Excellent tenant

katiek102010

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The same support network that has him living in a glorified bedsit(*) and isn't helping him find somewhere new to live? There are nicer people in most small towns around the country.

(*) Not getting at the OP here, I'm sure it's a nice studio as studios go. But they are what they are.

Maybe he doesn't want to live with his grandkids.

Stop being disgusting. You have no right to dictate who lives where. When you have lived in an area 60+ years, have friends and relatives living close to you. How would you like to be told move away only working peop2allowed live here.

You are suggesting a form of cleaning of an area.

katiek102010

Sleeper12 wrote: »

This is the norm & happens every day of the week. Charities & Councils advise overholding

It's unethical and can cause the landlord /seller huge financial difficulty.

The councils and charity should be held accountable by law to compensate accordingly

katiek102010

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Probably because he is an older gentleman who has his friends family social life and his social curiosities built around him. I am guessing that you are under 35? Because after 30 people who dont know you have very little time for you. It takes too much effort to make friends and find them. Older people have their favourite shops, pubs and walks. Can we not afford these to our senior citizens who have given much of their lives through "Belt tightenings" and emigration eras?

When you get to that age you will hope people will be that charitable to you.

I worked in a social care, housing background. The distress from being forcibly moved from the familiar can have a huge impact on the physical and mental health of anyone, not just the elderly.

It is unbelievable for any human being to say ship the elderly and those not working out of Dublin.

The majority of those renting are in a precarious situation. We are currently renting, not by choice. We have a disabled child. Even though the working parent earns over the average salary the banks won't touch us for a mortgage as carers is not an income in their opinion.

We had to move county and were a week away from being homeless. Disabled child has a special school 60k commute daily as he can't be moved due to last of space. Working parent has a 137k commute daily.

GP where we are now has no vacancies so routine visits and check ups mean 1hr drive there and back.

How on earth would an elderly person cope with that

Graces7

re your last sentence; with great difficulty. I am on the verge of my 80s and had to do just that less than three years ago. It has affected my health adversely. The worst was that many folkl assumed I should be in sheltered accommodation aka prison!

I came out here from a terrible rental; the one before that was great but he needed to sell and was a decent man.

Now I am in a council owned place so maybe more secure.

But that last move nearly finished me.

katiek102010 wrote: »

I worked in a social care, housing background. The distress from being forcibly moved from the familiar can have a huge impact on the physical and mental health of anyone, not just the elderly.

It is unbelievable for any human being to say ship the elderly and those not working out of Dublin.

The majority of those renting are in a precarious situation. We are currently renting, not by choice. We have a disabled child. Even though the working parent earns over the average salary the banks won't touch us for a mortgage as carers is not an income in their opinion.

We had to move county and were a week away from being homeless. Disabled child has a special school 60k commute daily as he can't be moved due to last of space. Working parent has a 137k commute daily.

GP where we are now has no vacancies so routine visits and check ups mean 1hr drive there and back.

How on earth would an elderly person cope with that

handlemaster

Graces7 wrote: »

Your post is a complete non sequitur to mine and I have no idea what you are talking about.

Certainly nothing to do with this gentleman's predicament

Civil war? What rules?

Clearly you dont see the bigger picture of case and effect so I will leave it there with you.

handlemaster

katiek102010 wrote: »

Maybe he doesn't want to live with his grandkids.

Stop being disgusting. You have no right to dictate who lives where. When you have lived in an area 60+ years, have friends and relatives living close to you. How would you like to be told move away only working peop2allowed live here.

You are suggesting a form of cleaning of an area.

If you cannot afford to live in your desired area should the state step in ? I would like to live in Ballsbridge , then perhaps Sandymount then maybe Ranelagh , each time I change my mind as it is my right , do you think the state should pay for me and my desired location ? I also want only A rated energy efficient housing, good access to transport .. and I dont want to pay over what I perceive yo be fair value.. like 50 euro per week.

beauf

The problem is the state got rid of its social housing in places like Dublin and didn't build or buy any new stock to replace it.

Old diesel

So if this gentleman *has* to move out of Dublin.

There are a number of issues to consider....

1) move to where exactly.......

2) what happens when the landlord in Killarney, Cavan, Clifden or Roscommon needs to sell.

3) there is a GP shortage - so if no GP places in random town how are any medical needs to be met.

4) how do other countries manage this - if an elderly man lived in Paris for years how do the French authorities deal with it. Do they tell you bugger off to some random town.

Easy to say "move" out of Dublin - but not so simple in reality.

dubrov

OP, I know this wasn't a problem of your making but you are in a very real position to help someone directly. I know you say you need to look after your family but could you sleep at night knowing this guy is living in a tent.

