EV chargers and large companies in Ireland

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

Rolec units

The units were not in excess of 1k, they are available for below 1k even as a private individual. I do think we got a good deal for buying 3 but still.


The wires were already there, we already have 3ph installed. So net cost to company is 0, thanks to ACCA.

Wall mounted would be a little less than €1k to buy alright and probably simpler to install. Your link shows €775. The pedestal is €1k which is what I have experience with.

Either way, ye got some deal to get them installed for €1k all-in. Not much profit there. Simple domestic installs are costing more.

And ACA doesn’t make it free, it just means they can write it down against profit in year 1 rather than over 8 years. They still have to pay for it but fair play on the price.

As I said, I’ve seen quotes for €5k+ on a pedestal install that required trenching and armoured cable so I guess it very much depends on the layout of the site.

KCross

Northumberland wrote: »

I do take it as a bonus, and drive up to IKEA in Belfast and do my shopping there, and use their fast charger, and am quite happy, entitled perhaps! I just wonder why the same company, run by the same people, chooses not to make the same available in Dublin.

Bob Flavin said in his recent video that IKEA Dublin are installing 3 charge points this year. No idea how reliable that info is but I presume he has it on some authority.

ELM327

Wonder if they are easygo? They seem on a mad expansion buzz

kennethsmyth

Northumberland wrote: »

After shopping I had to drive slowly on to Dublin Airport and wait for the single fast charger outside the McDonalds there to become available so I could get back home with my shopping.

Hi I would of used the fast charger at the circle k just off the r139 at end of M50/M1 Junction - less likely for chaos

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

Wonder if they are easygo? They seem on a mad expansion buzz

No idea, he didn’t say. Don’t know if it’s slow or rapid chargers either. I presume it’s slow as a rapid would be under utilised and just hogged.

Easygo would make sense alright though.

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

No idea, he didn’t say. Don’t know if it’s slow or rapid chargers either. I presume it’s slow as a rapid would be under utilised and just hogged.

Banks of 7-22kW units would be much better than 1 rapid as you'll never get out of Ikea in 30-45 minutes (watch out, rampant sexism incoming) with a female in tow.

Orebro

God above, the sense of entitlement in those emails is embarrassing.

Clareman

Just spotted this thread on the main page.

Why should private businesses supply charging points, they don't supply petrol/diesel pumps for other vehicles. I always thought it was the responsibility of the vehicle owner to have enough fuel for their journey not the destination.

kanuseeme

Complains about hybrids saving a euro, then wants a company to spend 1000's so he can save 16 euro, ( diesel @ 4.5 l/100km @1.35 euro)

Clareman

kanuseeme wrote: »

Complains about hybrids saving a euro, then wants a company to spend 1000's so he can save 16 euro, ( diesel @ 4.5 l/100km @1.35 euro)

Not helping the Cavan stereotype....

zg3409

JohnC. wrote: »

Tesco are installing points at 52 stores this year. However, it appears to only be a single point at each store, each capable of charging 2 cars.

Tesco is nationwide deal with esb to be a site for 22kw chargers. A bit pointless but many tesco stores have ample parking and esb have struggled to get sites for chargers.

Aldi have one or two, see plugshare app in Glenageary Dublin.

All lidl are slow/22kw except for one fast 50kw triple head in Drogheda.

I put lots on non esb chargers on plugshare app, with lots of unusual sites.

In terms of chargers Tesla will provide destination chargers for free to hotels and other public places for public charging if you don't charge a fee, and if one of the chargers in Tesla only. The premises need to pay installation and pay for power.

I suspect a lot of the cost of commercial installations that have a fee is the billing system, sim card, phone app, phone support

kanuseeme

I like Cavan people, I hope there will be banks of slow chargers every place you could think of, but its the double standards that some apply to others that I have to complain about.

knifey_spoonie

ELM327 wrote: »

We have 3 22kW units (six sockets) at work. The cost was less than 1 k per unit including all costs. All of which is reclaimable under ACCA.


Most businesses will already have 3 phase electricity and excess MIC.

Well your example isn't really representative of most situations. I received quotes of €4000 just to supply and install a 7.2KW wall charger.

