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Middle class people deciding to go on the dole ?

Big Gerry

We hear alot about the "squeezed middle" who get nothing off the government and have to pay for everything.

I wonder are there any middle class people who just packed in their jobs and went on the dole because they didn't think it was worth commuting 4 hours a day to pay off a 30 year mortgage and paying massive child care bills when they could just go on the dole and get a free house free medical card and have more disposable income than if they were working.

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road_high

No most middle class people have a thing called “self respect” and would rather have the dignity of providing for ones self. The welfare class are very lucky they still have this as things would be a lot less cushy if everyone had their attitude to work and self reliance

RandomViewer

Big Gerry wrote: »

Someone could just declare themselves bankrupt or change their name and let the bank whistle for the mortgage payments.

If someone is on the dole there is nothing the bank can take from them.

They can get a court order to take a percentage of benefits, you' ll also lose any assets you might have. Same commitments ,less money to meet them.

srsly78

RandomViewer wrote: »

They can get a court order to take a percentage of benefits, you' ll also lose any assets you might have. Same commitments ,less money to meet them.

Lose everything except family home.

Big Gerry

RandomViewer wrote: »

They can get a court order to take a percentage of benefits, you' ll also lose any assets you might have. Same commitments ,less money to meet them.

The only big asset most people have is their home.

Big Gerry

road_high wrote: »

No most middle class people have a thing called “self respect” and would rather have the dignity of providing for ones self. The welfare class are very lucky they still have this as things would be a lot less cushy if everyone had their attitude to work and self reliance

“self respect” isn't worth much if it puts you in an early grave due to the stress of working long hours and not been able to spend time with your family.

Always Tired

Big Gerry wrote: »

I'm not passing judgment I'm just wondering if people have packed in their jobs to go on the dole because it wasn't worth their while working.

No they don't, because it's better to be working and all their jumping up and down about how easy all the scroungers have it with big telly sky tv new cars and holidays is COMPLETE horsesh*t and they know it. They're just miserable cowards who can only punch down.

hurler32

If you are a married couple with 3 kids with only one working for circa 45K and lower you are better off unemployed especially if you dont enjoy your work.
Its 458 Euro on the dole , then you add medical cards, fuel allowance, Xmas bonus, Back to school allowances, Guaranteed college grants for the kids and rent allowance.

Not to mention the costs of travelling to work, cloths, lunchs etc. If youve a long commute it makes it worse again.

Loopylineking

Currently getting 49.5K a year gross as a single person outside of Dublin which is around 3100 a month. I would consider myself middle class.

My one bed apartment is 700 a month and car in total is say 300 a month.

That leaves me 2100 a month.

If I went on the Dole I would have to move back in with the parents which is not happening.

Saving 1300 a month for a mortgage which is tough so basically living on the dole at the minute. House are 150K in my area.

It might benefit young families but as a single male or female it does not whatsoever.

suicide_circus

so in paying your taxes, youre contributing to the sh1t life people on the dole are forced to live.

iamstop

Better Than Christ wrote: »

Probably not because it's shit being on the dole, especially when you're used to working. If I ever find myself unemployed again, and unable to find a job, I'll find something very high to jump off.

No need for that, just emigrate. That's what I did after too long on the dole.Now I'm doing decent for meself in Canada and gaining great experience along the way if I ever feel the urge to return to the motherland.

scamalert

someone who has been on both sides dole and working for almost 20 yrs, theres no fcking glory in being on dole standing in que to get handout, most get pissy about their taxes going to dole, but taxes are taxes never looked down on people who went into po to collect while working, id say bigger issues lie with work for most as some jobs for others are sitting on ass all day doing little to none, while some grind at factories 12h a day for a week to get just 200extra plus.

that said working anytime is 100 times better then dole, as at first yeah its great, but glory wears of within weeks when you realize that your sitting at home, and no social life, no income besides few hundred, **** like medical cards id imagine is good for those who have health issues, but for normal person id avoid docs here as you have better chance to heal while waiting to get appointment, but as another thread stated think theres minority who enjoy sitting in hospitals to get some attention.

touts

As soon as the mortgage is paid off I am out of here. And that will be long before I hit 68 no matter what Leo and Pascal want.

