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EV aficionado (Bjørn Nyland) denounces DC fast charging/supercharging!

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    #62
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,031 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    KCross wrote: »
    The main issue here is the marketing. People dont know kW's to kWh's when it comes to EV's so to expect the general public to be able to understand this issue is going to be difficult and if the issue does come to pass on the Model 3 it will leave alot of secondhand owners in a few years time with a bad taste in their mouth when they get a much slower charge speed than they expected.... Tesla should be more open about this issue.

    This is very very like Nissan's rapidgate... they advertised one speed but delivered something very different in some circumstances.

    What advertising/marketing? I had a quick skim over the Tesla website and can't find anything about DC charging speeds.


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    #63
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,097 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Lumen wrote: »
    What advertising/marketing? I had a quick skim over the Tesla website and can't find anything about DC charging speeds.

    The 1000km/hr charge speed is oft heralded/tweeted by Tesla/Musk.
    As is the speed of the superchargers themselves. Each time a new iteration of superchargers is released its marketed accordingly.

    And the 250kW is on the spec sheet of the Model 3 LR and P (apparently 170kW max on the SR+)... its on their website.... look again.


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    #64
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,031 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    KCross wrote: »
    The 1000km/hr charge speed is oft heralded/tweeted by Tesla/Musk.

    The brainfarts of company executives have no basis in consumer law, as far as I understand it, but if you could find some examples of such tweets that would be useful.
    KCross wrote: »
    As is the speed of the superchargers themselves. Each time a new iteration of superchargers is released its marketed accordingly.

    Sure, and Ionity blow the 350kW trumpet despite no car from their stakeholders being able to charge that fast.
    KCross wrote: »
    And the 250kW is on the spec sheet of the Model 3 LR and P (apparently 170kW max on the SR+)... its on their website.... look again.

    I looked again and found this:

    https://www.tesla.com/en_IE/support/supercharging
    KCross wrote: »
    What is the peak charge rate for V3 Superchargers?

    V3 Superchargers are capable of delivering peak charge rates up to 250kW.

    Will all Tesla vehicles be able to receive a 250kW charge?
    All Tesla models will benefit from the elimination of power sharing in V3 architecture. The peak rate each vehicle achieves will vary with size and age of battery pack, state of charge and ambient temperature conditions.

    How long will it take to reach 80% state of charge at V3 Superchargers?
    We expect average charge times to be cut in half when the benefits of On-Route Battery Warmup are combined with V3 Supercharger power capability. The impact to individual owners will vary based on multiple factors, such as size and condition of battery pack.

    So age and condition are specifically mentioned. What's the problem?

    With respect, I think you might be mistaking the frothy vomit of Tesla fanboys and websites run by Tesla investors with official company marketing material. The Tesla website is detailed but measured and makes no claims which this nerfing would affect, from what I can see.


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    #65
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,097 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Lumen wrote: »
    The Tesla website is detailed but measured and makes no claims which this nerfing would affect, from what I can see.

    Go to the Model 3 page and go to the spec section... it lists 250kW there.

    It does say "max" but it doesnt say anything about this nerfing.

    Even what you've posted above is vague, dont you think? It lists 250kW and says it might not reach that but it doesnt mention that it can be as low at 95kW and in some cases 50kW! Thats misleading, imo.


    As I said, Nissan did the exact same. They listed charge times and speeds which were best case scenarios and then when people did long distance journeys got a very different result to much uproar!

    This is heading along the same lines IF it happens to the Model 3.


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    #66
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,031 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    KCross wrote: »
    Go to the Model 3 page and go to the spec section... it lists 250kW there.

    It does say "max" but it doesnt say anything about this nerfing.

    I just can't see it. I see this.

    https://www.tesla.com/en_ie/model3

    image.pngimage.png


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    #67
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,031 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Ah KCross, you're looking on the US site.

    https://www.tesla.com/model3

    That site has this:

    image.png


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    #68
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,031 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Anyway, having cleared that up, I'll answer your question
    KCross wrote: »
    It does say "max" but it doesnt say anything about this nerfing.