Rent does not need to cover the mortgage to be profitable, it just needs to cover the rent plus expenses and it sounds like expenses are almost zero with your tenant.

E.g. Rent is 900 but the mortgage is 1000 per month. Of that 1000, about 600 is probably paying down the equity. So every month you are 400 better off on paper. I know there is tax to consider but I am sure you could come to some arrangement with your tenant.

Of course you are down 100 in cashflow every month in the above example but maybe you could look at getting an equity release from the bank to cover you in the short term.

Most of us who give to charity know that only a fraction of it ends up making a difference after administration charges are taken out. You have the possibility here to cut through all that.

I'd tell your tenant to keep up the pressure on the council telling them that he will be shortly living in a tent. Hopefully, they will eventually find something for him and you can sell.

Sofa King Great

dubrov wrote: »

OP, I know this wasn't a problem of your making but you are in a very real position to help someone directly. I know you say you need to look after your family but could you sleep at night knowing this guy is living in a tent.

Rent does not need to cover the mortgage to be profitable, it just needs to cover the rent plus expenses and it sounds like expenses are almost zero with your tenant.

E.g. Rent is 900 but the mortgage is 1000 per month. Of that 1000, about 600 is probably paying down the equity. So every month you are 400 better off on paper. I know there is tax to consider but I am sure you could come to some arrangement with your tenant.

Of course you are down 100 in cashflow every month in the above example but maybe you could look at getting an equity release from the bank to cover you in the short term.

Most of us who give to charity know that only a fraction of it ends up making a difference after administration charges are taken out. You have the possibility here to cut through all that.

I'd tell your tenant to keep up the pressure on the council telling them that he will be shortly living in a tent. Hopefully, they will eventually find something for him and you can sell.

Your example doesn't take in to account tax on rental income, property tax, expenses associated with the house.

Also why should someone take on extra debt via an equity release?

handlemaster

Old diesel wrote: »

So if this gentleman *has* to move out of Dublin.

There are a number of issues to consider....

1) move to where exactly.......

2) what happens when the landlord in Killarney, Cavan, Clifden or Roscommon needs to sell.

3) there is a GP shortage - so if no GP places in random town how are any medical needs to be met.

4) how do other countries manage this - if an elderly man lived in Paris for years how do the French authorities deal with it. Do they tell you bugger off to some random town.

Easy to say "move" out of Dublin - but not so simple in reality.

Yes life outside of Dublin is impossible. LOL

handlemaster

dubrov wrote: »

OP, I know this wasn't a problem of your making but you are in a very real position to help someone directly. I know you say you need to look after your family but could you sleep at night knowing this guy is living in a tent.

Rent does not need to cover the mortgage to be profitable, it just needs to cover the rent plus expenses and it sounds like expenses are almost zero with your tenant.

E.g. Rent is 900 but the mortgage is 1000 per month. Of that 1000, about 600 is probably paying down the equity. So every month you are 400 better off on paper. I know there is tax to consider but I am sure you could come to some arrangement with your tenant.

Of course you are down 100 in cashflow every month in the above example but maybe you could look at getting an equity release from the bank to cover you in the short term.

Most of us who give to charity know that only a fraction of it ends up making a difference after administration charges are taken out. You have the possibility here to cut through all that.

I'd tell your tenant to keep up the pressure on the council telling them that he will be shortly living in a tent. Hopefully, they will eventually find something for him and you can sell.

Would you say the same thing to a business owner like a shop keeper. Why are landlords always asked to be charity workers?

Old diesel

dubrov wrote: »

OP, I know this wasn't a problem of your making but you are in a very real position to help someone directly. I know you say you need to look after your family but could you sleep at night knowing this guy is living in a tent.

Rent does not need to cover the mortgage to be profitable, it just needs to cover the rent plus expenses and it sounds like expenses are almost zero with your tenant.

E.g. Rent is 900 but the mortgage is 1000 per month. Of that 1000, about 600 is probably paying down the equity. So every month you are 400 better off on paper. I know there is tax to consider but I am sure you could come to some arrangement with your tenant.

Of course you are down 100 in cashflow every month in the above example but maybe you could look at getting an equity release from the bank to cover you in the short term.

Most of us who give to charity know that only a fraction of it ends up making a difference after administration charges are taken out. You have the possibility here to cut through all that.

I'd tell your tenant to keep up the pressure on the council telling them that he will be shortly living in a tent. Hopefully, they will eventually find something for him and you can sell.

The problem is likely that the property is costing too much Vs what it takes in rent wise.

You still pay tax on it for example even when making a loss due to how rental income is treated.

So in this case it's actually too much of a drain on the Landlords family finances.

Whereas if you sell - you have money that bolsters the family finances.

Or at least you can get rid of the mortgage debt.

