Middle class people deciding to go on the dole ?

Big Gerry

We hear alot about the "squeezed middle" who get nothing off the government and have to pay for everything.

I wonder are there any middle class people who just packed in their jobs and went on the dole because they didn't think it was worth commuting 4 hours a day to pay off a 30 year mortgage and paying massive child care bills when they could just go on the dole and get a free house free medical card and have more disposable income than if they were working.

Big Gerry

Big Gerry wrote: »

We hear alot about the "squeezed middle" who get nothing off the government and have to pay for everything.

I wonder are there any middle class people who just packed in their jobs and went on the dole because they didn't think it was worth commuting 4 hours a day to pay off a 30 year mortgage and paying massive child care bills when they could just go on the dole and get a free house free medical card and have more disposable income than if they were working.

We get it. Your life is shlt and you're annoyed that other people seemingly have it easier.

Do us a favour and just quit your job so you can report back to us on how good it was and tell us about how you don't hate your miserable existence anymore. You'll also have plenty of time to read the seventeen million other dole threads on this site.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Big Gerry wrote: »

We hear alot about the "squeezed middle" who get nothing off the government and have to pay for everything.

I wonder are there any middle class people who just packed in their jobs and went on the dole because they didn't think it was worth commuting 4 hours a day to pay off a 30 year mortgage and paying massive child care bills when they could just go on the dole and get a free house free medical card and have more disposable income than if they were working.

No, they don't have the guts

Seriously, there are other ways around that: working from home sorted me out and I know people who dorpped down to part time because they didn't need the extra income,

BuboBubo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We get it. Your life is shlt and you're annoyed that other people seemingly have it easier.

Do us a favour and just quit your job so you can report back to us on how good it was and tell us about how you don't hate your miserable existence anymore. You'll also have plenty of time to read the seventeen million other dole threads on this site.

Ah! I get great entertainment here when I'm working nights. Sitting in the canteen, two lads a few rows away staring at me as I sit alone laughing at my feckin phone.

Another thread that will disappear into the ether by the morning methinks...

Big Gerry

Deleted User wrote: »

We get it. Your life is shlt and you're annoyed that other people seemingly have it easier.

Do us a favour and just quit your job so you can report back to us on how good it was and tell us about how you don't hate your miserable existence anymore. You'll also have plenty of time to read the seventeen million other dole threads on this site.

I'm not passing judgment I'm just wondering if people have packed in their jobs to go on the dole because it wasn't worth their while working.

c.p.w.g.w

BuboBubo wrote: »

Ah! I get great entertainment here when I'm working nights. Sitting in the canteen, two lads a few rows away staring at me as I sit alone laughing at my feckin phone.

Another thread that will disappear into the ether by the morning methinks...

I might be one of those 2 people...chicken curry @2am

Leg End Reject

The problem is that you need to never work. You still owe the outstanding mortgage even if you quit work, you only qualify for help with the interest when you're in arrears, you don't qualify for social welfare if you voluntarily leave work etc.

It's very hard to leave the rat race once you're in it.

ChikiChiki

I could definitely see the merits in it for some. Used to work with a lad from Tipp who used to spend 2.5 hours a day each way commuting.

Probably was coming out with the guts if 1800 a month before tax and expenses. Bonkers! You would be way better off on the dole than that misery.

Think he was kind of stuck at it providing for a young family that rarely got to see him.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I could definitely see the merits in it for some. Used to work with a lad from Tipp who used to spend 2.5 hours a day each way commuting.

Probably was coming out with the guts if 1800 a month before tax and expenses. Bonkers! You would be way better off on the dole than that misery.

Think he was kind of stuck at it providing for a young family that rarely got to see him.

But perhaps he made some bad choices, or had a couple of kids when he was young and dumb... then had to live with the consequences of those choices?

I've worked some horrible jobs, with nightmarish start/finish times and commutes... but I don't have kids or a mortgage to pay, so I could walk away when things became too much!

When you scratch beneath the surface, many of these hard luck stories are at least partly self-inflicted by bad life choices... but people are loath to admit it.

