GE2020: Kildare North

hero001

Orion wrote: »

He said that about FG last time too - they did split the vote but transfers from Lawless got Durkan elected. There's little doubt Murphy will top the poll. Most likely a distributable surplus on 1st count. How 1st are shared will decide the rest - Not many come back from a large deficit (some notable exceptions). But I'll be shocked if FG don't have 1 seat in NK.
Likely outcome is SD, FF, FG, 1 from Green/FF/FG - in that order.

The danger for FG is that Lawlor may do slightly better this time, meaning that Durkan and Lawlor will end up in 5th and 6th place at the final count. Green's may be transfer friendly, so they could have a real chance here.

ghostdancer

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Hah, Really wish he wasn't part of that religiously aligned ilk. Thats a brilliant reply.

brilliantly moronic, yes.

ghostdancer

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I read on KFM that O’Rourke is looking to have a bus lane on the M4. So, he wants no hard shoulder? I have. Driven all over Europe and cannot recall any Mway ever having a Bus lane.

lots of newer motorways (sometimes older ones with the space too) have them as an extra lane during rush hours.
hard shoulders are essentially dead space 99.99% of the time, so being used as a bus lane is a no-brainer where possible.

the M4 is being widened to facilitate it anyway, as mentioned it has f- all to do with O'Rourke.
it makes sense as it can then merge with the N4 bus lane/2 lanes at Lucan.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/bus-lanes-considered-motorway-maynooth-15810030


Unfortunately most buses will still be picking up in Leixlip/Celbridge anyway, so I'm not sure how much impact it will really have. Good for the Bus Eireann buses I guess, and maybe it'll inspire a few more direct buses from Kilcock/Maynooth.

Seth Brundle

ghostdancer wrote: »

the M4 is being widened to facilitate it anyway, as mentioned it has f- all to do with O'Rourke.
it makes sense as it can then merge with the N4 bus lane/2 lanes at Lucan.

Adding another lane to the M4 is only going to mean more cars will choose to use the motorway which in turn will help encourage more urban sprawl which in turn will lead to longer commuting times and even crappier lives for those commuters.
...and O'Rourke wants to take credit for this?

L1011

ghostdancer wrote: »

Unfortunately most buses will still be picking up in Leixlip/Celbridge anyway, so I'm not sure how much impact it will really have. Good for the Bus Eireann buses I guess, and maybe it'll inspire a few more direct buses from Kilcock/Maynooth.

I could easily see Eirebus (Swords Express/Fingal Express) or similar jumping in with a direct service - there's no point doing one when the train would beat it with current congestion; but with a bus lane it'd be quicker to the core city centre than by rail.

ghostdancer

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Adding another lane to the M4 is only going to mean more cars will choose to use the motorway which in turn will help encourage more urban sprawl which in turn will lead to longer commuting times and even crappier lives for those commuters.
...and O'Rourke wants to take credit for this?

it's not adding another lane though, it's (possibly) widening the hard shoulder to use safely as a bus lane.
Cars will still be in their 2 lanes AFAIK, so there's no reason why more cars will be using it.

L1011

ghostdancer wrote: »

it's not adding another lane though, it's (possibly) widening the hard shoulder to use safely as a bus lane.
Cars will still be in their 2 lanes AFAIK, so there's no reason why more cars will be using it.

Unless the plans have completely changed - or Frank has completely mangled what he was told in a rush to get something in the Champion before print deadline - the plan is for an additional lane each side AND an inbound bus lane.

ghostdancer

I haven't seen the plans, just going off what I've seen reported, eg. my link above. I wouldn't have thought there's space for 3 lanes+hard shoulder/bus lane, on both sides, without significant works?
there's definitely parts that it isn't possible, like at the Water Treatment plant bridge, or several overpasses and off ramps, without enormous construction works/costs.

in fact, looking at the overpasses on Google Streetview, I don't see how it's possible any of them could accommodate 4 "lanes"?

L1011

Ove Arup were appointed to do the design work for the widening 6 weeks ago. There would not be a hard shoulder and a bus lane.

The inbound span of the Liffey bridge may need widening regardless though.

ghostdancer

ah right, I think these are 2 different things so.

Re-surfacing supposed to be happening in the next few months, with talk of the existing hard shoulder potentially being turned into a bus lane at the same time. Again looking at the overpasses, I don't think that will be a go-er, as it looks too tight in sections to allow buses/coaches IMO. Plus surely it would have had to have had assessments and confirmation finished by now?

Widening to 3 lanes proper is a few years down the road at least.

L1011

No, I think Frank has just mangled absolutely everything and its all the one process.

The resurfacing was meant to be done in October and was kicked out due to the widening, so as not to be seen to be wasting money tearing it up again a short time later

ghostdancer

yes, the bus lane and widening to 3 lanes appear to be the same process, and Frank is talking nonsense.
so basically in a few years time, there'll be a slightly wider M4, which may be used as 3 lanes, or Bus Lane + 2 lanes.

