No right wing alternative= No alternative

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

They have no obligation to stay here, they are our one golden goose

How are they a golden goose? Jobs? They dont even hide the fact that their strategy is to hire globally. In turn attracting more immigration and strain to our infrastructure, services, housing and rental markets. Yet they do not contribute a penny.

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote:

The elderly dole ( state pension) is far too high

Planning to stay employed, forever?

Deleted User wrote:

How are they a golden goose? Jobs? They dont even hide the fact that their strategy is to hire globally. In turn attracting more immigration and strain to our infrastructure, services, housing and rental markets. Yet they do not contribute a penny.

To be fair, they do actually pay something, but it would be nice if they started by paying the full amount they're suppose to, and I do think this should be partly paid in stocks and shares, and placed into a sovereign wealth fund

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Planning to stay employed, forever?




To be fair, they do actually pay something, but it would be nice if they started by paying the full amount they're suppose to, and I do think this should be partly paid in stocks and shares, and placed into a sovereign wealth fund

Private pension

Wanderer78

Mad_maxx wrote:

Private pension

What if it collapses? What if some cannot afford one?

Mad_maxx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How are they a golden goose? Jobs? They dont even hide the fact that their strategy is to hire globally. In turn attracting more immigration and strain to our infrastructure, services, housing and rental markets. Yet they do not contribute a penny.

Our success in becoming the European HQ for many of the world's largest companies is our greatest economic achievement, without this, we are nothing special, there is no good reason why this country should be as wealthy as it is

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Our success in becoming the European HQ for many of the world's largest companies is our greatest economic achievement, without this, we are nothing special, there is no good reason why this country should be as wealthy as it is

You can still have that and make them pay taxes.

The Nal

Deleted User wrote: »

You can still have that and make them pay taxes.

Most of them do.

The Nal

The Nal wrote: »

Most of them do.

Nice one, it's all good so. :-/

whippet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can still have that and make them pay taxes.

It’s not as clear cut as that.

But the populist mantra does try to make it sound like that.

The populist mantra does also tend to ignore the value to the economy over the last few decades of the jobs which these multinationals have created in Ireland.

If the multinationals didn’t create them .. they wouldn’t exist. The favourable tax environment in Ireland was one of the primary reasons these companies created these jobs and as such they will move in a heart beat if the favourable environment goes.

The income tax net is far too narrow here ... too many PAYE workers pay little or no income tax during a life time of working .. while the middle income earners pay a lions share.

Brian?

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Keep up he's been mentioned and also mentioned that he's not really left so to speak even left a left party due to his views!.

I'm talking lefty party members

Socialist Party
Sinn Fein
People Before Profit
Rise
Solidarity
Labour
Anti Austerity Alliance
Socialist Workers party
Workers Party
Communist party


Still waiting on the poster who said you can be left and pro life to offer one example of a politician this way in Ireland!.

Give over with your "pro life" nonsense. People who are pro choice aren't anti life. We just believe women should have the right to choose. I am pro life, I would do everything in my power to convince someone I know not to have an abortion. But I don't believe in legislating woman's right to choose.

There was a time when right wing/conservative people believed in minimal government intervention in people's lives.

Brian?

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Well we agree to disagree so.

I don't see them as left, they admit to being conservative and social democrats. Two things alien to the left.

You don't think Social Democrats are left wing? With all dues respect, I honestly don't think you have a clue what you're talking about.

Wanderer78

whippet wrote:

If the multinationals didn’t create them .. they wouldn’t exist. The favourable tax environment in Ireland was one of the primary reasons these companies created these jobs and as such they will move in a heart beat if the favourable environment goes.

There's no question our favorable corporate tax regime has done incredible things for our country, but the bulk of taxation cannot keep falling on the shoulders of our citizen's, it's unsustainable, we re in desperate need of more, and we, the citizens cannot keep doing this. Wealth accumulation by corporations is becoming dangerous, this is a global problem, expect changes here soon, we should prepare for it now, and I truly do believe partly payment of taxes should be paid in stocks and shares is probably the best way forward

whippet

whippet wrote: »

It’s not as clear cut as that.

But the populist mantra does try to make it sound like that.

The populist mantra does also tend to ignore the value to the economy over the last few decades of the jobs which these multinationals have created in Ireland.

If the multinationals didn’t create them .. they wouldn’t exist. The favourable tax environment in Ireland was one of the primary reasons these companies created these jobs and as such they will move in a heart beat if the favourable environment goes.

The income tax net is far too narrow here ... too many PAYE workers pay little or no income tax during a life time of working .. while the middle income earners pay a lions share.

