Carnivore for a fortnight

Zamboni

I am day 5 into a two week trial of a carnivore animal product only diet :eek:
Thought I'd record experience here.
(Haven't been around the fitness/nutrition forum in years - are G'em, Will Heffernan, and Hanley still around? )

Food intake
Typical foods so far include steak, chicken, ribs, turkey burgers, lambs chops, mince, eggs. I have had tiny bits of cheese, butter and milk and tiny bit of spice. Practically immaterial. Avoiding condiments.
I eat lots of fat and skin (if I was doing this for longer I'd definitely be including organ meats).
I am not counting calories and just eat to satiety. I have been regularly on an intermittent fast previously but have increased my 8 hour eating window to 12 hour. I do feel the need to eat 3 times as opposed to my previous 2 meals.
I am only boiling or using oven.

Negatives
Peeing a lot - Body getting rid of tons of water.
Brain fogginess on Day 3/4 seems to be gone now.
Temporary increased resting heart rate on Day 3.
These symptoms all appear to be regularly reported moving into this style of eating.

Positives
I'm never hungry for sugary sh1te and haven't craved anything else. I can look at biscuits, chocolate, cake etc and I'm not even bothered which is highly unusual for me!
Luckily, I haven't had the diarrhea that some people have reported!

Other comments
No idea if coincidence but I have always hated waking up and getting up, More so than I could ever describe in words. This week hasn't been an issue at all.

Notes
I've tested most diets over the years and so far the most sustainable combo I've ever felt best on was say 90% paleo with a 16:8 IF (leaving 10% for cheat meals and general sh1te like birthday cakes). It is normal default.

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating for or against this diet. I just thought it would be fun to check it out from a curiosity basis.

Infernal Racket

Zamboni wrote: »

I am day 5 into a two week trial of a carnivore animal product only diet :eek:
Thought I'd record experience here.
(Haven't been around the fitness/nutrition forum in years - are G'em, Will Heffernan, and Hanley still around? )

Food intake
Typical foods so far include steak, chicken, ribs, turkey burgers, lambs chops, mince, eggs. I have had tiny bits of cheese, butter and milk and tiny bit of spice. Practically immaterial. Avoiding condiments.
I eat lots of fat and skin (if I was doing this for longer I'd definitely be including organ meats).
I am not counting calories and just eat to satiety. I have been regularly on an intermittent fast previously but have increased my 8 hour eating window to 12 hour. I do feel the need to eat 3 times as opposed to my previous 2 meals.
I am only boiling or using oven.

Negatives
Peeing a lot - Body getting rid of tons of water.
Brain fogginess on Day 3/4 seems to be gone now.
Temporary increased resting heart rate on Day 3.
These symptoms all appear to be regularly reported moving into this style of eating.

Positives
I'm never hungry for sugary sh1te and haven't craved anything else. I can look at biscuits, chocolate, cake etc and I'm not even bothered which is highly unusual for me!
Luckily, I haven't had the diarrhea that some people have reported!

Other comments
No idea if coincidence but I have always hated waking up and getting up, More so than I could ever describe in words. This week hasn't been an issue at all.

Notes
I've tested most diets over the years and so far the most sustainable combo I've ever felt best on was say 90% paleo with a 16:8 IF (leaving 10% for cheat meals and general sh1te like birthday cakes). It is normal default.

Disclaimer: I'm not advocating for or against this diet. I just thought it would be fun to check it out from a curiosity basis.

Sounds miserable

blackbox

Infernal Racket wrote: »

Sounds miserable

Are you not even having a beer?

