Alcohol and Work

Thecowboy1981

Diceicle wrote: »

Can't amend an existing contract.

There is no contract in place actually. OP, now is the time to get out contracts with nice little drug and alcohol clauses in them.

TheBoyConor

mrslancaster wrote: »

Is this even possible? I thought companies had to follow a procedure to fire an employee of they could end up with a claim for unfair dismissal.
If the business was being reorganised and the job was redundant thats different, not sure about above

You wouldn't be firing her or letting her go. You are just offering to cut a deal aside from all contracts. If she would voluntarily hand in her resignation, the company gratefully accept and will offer her a lump of money in exchange.

It might actually work. Many many alcoholics are very cash strapped and desperate as they drink their money. She might jump at the chance to take a big ball of cash that she can pay a few overdue bills and loans with. What she does with it isn't of any concern. perhaps she can piss the rest of it up the wall, or die of alcohol poisoning, who cares really.

If she doesn't accept the deal, then what harm? You are just back to where you started and can look at a formal disciplinary process to dismiss her.

CrankyHaus

TheBoyConor wrote: »

You wouldn't be firing her or letting her go. You are just offering to cut a deal aside from all contracts. If she would voluntarily hand in her resignation, the company gratefully accept and will offer her a lump of money in exchange.

It might actually work. Many many alcoholics are very cash strapped and desperate as they drink their money. She might jump at the chance to take a big ball of cash that she can pay a few overdue bills with and perhaps piss the rest of it up the wall.

If she doesn't accept the deal, then what harm? You are just back to where you started and can look at a formal disciplinary process to dismiss her.

She could take the money, leave and then bring an action for wrongful dismissal, alleging that the actions of the OP's wife constituted constructive dismissal.

Even if she had a weak case it would be a big headache for the owners, and I doubt they'd thank the OP's wife for creating this problem off her own bat. Which begs the question why is she bothered if they aren't?

The same goes for the genius suggestion of making her sign a new contract with hidden conditions and then ambushing her with substance testing to get grounds for immediate dismissal.

Get Real

skooterblue2 wrote: »

She has no permanent contract on paper, none of the staff have for years.

This is by no means legal advice, but my opinion would be just because she doesn't have a permanent contract, doesn't mean she's a temporary employee.

I would assume that being there ten years, she is permanent and any legislation trumps a contract (or no contract). In fact having no written contract probably secures her even more.

There's no written terms backing up the employer on what isn't acceptable.

Furthermore, a temporary contract can only be renewed up until the 4th year, regardless of what the contract says, the law says that after 4, the person is a permanent employee.

It's a bit like housing legislation in that, someone may have a contract stipulating 1 week kick out notice, but it's worthless as the law supercedes that and guarantees a minimum of 28 days.

It's my opinion that the law sides with the employee here in that she is not temporary. There are various means, and proper procedures to be followed in removing her for her conduct. Record and right down everything in dealing with her and give many forms of notice.

TheBoyConor

CrankyHaus wrote: »

She could take the money, leave and then bring an action for wrongful dismissal, alleging that the actions of the OP's wife constituted constructive dismissal.

How would that hold up though?
The employer didn't make her conditions less favourable, or penalise her in any way in order to feel that she had no other option to resign.
They simply proposed to her that they would pay her a year's salary if she was willing to voluntarily resign from her job.
The proposal would give her 2 choices, a) accept the offer and be gone. b) carry on working there under the exact same circumstances with no change in pay, conditions or duties.

What could consitute unfair dismissal there?
It is not like she'd be loaded with extra work to feel stressed, (she does nothing anyway) nor is it the case that she'd be demoted or put to work in less favourable conditions.

skooterblue2

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Which begs the question why is she bothered if they aren't?