Better Than Christ

Big Gerry wrote: »

We hear alot about the "squeezed middle" who get nothing off the government and have to pay for everything.

I wonder are there any middle class people who just packed in their jobs and went on the dole because they didn't think it was worth commuting 4 hours a day to pay off a 30 year mortgage and paying massive child care bills when they could just go on the dole and get a free house free medical card and have more disposable income than if they were working.

Probably not because it's shit being on the dole, especially when you're used to working. If I ever find myself unemployed again, and unable to find a job, I'll find something very high to jump off.

super_furry

Big Gerry wrote: »

We hear alot about the "squeezed middle" who get nothing off the government and have to pay for everything.

I wonder are there any middle class people who just packed in their jobs and went on the dole because they didn't think it was worth commuting 4 hours a day to pay off a 30 year mortgage and paying massive child care bills when they could just go on the dole and get a free house free medical card and have more disposable income than if they were working.

No. People don't do that because it's a **** life.

You seriously seem to have a complete lack of understanding of the housing system if you think you can just rock up, hand the keys back on your mortgaged home and ask for a council house.

Bigbagofcans

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Probably not because it's shit being on the dole, especially when you're used to working. If I ever find myself unemployed again, and unable to find a job, I'll find something very high to jump off.

Not everyone has a miserable life on the dole and we shouldn't assume otherwise.

My observations from some people on the dole:
Some volunteer in a charity shop a couple of days a week which they seem happy enough about.
They keep busy in other ways by doing courses, exercising, making the most of their free time.

If you're out of work, taking time off, retired, it's important to live within your means and keep busy in other ways. If your life is s**t not working, then you have to improve other areas of your life.

Your Face

I love you all.

Trigger Happy

I dont think anyone who is middle class and middle earner would want to be giving it all up to become a sponger. There is a big drop from middle earning to dole and social benefits.
Not to mention pride.

Big Gerry

Leg End Reject wrote: »

The problem is that you need to never work. You still owe the outstanding mortgage even if you quit work, you only qualify for help with the interest when you're in arrears, you don't qualify for social welfare if you voluntarily leave work etc.

It's very hard to leave the rat race once you're in it.

Someone could just declare themselves bankrupt or change their name and let the bank whistle for the mortgage payments.

If someone is on the dole there is nothing the bank can take from them.

Big Gerry

Trigger Happy wrote: »

I dont think anyone who is middle class and middle earner would want to be giving it all up to become a sponger. There is a big drop from middle earning to dole and social benefits.
Not to mention pride.

There is not really a big drop if someone is paying a massive mortgage and huge child care bills they may have no money left at the end of the week once all the bills are paid.

piplip87

Big Gerry wrote: »

There is not really a big drop if someone is paying a massive mortgage and huge child care bills they may have no money left at the end of the week once all the bills are paid.

Yes but at the end of the day the Mortgage will be paid, the kids will be reared and there will be money to spend then.

Rhyme

I think it would affect a persons mental health to go from earning and knowing what you had, you've paid for with your own money to go on the dole. I mean, the purpose of the dole is to help a person get a job, to go against that, long term, would certainly change a person for the worse. Then to raise a child who has known nothing but handouts, incredibly demoralising.

Trigger Happy

Big Gerry wrote: »

There is not really a big drop if someone is paying a massive mortgage and huge child care bills they may have no money left at the end of the week once all the bills are paid.

If they are not taking a big drop then they are not middle class as having very low disposable income, comparable to social welfare, would put them firmly in the working class category.

Loafing Oaf

OP doesn't your inability to come up with any genuine examples of this phenomenon suggest your perceptions of the 'reality' it was supposed to illustrate may be skewed?

machaseh

Being a foreign expat here in Ireland, what would happen if I would quit my job?

I wouldn't be getting on the dole anytime soon here. Most likely I would be evicted from my home and would end up in the streets shooting up dope. No thanks.

I could, of course, return to the Netherlands and live on the dole there. But even there it would take many months of bureaucratic nightmares to finally get on the dole, and then once I am on it I would be obligated to apply for an X amount of jobs every month + do community service labour such as cleaning up parks and the like.

you could also get a job that pays cash, this way you get to go on the dole at the same time.