A high percentage of employment is offered to foreign workers. By this I mean they bring people into the country. Yes they also hire irish citizens (of all nationalities). I am not saying get rid of them, I'm saying they need to pay.more taxes and actively contribute to society other than offering jobs. By the way, the salary earned by an employee and the taxes paid from that salary are in return for work, work which increases their profits. I hate when people say they are giving us jobs as if we owe them something for it.

whippet

Deleted User wrote: »

A high percentage of employment is offered to foreign workers. By this I mean they bring people into the country. Yes they also hire irish citizens (of all nationalities). I am not saying get rid of them, I'm saying they need to pay.more taxes and actively contribute to society other than offering jobs. By the way, the salary earned by an employee and the taxes paid from that salary are in return for work, work which increases their profits. I hate when people say they are giving us jobs as if we owe them something for it.

that's far to simple a narrative.

do you know what portion of jobs in Google, FaceBook, Apple, MS etc are filled by people who are not already living in ireland?

These are generally middle to high earning jobs of which carry income tax burden in the higher brackets - these people have higher than normal disposable income which in turn is spent in the local economy with all the associated economic benefits.

The docks in dublin would still be a waste land if it wasn't for these companies.

Another knock on effect of these jobs is the requirement for 3rd level educational facilities to supply graduates.

I have a couple of siblings who are senior software and networking engineers working with these multinationals - The would have to leave ireland to work if they didn't have a presence here. These are high six figure jobs with all the associated PAYE taxes etc.

So I can't subscribe to the narrative that they offer nothing to ireland.

whippet

Deleted User wrote: »

A high percentage of employment is offered to foreign workers. By this I mean they bring people into the country. Yes they also hire irish citizens (of all nationalities). I am not saying get rid of them, I'm saying they need to pay.more taxes and actively contribute to society other than offering jobs. By the way, the salary earned by an employee and the taxes paid from that salary are in return for work, work which increases their profits. I hate when people say they are giving us jobs as if we owe them something for it.

Do you know what % or are you just assuming ?

Our corporate tax take is in the region of €7bn per annum. While I accept that the global corporation tax and revenue transfer system is murky - there is no position where by the Irish state could ever argue that the profits made by these companies are based on revenue in ireland on business done in ireland.

If we were to tax these irish made / irish realised profits the actual corporate tax take would probably be the same and they would pay similar taxes in other EU states all the while having no good reason to invest as much as they do in ireland,

whippet

whippet wrote: »

that's far to simple a narrative.

do you know what portion of jobs in Google, FaceBook, Apple, MS etc are filled by people who are not already living in ireland?

These are generally middle to high earning jobs of which carry income tax burden in the higher brackets - these people have higher than normal disposable income which in turn is spent in the local economy with all the associated economic benefits.

The docks in dublin would still be a waste land if it wasn't for these companies.

Another knock on effect of these jobs is the requirement for 3rd level educational facilities to supply graduates.

I have a couple of siblings who are senior software and networking engineers working with these multinationals - The would have to leave ireland to work if they didn't have a presence here. These are high six figure jobs with all the associated PAYE taxes etc.

So I can't subscribe to the narrative that they offer nothing to ireland.

Your salary is payment for services rendered. You've already provide your skills, expertise and experience to the company with the outcome of increasing their profits. That's a separate thing to a company paying their taxes and contributing to society. They need to pay taxes for the priveledge of operating in ireland. To suggest they wouldn't be here if we do that. were just a nation of fools that has nothing to offer is exactly what they want you to think.

We have an open, globalised, english speaking economy that allows them to operate at a level not on offer in any other country. They should pay for the privelidge of running their businesses here.

whippet

Deleted User wrote: »

We have an open, globalised, english speaking economy that allows them to operate at a level not on offer in any other country. They should pay for the privelidge of running their businesses here.

wow .... just wow.

Multinational will move to where they can maximise profits and reduce their tax burden - this is fact and will never change.

if you think you can lump a 'paddy tax' on them and they will not run a mile you are living in la la land - the lure of decent pints of guinness, the irish brogue and green fields means nothing to the decision makers back in the US - the shareholders and fund manager who only care about a number on a spreadsheet.

History has shown how quickly these multinational moved manufacturing to lower cost economies over night - it has happened before and left communities in the sh1te over night.

The Nal

Lonesomerhodes wrote: »

Yep but they don't get a look in the media. Not one peep.

They are however having a meet up next week so see how that goes.

Think John Waters is a great speaker on freedom of speech.

You've clearly been radicalised by social media. Its a real thing and you're a textbook case. Like clones of each other who say the exact same thing with the exact same opinions and who run away when questioned.

I find it equal parts fascinating and sad.

Mad_maxx

Wanderer78 wrote: »

What if it collapses? What if some cannot afford one?

Private pensions don't collapse, you divert into bonds or cash for the last ten years of your working life

Most people can afford more than they claim, live more frugally and prioritise

Mad_maxx

whippet wrote: »

It’s not as clear cut as that.

