PHEV and public charge points

whippet

I had a budget of about 50k to spend and nothing in the BEV range made me want to part with the cash .. I did briefly consider the Model 3 but it just didn’t tickle my fancy.

The compromise of a PHEV like the BMW ticked all the boxes for me.

I accept that people value the actual BEV more than the car itself and as with all things in life there everyone has different things they value and desire .. that is why we have choice !!

ELM327

KCross wrote: »

I wasnt specifically referring to price there.... more so range, charge speed and choice. Come down to the mass market (<€35k) and tell me what range and charge speed they have!

Konas starting at 32k now for 191 models.
If you never need to transport anything and your children have no legs

mickdw

We are supposed to be happy as long as a bev has range.
People running out paying huge money for hideous boxes on wheels and delighted because it has range.
I can't afford any of the EV I'd want to drive even used.
Phev is the answer. People are arguing here against someone paying 40k for a phev.to save 40c.
Taking an example of a 5 series, the phev would appear to be cheaper to buy, cheaper to fuel and with lots more power than
the cheapest petrol or diesel versions.
The battery range does suit me too but regardless, on the used market it appears to make sense either way.
The added benefit of not having to live with the silly stop start systems of current petrol and diesel cars also.

User1998

I went with a PHEV for a few reasons:
-Wanted a change from diesel
-Wanted an auto. (Hard to find in VW)
-PHEV suited my driving patterns.
-No BEV other than a Tesla that interested me.
-Low VRT, Insurance, and running costs

I didn’t like the idea of having to public charge but looking back at the past 4 months of ownership, I probably would have had to public charge twice. Once in the UK and once on a trip to Wexford, and coincidentally I pulled in at Gorey service station anyway and would have public charged then. I’ve spent about €100 in fuel including driving the car home from the UK, Dublin to Wexford, a few airport runs and some other longer runs

If I had bought a similar priced BEV it would have only saved me €100 over my PHEV over the past 4 months, so say €350 a year with the additional road tax a PHEV has. (Minus the cost I would have spent on public charging, no idea how much tbh)

Obviously this doesn’t include maintenance but in my case the car came fully serviced, new pads and discs, four new tyres. I’ve spent nothing on engine maintenance and I don’t see myself spending anything this year. Realistically if I drive 10k a year but only 2/3k of that is with the engine on, do I really need to service it every year? Surely its going to be way more reliable than a standard ICE because the engine is rarely on and never doing short trips. I always use regen breaking as well so the breaks wouldn’t need changing as much similar to a BEV. That said something big like a timing belt, turbo, etc could and will need changing eventually which will effect those figures, and theres probably something else I’m forgetting?

Don’t get me wrong tho I’m really pro EV and I look forward to the day when were all driving one. (Just clarifying that so you’s all go easy on me )

KCross

User1998 wrote: »

Don’t get me wrong tho I’m really pro EV and I look forward to the day when were all driving one. (Just clarifying that so you’s all go easy on me )

No need for apologies, you are already driving an EV!.... the clue is in the name... PHEV

BEV is where its moving to but for now its a mixture of PHEV, BEV and HEV.

ELM327

mickdw wrote: »

We are supposed to be happy as long as a bev has range.
People running out paying huge money for hideous boxes on wheels and delighted because it has range.
I can't afford any of the EV I'd want to drive even used.
Phev is the answer. People are arguing here against someone paying 40k for a phev.to save 40c.
Taking an example of a 5 series, the phev would appear to be cheaper to buy, cheaper to fuel and with lots more power than
the cheapest petrol or diesel versions.
The battery range does suit me too but regardless, on the used market it appears to make sense either way.
The added benefit of not having to live with the silly stop start systems of current petrol and diesel cars also.

If you can afford a 530e/330e you can afford a Tesla.

unkel

whippet wrote: »

I had a budget of about 50k to spend

You should compare based on TCO, and not on initial purchase price. For a company car driver a brand new Tesla Model S could very well have cheaper TCO than a brand new BMW 520d / 530e even thought the purchase price is what, a good €30k more?

