18 and unmotivated

AckwelFoley

Our eldest finished his leaving cert in the summer. He has no interest in college or any form of further education. Not a sin in itself, but he has what seems little or no interest in working. He doesnt claim social welfare. He lives with us an gets a few odd jobs, enough to get by and contribute a small little to the household. Something frankly we wouldn't ask him necessarily to do if he was saving or aiming to do something constructive

His lack of interest in anything is distressing say the least. We have at this stage said all that can be said to him, we dont feel kicking him out is a good idea as at least this way we can keep an eye on him.

But hes in bed until at least 1 in the day and never home before 2 or 3 am

Wanderer78

Is he depressed?

AckwelFoley

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is he depressed?

I have thought of this and have experience with it personally but I dont think so. Im conscious of not being too hard on him for that reason.

TheBoyConor

might he be on drugs?

Sardonicat

When he's not working odd jobs or sleeping, how is he spending his time? Has he kept in contact with his school mates?

Wanderer78

AckwelFoley wrote:

I have thought of this and have experience with it personally but I dont think so. Im conscious of not being too hard on him for that reason.

This is a really tricky one, and must be dealt with carefully, I absolutely do not believe in the tough love approach, which I suspect will be along soon in the thread.

His behaviour does need to be addressed though, I'd be fearful myself, if I was in your shoes.

How was school for him?

az2wp0sye65487

When I was 18 I'd have loved to stay in bed til 1pm and out all night too if I was let. Isn't that 'normal' behaviour for an 18 yr old lad?

If he's not depressed and that can be discounted, and not under any pressure to do anything specifically, then why would he bother doing anything? Have you tried the 'tough love' approach? - i.e. he's an adult now, so if he wants to live under your roof he needs to contribute... hand up a certain amount each week. That might motivate him to go look for a job...?

AckwelFoley

Sardonicat wrote: »

When he's not working odd jobs or sleeping, how is he spending his time? Has he kept in contact with his school mates?

Socially absolutely no issues. Hes has lots of friends. Spends most of his time with them.

Drugs is definitely not a issue. Now anyhow.

az2wp0sye65487

Wanderer78 wrote: »

This is a really tricky one, and must be dealt with carefully, I absolutely do not believe in the tough love approach, which I suspect will be along soon in the thread.

His behaviour does need to be addressed though, I'd be fearful myself, if I was in your shoes.

How was school for him?

Fearful of what?

Wanderer78

AckwelFoley wrote:

Drugs is definitely not a issue. Now anyhow.

Was it an issue in the past?

AckwelFoley

Dimitri Long Squalor wrote: »

When I was 18 I'd have loved to stay in bed til 1pm and out all night too if I was let. Isn't that 'normal' behaviour for an 18 yr old lad?

If he's not depressed and that can be discounted, and not under any pressure to do anything specifically, then why would he bother doing anything? Have you tried the 'tough love' approach? - i.e. he's an adult now, so if he wants to live under your roof he needs to contribute... hand up a certain amount each week. That might motivate him to go look for a job...?

Understand and agree. He does contribite. But one would expect wanting a car or a holiday might motivate him

Wanderer78

Dimitri Long Squalor wrote:

Fearful of what?

For many different reasons, a directionless young adult is a problem, it increases the risk of complex issues such as addictions and long term unemployment

AckwelFoley

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Was it an issue in the past?

No. Not at all, but at 18 anything is possible in the next few years. Usual parenting worries

From his perspective he is living the life of riley. Get up when he wants, stay out late with his friends. Nice family home comforts, food washing, heat etc.

I wouldn't be too co concerned about that. You just need to get him to have a plan for the future because he is not going to be living that holiday care free existence indefinitely under your roof.

seamus

Leave him at it for now. If he's out all night, he's obviously earning himself enough for now to keep going.

Just don't enable him (don't give/lend him money for large purchases) and give him some space. His mates will all start college and start doing interesting things (like going on a holiday) and he'll start thinking about what he wants to do.