But the populist mantra does try to make it sound like that.

The populist mantra does also tend to ignore the value to the economy over the last few decades of the jobs which these multinationals have created in Ireland.

If the multinationals didn’t create them .. they wouldn’t exist. The favourable tax environment in Ireland was one of the primary reasons these companies created these jobs and as such they will move in a heart beat if the favourable environment goes.

The income tax net is far too narrow here ... too many PAYE workers pay little or no income tax during a life time of working .. while the middle income earners pay a lions share.

The welfare state is also too fat

Mad_maxx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A high percentage of employment is offered to foreign workers. By this I mean they bring people into the country. Yes they also hire irish citizens (of all nationalities). I am not saying get rid of them, I'm saying they need to pay.more taxes and actively contribute to society other than offering jobs. By the way, the salary earned by an employee and the taxes paid from that salary are in return for work, work which increases their profits. I hate when people say they are giving us jobs as if we owe them something for it.

The kind of foreigners who are employed by FB and Google etc are no strain on the tax payer

Mad_maxx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Your salary is payment for services rendered. You've already provide your skills, expertise and experience to the company with the outcome of increasing their profits. That's a separate thing to a company paying their taxes and contributing to society. They need to pay taxes for the priveledge of operating in ireland. To suggest they wouldn't be here if we do that. were just a nation of fools that has nothing to offer is exactly what they want you to think.

We have an open, globalised, english speaking economy that allows them to operate at a level not on offer in any other country. They should pay for the privelidge of running their businesses here.

You think our workforce are extra special and it's this that keeps the mega corporates here?

I Am The Law

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The kind of foreigners who are employed by FB and Google etc are no strain on the tax payer

And it's time to address the type of foreigner that is a strain, how many are here? How do they earn a living? Do they 'Western Union' money out of country without paying tax?

Eric Cartman

I Am The Law wrote: »

And it's time to address the type of foreigner that is a strain, how many are here? How do they earn a living? Do they 'Western Union' money out of country without paying tax?

The countries of origin of the high income foreign tech worker and the non income welfare recipient who western unions money home bare little crossover, it is possible also to welcome foreigners who pay tax on their high skilled income while also wanting the border closed to those who cannot contribute more than they take

Tony EH

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The elderly dole ( state pension) is far too high

You'll be refusing it when the time comes then I'm sure, mr internet bigshot. :pac:

Tony EH

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Private pension

For now you do. That may change.

From the content of your drivel on here, I'd take a guess that you are quite young and have a lot to learn about how the real world works.

If that's not the case, then you're in deeper trouble.

Either way, life is not static. What you have currently, you may not have in the future and if the shit does hit the fan for you, all of your big talk on here won't help you then.

And that goes for all the rest of the internet hardshaws out there.

Tony EH

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Our success in becoming the European HQ for many of the world's largest companies is our greatest economic achievement, without this, we are nothing special, there is no good reason why this country should be as wealthy as it is

That doesn't stop any business paying their, already EXTREMELY LOW, tax contributions.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The countries of origin of the high income foreign tech worker and the non income welfare recipient who western unions money home bare little crossover, it is possible also to welcome foreigners who pay tax on their high skilled income while also wanting the border closed to those who cannot contribute more than they take

Some recognition needs to be made to see that some nationalities just aren't prepared to live in a first world nation. A variety of skills are needed, not just those for employment, but also language skills (or at least the proven ability to acquire a language) which are useful for social integration. I'm not a fan of unplanned and unrestrained multiculturalism. Not demanding a level requirement in language encourages the creation of Ghetto style residential areas where particular nationalities live separately to others and promote their own language/culture to replace the domestic/local language. (Consider Frankfurt with the Turks)

I'd say that there is little logic in allowing immigration for groups of people who are lacking in education, and the language of their desired country. If they come here for work, then they should be able to speak an adequate amount of that language, but also have some minimum skills to ensure that they are employable. Ireland (and other European countries) doesn't need more people who can only do the jobs most likely to be replaced by automation...

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The kind of foreigners who are employed by FB and Google etc are no strain on the tax payer

Rent crisis
Housing crisis
Infrastructure and services

The country literally cannot cope with the level of immigration.

And btw, I never mentioned a "kind" that was actually you trying to drag the debate down to a level where you can avoid the real issues.

Mad_maxx

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The welfare state is also too fat

In comparison to what? Just because you say something is so doesn't mean it is? Of the 36 OECD counties social welfare spending as a percentage of GDP, we come in 5th last. Multinationals having their headquarters here does tend to inflate our GDP, so if you look at social spending per capita instead we come in about half way, just behind the US.

The elderly dole ( state pension) is far too high

Again, in comparison to other countries that's not true. Pensions are compared across counties by the using Net pension replacement rates. In the OECD we come 3rd last.