    Even what you've posted above is vague, dont you think? It lists 250kW and says it might not reach that but it doesnt mention that it can be as low at 95kW and in some cases 50kW! Thats misleading, imo.

    No I don't think it's vague, or misleading.

    I suppose they could hyperlink to the parts of the website I've quoted above, that go into more detail, but that Specs screen is hardly shoved in your face. The charging speed is just not a major part of their website marketing.

    I guess the reason they don't list speed on the Irish sites is because the superchargers here are only 120kW.

    edit: no, the UK site is also non-specific about charging speed, and they have a V3 supercharger in London.


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    #69
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,097 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Lumen wrote: »
    No I don't think it's vague, or misleading.

    Fair enough, we’re all entitled to our opinion. I think they should be more forthcoming with this significantly reduced charge rate.


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    #70
    Mupchease
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Mupchease


    I don’t think it’s misleading. I think even the average non tech person knows that battery’s are not as good as they age. It’s expected nearly especially thanks to the Apple iPhone battery issue. Wasn’t it found that all companies were doing similar just Apples iPhone was noticed the most ?

    Every ice car gets worse with age too. I really don’t see the issue. They also make top end claims with their speed and efficiency. It’s a car thing, it’s not something new that only cropped up once EVs hit the market.

    The only thing il say is the cars are still new and we are still finding out more about them. It’s just like when after a few years people can turn around and say a certain car model and year will have an expected issue. The ground isn’t uprooted when 5 years down the road a known turbo issue happens.


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    #71
    btkm8unsl0w5r4
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,538 ✭✭✭btkm8unsl0w5r4


    Mupchease wrote: »
    I don’t think it’s misleading. I think even the average non tech person knows that battery’s are not as good as they age. It’s expected nearly especially thanks to the Apple iPhone battery issue. Wasn’t it found that all companies were doing similar just Apples iPhone was noticed the most ?

    Every ice car gets worse with age too. I really don’t see the issue. They also make top end claims with their speed and efficiency. It’s a car thing, it’s not something new that only cropped up once EVs hit the market.

    The only thing il say is the cars are still new and we are still finding out more about them. It’s just like when after a few years people can turn around and say a certain car model and year will have an expected issue. The ground isn’t uprooted when 5 years down the road a known turbo issue happens.

    Will you take your common sense and pragmatism elsewhere, we are trying to have a hissy fit here.


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    #72
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I'm pretty simple when it comes to this.

    For the duration of the warranty time on my vehicle, I expect it to be capable of rapid charging at a rate as advertised when I bought it.

    I'm OK with the reduced range because the warranty specifies the reduction, I would expect any reduction in charging ability to also be outlined in the warranty conditions.


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    #73
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,790 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Tesla Joy on youtube referred to a 100 k miles Model 3....

    Car is supercharged everyday.....

    Still charging at 211 kw on version 3 supercharger.

    It wasn't her car but one she saw on a Model 3 Facebook group.

    Tesla Joy has the opposite view to Bjorn on this - she reckons the Model 3 has a different battery and cooling.

    Now of course we could argue that 211 is nerfed if we compare it to 250 kw.

    But it's a huge difference from 95 kw and we know it drops from 250 kw very fast so could be a too high SOC thing too.


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    #74
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,031 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    liamog wrote: »
    I'm pretty simple when it comes to this.

    For the duration of the warranty time on my vehicle, I expect it to be capable of rapid charging at a rate as advertised when I bought it.

    I'm OK with the reduced range because the warranty specifies the reduction, I would expect any reduction in charging ability to also be outlined in the warranty conditions.

    Tesla does not advertise nor warranty charging speeds in Ireland.


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    #75
    samih
    Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭samih


    Nothing is more sure than that Li batteries degrade when in use. It's pretty decent for Tesla to safeguard their cars and customers from thermal events when the batteries age.

    You always have an option to replace your battery pack if the performance is not good enough for your usage case after 200k kms of constant 250 kW charging. By that time the car has probably paid for itself anyway if that is what is needed. It's a good excuse anyway for everybody else to stop using the DC chargers as their personal charging station if you can charge somewhere else instead.


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