I don't feel that a "year out" is a bad thing at 18. They've spent so long as kids in the school system. Suddenly they're an adult and free and we expect them to throw themselves back into another system. Lots of people (including myself) could have used some time to decompress and think about the future rather than jumping straight into getting a job or going to college.

az2wp0sye65487

AckwelFoley wrote: »

Understand and agree. He does contribite. But one would expect wanting a car or a holiday might motivate him

It's hard to say. Something that might seem like a big motivator to you or me might be of no interest to him. My kids are all quite young so we haven't gone through the teenage years with any of them yet.

But I'm thinking back to my own teenage years OP. When I was 18 I'd either be out with friends either on a night out or in someone's house. Usually there was drink involved. Otherwise I'd be home, but even then I was a night-owl and would stay up til 3, 4 or 5 am watching films/TV. The most I ever got up to was drinking, was never interested in drugs - but I remember constantly being asked 'are you taking something?!' by the mother!

The fact is that I was just a moody teenager who didn't want to associate with my parents at that stage.

But I'm older now, have a decent job, wife, kids etc. etc. so it's not the end of the world. It could just be a phase he's going through.

GreenandRed

Has he alwys had a lack of interest in anything or did something trigger this? Sounds very chilled out and knows what he wants to do or in this case what he doesn't want to do. Would he mi well with a group of peers or others who he's meting for the first time.

On depression, you say he stays out late and sleeps until 1? Are you certain he mixes with schoolmates? Does he stay indoors mostly during daylight hours and head out during darkness? Sounds a strange question but even a mild form of depression could lead someone to behave like that thinking they might avoid people that recognise them and having to interact with him. They feel comfortable with their mates. Might have a fear of college or work where they'd have to mix with a bigger circle of people they don't know.

AckwelFoley

sugarman wrote: »

What are his interests/hobbies? Cars? Music? Computers? Video Games? Might be easier to point him towards something he'll like/enjoy as a career with a bit of help.

This is the bit that gets under my skin.

Loves cars..and would love to go to New Zealand.

But doesnt want to save for either. Hes perplexed that we wont have him as a named driver on our insurance.

That will happen when hell freezes over. Owning and running a car is the first thing a young adult has to do. It teaches them a bit of responsibility. I myself paid 3k pounds for the car and 3k per year for the insurance while earning about 250 quid a week when I started off..It's part of the learning curve.

He doesnt seem motivated enough even by the things he wants

Wanderer78

AckwelFoley wrote: »

This is the bit that gets under my skin.

Loves cars..and would love to go to New Zealand.

But doesnt want to save for either. Hes perplexed that we wont have him as a named driver on our insurance.

That will happen when hell freezes over. Owning and running a car is the first thing a young adult has to do. It teaches them a bit of responsibility. I paid 3k pounds for the car and 3k per year for the j insurance while earning about 250 quid a week. It's part of the learning curve.

He doesnt seem motivated enough even by the things he wants

ah well, if thats the case, leave him sit there, i would keep trying to motivate him to achieve his goals though

AckwelFoley

GreenandRed wrote: »

Has he alwys had a lack of interest in anything or did something trigger this? Sounds very chilled out and knows what he wants to do or in this case what he doesn't want to do. Would he mi well with a group of peers or others who he's meting for the first time.

On depression, you say he stays out late and sleeps until 1? Are you certain he mixes with schoolmates? Does he stay indoors mostly during daylight hours and head out during darkness? Sounds a strange question but even a mild form of depression could lead someone to behave like that thinking they might avoid people that recognise them and having to interact with him. They feel comfortable with their mates. Might have a fear of college or work where they'd have to mix with a bigger circle of people they don't know.

His mates collect him and drop him home. His friends works different hours in different jobs.

charlietheminxx

I had a bit of a slump like this when I was 21. My family couldn't understand it. I dropped out of college and worked part time in a shop. I had no motivation to do anything else.

The truth was that I was actually depressed and didn't even know it. I didn't understand that I could be dealing with something like that, because I didn't feel sad all the time (I'm not sure mental health was as well understood even just a decade ago). I just had no motivation, struggled to concentrate for extended periods, had no ambition and I stopped dreaming about anything (bar daydreams) because it all seemed impossibly unattainable. I'd been through a couple of things in the year leading up to it and my self esteem was at zero, even though I knew I was clever and could have a lot going for me. I was just too exhausted all the time.