Because she is hard working and has to deal with the drama of this individual. She has to go for two hours a day and manage a shop if and when she can get cover from another member of staff on their day off. It would be so easily to get rid of this soaked waster and get someone who actually wants to work and needs the money.

skooterblue2

Get Real wrote: »

This is by no means legal advice, but my opinion would be just because she doesn't have a permanent contract, doesn't mean she's a temporary employee.
.

I am not a lawyer, I have no legal training, I just know enough to either to know when I am getting into trouble and withdraw or to say nothing and call a solicitor. Hence I am on here.

Thecowboy1981

Your wife seems a bit dry, she should offer your one a glass of wine and have a drink with her.


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TC1981
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CrankyHaus

TheBoyConor wrote: »

How would that hold up though?
The employer didn't make her conditions less favourable, or penalise her in any way in order to feel that she had no other option to resign.
They simply proposed to her that they would pay her a year's salary if she was willing to voluntarily resign from her job.
The proposal would give her 2 choices, a) accept the offer and be gone. b) carry on working there under the exact same circumstances with no change in pay, conditions or duties.

What could consitute unfair dismissal there?
It is not like she'd be loaded with extra work to feel stressed, (she does nothing anyway) nor is it the case that she'd be demoted or put to work in less favourable conditions.

I agree, but there's a reason why these sort of agreements for an unwanted employee to leave voluntarily generally have involvement from HR, if not lawyers, and senior management. The OP couldn't do it by herself without risking big problems. Where would she even get the money for this from, petty cash?

I think the problem is with her employer, happy to have her covering for a problem employee than to help her solve that problem, more than with the employee. She'd be better off asserting herself and her own rights as an employee than martyring herself for an apathetic employer and plotting soloruns that could jeopardise her own position.

Thecowboy1981

A few right bores on here.

ExoPolitic

My advice is to continue as you are, keep a record of all the conversations and documentation sent between your wife and the owners. When employee slips up and causes an issue one day, your wife will be protected as she highlighted to the owners what was going on and they did not provide any assistance with providing outsourced legal help and it will be their problem.

If the company did have a HR policy, then you'd just follow it and act out the motions and it would be the owners duty to back that up. But from what I see this doesn't exist. Where do I sign up for a job here?

skooterblue2

ExoPolitic wrote: »

My advice is to continue as you are, keep a record of all the conversations and documentation sent between your wife and the owners. When employee slips up and causes an issue one day, your wife will be protected as she highlighted to the owners what was going on and they did not provide any assistance with providing outsourced legal help and it will be their problem.

If the company did have a HR policy, then you'd just follow it and act out the motions and it would be the owners duty to back that up. But from what I see this doesn't exist. Where do I sign up for a job here?

A bit late with the advice. The wife has seen the writing on the wall and is reading "what colour is my parachute 2020?" and "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". It looks like she is going back to education and will be retraining in September with VTOS.

"See you MOFOs on the other side". (*wife jumps out of plane giving flipping everyone the bird and descends on opening her parachute*).

You want a job working minimum wage where you will be robbed at gun point three times a year with no company support? Feel free to apply.

ExoPolitic

skooterblue2 wrote: »

A bit late with the advice. The wife has seen the writing on the wall and is reading "what colour is my parachute 2020?" and "Rich Dad, Poor Dad". It looks like she is going back to education and will be retraining in September with VTOS.

"See you MOFOs on the other side". (*wife jumps out of plane giving flipping everyone the bird and descends on opening her parachute*).

You want a job working minimum wage where you will be robbed at gun point three times a year with no company support? Feel free to apply.

Good on her to be fair, I was just wondering where is this job I can get where I am unsackable?

skooterblue2

ExoPolitic wrote: »

Good on her to be fair, I was just wondering where is this job I can get where I am unsackable?

Its one of these new and up and coming crap holes in Dublin suburbs. The wages wouldnt pay you to get out of bed in the morning.

ExoPolitic

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Its one of these new and up and coming crap holes in Dublin suburbs. The wages wouldnt pay you to get out of bed in the morning.

Sounds about right nowadays

nuac

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