Things don't actually need to be as bad as "living in a tent" the council could easily sort out a hotel or B & B room as a stop gap.

Now whether they will actually do this is another matter entirely. The Gentleman will need someone to advocate for him.

Like Anthony Flynn at ICHH who is also a Dublin City Council.

The big problem here is that the house is provisionally sold.

This landlord has already been helpful by allowing the extra week by week stay.

Graces7

I see simple humanity that transcends other considerations and having been in his situation? People matter.. And I choose to care not neglect ..Fare thee well!

handlemaster wrote: »

Clearly you dont see the bigger picture of case and effect so I will leave it there with you.

Graces7

None of this applies to this old man. You are exaggerating and deflecting,

handlemaster wrote: »

If you cannot afford to live in your desired area should the state step in ? I would like to live in Ballsbridge , then perhaps Sandymount then maybe Ranelagh , each time I change my mind as it is my right , do you think the state should pay for me and my desired location ? I also want only A rated energy efficient housing, good access to transport .. and I dont want to pay over what I perceive yo be fair value.. like 50 euro per week.

dubrov

Sofa King Great wrote: »

Your example doesn't take in to account tax on rental income, property tax, expenses associated with the house.

Also why should someone take on extra debt via an equity release?

I addressed taxes and expenses but it was a simplified example
Show me a property in Dublin for sale that wouldn't cover all of the above.

An equity release is just to get over the hump of the cashflow problem.
The mortgage payments will reduce the debt naturally so the OP will still be in profit in the long run.

dubrov

handlemaster wrote: »

Would you say the same thing to a business owner like a shop keeper. Why are landlords always asked to be charity workers?

No I wouldn't if it was a business. Living on the street at 65 is much worse than a business going bust.

The OP isn't obliged to do anything. I don't really understand those congratulating their OP for being so nice to their tenant either if h gets turfed out.
I don't think it is a huge ask to hold on a few months more until something is sorted.

Old diesel

handlemaster wrote: »

Yes life outside of Dublin is impossible. LOL

It's the constant moving around that landlords and the market will be requiring that's the problem.

Moving into a nice little place in say Killarney is doable if you are allowed settle down there and be happy there.

What isnt so doable is the following......

Today - move to Cavan......

12 months time - move to Killarney.

3 years time move to Connemara.

5 years time move to Monaghan.

Social housing is the solution ultimately.....

Graces7

You are describing in detail what I encountered a couple of years ago when I had to leave a death trap of a rental
My medical needs were grossly neglected for over a year. And I am headed for 80 and disabled/chronically ill .

Even now I have minimal sketchy health care and only this much because I made a fuss.. as high as the Ombudsman.

Thankfully now with the council and feeling far safer than with any private landlord over the last eight moves in 14 years


l

Old diesel wrote: »

So if this gentleman *has* to move out of Dublin.

There are a number of issues to consider....

1) move to where exactly.......

2) what happens when the landlord in Killarney, Cavan, Clifden or Roscommon needs to sell.

3) there is a GP shortage - so if no GP places in random town how are any medical needs to be met.

4) how do other countries manage this - if an elderly man lived in Paris for years how do the French authorities deal with it. Do they tell you bugger off to some random town.

Easy to say "move" out of Dublin - but not so simple in reality.

2020Vision

dubrov wrote: »

No I wouldn't if it was a business. Living on the street at 65 is much worse than a business going bust.

The OP isn't obliged to do anything. I don't really understand those congratulating their OP for being so nice to their tenant either if h gets turfed out.
I don't think it is a huge ask to hold on a few months more until something is sorted.

And if you were the purchaser, you'd no doubt be delighted to hold off moving in until the departing tenant had been facilitated?

dubrov

Old diesel wrote: »

You still pay tax on it for example even when making a loss due to how rental income is treated.

This is a fallacy that is constantly reiterated on these forums. You only pay tax on profits. i.e. Rental Income less expenses (note interest is also an allowable expense).

E.g. Rent 1000, Expenses (600 including interest). You only pay tax on 400.
Say 50% tax so you pay 200.
Also the mortgage is 900.

At the end of your month your net position is
Equity = +300 (Mortgage payment less interest)
Cash = -100 (Rent less mortgage payment)

So you are in profit +200.

Of course the problem is your cashflow is -100 so that can be a problem in the short term.

dubrov

2020Vision wrote: »

And if you were the purchaser, you'd no doubt be delighted to hold off moving in until the departing tenant had been facilitated?

I wouldn't be purchasing if I knew the background

2020Vision

dubrov wrote: »

I wouldn't be purchasing if I knew the background

Sanctimonious tripe!

dubrov

2020Vision wrote: »

Sanctimonious tripe!