I wish I could offer advice but I'm not sure what you should do in this situation. Could you mention to your son that he seems a bit low energy and ask him to chat to a doctor? Just in case.

2xj3hplqgsbkym

When I was younger any time I was at home ‘lazing about’ , I was given a job to do- clean windows, make dinner, paint fences, clean the garage, pull weeds etc... it did motivate me to get s part time job that was easier and at least I got paid. It made me realize that I did not want to do manual labor for the rest of my life also. However, I did learn important skills too.
Can you talk to him about this - here’s a list of jobs that need to be done , as you aren’t contributing financially to the house you need to be doing some of them.

Loveinapril

Izaiah Scary Balloonist wrote: »

When I was younger any time I was at home ‘lazing about’ , I was given a job to do- clean windows, make dinner, paint fences, clean the garage, pull weeds etc... it did motivate me to get s part time job that was easier and at least I got paid. It made me realize that I did not want to do manual labor for the rest of my life also. However, I did learn important skills too.
Can you talk to him about this - here’s a list of jobs that need to be done , as you aren’t contributing financially to the house you need to be doing some of them.

I agree with this. Although he is your child, he needs to realise he is an adult and should be contributing to the household in some way. My parents weren't overly strict but I certainly wouldn't have been allowed do nothing at home all day every day with no plan for the future.

GreenandRed

AckwelFoley wrote: »

His mates collect him and drop him home. His friends works different hours in different jobs.

Sound. It's good that he has good mates too. It's hard for him to be motivated to work towards what he wants because he's 18 and it's too young to know what he wants. Unlike 30 years ago when some parents want us to go to the 'bank' or some steady looking job and going to college was a novelty for some parents, there are loads of distractions for kids these days. There are also a whole lot more entries into further education and third level education be it at 18 or 58. Maybe he would like to do what he likes, not what he's good at, which used to be the path most career guidance teachers used to push us onto. As other posters have said give him lenty of chores to earn his keep. And maybe a bit of 'My house, my rules' regime to have only weekend late nights and lie ins. Eventually hpefully boredom will be a good motivator for him to travel, study, work or whatever he chooses.

topmanamillion

AckwelFoley wrote: »

His lack of interest in anything is distressing say the least. We have at this stage said all that can be said to him, we dont feel kicking him out is a good idea as at least this way we can keep an eye on him.

But hes in bed until at least 1 in the day and never home before 2 or 3 am

He's an 18 year old man he's not going to listen to his parent telling him softly softly "maybe you should think about the future" (jobs and paying rent) while you roll out the home comforts for him.

He clearly has it so good he's not even bothered to go on the dole.

You're saying you're distressed? How distressed are you? Do you want him out in a job and his own place in the next couple of months? Or are you happy enough to leave this meander for the next year or 18 months?
That will determine your approach.

If he's out regularly until 2 or 3 in the morning with no steady income you're clearly propping up his lifestyle. Again, each to their own but if you want him in a job in the not to distant future you need to cut the apron strings.

He funds his own social life and don't give him money for "odd jobs" around the house. They're part of him paying for his bed and board.

farmchoice

it could be worse, he could have gone to uni and spend his days there lying in bed until 1.00pm and staying up until 3.00am, all while you were paying for it.


when the summer comes and his friends start heading off abroad and the like he might change his ways.
at present he has it too good, he'd be mad to change. but soon his number wont look so cushy, his college going mates will start to leave him behind.


some 18 years are ready for the big bad world others are not, a year might sort him out, although id be inclined to set a date for change, there is absolutely no reason he cant get a job in Dunnes or mc donalds or whatever.
tell his to apply for a cao course for next year, or look into an apprenticeship or failing both of those have a job got by the 1st of June. any job, otherwise he has to leave the house every morning at 9.00am and cant come back until 6.00pm.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

From his perspective he is living the life of riley. Get up when he wants, stay out late with his friends. Nice family home comforts, food washing, heat etc.

I wouldn't be too co concerned about that. You just need to get him to have a plan for the future because he is not going to be living that holiday care free existence indefinitely under your roof.