If you take into account the position you are going to install these points is generally in a car parks, and normally pedestal mounts.(reduces trip hazard of cables trailing from wall to parking space) With even a conservative 100m cable run from fuse board to charger is going to require 16sq 5 core SWA cable which is €8-€10 per M, larger runs will not only require more cable but also larger diameter cable.

A €1000 charger is not going to have the ability to accept payment so now not only is a business going to have to spend considerably to install the chargers they are also expected to supply free fuel in the form of electricity.

Northumberland

the users of the 'other vehicles' do not need to sit an hour at the petrol pumps.

KCross

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

A €1000 charger is not going to have the ability to accept payment so now not only is a business going to have to spend considerably to install the chargers they are also expected to supply free fuel in the form of electricity.

The 22kW Rolec pedestal has a payment option built in. That pedestal is around the €1k mark so it can be done.

I agree with the rest of your post, it matches the quotes I saw too.

ELM327

knifey_spoonie wrote: »

Well your example isn't really representative of most situations. I received quotes of €4000 just to supply and install a 7.2KW wall charger.

If you take into account the position you are going to install these points is generally in a car parks, and normally pedestal mounts.(reduces trip hazard of cables trailing from wall to parking space) With even a conservative 100m cable run from fuse board to charger is going to require 16sq 5 core SWA cable which is €8-€10 per M, larger runs will not only require more cable but also larger diameter cable.

A €1000 charger is not going to have the ability to accept payment so now not only is a business going to have to spend considerably to install the chargers they are also expected to supply free fuel in the form of electricity.

Ours are pedestals.

innrain

Why assume the charging should be free?
In the Explorium case I understand the OP frustration. When you want to show the cutting edge you need to be cutting edge. Nobody says it should be free make it 0.79/kWh but make it available. You speak about Nikolai Tesla, how he wanted to give free electricity to everyone, you can link with a Tesla charger

I think this is the place of a formal association (ex. IEVOA), which can show the opportunities, business and PR, for installing such chargers on their premises. Also the private operators in the business should have their scouts.
Things will change when there will be laws in place to make it compulsory to have them in the planning application phase. 2021 for new and major upgrades?

Shaming is for the government run/funded institutions. They should lead by example. Universities, colleges, they should educate the public. They have the expertise on the ground.
Climate Action Council is made up from members from these organizations. With the exception of UCD,UL what other university has chargers in their carparks for students or staff? DCU has 1400 spaces in their Glasnevin campus but no one single charger. UCC, UG. These are carkparks with a lot of exposure to public. They can be used to raise awareness. Well if you really want to get to 1 million cars. Again nothing should be free.

zg3409

innrain wrote: »

what other university has chargers in their carparks for students or staff? DCU has 1400 spaces in their Glasnevin campus but no one single charger. UCC, UG. These are carkparks with a lot of exposure to public. They can be used to raise awareness. Well if you really want to get to 1 million cars. Again nothing should be free.

Sligo IT has new chargers marked on plugshare but no check in yet. DCU have staff only chargers, they were on plugshare but someone removed them from the app. DCU alpha has chargers for visitors, not shown on plugshare, and a company that makes chargers. Waterford IT has an esb 22kw in the car park, shown on plugshare, replaced with a brand new unit this week.

Crazy high fess mean chargers may never be used not even by those parking there every day. Free chargers typically work more reliably and have less to go wrong.

innrain

zg3409 wrote: »

Sligo IT has new chargers marked on plugshare but no check in yet. DCU have staff only chargers, they were on plugshare but someone removed them from the app. DCU alpha has chargers for visitors, not shown on plugshare, and a company that makes chargers. Waterford IT has an esb 22kw in the car park, shown on plugshare, replaced with a brand new unit this week.

Crazy high fess mean chargers may never be used not even by those parking there every day. Free chargers typically work more reliably and have less to go wrong.

The .79 was a tongue in cheek. Of course nobody wants that but free is abused.

DCU alpha is a commercial entity separate from the University itself and in a different location.

DCU does not have chargers for staff or students. The only charger (a 3.7kW) in Glasnevin campus is owned by the cleaning company which is an external contractor. Nobody else has access. Maybe this is the reason it has been removed.