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/home/512496/upgrade-of-m4-motorway-could-start-as-early-as-march.html

The resurfacing of the M4 motorway between Kilcock and Lucan could start as early as March.
Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) said a Low Noise Surface will be installed to reduce traffic sound levels for nearby residents and businesses.
The issue of noise from the motorway has been raised with local politicians in recent years.
The TII also said bus lane is now being considered between Maynooth and Lucan.

Local Fianna Fail TD Frank O'Rourke said: “The TII has informed me that phase one of the resurfacing works, with a low noise surface, between Kilcock and Maynooth is set to commence in March/April which is very positive news.

"The TII are now considering my proposal to provide a Bus Lane between Maynooth and Lucan, which would improve the travel time for our bus service. This bus lane could be included in the next phase of the M4 resurfacing works.”

He added: “We should provide a bus lane from Maynooth to the city centre. This will improve the bus service for Maynooth and Kilcock Bus Commuters. I am delighted that my proposal is now being considered by the TII and Kildare Co Council."

L1011

ghostdancer wrote: »

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/home/512496/upgrade-of-m4-motorway-could-start-as-early-as-march.html

Yeah, he's mangled stuff. There is no next stage of resurfacing works; its all what comes from the Arup design process.

Desperation to get his name in the papers the week before election; that's all

buffalo

Orion wrote: »

Appears Lawless is also Band 1 (>25Km and <60Km) and claims it. 25K a year. So this thing about claiming the Leap card only is wrong.

https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/members/parliamentaryAllowances/psa/2020/2020-01-01_parliamentary-standard-allowance-payments-to-deputies-for-november-2019_en.pdf

Here's the bands. https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/salaries-and-allowances/parliamentary-standard-allowances/

Just so I'm clear on this - all KN TDs except for Catherine Murphy were paid €25,295 for travel and accommodation allowance? Or were they merely allowed to claim up that max limit? What's the €3,803.75 for Frank O'Rourke for?

L1011

buffalo wrote: »

Just so I'm clear on this - all KN TDs except for Catherine Murphy were paid €25,295 for travel and accommodation allowance? Or were they merely allowed to claim up that max limit? What's the €3,803.75 for Frank O'Rourke for?

TAA (the ~26k and ~9k for Murphy) is an automatic allowance; unvouched and based on distance. It was brought in after some ridiculous mileage claims by TDs. Its not a good system, though. I'm not sure if it is actually possible to refuse it. Its cut if you don't turn up enough/at all, down to zero in theory.

The €3,803.75 is the TAA plus PRA (Parliamentary Representation Allowance - a max amount for office and some other costs) paid out in a given month.

The PRA for a backbencher is a shade over 20k. Frank is claiming the absolute maximum PRA; but nearly everyone does. There are some notable exceptions; or people claiming very low amounts.

baaba maal

ghostdancer wrote: »

brilliantly moronic, yes.

Yes it is- he is asked about an actual national issue (in suburban and urban areas) and turns it into virtue signalling for the idiots who think that a more sustainable transport infrastructure isn't something that needs to be looked at.

I hadn't realised that organised crime and sustainable travel could not both be
issues- thanks Renua.

buffalo

buffalo wrote: »

Just so I'm clear on this - all KN TDs except for Catherine Murphy were paid €25,295 for travel and accommodation allowance? Or were they merely allowed to claim up that max limit? What's the €3,803.75 for Frank O'Rourke for?

While trying to clarify this for myself, I came across the following: https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2019/1030/1087550-attendance-record-and-travel-expenses/

Figures are TAA expenses they claimed between March 2016 and the end of 2018 - the days are days they signed into the Dáil but didn't attend any votes (there would be other days they signed in and attended votes).

James Lawless (€ 71,960) 35 days
Catherine Murphy (€ 25,603) 31 days
Frank O'Rourke (€ 71,960) 22 days
Bernard Durkan (€ 71,960) 1 day

L1011

buffalo wrote: »

While trying to clarify this for myself, I came across the following: https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2019/1030/1087550-attendance-record-and-travel-expenses/

Figures are TAA expenses they claimed between March 2016 and the end of 2018 - the days are days they signed into the Dáil but didn't attend any votes (there would be other days they signed in and attended votes).

James Lawless (€ 71,960) 35 days
Catherine Murphy (€ 25,603) 31 days
Frank O'Rourke (€ 71,960) 22 days
Bernard Durkan (€ 71,960) 1 day

There can be legitimate reasons for signing in and not voting and if their total number is well over the limit its irrelevant - that figure is missing there

If Lawless fobbed in 185 days / Murphy 181 days they would still have attended votes on the 150 days basically.