I'd be inclined to go with this first. A family member also took a year off at that age, did nothing and after the year was up, headed to college and never looked back.

patmahe

Is there an adult other than you that he gets on well with that you could ask to chat to him and suss things out? As much as you might want to help he might find it easier to talk to someone outside of immediate family. I'd suggest a counselor but based on what you've said it's doubtful he'd go.

Also does he play any sports (or did he in the past), could be good to encourage that. The discipline of a steady job would be a good thing too. If you do get someone to talk to him could be good to see what his thinking is on it.

Short term, at his age, that behaviour is ok, but if it becomes a long term pattern it can do bad things to your mind.

I would consider charging him something close to market rent. Just to show him this can't continue indefinitely.

AckwelFoley

patmahe wrote: »

Is there an adult other than you that he gets on well with that you could ask to chat to him and suss things out? As much as you might want to help he might find it easier to talk to someone outside of immediate family. I'd suggest a counselor but based on what you've said it's doubtful he'd go.

Also does he play any sports (or did he in the past), could be good to encourage that. The discipline of a steady job would be a good thing too. If you do get someone to talk to him could be good to see what his thinking is on it.

Short term, at his age, that behaviour is ok, but if it becomes a long term pattern it can do bad things to your mind.

One of his more clued in friends said to us hes only interested in "earning quick handy money"

He had a decent manual labour job at 13.50 an hour in the sorting depot with a large parcel delivery company but he didnt apply for another 3.month contract because "the work is hardship"

We have asked him to apply for Dunnes etc but working there wouldn't be cool enough for him

HildaOgdenx

patmahe wrote: »

Is there an adult other than you that he gets on well with that you could ask to chat to him and suss things out? As much as you might want to help he might find it easier to talk to someone outside of immediate family. I'd suggest a counselor but based on what you've said it's doubtful he'd go.

Also does he play any sports (or did he in the past), could be good to encourage that. The discipline of a steady job would be a good thing too. If you do get someone to talk to him could be good to see what his thinking is on it.

Short term, at his age, that behaviour is ok, but if it becomes a long term pattern it can do bad things to your mind.

I was about to suggest something similar. A chat with someone outside of family, might help. Or an uncle/ aunt that he gets on well with, maybe.

I would encourage him meanwhile to look at courses to apply for, or to get some work, more permanent than he has, at present.

ETA - Just saw your latest post about working at Dunnes not being cool enough for him.

A year out is fine, I think, but long term drifting is different.

Sardonicat

AckwelFoley wrote: »

One of his more clued in friends said to us hes only interested in "earning quick handy money"

He had a decent manual labour job at 13.50 an hour in the sorting depot with a large parcel delivery company but he didnt apply for another 3.month contract because "the work is hardship"

We have asked him to apply for Dunnes etc but working there wouldn't be cool enough for him

In that case I think it's time to start upping the pressure here. Nothing apoplectic bit just a few changes to remind him that he's grown up now. You're obligation to house and feed him finished and you've been more than patient letting him enjoy his months since he left school . He needs to be handing up a decent rent, not merely a nominal sum, and he needs to contribute to the running of the house if he wishes to remain. That and as posted above, watching his mates move on and spread their wings could be motivators in getting him moving along in the right direction.

pjdarcy

Do you give him money when he's not working? My first inclination would be to cut him off financially so he'd be forced into looking for work.

AckwelFoley

pjdarcy wrote: »

Do you give him money when he's not working? My first inclination would be to cut him off financially so he'd be forced into looking for work.

No. He doesnt get any financial assistance from us directly like that

shesty

I think you are going the right way OP, and you know, New year, new rules, use the opportunity. Household jobs if he is at home, no financial support, that side of things.Charging some rent if possible-although it doesn't sound like he has an income at all??
He may become motivated by his pals moving on with their lives but at the same time, that might take a couple of years to sink in.I am assuming you would prefer him not to drift on like this for several years.
Did he fill out a CAO at all last year?
Have you sat down and had a conversation with him at all about what he thinks is going to happen over the next few years?And how it is going to happen?