4068ac1elhodqr

Give it another 10yrs or so when UBI gets forced unto the populus (whether you like it or not),
The robots will be doing all the grunt work, therefore most human assest will become redundant.

The only small risk factor would be hyper-inflation, but the quantum AI all-knowing cloud-conscious master will figure that out too.

enricoh

A friend of mine packed in her job , hubby still works though.
Got sick of sitting on the m50 panicking about getting back to the creche in time, not seeing kids etc.
She minds a neighbours 2 kids , 1 is in school n collects him etc. Gets a few quid on the side from that. Nearly no difference in income, when factoring in creche, no tolls, less diesel n wear n tear.
Intends to go back at something in a few years.

monty_python

For the past 7 years I have worked 8 months per year and willfully took 4 months off.
Some years I take the dole. Some years I go traveling.
Why should I spend my whole life working when I don't need to?? Fook that .
Bunch of slaves

SEPT 23 1989

monty_python wrote: »

For the past 7 years I have worked 8 months per year and willfully took 4 months off.
Some years I take the dole. Some years I go traveling.
Why should I spend my whole life working when I don't need to?? Fook that .
Bunch of slaves

Teacher?

[Deleted User]

Friend of mine hasn't worked in 12 years, she is a single parent with 3 kids.
She has no intention of going back to work.
She would have to get a job paying about 100,000 a year to come out with the same money she gets now.
Hasn't paid a penny off the mortgage in 8 Years.
So, she didn't pack work in to go on the dole, but now she is on social welfare, she is better off then if she worked.

Paul_Hacket

The main problem for the middle class in Dublin is simply that too many people are trying to work in too small an area. What the f does that have to do with people being on the dole?

There isn't enough housing in greater Dublin and we lack an adequate transport infrastructure to bring people from surrounding counties where housing is reasonably affordable into the city. There are only three possible solutions to this:

Increase the density of housing in Dublin city. This would require compulsory purchase orders on low rise parts of the inner city. Would also require the planning laws to be changed to allow high rise apartment buildings in the city centre. No government has had the balls to do either of these.
Build a proper grown-up transport system e.g. an actual subway for city proper and light rail network reaching out into the surrounding counties. This should have been done long ago but is again something the parties don't seem to have the nerve to do as it is expensive in the short term and would also require compulsory purchase orders in order to build it out.
Massively decentralize both private and public employment. This has been tried using various carrot and stick approaches, both with the civil service and with grants etc. to private industry to encourage relocation to other parts of the country. It largely hasn't worked, or hasn't worked to a sufficient degree. Of all possible solutions it is the least likely to succeed as it requires both individuals and companies to co-operate, something that is almost impossible to force them to do.

The logical solution is to expand the city outwards and upwards, build better transport links (not just another Luas branch line or other half arsed childish nonsense) and then do all of the things that other cities do to reduce congestion in city centers (e.g. congestion charges, having a subway for internal movement, etc.).

All of this is expensive. All of it requires a certain amount of short-term sacrifice both by the tax payer and by people who will be affected by construction etc. Certain areas would basically have to be bulldozed in order to do it - the sort of thing that cities like Paris and New York went through in the 19th and 20th centuries in order to modernize.

The problem is that with planning and infrastructure projects like this we only seem to think in the short term and are massively unambitious. We could have built a subway during the boom but nobody had the balls or foresight to push it through. I don't know if anyone else here has noticed but we live in a ridiculously wet climate. Having people standing around at bus stops and Luas stops is moronic. Dart stations aren't much better. Hence everyone wants to sit in their car to get to their job.

The commuter situation in Dublin is simply down to a childish refusal on the part of populace to support these measures and cowardice on the part of various governments to push them through. We're just reaping what we've sown.