JH_raheny

I think it sounds gross but please post updates on how you get on with it.
As weird as I think it is, as curious I am too, at the end of the day, people try so many different ways so why could it not work

Infernal Racket

JH_raheny wrote: »

I think it sounds gross but please post updates on how you get on with it.
As weird as I think it is, as curious I am too, at the end of the day, people try so many different ways so why could it not work

Can't be good for the body

Still waters

For what reason op, also not eating/craving sugary stuff goes hand in hand, the more you have the more you want, seems a peculiar enough diet, is this the one joe Rogan has been on about

jaykhunter

Sounds like a mental diet (esp as meat is expensive and quite high calorie) so thanks for posting your thoughts going through it! What's the spending been like?

jam_mac_jam

Don't do it for longer then two weeks, unless you are eating raw meat or liver you will get scurvy for a start. Do Atkins or Durkan or something. At least you get some green vegetables with those.

This is a dangerous diet to follow for any length of time. I am not sure this nonsense should be allowed on the forum.

silverharp

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Don't do it for longer then two weeks, unless you are eating raw meat or liver you will get scurvy for a start. Do Atkins or Durkan or something. At least you get some green vegetables with those.

This is a dangerous diet to follow for any length of time. I am not sure this nonsense should be allowed on the forum.

Im going to say you are wrong on Scurvy , if you don't eat sugar you need less vitamin C. There are people who have been doing Carnivore for years now, if it was that unhealthy that they were getting scurvy everyone would know that by now

jam_mac_jam

silverharp wrote: »

Im going to say you are wrong on Scurvy , if you don't eat sugar you need less vitamin C. There are people who have been doing Carnivore for years now, if it was that unhealthy that they were getting scurvy everyone would know that by now

well I'm not. If you don't eat organ or raw meat you will get scurvy. Look it up. The people who are doing it for years are eating organs. Which I mentioned above.

I could smoke a hundred cigarettes a day for years doesn't mean its good for me.

silverharp

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

well I'm not. If you don't eat organ or raw meat you will get scurvy. Look it up. The people who are doing it for years are eating organs. Which I mentioned above.

I could smoke a hundred cigarettes a day for years doesn't mean its good for me.

Well I have by following people that are doing it, if they were getting scurvy they wouldn't do it. Doing the Tide challenge isn't great either but has no bearing whether eating meat only is bad for someone given that its a decent protein/fat nutrient dense food.

To my mind nose to tail eating would seem to be more comprehensive while achieving the same goal

Alf Veedersane

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

well I'm not. If you don't eat organ or raw meat you will get scurvy. Look it up. The people who are doing it for years are eating organs. Which I mentioned above.

Or supplementing with vitamin C.

So, assuming you look after your vitamin C needs, wherein lies the danger?

jam_mac_jam

silverharp wrote: »

Well I have by following people that are doing it, if they were getting scurvy they wouldn't do it. Doing the Tide challenge isn't great either but has no bearing whether eating meat only is bad for someone given that its a decent protein/fat nutrient dense food.

To my mind nose to tail eating would seem to be more comprehensive while achieving the same goal

Yes, as I said they are obviously eating organs. As in my original post.

I am not sure what your point is. That not eating vitamin C doesn't cause scurvy because you follow somebody on Instagram.

jam_mac_jam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Or supplementing with vitamin C.

So, assuming you look after your vitamin C needs, wherein lies the danger?

No danger at all. All those nutritionists that tell us to eat vegetables are obviously wrong.

Alf Veedersane

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

No danger at all. All those nutritionists that tell us to eat vegetables are obviously wrong.

The absence of something that's good for you doesn't necessarily make something bad for you.

Plenty of people have poor diets and don't get a broad range of micronutrients from veg. Doesn't make their diet dangerous.

The OP has said they're doing it for two weeks.

jam_mac_jam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The absence of something that's good for you doesn't necessarily make something bad for you.

Plenty of people have poor diets and don't get a broad range of micronutrients from veg. Doesn't make their diet dangerous.

The OP has said they're doing it for two weeks.

Yes and he should stick to it for only two weeks to prevent nutrition deficiency.

As in said in my first post. And can't really get why i am getting jumped all over for the wild recommendation that you should also eat vegetables

Alf Veedersane

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Yes and he should stick to it for only two weeks to prevent nutrition deficiency.