AckwelFoley

shesty wrote: »

I think you are going the right way OP, and you know, New year, new rules, use the opportunity. Household jobs if he is at home, no financial support, that side of things.Charging some rent if possible-although it doesn't sound like he has an income at all??
He may become motivated by his pals moving on with their lives but at the same time, that might take a couple of years to sink in.I am assuming you would prefer him not to drift on like this for several years.
Did he fill out a CAO at all last year?
Have you sat down and had a conversation with him at all about what he thinks is going to happen over the next few years?And how it is going to happen?

He wont fill out a CAO because he doesn't want to go to college.

He doesn't want to get a trade because "they hardly get paid while they're training like" (yes he actually said that)

I just would like to see some enthusiasm..in something, anything at all at this point!

miamee

Disclaimer - I am not a parent.
However it sounds like your son has some delusions of grandeur and that other people might have to start at the bottom - but not him, he's too good for that! Dunnes not cool enough, trainees don't get paid enough, etc. That is poppycock by the way, depending on what trade you go into some trainees earn really good money while they are still in training.

I have a cousin with similar delusions of granduer. He lives at home with his parents, he has never had a full-time job, dropped out of college, told a relative that he would like to have a job 'if it was a good one'. He's 42 years of age with no experience still waiting for someone to knock on his front door with a 'good' job offer for him. Don't let that be you OP.

jlm29

What kind of odd jobs does he do for money? Is it something he could build on?
Honestly it sounds like he needs a bit of direction in the form of a kick up the bum. List of jobs that need to be done, more help around the house, your dinner on the table and fire lighting when ypu come in from work, etc.etc. I’m 36, and if I moved home, my parents would honestly put their feet down and object if I was staying in bed until 1 o clock, and out half the night, unless I was out at work until that time.

Sardonicat

AckwelFoley wrote: »

He wont fill out a CAO because he doesn't want to go to college.

He doesn't want to get a trade because "they hardly get paid while they're training like" (yes he actually said that)

I just would like to see some enthusiasm..in something, anything at all at this point!

Honestly, OP, it really is time to apply some 'negative pressure'. He's had his long post LC break (and honestly I don't really think there's anything all that wrong with that) but he has to wake up to reality, for his own sake, and you've got to 'help' him.

shesty

AckwelFoley wrote: »

He wont fill out a CAO because he doesn't want to go to college.

He doesn't want to get a trade because "they hardly get paid while they're training like" (yes he actually said that)

I just would like to see some enthusiasm..in something, anything at all at this point!

Ok, he needs a dose of reality.
I wouldn't be waiting for enthusiasm to show there OP, I think I would be heading for an ultimatum of some sort at this stage.Job or college by date X.
He is old enough to vote, he is old to realise that nobody is put on this earth to keep him (and that includes his parents).
If he won't get into a trade because they don't get paid,(and I would dispute that, having past experience of the building industry) then he should go off to labour on a building site...few months of that and his tune will change, believe me.
I can accept to a certain degree that 18 year olds might not know what to do with the rest of their lives but that doesn't mean they get to do nothing at all while they take some indefinite period of time to work it out.

AndrewJRenko

AckwelFoley wrote: »

This is the bit that gets under my skin.

Loves cars..and would love to go to New Zealand.

But doesnt want to save for either. Hes perplexed that we wont have him as a named driver on our insurance.

You have some leverage here.



"Sure, we'll be happy to put you on the insurance, provided that you ....."


Fill in the blanks yourself.

Loopylineking

miamee wrote: »

Disclaimer - I am not a parent.
However it sounds like your son has some delusions of grandeur and that other people might have to start at the bottom - but not him, he's too good for that! Dunnes not cool enough, trainees don't get paid enough, etc. That is poppycock by the way, depending on what trade you go into some trainees earn really good money while they are still in training.

I have a cousin with similar delusions of granduer. He lives at home with his parents, he has never had a full-time job, dropped out of college, told a relative that he would like to have a job 'if it was a good one'. He's 42 years of age with no experience still waiting for someone to knock on his front door with a 'good' job offer for him. Don't let that be you OP.

Know someone exactly like your describing and is signing on. 36 now and worked maybe six months of his life and that was work experience during college.I bring it up again and again but he says he’s not working minimum wage, he’s better than working minimum wage, thinks he is better than others as he finished college. He has an IT degree which is booming at the minute and endless amount of jobs. No car, still lives at home, On the dole 15 years now, even asks people he hasn’t seen a long time who are working did they go to college.