Believe what you like

beauf

dubrov wrote: »

OP, I know this wasn't a problem of your making but you are in a very real position to help someone directly. I know you say you need to look after your family but could you sleep at night knowing this guy is living in a tent.

....

Of course you are down 100 in cashflow every month in the above example but maybe you could look at getting an equity release from the bank to cover you in the short term....

This is an interesting post. That a LL should maintain a property and effectively give a tenant 1200+ a year to stay in it. For who knows how many years.

Its interesting because that's the result of govt housing policy, that the govt abdicated the housing of its people to the whim of the private market. They outsourced it.

handlemaster

Old diesel wrote: »

The problem is likely that the property is costing too much Vs what it takes in rent wise.

You still pay tax on it for example even when making a loss due to how rental income is treated.

So in this case it's actually too much of a drain on the Landlords family finances.

Whereas if you sell - you have money that bolsters the family finances.

Or at least you can get rid of the mortgage debt.

Things don't actually need to be as bad as "living in a tent" the council could easily sort out a hotel or B & B room as a stop gap.

Now whether they will actually do this is another matter entirely. The Gentleman will need someone to advocate for him.

Like Anthony Flynn at ICHH who is also a Dublin City Council.

The big problem here is that the house is provisionally sold.

This landlord has already been helpful by allowing the extra week by week stay.

Well said.

Old diesel

dubrov wrote: »

This is a fallacy that is constantly reiterated on these forums. You only pay tax on profits. i.e. Rental Income less expenses (note interest is also an allowable expense).

E.g. Rent 1000, Expenses (600 including interest). You only pay tax on 400.
Say 50% tax so you pay 200.
Also the mortgage is 900.

At the end of your month your net position is
Equity = +300 (Mortgage payment less interest)
Cash = -100 (Rent less mortgage payment)

So you are in profit +200.

Of course the problem is your cashflow is -100 so that can be a problem in the short term.

Rental income isn't treated like other businesses.

It's counted as if normal PAYE income and it's to be added to your other income.

So you get caught for the high rate of tax because either your other income went over the threshold of 34 k.

Or because the rental income takes you over 34 k.

handlemaster

Old diesel wrote: »

It's the constant moving around that landlords and the market will be requiring that's the problem.

Moving into a nice little place in say Killarney is doable if you are allowed settle down there and be happy there.

What isnt so doable is the following......

Today - move to Cavan......

12 months time - move to Killarney.

3 years time move to Connemara.

5 years time move to Monaghan.

Social housing is the solution ultimately.....[/quote

LL would be more than happy to provide social housing if they were treat correctly with having to deal with problem tenants no payment anti social behaviour etc..

dubrov

Old diesel wrote: »

Rental income isn't treated like other businesses.

It's counted as if normal PAYE income and it's to be added to your other income.

So you get caught for the high rate of tax because either your other income went over the threshold of 34 k.

Or because the rental income takes you over 34 k.

That is not true.
If you own a business, you cannot spend the profit as you like on yourself. You need to pay it out as a salary at which point it becomes subject to PAYE.

So if you work for someone and earn 30k and have a business on the side that pays you 30k, you are taxed as if your total income is 60k.

dubrov

dubrov wrote: »

No I wouldn't if it was a business. Living on the street at 65 is much worse than a business going bust.

No it isn’t, a business going bust could impact a lot more than just one person who lets be realistic is not going to end up on the street.

dubrov wrote: »

The OP isn't obliged to do anything. I don't really understand those congratulating their OP for being so nice to their tenant either if h gets turfed out.
I don't think it is a huge ask to hold on a few months more until something is sorted.

The op is running a business, it is not a charity and your other post stating he shouldn’t sell is quite frankly nonsense. He is already going over and above with the help he is providing. It’s not his job to house people it’s his job to work his situation as best he can for his own finances.

He has already been throwing money away by not upping rent for many years and now you would expect him to further subsidise this man out of his own pocket.

dubrov wrote: »

I wouldn't be purchasing if I knew the background

You would be very foolish to allow sentiment to dictate your life like this. I would have no hesitation in purchasing the place it’s not my problem nor should it be what the existing tenants situation is. I’d have sympathy for him but I wouldn’t be letting that influence any decisions.

dubrov wrote: »

That is not true.
If you own a business, you cannot spend the profit as you like on yourself. You need to pay it out as a salary at which point it becomes subject to PAYE.

So if you work for someone and earn 30k and have a business on the side that pays you 30k, you are taxed as if your total income is 60k.

There is a massive gulf in what a normal business can do and what a rental business can do, the situation is very unfair.

There is far more scope for tax write offs in other business, far more scope for expensing your own time and anything business related (essentially paying yourself tax free to an extent). That’s just the start of it.