As in said in my first post. And can't really get why i am getting jumped all over for the wild recommendation that you should also eat vegetables

The hyperbole probably. No one is jumping all over you; just pointing out that scurvy isn't that big a concern if you do it properly.

It's not necessarily dangerous and is at least worth posting up for comment on a Nutrition & Diet forum.

jam_mac_jam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The hyperbole probably. No one is jumping all over you; just pointing out that scurvy isn't that big a concern if you do it properly.

It's not necessarily dangerous and is at least worth posting up for comment on a Nutrition & Diet forum.

Again as i said in my first post. If you are not eating organs or raw meat then there is a danger.

It's a faddy unhealthy diet. And If you are posting in a nutrition forum i also have the right to point that out.

Every single post i make is being jumped on because I am suggesting you should eat veg.

Alf Veedersane

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Again as i said in my first post. If you are not eating organs or raw meat then there is a danger.

It's a faddy unhealthy diet. And If you are posting in a nutrition forum i also have the right to point that out.

Every single post i make is being jumped on because I am suggesting you should eat veg.

Your posts aren't being jumped on. People don't always agree with elements of someone's points. And no one has questioned anything you said about vegetables.

And of course you have the right to make a point but sometimes people ask you to qualify your point of view and it doesn't have to be a big deal.

No one has jumped all over your posts. The Carnivore Diet doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. I only queried the validity of it being dangerous in all cases.

If you feel so persecuted here then maybe discussion forums aren't for you.

jam_mac_jam

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Your posts aren't being jumped on. People don't always agree with elements of someone's points. And no one has questioned anything you said about vegetables.

And of course you have the right to make a point but sometimes people ask you to qualify your point of view and it doesn't have to be a big deal.

No one has jumped all over your posts. The Carnivore Diet doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. I only queried the validity of it being dangerous in all cases.

If you feel so persecuted here then maybe discussion forums aren't for you.

Ok just going round in circles here. I'm out. I'm just repeating myself. So i will agree to disagree.
Not feeling persecuted at all.

silverharp

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Yes, as I said they are obviously eating organs. As in my original post.

I am not sure what your point is. That not eating vitamin C doesn't cause scurvy because you follow somebody on Instagram.

No they aren't, there are 2 groups of carnivores broadly, those that basically stick to beef and others that are more nose to tail. Look up Dr Shawn Baker, he was on Joe Rogan so that is probably a good place to start, he has been a beef only carnivore for a couple of years

Zamboni

Day 10

On the cost side. I like to buy only Irish meats and free range Irish poultry.
I've no problem buying Irish beef in any of the supermarkets but getting my hands on free range Irish chicken is becoming harder and harder.
Tesco do free range Irish drumsticks,thighs and whole chickens at reasonable value. BUT only in some stores. Frankly, I think people are nuts when they buy boxes of disgusting meat with stickers Produced in EU, sourced from EU, Thailand and Brazil. Buy Irish - support your farmers. Well reared Irish meat is a superfood. Also cuts down on global oil based transport. Rant over...
Irish lamb and pork is no bother. Lamb obviously can be a bit more expensive but delicious. I like lamb mince burgers.
Anyway a shop might look something like this...

€4.50 Tesco free range chicken
€4 Tesco chicken drumsticks (like them roasted)
€4 Tesco chicken things (like them boiled)
€8 Dunne's 2 x pork ribs (boiled)
€4 Lidl lamb steaks (grilled)
€3.20 Dozen free range eggs x 2
€6 Tesco 2 x beef steaks (fried)
Total €36ish - I would normally spend €30 a week on food so not a major difference

Comment: I think I am already at the conclusion this is no way a lifestyle I could sustain more than two weeks.
There are no issues with satiety/hunger and its not even that boring but as mentioned, I would have to begin eating organ meats of which I am not a big fan. I'd also be looking at supplements/fish oils etc and I always prefer to eat natural unprocessed foods.

Body comp - There is no doubt of fat loss and muscle retention, after the initial water weight loss. But none more than I would have normally achieved through paleo/keto and IF.