Its a no-brainer OP

machaseh

Deleted User wrote: »

you could also get a job that pays cash, this way you get to go on the dole at the same time.

Its a no-brainer OP

You could yes, respectable trades such as stealing copper wires or breaking into homes and taking their belongings are generally cash based !

Trigger Happy

Trigger Happy wrote: »

If they are not taking a big drop then they are not middle class as having very low disposable income, comparable to social welfare, would put them firmly in the working class category.

A study was done in 2012 that suggested 44% of Irish families would be better off on the dole.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/esri-refuses-to-reveal-data-that-contradicts-tols-claims-26864918.html

What income would you class as "middle class"? A family on €40 - €50k renting wouldn't experience a huge drop on the dole.

Trigger Happy

Deleted User wrote: »

A study was done in 2012 that suggested 44% of Irish families would be better off on the dole.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/esri-refuses-to-reveal-data-that-contradicts-tols-claims-26864918.html

What income would you class as "middle class"? A family on €40 - €50k renting wouldn't experience a huge drop on the dole.

Disposable income, like I said.

machaseh

machaseh wrote: »

Being a foreign expat here in Ireland, what would happen if I would quit my job?

I wouldn't be getting on the dole anytime soon here. Most likely I would be evicted from my home and would end up in the streets shooting up dope. No thanks.

You shoot up dope

machaseh wrote: »

I could, of course, return to the Netherlands and live on the dole there. But even there it would take many months of bureaucratic nightmares to finally get on the dole, and then once I am on it I would be obligated to apply for an X amount of jobs every month + do community service labour such as cleaning up parks and the like.

Proper order. It should be the same here.

Grab All Association

On JSA you have to be actively seeking work to qualify and will be sanctioned if you don’t.

There’s always going to be an unemployment rate of <4% made up of undesirable characters with numerous past and pending convictions who will never be employed to pick up dog shïte on the street, never mind the likes of Tesco. Some of these people would have some mild form of learning difficulty that would exclude them from qualifying for the likes of Disability Allowance too.

If you want to pack it all in and sponge off the state, get bumped up the housing lists and bought off by the budget every year, then lone parent is the payment you go on by having a child every 7 years.

KiKi III

Trigger Happy wrote: »

Disposable income, like I said.

40-50k is two low wage jobs or one slightly above wage. As a household income, I wouldn’t describe it as middle class.

If it is, it’s on the lower end of it.

Trigger Happy

KiKi III wrote: »

40-50k is two low wage jobs or one slightly above wage. As a household income, I wouldn’t describe it as middle class.

If it is, it’s on the lower end of it.

There is no denying that. If a single person was on 50k with no high rent or mortgage to pay then they would be middle class earner IMO.
And the drop in income to become a sponger would not be something they would willingly do.

Steer55

Big Gerry wrote: »

We hear alot about the "squeezed middle" who get nothing off the government and have to pay for everything.

I wonder are there any middle class people who just packed in their jobs and went on the dole because they didn't think it was worth commuting 4 hours a day to pay off a 30 year mortgage and paying massive child care bills when they could just go on the dole and get a free house free medical card and have more disposable income than if they were working.

It really sounds very awful when you put it like that. I was watching Primetime last night and really felt sorry for the young couple considering emigration due to the awful commute to Dublin and their financial inability to.start a family, if I were in their shoes I would be gone too.

corsav6

machaseh wrote: »

Being a foreign expat here in Ireland, what would happen if I would quit my job?

I wouldn't be getting on the dole anytime soon here. Most likely I would be evicted from my home and would end up in the streets shooting up dope. No thanks.

I could, of course, return to the Netherlands and live on the dole there. But even there it would take many months of bureaucratic nightmares to finally get on the dole, and then once I am on it I would be obligated to apply for an X amount of jobs every month + do community service labour such as cleaning up parks and the like.

