without influence etc. Rince and repeat.
And at no point has the conversation moved beyond feminism and on to the men's aspect.
Do you think there even is a discussion to be had about liberating men from gender roles?0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »Do you think there even is a discussion to be had about liberating men from gender roles?
Your bias appears to be clouding your judgement of my intent in questioning the idea of liberation from gender roles.
I’m suggesting that we need to examine the concept of whether or not gender roles are even something that people need to be liberated from! In order to do that, we have to examine the origins of the theory. The origins of the theory come from the women’s liberation movement. Then we can discuss the advantages and disadvantages, benefits of the theory or whether the theory has been of any benefit to it’s originally intended audience. Then we could, if you’re not already at that point suffering from indigestion, discuss whether the theory of liberation from gender roles is of any benefit to men, after we have examined how the theory has worked out for women.
In my view, it hasn’t been a very effective approach to addressing issues which affect women, and so on that basis, I don’t see how the theory could be effective in addressing issues which affect men? I don’t think I can be accused of not having thought about it, but if you have some thoughts on it, by all means feel free to share your views and opinions on liberating people from their gender roles.0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »Your bias appears to be clouding your judgement of my intent in questioning the idea of liberation from gender roles.
I’m suggesting that we need to examine the concept of whether or not gender roles are even something that people need to be liberated from! In order to do that, we have to examine the origins of the theory. The origins of the theory come from the women’s liberation movement. Then we can discuss the advantages and disadvantages, benefits of the theory or whether the theory has been of any benefit to it’s originally intended audience. Then we could, if you’re not already at that point suffering from indigestion, discuss whether the theory of liberation from gender roles is of any benefit to men, after we have examined how the theory has worked out for women.
In my view, it hasn’t been a very effective approach to addressing issues which affect women, and so on that basis, I don’t see how the theory could be effective in addressing issues which affect men? I don’t think I can be accused of not having thought about it, but if you have some thoughts on it, by all means feel free to share your views and opinions on liberating people from their gender roles.
OK. So you've explained why you definitely need to start by discussing feminism even though feminism is Impotent and hasn't influenced the topic. You've presumably had a good think about whether there's any merit to the idea of liberating men from gender roles. Have you reached a decision?0 -
El_Duderino 09 wrote: »OK. So you've explained why you definitely need to start by discussing feminism even though feminism is Impotent and hasn't influenced the topic. You've presumably had a good think about whether there's any merit to the idea of liberating men from gender roles. Have you reached a decision?
Are you actually reading my posts? I never said we need to start by discussing feminism. I said we need to start by discussing the the theory of liberation of people from gender roles. I presented plenty of evidence that the theory espoused by feminists has been a dismal failure in serving the interests of women. I’ve already given you my conclusion in the post you just quoted, inviting you to present your own opinions on the theory itself -One eyed Jack wrote: »In my view, it hasn’t been a very effective approach to addressing issues which affect women, and so on that basis, I don’t see how the theory could be effective in addressing issues which affect men? I don’t think I can be accused of not having thought about it, but if you have some thoughts on it, by all means feel free to share your views and opinions on liberating people from their gender roles.0 -
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Peace and long life.
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One eyed Jack wrote: »Are you actually reading my posts? I never said we need to start by discussing feminism. I said we need to start by discussing the the theory of liberation of people from gender roles. I presented plenty of evidence that the theory espoused by feminists has been a dismal failure in serving the interests of women. I’ve already given you my conclusion in the post you just quoted, inviting you to present your own opinions on the theory itself -
Great. So in your opinion, there's nothing to be don't on gender roles. It would have probably been a lot easier to say that than go all rowing the houses with the recreational whinging about feminism.
So the order of discussion was:
1 A question about men and gender roles.
2 a big whinge about feminism
3 Oh no, there was no 3. The end.
So pretty much exactly what I said to begin with.0
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