Also - I'm becoming a mild hypochondriac
Obviously my cholesterol has increased so now I'm suddenly very aware of my heart and any little change of heart rate.

JH_raheny

I don't think I could do two weeks but I might try 7 days just for the experience

Mellor

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Every single post i make is being jumped on because I am suggesting you should eat veg.

I think people were mainly disagreeing with you due to the claims you were making.

RDA for Vit C is 60-80mg. Amount required to avoid scurvy is only 10mg.
400g of grass fed beef has about 10mg.
There are probably negatives to this diet, scurvy isn't one.

Eating organ meat will obviously be better. People should be doing this anyway imo. Besides as the OP said

(if I was doing this for longer I'd definitely be including organ meats).

Soulsun

Fair play op

How is your sleeping patterns and your energy levels in general?

jam_mac_jam

Mellor wrote: »

I think people were mainly disagreeing with you due to the claims you were making.

RDA for Vit C is 60-80mg. Amount required to avoid scurvy is only 10mg.
400g of grass fed beef has about 10mg.
There are probably negatives to this diet, scurvy isn't one.

Eating organ meat will obviously be better. People should be doing this anyway imo. Besides as the OP said

Is that cooked as it doesn't agree with what i have looked up. I was under the impression you had to eat raw or organ as i said.

Also where are you going to get grass fed in Ireland in winter?

Mellor

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Is that cooked as it doesn't agree with what i have looked up. I was under the impression you had to eat raw or organ as i said.

Also where are you going to get grass fed in Ireland in winter?

Cooking, especially over cooking, will lower nutrient content of all foods. Including vegetables.
I’d imagine the meat lovers who go fir this tend towards rare steak.

Organs have higher nutrient content. I don’t understand why “you have to eat organs” is an issue. We should all do that anyway (if you eat meat).

You’ll find grass fed beef in every butchers and supermarket in the country. The vast majority of beef and dairy in Ireland is grass fed. It’s only a novelty in the likes of the US were grain fed is common.

wakka12

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The absence of something that's good for you doesn't necessarily make something bad for you.

Plenty of people have poor diets and don't get a broad range of micronutrients from veg. Doesn't make their diet dangerous.

The OP has said they're doing it for two weeks.

Well very few diets are 'dangerous' as in put you at immediate risk of death or injury , not eating any vegetables is extremely unhealthy, though.

Albhabeth

RIP your digestive system

jam_mac_jam

Mellor wrote: »

Cooking, especially over cooking, will lower nutrient content of all foods. Including vegetables.
I’d imagine the meat lovers who go fir this tend towards rare steak.

Organs have higher nutrient content. I don’t understand why “you have to eat organs” is an issue. We should all do that anyway (if you eat meat).

You’ll find grass fed beef in every butchers and supermarket in the country. The vast majority of beef and dairy in Ireland is grass fed. It’s only a novelty in the likes of the US were grain fed is common.

Undercooking is needed to get vitamin C from meat. That's why I mentioned it being raw or not. I am well aware that nutrients change but thanks for lecture.

I have said repeatedly that you have to eat organs to avoid problems if eating only meat so I am not really sure what your point is.

wakka12

Cows are fed hay in winter arent they? Rather than grain, not sure, but I assumed by all the big stacks of hay you see throughout the countryside here that it was a common source of food for livestock in the winter

jam_mac_jam

wakka12 wrote: »

Cows are fed hay in winter arent they? Rather than grain, not sure, but I assumed by all the big stacks of hay you see throughout the countryside here that it was a common source of food for livestock in the winter

Most are, not all. Grain is also used. You don't really know when you buy it though.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Read up on this before and I can't understand how there's less digestive problems (than what I do not know), with zero fiber in your diet.

what about the risk of cancer with so much meat? Are there any nutritional deficiencies with this diet? Is it affordable? Are all the organ meats good for your liver?