My point is that there is just a few examples of chargers where should be lots. Nothing in Trinity, UCC which have large population of staff and students. In fairness, Trinity is exposed to public transport better than others. DCU has Helix beside it which again is a major event hub with lot of exposure to public.

Should the government be promoting EV driving and installing charge points at govt buildings for workers and visiting public, schools, hospitals etc?

innrain

Is your question a rhetoric one?

How else would you promote? Making leaflets and websites with outdated information?

This one https://www.smartertravelworkplaces.ie/smarter-travel-campus/ has on its front page an action from 2011!

On Success stories https://www.smartertravelworkplaces.ie/get-involved/partner-success-stories/ find something relevant from a state/semi-state body.
While I understand the value of cycling/walking to work my commute is just shy of 50km one way without counting the school run. On this smarttravel website there is no mention on lowering emissions by using EV as an alternative. If this is how GOV is promoting EVs to reach 1M cars in 2030 good lock!

The J Stands for Jay

Northumberland wrote: »

The Explorium 'National Sport and Science Centre' is another example - a place recently opened, obviously not cheap to build, but trying (fairly successfully in my view) to show off cutting edge science etc to children and young people. But oh now, they forgot to put in any ev charging points! You really can not get to that place without a car, and, if you are trying to get to it from outside the M50, you had better go there with an ICE car! It is way up in the hills above Sandyford, no regular bus. The nearest chargers (slow I think) are at the LUAS Park and ride at Sandyford or nearby. How on earth can the designers/operators/managers of such a 'national centre' have simply forgotten to fix some charging points, and this place was built just a year or two ago!

That building and car park were built well over 10 years ago. The 114 bus, which links to the Luas green line and Dart, has a stop just outside the grounds.

innrain

innrain wrote: »

Is your question a rhetoric one?

How else would you promote? Making leaflets and websites with outdated information?

This one https://www.smartertravelworkplaces.ie/smarter-travel-campus/ has on its front page an action from 2011!

On Success stories https://www.smartertravelworkplaces.ie/get-involved/partner-success-stories/ find something relevant from a state/semi-state body.
While I understand the value of cycling/walking to work my commute is just shy of 50km one way without counting the school run. On this smarttravel website there is no mention on lowering emissions by using EV as an alternative. If this is how GOV is promoting EVs to reach 1M cars in 2030 good lock!

I suppose it was a touch rhetorical!

I completely agree with you. If the government are serious about the reaching 1 million EV cars by 2030, I feel initiatives like installing charging stations in govt buildings should be introduced. Having appropriate numbers of stations in such places might serve to encourage more people to change over if they know that they have access to a charger in their workplace.

It could eliminate the Range anxiety that would be EV drivers have would it not?

innrain

I think the range anxiety has to do more with the car itself than with the charging infrastructure.
I just red that the new S/X will have 400 miles range. That will kind of stop most of the nerves.
The charging infrastructure in public places will show to non-EV drivers how easy is to fuel. When some non EV asks me something at a charger the most asked question "How long it takes to charge?" . If I say 9 hours they start laughing. When this happens in a workplace setting is not unthinkable that the car will spend nearly 9 hours sitting. It will also allow non driveway owners to consider buying a EV. They know they can have a plan B for refueling.
The frustration comes from the fact that it is so easy and inexpensive to do with a large return. We have talks and talks committees after committees and nothing happens.
The same for some local authorities. DCC report

unkel

innrain wrote: »

I think the range anxiety has to do more with the car itself than with the charging infrastructure.

It's the classic chicken & egg situation

Here in Ireland I would have substantial range anxiety if I drove my 28kWh BEV all over the country

In a country like the Netherlands, I could just set out on any journey and when I get a low range warning, just stop at the next fast charger (they are everywhere) and charge up for 15-20 minutes. Just like getting petrol / diesel in Ireland today (albeit taking a bit longer)

We don't need EVs with massive range, we just need a good network of fast chargers...

ELM327

I think 250km motorway range all year round is plenty sufficient and we should be focusing instead on faster charging and more charging sites.