Shooting up dope? You're from the Netherlands?

road_high

No most middle class people have a thing called “self respect” and would rather have the dignity of providing for ones self. The welfare class are very lucky they still have this as things would be a lot less cushy if everyone had their attitude to work and self reliance

RandomViewer

Big Gerry wrote: »

Someone could just declare themselves bankrupt or change their name and let the bank whistle for the mortgage payments.

If someone is on the dole there is nothing the bank can take from them.

They can get a court order to take a percentage of benefits, you' ll also lose any assets you might have. Same commitments ,less money to meet them.

srsly78

RandomViewer wrote: »

They can get a court order to take a percentage of benefits, you' ll also lose any assets you might have. Same commitments ,less money to meet them.

Lose everything except family home.

Big Gerry

RandomViewer wrote: »

They can get a court order to take a percentage of benefits, you' ll also lose any assets you might have. Same commitments ,less money to meet them.

The only big asset most people have is their home.

Big Gerry

road_high wrote: »

No most middle class people have a thing called “self respect” and would rather have the dignity of providing for ones self. The welfare class are very lucky they still have this as things would be a lot less cushy if everyone had their attitude to work and self reliance

“self respect” isn't worth much if it puts you in an early grave due to the stress of working long hours and not been able to spend time with your family.

Always Tired

Big Gerry wrote: »

I'm not passing judgment I'm just wondering if people have packed in their jobs to go on the dole because it wasn't worth their while working.

No they don't, because it's better to be working and all their jumping up and down about how easy all the scroungers have it with big telly sky tv new cars and holidays is COMPLETE horsesh*t and they know it. They're just miserable cowards who can only punch down.

hurler32

If you are a married couple with 3 kids with only one working for circa 45K and lower you are better off unemployed especially if you dont enjoy your work.
Its 458 Euro on the dole , then you add medical cards, fuel allowance, Xmas bonus, Back to school allowances, Guaranteed college grants for the kids and rent allowance.

Not to mention the costs of travelling to work, cloths, lunchs etc. If youve a long commute it makes it worse again.

Loopylineking

Currently getting 49.5K a year gross as a single person outside of Dublin which is around 3100 a month. I would consider myself middle class.

My one bed apartment is 700 a month and car in total is say 300 a month.

That leaves me 2100 a month.

If I went on the Dole I would have to move back in with the parents which is not happening.

Saving 1300 a month for a mortgage which is tough so basically living on the dole at the minute. House are 150K in my area.

It might benefit young families but as a single male or female it does not whatsoever.

suicide_circus

so in paying your taxes, youre contributing to the sh1t life people on the dole are forced to live.

iamstop

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Probably not because it's shit being on the dole, especially when you're used to working. If I ever find myself unemployed again, and unable to find a job, I'll find something very high to jump off.

No need for that, just emigrate. That's what I did after too long on the dole.Now I'm doing decent for meself in Canada and gaining great experience along the way if I ever feel the urge to return to the motherland.

scamalert

someone who has been on both sides dole and working for almost 20 yrs, theres no fcking glory in being on dole standing in que to get handout, most get pissy about their taxes going to dole, but taxes are taxes never looked down on people who went into po to collect while working, id say bigger issues lie with work for most as some jobs for others are sitting on ass all day doing little to none, while some grind at factories 12h a day for a week to get just 200extra plus.


that said working anytime is 100 times better then dole, as at first yeah its great, but glory wears of within weeks when you realize that your sitting at home, and no social life, no income besides few hundred, **** like medical cards id imagine is good for those who have health issues, but for normal person id avoid docs here as you have better chance to heal while waiting to get appointment, but as another thread stated think theres minority who enjoy sitting in hospitals to get some attention.

touts

As soon as the mortgage is paid off I am out of here. And that will be long before I hit 68 no matter what Leo and Pascal want.

4068ac1elhodqr

Give it another 10yrs or so when UBI gets forced unto the populus (whether you like it or not),
The robots will be doing all the grunt work, therefore most human assest will become redundant.