My cholesterol is quite high, 300+ so I have been limiting myself to 1-2 meat dishes per week (mainly from work lunches) and the rest of the time I am having vegan or vegitarian dishes. Whatever floats my boat. Going to get new bloods tested and I expect to see a decrease in my cholesterol.

Minime2.5

jaykhunter wrote: »

Sounds like a mental diet (esp as meat is expensive and quite high calorie) so thanks for posting your thoughts going through it! What's the spending been like?

Saying meat is quite high calorie is not accurate. Cod and chicken breast is some of the lowest calorie food around. But of course fattier meats like beef salmon and i include eggs in this have more calories so you still need to count them but youll be ok as long as your not purposely adding a load of extra fat. That bullet proof coffee idea of dumping a load of butter into it is the stupidest ideas ever why drink 4-500 calories
. The carnivore diet is ok to follow if you have digestive issues . Fibre can cause problems but I would not rule out fruit and especially veg forever

Minime2.5

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Don't do it for longer then two weeks, unless you are eating raw meat or liver you will get scurvy for a start. Do Atkins or Durkan or something. At least you get some green vegetables with those.

This is a dangerous diet to follow for any length of time. I am not sure this nonsense should be allowed on the forum.

That sounds like some olwan would say about the athiest forum

wakka12

Brenden Hissing Ant wrote: »

Read up on this before and I can't understand how there's less digestive problems (than what I do not know), with zero fiber in your diet.

what about the risk of cancer with so much meat? Are there any nutritional deficiencies with this diet? Is it affordable? Are all the organ meats good for your liver?

My cholesterol is quite high, 300+ so I have been limiting myself to 1-2 meat dishes per week (mainly from work lunches) and the rest of the time I am having vegan or vegitarian dishes. Whatever floats my boat. Going to get new bloods tested and I expect to see a decrease in my cholesterol.

Cancer risk increases with high consumption of methionine, which animal product is high in. As for cholesterol, I think it is only bad to have high cholesterol if the LDL is high and the HDL is low, I think meat just increases both, and isnt associated with increase cardiac risk for that reason. The low fibre intake is certainly the worst aspect of this diet, I dont know why there is any reason to choose 'carnivore' diet over say keto diet, which is a lot more rounded and balanced, and I already think keto is unnecessarily restrictive for good health.

Mellor

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Undercooking is needed to get vitamin C from meat. That's why I mentioned it being raw or not. I am well aware that nutrients change but thanks for lecture.

Rare/Medium steak isn't raw meat. I don't know why you insist on calling it that, or pretending that cooking a steak properly is some massive inconvenience. Not a lecture, just calling you on your nonsense.

I have said repeatedly that you have to eat organs to avoid problems if eating only meat so I am not really sure what your point is.

I'm aware you've repeatedly said that. I'm pointing out that it no big deal to eat organs, so why do you keep repeating it?
Seems like two really minor issues. Not sure what the fuss was about?

wakka12 wrote:

Cows are fed hay in winter arent they? Rather than grain, not sure, but I assumed by all the big stacks of hay you see throughout the countryside here that it was a common source of food for livestock in the winter

Correct. About 80% of cows are grass fed in Ireland. Americans pay a premium for Irish butter of the crap they have.
The "you can't get it in Ireland" stuff was nonsense.

Unearthly

Brenden Hissing Ant wrote: »

Read up on this before and I can't understand how there's less digestive problems (than what I do not know), with zero fiber in your diet.

what about the risk of cancer with so much meat? Are there any nutritional deficiencies with this diet? Is it affordable? Are all the organ meats good for your liver?

My cholesterol is quite high, 300+ so I have been limiting myself to 1-2 meat dishes per week (mainly from work lunches) and the rest of the time I am having vegan or vegitarian dishes. Whatever floats my boat. Going to get new bloods tested and I expect to see a decrease in my cholesterol.