Trying to blame people on the dole (!) for the craptastic situation of middle class commuters in Dublin who are squeezed between ridiculously high housing costs versus insane commuter journeys is a perfect example of scapegoating. If the dole and housing allowances were eradicated tomorrow it would do zilch to solve this problem.

andekwarhola

I've often heard of middle class people swapping jobs for benefits. It's called a recession.

andekwarhola

bubblypop wrote: »

Friend of mine hasn't worked in 12 years, she is a single parent with 3 kids.
She has no intention of going back to work.
She would have to get a job paying about 100,000 a year to come out with the same money she gets now.
Hasn't paid a penny off the mortgage in 8 Years.
So, she didn't pack work in to go on the dole, but now she is on social welfare, she is better off then if she worked.

She's clearing close to 5k net a month as a single mother on benefits with three kids?

[Deleted User]

andekwarhola wrote: »

She's clearing close to 5k net a month as a single mother on benefits with three kids?

Not far off it yeah, that includes money from the father also though.

Well maybe a grand less then that. But still not worth going to work for her

starbaby2003

bubblypop wrote: »

Not far off it yeah, that includes money from the father also though.

Well maybe a grand less then that. But still not worth going to work for her

Can you quantify those figures ? The amount the father gives would remain irrespective of work or not. However I understand the amount given by the father is deducted from the single parents allowance ?

[Deleted User]

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Can you quantify those figures ? The amount the father gives would remain irrespective of work or not. However I understand the amount given by the father is deducted from the single parents allowance ?

Ah Tbh, I'm not going to give my friends details on here! But the maintenance is in cash & is not declared.
She's not doing anything wrong, apart from not declaring that. She receives what she is entitled to, the point is that it honestly wouldn't pay her to go to work & pay for childcare etc.

beggars_bush

Having children shouldn't entitle you to be able to live off the state for nothing

Not much prospect for those children I'm afraid if their main care cover has zero ambition for her life

starbaby2003

bubblypop wrote: »

Ah Tbh, I'm not going to give my friends details on here! But the maintenance is in cash & is not declared.
She's not doing anything wrong, apart from not declaring that. She receives what she is entitled to, the point is that it honestly wouldn't pay her to go to work & pay for childcare etc.

I doubt figures would identify someone. There is a massive difference between needing to earn a100k to maintain the same level of income and it not paying to work. We hear a lot of these stories of friends, neighbours etc but when the real figures are shown usually the ‘big income’ they get is rent allowance or HAP. People forget that it’s not their fault a two bed flat now in Ballygobakwards cost around 1800€ to rent. I think these stories are damaging and unhelpful to people who are in situations where they are reliant on social welfare.

andekwarhola

bubblypop wrote: »

Not far off it yeah, that includes money from the father also though

What has a stipend from her father got to do with benefits.

Also, now that's cleared - how is she clearing 4k net for her and 3 kids?

starbaby2003

starbaby2003 wrote: »

I doubt figures would identify someone. There is a massive difference between needing to earn a100k to maintain the same level of income and it not paying to work. We hear a lot of these stories of friends, neighbours etc but when the real figures are shown usually the ‘big income’ they get is rent allowance or HAP. People forget that it’s not their fault a two bed flat now in Ballygobakwards cost around 1800€ to rent. I think these stories are damaging and unhelpful to people who are in situations where they are reliant on social welfare.

So 305 a week - single parent 3X kids under 12. This is what the social welfare are saying she gets. Clearly NO exaggeration on your part

[Deleted User]

machaseh wrote: »

You could yes, respectable trades such as stealing copper wires or breaking into homes and taking their belongings are generally cash based !

you didn't pick up on my sarcasm.

All jokes aside though, where I used to live, everyone and their dogs were 'on the double' as they called it.

Steer55

bubblypop wrote: »

Not far off it yeah, that includes money from the father also though.

Well maybe a grand less then that. But still not worth going to work for her

When her youngest child turns 12, I believe she will have to go out to work.

hurler32

If you are a working in a couple set up with 3 kids plus and only one is working and earning less than 45K- in that scenario if you take on a mortgage with payments of 700 plus you are worse off than the same couple on benefits with their rent allowance.

Bottom line middle income people with a mortgage can be worse off than benefits cases with no mortgage....if you earn 70K of course you are better off working but not by as much as you think. Single people are nearly always better off working but not couples with one income and a mortgage or indeed having to pay their own rent.