Those figures have a use (there is no way that the Healey Raes were there >220 days each - they were fobbing in then ****ing off back to a funeral in Kerry at best) but absent other data can't be used alone basically.

buffalo

L1011 wrote: »

There can be legitimate reasons for signing in and not voting and if their total number is well over the limit its irrelevant - that figure is missing there

If Lawless fobbed in 185 days / Murphy 181 days they would still have attended votes on the 150 days basically.

Those figures have a use (there is no way that the Healey Raes were there >220 days each - they were fobbing in then ****ing off back to a funeral in Kerry at best) but absent other data can't be used alone basically.

I was more interested in the RTE-verified TAA figures than the days, I just included them as information that others might find useful.

Orion

L1011 wrote: »

I'm not sure if it is actually possible to refuse it. Its cut if you don't turn up enough/at all, down to zero in theory.

You can refuse it. Murphy did from 2011-2016. It is considered vouched not unvouched - so you have to apply for it and register your address.

WishUWereHere

L1011 wrote: »

TAA (the ~26k and ~9k for Murphy) is an automatic allowance; unvouched and based on distance. It was brought in after some ridiculous mileage claims by TDs. Its not a good system, though. I'm not sure if it is actually possible to refuse it. Its cut if you don't turn up enough/at all, down to zero in theory.

The €3,803.75 is the TAA plus PRA (Parliamentary Representation Allowance - a max amount for office and some other costs) paid out in a given month.

The PRA for a backbencher is a shade over 20k. Frank is claiming the absolute maximum PRA; but nearly everyone does. There are some notable exceptions; or people claiming very low amounts.

This for is beginning to make Maria Bailey/Alan Farrell look like saints.

How is he a tad at all is beyond me.

Orion

WishUWereHere wrote: »

This for is beginning to make Maria Bailey/Alan Farrell look like saints.

How is he a tad at all is beyond me.

Both of them claim the expenses too - Dublin band - same as Murphy. However none of the local candidates committed or attempted to commit insurance fraud.

Rulmeq

L1011 wrote: »

There can be legitimate reasons for signing in and not voting and if their total number is well over the limit its irrelevant - that figure is missing there

If Lawless fobbed in 185 days / Murphy 181 days they would still have attended votes on the 150 days basically.

Those figures have a use (there is no way that the Healey Raes were there >220 days each - they were fobbing in then ****ing off back to a funeral in Kerry at best) but absent other data can't be used alone basically.

Why do they only have to clock in, why don't they also have to clock out?

2lazytogetup

buffalo wrote: »

While trying to clarify this for myself, I came across the following: https://www.rte.ie/news/investigations-unit/2019/1030/1087550-attendance-record-and-travel-expenses/

Figures are TAA expenses they claimed between March 2016 and the end of 2018 - the days are days they signed into the Dáil but didn't attend any votes (there would be other days they signed in and attended votes).

James Lawless (€ 71,960) 35 days
Catherine Murphy (€ 25,603) 31 days
Frank O'Rourke (€ 71,960) 22 days
Bernard Durkan (€ 71,960) 1 day

thats shocking. Thats me not voting for any of these so. Fair enough Catherine Murphy claim wasnt as bad. But she wasnt great on the leaders debate last night.

L1011

Rulmeq wrote: »

Why do they only have to clock in, why don't they also have to clock out?

I'm sure there's reasons. They're probably crap.

2lazytogetup wrote: »

thats shocking. Thats me not voting for any of these so. Fair enough Catherine Murphy claim wasnt as bad. But she wasnt great on the leaders debate last night.

The TAA is based on distance, Murphy just lives closer. Its a very crude system.

Of course, Frank is pushing the definition of distance by using a specific, selected road distance whereas the other two are significantly over 25km away

daheff

L1011 wrote: »

an inbound bus lane.

Why only an inbound bus lane? Is it that they only care that you get to work on time, but don't give a damn how long it takes you to get home??

L1011

daheff wrote: »

Why only an inbound bus lane? Is it that they only care that you get to work on time, but don't give a damn how long it takes you to get home??

Outbound does not have anywhere near the same congestion issues and will likely be fully relieved by a third lane

Stealthirl

What bus actually goes on the M4 ? Far as im aware it's only the 115 and at that only about 6 would benefit from one. Wouldn't a footpath and cycle lane along the Dublin rd at Weston be a better spend and improve safety there.

L1011

Stealthirl wrote: »

What bus actually goes on the M4 ? Far as im aware it's only the 115 and at that only about 6 would benefit from one. Wouldn't a footpath and cycle lane along the Dublin rd at Weston be a better spend and improve safety there.

Also all long distance buses to Galway / Sligo / Mayo, and the private M4 Direct coaches; and the expectation is that more would start if journey times were consistent

boardbeer

On the M4 bus lane thing, I don't see how this can be provided without a change to the law, as the Road Traffic regs do not allow for Bus Lanes that are not also Cycle lanes, and bicycles aren't allowed on motorways (you may have seen a bus/bike lane sign with the bike painted out, e.g., on the N4 outbound just after the M50 r/bout: this has no legal basis).