Best of luck. I hope but I'm sure you will be pleased with your results

On a plant based diet I now have higher HDL than LDL. That was the only change to my lifestyle. Beforehand doctor told me my cholesterol was way too high for my relatively young age

KipperKing

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Don't do it for longer then two weeks, unless you are eating raw meat or liver you will get scurvy for a start. Do Atkins or Durkan or something. At least you get some green vegetables with those.

This is a dangerous diet to follow for any length of time. I am not sure this nonsense should be allowed on the forum.

I transitioned from keto (2 years) to carnivore in January. No sign of scurvy developing here! I have had no plant products for nearly 2 months and I've never felt better.

If you look online you will find people who have lived this way for years and are thriving. It all comes down to the bioavailability of the nutrients in meat.

What is dangerous is our highly processed western diet full of industrial seed oils and sugar, the chronic disease they cause and the pills the medical profession push to manage them.

wakka12

KipperKing wrote: »

I transitioned from keto (2 years) to carnivore in January. No sign of scurvy developing here! I have had no plant products for nearly 2 months and I've never felt better.

If you look online you will find people who have lived this way for years and are thriving. It all comes down to the bioavailability of the nutrients in meat.

What is dangerous is our highly processed western diet full of industrial seed oils and sugar, the chronic disease they cause and the pills the medical profession push to manage them.

And yet life expectancy has never been higher , those 'pills' do a lot of good

KipperKing

wakka12 wrote: »

And yet life expectancy has never been higher , those 'pills' do a lot of good

Yes that's true. Because we can now cure chronic infections. Chronic disease however is on the rise. Believe me it isn't pleasant, people are living longer but in what condition? What quality of life do they have?.
I'm talking from experience here because I care for them. You do not want to end up like that. Dementia rates are set to triple here by 2050 and it will cause chaos in our already crumbled health service. Not to mention cancer, diabetes and our biggest killer heart disease.
It's your opinion that those pills do good, and I agree that some do absolutely. But the vast majority just stabilise lifestyle diseases instead of treating the root cause.
I see people's insulin being increased to stabalise blood sugar, couple of months later a toe is coming off, sight fails or dementia sets in. Nobody pushes a dietary intervention. So that person lives to a grand old age with a very low quality of life.

Cill94

KipperKing wrote: »

Yes that's true. Because we can now cure chronic infections. Chronic disease however is on the rise. Believe me it isn't pleasant, people are living longer but in what condition? What quality of life do they have?.
I'm talking from experience here because I care for them. You do not want to end up like that. Dementia rates are set to triple here by 2050 and it will cause chaos in our already crumbled health service. Not to mention cancer, diabetes and our biggest killer heart disease.
It's your opinion that those pills do good, and I agree that some do absolutely. But the vast majority just stabilise lifestyle diseases instead of treating the root cause.
I see people's insulin being increased to stabalise blood sugar, couple of months later a toe is coming off, sight fails or dementia sets in. Nobody pushes a dietary intervention. So that person lives to a grand old age with a very low quality of life.

This is all true but I see no evidence in the nutrition literature that a carnivore or ketogenic diet is the answer. In fact one of the few things that's fairly well established in nutrition research is that plants are good for health.

This can also be seen if you look at the 'blue zones' on Earth (areas with highest density of centenarians). Things all of these zones have in common: the people are highly active, they socialise a lot, and their diet is composed of mostly plants, with protein generally coming from moderate intakes of animal products.

jam_mac_jam

Cill94 wrote: »

This is all true but I see no evidence in the nutrition literature that a carnivore or ketogenic diet is the answer. In fact one of the few things that's fairly well established in nutrition research is that plants are good for health.

This can also be seen if you look at the 'blue zones' on Earth (areas with highest density of centenarians). Things all of these zones have in common: the people are highly active, they socialise a lot, and their diet is composed of mostly plants, with protein generally coming from moderate intakes of animal products.

A ketogenic diet includes vegetables and plants so is not really in the same league as a carnivore diet.

There is very little evidence for a carnivore diet beyond pseudo science and anecdotes. There is some evidence for low carb diets improving health and specific conditions such as epilepsy. However you can eat low carb and still eat vegetables.

