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The Uncapped Back Row “Stocktake” - 2020 & Beyond

  • 20-01-2020 2:39am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,069 ✭✭✭ ionadnapokot


    I cant recall Irish rugby having such an amount of promising loose forwards breaking through at the same time.

    Is it fair to say that the best of them are all at Leinster?
    Cant see any really exceptional (SO'B/Ferris) talent amongst them. Maybe Connors? Dorris looks to have the height, strength, skills and engine to make an excellent 8

    I've had a stab at trying to project their careers for the craic. (completely guessing with the Ulster young lads)
    All comments & corrections are welcome!
    And particularly If im leaving anybody out.

    PLAYER|AGE|2020 Caps|2021 Lions|2023 WC*|+25 Caps|+50 Caps
    Will Connors|23|1|0|4|Yes|Yes
    Max Deegan|23|2|0|0|Yes|No
    Caelan Doris|21|8|1|5|Yes|Yes
    Scott Penny|20|0|0|0|Yes|No
    Paul Boyle|23|0|0|0|No|No
    Gavin Coombes|22|0|0|0|No|No
    John Hodnett|21|0|0|0|No|No
    Fineen Wycherley|22|0|0|3|Yes|No
    Azur Allison|20|0|0|0|No|No
    David McCann|19|0|0|0|Yes|No
    Marcus Rea|22|0|0|0|No|No


    * WC 2023 Squad
    Will Connors
    Jack Conan
    Caelan Doris
    JvdF
    Fineen Wycherly

    2019 WC Squad: Conan 27/17 caps, CJ 29/38, JvdF 26/23, PO'M 30/64, Ruddock 29/26,

    Who will gain the most International caps 48 votes

    Will Connors
    70% 34 votes
    Max Deegan
    0% 0 votes
    Caelan Doris
    4% 2 votes
    Scott Penny
    20% 10 votes
    Fineen Wycherley
    2% 1 vote
    Another Munster man
    0% 0 votes
    An Ulsterman
    0% 0 votes
    A Connachtman
    0% 0 votes
    An Other
    2% 1 vote


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,641 Dog Botherer


    Jack O’Sullivan (21) from Munster is also very highly rated.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,069 ✭✭✭ ionadnapokot


    Think I jumped the gun on Wycherley.
    POM and CJ both have plenty of life in the yet. CJ might even make next WC.

    Wycherley probably only going to get meaningful game time if they get injured.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 490 ✭✭ Scottmactom


    Jack O’Sullivan (21) from Munster is also very highly rated.

    Small.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭ Dubinusa


    No real 6 there! So, let's add Rea? and Maloney currently in Leinster academy.
    Off the lads listed, I think they all have a shot. But injury will play a part.
    The likes of JOD and Conan will still be in the mix next rwc!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab



    * WC 2023 Squad
    Will Connors
    Jack Conan
    Caelan Doris
    JvdF
    Fineen Wycherly

    2019 WC Squad: Conan 27/17 caps, CJ 29/38, JvdF 26/23, PO'M 30/64, Ruddock 29/26,

    Big IF but if Leavy is back playing as he was after his return then he will certainly be a main stay of the Irish back row in 2023


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭ Bazzo


    Sean O'Brien II is still uncapped. If, and it's a fairly big if unfortunately, he can ever get an injury free run I'd fancy him to get a shot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,308 ✭✭✭✭ prawnsambo


    Well there was the born around 1992-94 cohort of Jack Conan, Dan Leavy, Josh van der Flier, Conor Gilsenan, Eoghan Masterson, Sean O'Brien (jr), Tadhg Beirne and Jack O'Donohue. Some of these may also play at lock, but all have played in the back row for protracted periods.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,779 ✭✭✭ Paul Smeenus


    If you'd told anyone in 2010/2011 that Chris Henry would come into the squad for the 2014 Six Nations, just before turning thirty, play excellently and be part of a squad that would win that Championship, they'd have laughed in your face. Things just aren't as linear as that.

    We are all genuinely excited by these young fellas, not just for their considerable talent, but for the breath of fresh air they should bring to the team. But I think the Lions caps projections are a wee bit excitable - they're simply not as good as the similarly aged Underhill and Curry, who were in England's RWC team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    If you'd told anyone in 2010/2011 that Chris Henry would come into the squad for the 2014 Six Nations, just before turning thirty, play excellently and be part of a squad that would win that Championship, they'd have laughed in your face. Things just aren't as linear as that.

    We are all genuinely excited by these young fellas, not just for their considerable talent, but for the breath of fresh air they should bring to the team. But I think the Lions caps projections are a wee bit excitable - they're simply not as good as the similarly aged Underhill and Curry, who were in England's RWC team.