The only small risk factor would be hyper-inflation, but the quantum AI all-knowing cloud-conscious master will figure that out too.

enricoh

A friend of mine packed in her job , hubby still works though.
Got sick of sitting on the m50 panicking about getting back to the creche in time, not seeing kids etc.
She minds a neighbours 2 kids , 1 is in school n collects him etc. Gets a few quid on the side from that. Nearly no difference in income, when factoring in creche, no tolls, less diesel n wear n tear.
Intends to go back at something in a few years.

monty_python

For the past 7 years I have worked 8 months per year and willfully took 4 months off.
Some years I take the dole. Some years I go traveling.
Why should I spend my whole life working when I don't need to?? Fook that .
Bunch of slaves

SEPT 23 1989

monty_python wrote: »

For the past 7 years I have worked 8 months per year and willfully took 4 months off.
Some years I take the dole. Some years I go traveling.
Why should I spend my whole life working when I don't need to?? Fook that .
Bunch of slaves

Teacher?

Friend of mine hasn't worked in 12 years, she is a single parent with 3 kids.
She has no intention of going back to work.
She would have to get a job paying about 100,000 a year to come out with the same money she gets now.
Hasn't paid a penny off the mortgage in 8 Years.
So, she didn't pack work in to go on the dole, but now she is on social welfare, she is better off then if she worked.

Paul_Hacket

The main problem for the middle class in Dublin is simply that too many people are trying to work in too small an area. What the f does that have to do with people being on the dole?

There isn't enough housing in greater Dublin and we lack an adequate transport infrastructure to bring people from surrounding counties where housing is reasonably affordable into the city. There are only three possible solutions to this:

• Increase the density of housing in Dublin city. This would require compulsory purchase orders on low rise parts of the inner city. Would also require the planning laws to be changed to allow high rise apartment buildings in the city centre. No government has had the balls to do either of these.
  
• Build a proper grown-up transport system e.g. an actual subway for city proper and light rail network reaching out into the surrounding counties. This should have been done long ago but is again something the parties don't seem to have the nerve to do as it is expensive in the short term and would also require compulsory purchase orders in order to build it out.
  
• Massively decentralize both private and public employment. This has been tried using various carrot and stick approaches, both with the civil service and with grants etc. to private industry to encourage relocation to other parts of the country. It largely hasn't worked, or hasn't worked to a sufficient degree. Of all possible solutions it is the least likely to succeed as it requires both individuals and companies to co-operate, something that is almost impossible to force them to do.

The logical solution is to expand the city outwards and upwards, build better transport links (not just another Luas branch line or other half arsed childish nonsense) and then do all of the things that other cities do to reduce congestion in city centers (e.g. congestion charges, having a subway for internal movement, etc.).

All of this is expensive. All of it requires a certain amount of short-term sacrifice both by the tax payer and by people who will be affected by construction etc. Certain areas would basically have to be bulldozed in order to do it - the sort of thing that cities like Paris and New York went through in the 19th and 20th centuries in order to modernize.

The problem is that with planning and infrastructure projects like this we only seem to think in the short term and are massively unambitious. We could have built a subway during the boom but nobody had the balls or foresight to push it through. I don't know if anyone else here has noticed but we live in a ridiculously wet climate. Having people standing around at bus stops and Luas stops is moronic. Dart stations aren't much better. Hence everyone wants to sit in their car to get to their job.

The commuter situation in Dublin is simply down to a childish refusal on the part of populace to support these measures and cowardice on the part of various governments to push them through. We're just reaping what we've sown.

Trying to blame people on the dole (!) for the craptastic situation of middle class commuters in Dublin who are squeezed between ridiculously high housing costs versus insane commuter journeys is a perfect example of scapegoating. If the dole and housing allowances were eradicated tomorrow it would do zilch to solve this problem.

andekwarhola

I've often heard of middle class people swapping jobs for benefits. It's called a recession.

andekwarhola

bubblypop wrote: »

Friend of mine hasn't worked in 12 years, she is a single parent with 3 kids.
She has no intention of going back to work.
She would have to get a job paying about 100,000 a year to come out with the same money she gets now.
Hasn't paid a penny off the mortgage in 8 Years.
So, she didn't pack work in to go on the dole, but now she is on social welfare, she is better off then if she worked.

She's clearing close to 5k net a month as a single mother on benefits with three kids?