Cill94

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

A ketogenic diet includes vegetables and plants so is not really in the same league as a carnivore diet.

There is very little evidence for a carnivore diet beyond pseudo science and anecdotes. There is some evidence for low carb diets improving health and specific conditions such as epilepsy. However you can eat low carb and still eat vegetables.

Yeah I wasn't implying they're on par. Carnivore is definitely less supported by evidence and potentially damaging to health.

wakka12

KipperKing wrote: »

Yes that's true. Because we can now cure chronic infections. Chronic disease however is on the rise. Believe me it isn't pleasant, people are living longer but in what condition? What quality of life do they have?.
I'm talking from experience here because I care for them. You do not want to end up like that. Dementia rates are set to triple here by 2050 and it will cause chaos in our already crumbled health service. Not to mention cancer, diabetes and our biggest killer heart disease.
It's your opinion that those pills do good, and I agree that some do absolutely. But the vast majority just stabilise lifestyle diseases instead of treating the root cause.
I see people's insulin being increased to stabalise blood sugar, couple of months later a toe is coming off, sight fails or dementia sets in. Nobody pushes a dietary intervention. So that person lives to a grand old age with a very low quality of life.

But perhaps the rise is just a result of our much longer life span, the greatest risk factor for most chronic diseases is age. Despite people always saying that while longevity is improving quality of life in the latter years is not, I've never seen any proof that these old people with chronic illness are living in abject misery. Hypertension and diabetes are two of the most common chronic disease and if they are correctly medicated quality of life will be fine despite being ill with them .

I agree that treating root cause should always be preferred over medication , but I certainly don't think diet and much less the carnivore diet are necessarily always the answer, every chronic illness is different and has completely different set of contributing factors , genetic predisposition is as important a factor usually as diet

KipperKing

wakka12 wrote: »

But perhaps the rise is just a result of our much longer life span, the greatest risk factor for most chronic diseases is age. Despite people always saying that while longevity is improving quality of life in the latter years is not, I've never seen any proof that these old people with chronic illness are living in abject misery. Hypertension and diabetes are two of the most common chronic disease and if they are correctly medicated quality of life will be fine despite being ill with them .

I agree that treating root cause should always be preferred over medication , but I certainly don't think diet and much less the carnivore diet are necessarily always the answer, every chronic illness is different and has completely different set of contributing factors , genetic predisposition is as important a factor usually as diet

Yes everyone is individual and what works for one might not work for others. As regards to carnivore, I didn't set out to do this at all. When I started keto 2 years ago, I was literally blown away by how much my health improved. My energy levels were a constant adequate level throughout the day because I wasn't relying on glucose for energy. I was very happy to stay that way.

However, my reasons for doing keto weren't based around weightloss, more to do with health as I have previously mentioned, we have a rather horrible disease running in the family. I decided to study nutrition, have just finished my first course and am now moving up to the next level. I have read countless books, even tried a vegetarian diet when I was younger (felt like crap on that). I decided to give carnivore a go for just a month.

The results were insane. Energy level through the roof, no cravings for sugar, mental clarity, extra time and lots of it. I can fast for 24 hours with little problem. I have gained muscle with little exercise; this I know because I'm thinner at the same weight and stronger. I didn't want to go back from that.

It's left me in a proper dilemma, I have a 20 foot polytunnel in the lawn full of greens that I have no intention of eating (christ I'll be shot when I tell my other half I want a chicken coop instead). I've invested a lot in vegetables that just zapped my energy. But that's just me, I know I'm incredibly oxalate sensitive.

I'm not on here to say carnivore is the only way to go, it's not, it's a journey and different for everyone, you have to see what works. But I will challange anyone who suggests it could possibly be worse than the crappy Western diet that is literally leading us to being one of the fattest(and therefore unhealthy) nations in the world by 2050.