And I know which car I'd rather have if the TCO of above was all roughly the same...

KCross

unkel wrote: »

You should compare based on TCO, and not on initial purchase price. For a company car driver a brand new Tesla Model S could very well have cheaper TCO than a brand new BMW 520d / 530e even thought the purchase price is what, a good €30k more?

And I know which car I'd rather have if the TCO of above was all roughly the same...

Its not all down to TCO. If it was we'd all be driving Dusters!

mickdw

ELM327 wrote: »

If you can afford a 530e/330e you can afford a Tesla.

Tell me more. I'm looking at spending 33 to 35k

ELM327

mickdw wrote: »

Tell me more. I'm looking at spending 33 to 35k

Model S used starts at around that from UK
You could also buy an SR+ new or 2016 onwards model S for about 10k more which you will still save money vs a 530e/330e when you factor in fuel costs

unkel

mickdw wrote: »

Tell me more. I'm looking at spending 33 to 35k

Not that hard to setup a wee spreadsheet to compare TCO. Purchase price minus resale value after the number of years you plan to keep the car determine finance cost and depreciation. Then BIK, fuel, maintenance, tax, insurance, tolls

There's a reason thousands of company directors in the Netherlands switched from BMW 5-series / Mercedes E-class to Tesla Model S a few years ago (hint: zero BIK)

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

you will still save money vs a 530e/330e when you factor in fuel costs

What would he save if his daily commute in his 530e was 40km each way, with access to a 3 pin plug while there?
He'd have his 20,000km annual commute covered on battery power alone, exactly as he would in any Tesla.
Stats suggest that's more than most BEV owners annual mileage.

Not everyone wants to sit in a Leaf or Zoe. Some don't like the Model 3's spartan interior. The Model S is as wide as a triple axle Ifor Williams cowbox - wouldn't be great on smaller rural roads .
If a PHEV suits someone, I'd say go for it. Imminently better than any diesel, again, if it suits.

graememk

Kramer wrote: »

The Model S is as wide as a triple axle Ifor Williams cowbox - wouldn't be great on smaller rural roads .

The Model S is that wide... puts things into perspective, you counting the wheels or just the box? lol

Although the triple axle is grand on the rural roads, although you dont worry too much if you give the hedge a rub with it. you might with an S

Kramer

graememk wrote: »

Although the triple axle is grand on the rural roads, although you dont worry too much if you give the hedge a rub with it. you might with an S

How about a Model S towing a triple axle Ifor Williams?
Would one need yellow flags/amber beacons & an "extra wide load" sign?
Would a BE licence be sufficient?
Would the emissions saved by towing with a BEV counteract the emissions from the farting cows in the trailer behind?
Net zero?

:pac:

mickdw

Not a huge advantage for me in full EV.
Work from home. Typically do 12 to 24 miles per day with one weekly 120 mile return. The days I do 24 miles will have a home period in between also for charging phev.
Small mileage but ads up to about 12k miles per year.
A lot of that would be taken care of on electricity with a 530e
Currently putting about 250 per month in petrol into car with the occasional cross country trip also.

unkel

mickdw wrote: »

Not a huge advantage for me in full EV.

Did you take into account zero BIK for a BEV? That's where the big savings are. Much more so than fuel.

mickdw

BIK doesn't apply to me

sgalvin

With the introduction of the BIK exemption, has anyone here had the option to take a company car that wasn’t there before.

It seems the only ones to gain from this is directors of small companies.

Historically the only benefit to taking a company car was sales guys who do big business mileage, no real benefit to others. Objectively the benefit of having a car provided for evening and weekends is the same whether you drive at work or not.

mickdw wrote: »

BIK doesn't apply to me

mickdw

I am self employed sole trader. I just claim business percentage use for my car costs so approx 50 percent of running costs and 50 percent of 3000 annual depreciation for 8 years.