I tried to explain work is ****e but you get used to it and get into a routine after a few months but no, he’s not starting from the bottom.

He just wants stuff handed to him and thinks work is beneath him.

OP I’d nip this in the bud as soon as possible to be honest, make his own dinner, wash his own clothes etc and encourage him to get a job.

John Hutton

18 year old who is only interested in earning quick easy money?

Literally the only way he can do this is by selling drugs.

HildaOgdenx

AckwelFoley wrote: »

He wont fill out a CAO because he doesn't want to go to college.

He doesn't want to get a trade because "they hardly get paid while they're training like" (yes he actually said that)

I just would like to see some enthusiasm..in something, anything at all at this point!

Just thinking, OP, it might be a bit of nervousness/ uncertainty e.g. if going to college means moving out of home. Might be a bit of bravado, covering up by saying he doesn't want to go, doesn't want to get a trade etc.
I suppose, after being in school so long, and the certainty of it, (whether he liked it, or whether he didn't) he might just be struggling a bit to make the leap.
I would still encourage him to apply for courses, and maybe come September/ October, he might well feel a lot more ready. Get him to research apprenticeships also.

I agree too with telling him he needs to pull his weight and contribute, at home, in the meantime.
All the best.

jlm29

CAO deadline is probably Saturday? I would actually insist He fills in one just so he has the option of a change of mind form for the next while, rather than it automatically being a case of “Oh I missed the deadline, i must lie in bed for another year”

farmchoice

jlm29 wrote: »

CAO deadline is probably Saturday? I would actually insist He fills in one just so he has the option of a change of mind form for the next while, rather than it automatically being a case of “Oh I missed the deadline, i must lie in bed for another year”

absolutely, if you are not planning on going to college then in this life you have 2 choices,A. get an apprenticeship (an extremely good option for those who dont want a academic course) or B. get a job and start working, if you then wish to progress in that job or any other one thats your own business but you will have to cut your cloth to your measure after that.


an 18 year old with no qualifications and no training is above nothing, he is literally at the bottom of ladder, a 18 year old with 6 months experience on the trollies in Tesco is a better prospect for any employer in any job anywhere.

this young lad needs a dose of reality. it would be one thing if he was trying to find himself and struggling to decide what he was going to do but he would need some sort of working idea.
at his age i was very similar but at least i put up the bullsh1t pretense of applying for courses and looking into things. i was a bit lazy and a bit scared of moving on but i understood enough about the world to know at the very least i had to put a bit of effort into at least codding my parents that i was interested in a productive future.

from the way you are talking OP he is effectively giving you the 2 fingers, he is laughing at you.
can i ask what kind of leaving cert he got?

Naggdefy

Have you other children and are they good workers/motivated be it school, college, sports or work?

Has he always been unmotivated, not conscientious about whatever task he's assigned?

Possibly he's the 'lazy' one in the family. Can be difficult to know how to get the best out of them. Was he ill as a child? Treated differently than other siblings? Maybe a little pampered when younger?

P.s. Re reading your op I see he's the eldest.

AckwelFoley

farmchoice wrote: »

from the way you are talking OP he is effectively giving you the 2 fingers, he is laughing at you.
can i ask what kind of leaving cert he got?

A very basic one. No worse than my own. But when I was 30 months older than he is now I was in the bank getting a loan to buy a site to build a house having already bought a car and paid insurance on it and managed to fit 2 years of college in there aswell

wildlifeboy

why is everyone saying he's depressed, can you not remember being 18, he is acting completely normal imo.

beauf

This is really about motivation. How do you get someone motivated when the carrot or stick does not work and there are no other underlying issues.

Naggdefy

wildlifeboy wrote: »

why is everyone saying he's depressed, can you not remember being 18, he is acting completely normal imo.

I might have been a bit like that at 13/14 but by 18 you'd have grown out of that.

100 odd years ago the majority of soldiers (volunteers for the most part) in WW1 were around that age.

Same with our Independence War.

Funny how enthusiastic that age group was compared to today. Society has changed so much I suppose.