I think any diet that recommends unprocessed foods is better than the western diet, but for me none have compared to carnivore.
Now I know you say the evidence for carnivore is non-existent, I would agree that clinical trials are few and far between, but who would want to fund that? Were talking about consuming 2 products, meat and eggs. If that works where is the money to be made.

Traditional tribes such as the Inuit, Maasai survive on meat and are healthy until they adopt western diets. For me the main evidence is found in anthropology. We know before our ancestors first began farming 10-12,000 years ago they existed and evolved on meat. 12,000 years is a minute amount of time in our evolution. We know the nutrients in meat are fully bioavailable which is why I feel great on Carnivore.

I won't get too into the blue zones because homestly I could write a book, here's a few points;
Hong Kong--highest meat consumption, highest longevity
The meat-eating Mormons of california - same longevity as the Adventists... not on list.
Sardinian meat consumption was underestimated.
I could go on. Follow the money!

Zamboni

Soz I forgot about this thread

Anyway, I appreciate there are different views on this and for some reason its very emotive.
I'm not advocating for or against.


Overall Negatives
There was only one main negative. I really did not enjoy the transition. At all.
Crazy nausea/brain fog. But I appreciate this is/was temporary.
Mild hypochondria too to be honest!
Outside of that is was really just food variety got a little tedious. I did miss my greens.

Positives
Zero craving for sugary processed crap.
Fasting became easier over time.
Weight loss and muscle retention was the default. Be fierce rare I'd have visible abs in Februray...
Zero digestive issues like heartburn, acid reflux.

Other comments
It was fine for a fortnight, actually ran a little over.
I have reverted to my paleo/keto it is still to me the most sustainable.
I'm not sure why the carnivore would appeal above keto/paleo unless it was a last resort elimination diet for immune issues.
However, I'd probably choose it over vegan/vegetarian or SAD.

Zamboni

Cill94 wrote: »

Carnivore is definitely less supported by evidence and potentially damaging to health.

Would it not be preferable to say that there is insufficient research on carnivore to say whether it is potentially damaging or potentially beneficial to health?

KipperKing

Zamboni wrote: »

Soz I forgot about this thread

Anyway, I appreciate there are different views on this and for some reason its very emotive.
I'm not advocating for or against.


Overall Negatives
There was only one main negative. I really did not enjoy the transition. At all.
Crazy nausea/brain fog. But I appreciate this is/was temporary.
Mild hypochondria too to be honest!
Outside of that is was really just food variety got a little tedious. I did miss my greens.

Positives
Zero craving for sugary processed crap.
Fasting became easier over time.
Weight loss and muscle retention was the default. Be fierce rare I'd have visible abs in Februray...
Zero digestive issues like heartburn, acid reflux.

Other comments
It was fine for a fortnight, actually ran a little over.
I have reverted to my paleo/keto it is still to me the most sustainable.
I'm not sure why the carnivore would appeal above keto/paleo unless it was a last resort elimination diet for immune issues.
However, I'd probably choose it over vegan/vegetarian or SAD.

Interestingly enough, your positives seem to mirror what I have found too.
Can totally understand why you reverted back. Paleo/Keto also gives excellent results. It fits in more with lifestyle too.
I'm at a stage in my life where I really don't have one outside the home. It's work, kids repeat!, don't go out much and I'm not really a drinker. I couldn't have done this 10 years ago when I had more of a social life, so for now I'm happy to stick to carnivore with the odd keto day.

wakka12

Zamboni wrote: »

Would it not be preferable to say that there is insufficient research on carnivore to say whether it is potentially damaging or potentially beneficial to health?

No there are absolutely potentially damaging aspects to the diet such as excluding all plants

Cill94

Zamboni wrote: »

Would it not be preferable to say that there is insufficient research on carnivore to say whether it is potentially damaging or potentially beneficial to health?

Research seems to point fairly strongly to plant eaters having healthier outcomes. A carnivore diet is also likely to be higher in saturated fat, which is likely something that needs to be moderated for optimal health.