    You only need look at the long term team predictions that are regularly done for future WCs they are generally way off with players still there that were written off and lads we’ve not even heard of coming good. Everyone enjoys the shiny new toy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,066 ✭✭✭ lawrencesummers


    Starts a poll about Irish back row prospects, yet can’t name a back row player outside of Leinster. Ha ha ha ha ha


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 Granny15


    I cant recall Irish rugby having such an amount of promising loose forwards breaking through at the same time.

    Is it fair to say that the best of them are all at Leinster?
    Cant see any really exceptional (SO'B/Ferris) talent amongst them. Maybe Connors? Dorris looks to have the height, strength, skills and engine to make an excellent 8

    I've had a stab at trying to project their careers for the craic. (completely guessing with the Ulster young lads)
    All comments & corrections are welcome!
    And particularly If im leaving anybody out.

    PLAYER|AGE|2020 Caps|2021 Lions|2023 WC*|+25 Caps|+50 Caps
    Will Connors|23|1|0|4|Yes|Yes
    Max Deegan|23|2|0|0|Yes|No
    Caelan Doris|21|8|1|5|Yes|Yes
    Scott Penny|20|0|0|0|Yes|No
    Paul Boyle|23|0|0|0|No|No
    Gavin Coombes|22|0|0|0|No|No
    John Hodnett|21|0|0|0|No|No
    Fineen Wycherley|22|0|0|3|Yes|No
    Azur Allison|20|0|0|0|No|No
    David McCann|19|0|0|0|Yes|No
    Marcus Rea|22|0|0|0|No|No


    * WC 2023 Squad
    Will Connors
    Jack Conan
    Caelan Doris
    JvdF
    Fineen Wycherly

    2019 WC Squad: Conan 27/17 caps, CJ 29/38, JvdF 26/23, PO'M 30/64, Ruddock 29/26,

    I can only assume this is a wind up and not a very good one at that. To say Connors will not only get capped but +50 caps is a pipedream. The lad has made 48 tackles against 2 very poor Pro14 opponents and you are saying he will be the IRish 7 for the next world cup?

    Bias aside what has you so confident he will surpass VDF and Leavy. Which brings me to the fact you don't even have Leavy listed - are you just forgetful or mad? Leavy has won Grand Slams in Twickenham ,scored tries against Sarries in European Quarter Finals and won European Cups but you don't list him?

    That's not even mentioning the players who are rated as better by Farrell such as Jack O'Donoghue who was selected in this 6 Nations squad as a fully senior player. And you're saying Connors (with all of his 48 tackles - he does nothing else around the pitch and has a very limited game) is better than Scott Penny who had 10 tries for Leinster A in his first season across 8 games and has something like 4 tries this season for the Leinster firsts totally underrated and attempted to be undermined by people like you looking for a wind up.

    To my mind Penny is the better all round 7 than Connors and is a better link man with good hands. He suits the Leinster style of 7 better than a Charlatan who looks to get his tackle stats up for the keyboard warriors on Boards and Leinsterfans to tout.

    Very poor attmept to tout a overrated and underwhleming player Connors. Pathetic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,212 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    Starts a poll about Irish back row prospects, yet can’t name a back row player outside of Leinster. Ha ha ha ha ha

    All the best ones are from Leinster tbf.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    Granny15 wrote: »
    I can only assume this is a wind up and not a very good one at that. To say Connors will not only get capped but +50 caps is a pipedream. The lad has made 48 tackles against 2 very poor Pro14 opponents and you are saying he will be the IRish 7 for the next world cup?

    Bias aside what has you so confident he will surpass VDF and Leavy. Which brings me to the fact you don't even have Leavy listed - are you just forgetful or mad? Leavy has won Grand Slams in Twickenham ,scored tries against Sarries in European Quarter Finals and won European Cups but you don't list him?

    That's not even mentioning the players who are rated as better by Farrell such as Jack O'Donoghue who was selected in this 6 Nations squad as a fully senior player. And you're saying Connors (with all of his 48 tackles - he does nothing else around the pitch and has a very limited game) is better than Scott Penny who had 10 tries for Leinster A in his first season across 8 games and has something like 4 tries this season for the Leinster firsts totally underrated and attempted to be undermined by people like you looking for a wind up.

    To my mind Penny is the better all round 7 than Connors and is a better link man with good hands. He suits the Leinster style of 7 better than a Charlatan who looks to get his tackle stats up for the keyboard warriors on Boards and Leinsterfans to tout.

    Very poor attmept to tout a overrated and underwhleming player Connors. Pathetic.

    Will you be on every time someone praises Connors? We get it you don’t like him for reasons of your own but this is becoming very tedious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 992 ✭✭✭ Mr Tickle


    Bazzo wrote: »
    Sean O'Brien II is still uncapped. If, and it's a fairly big if unfortunately, he can ever get an injury free run I'd fancy him to get a shot.

    Every time he gets fit i get my hopes up that "this is the chance". And he's usually gone in two games time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 Granny15


    salmocab wrote: »
    Will you be on every time someone praises Connors? We get it you don’t like him for reasons of your own but this is becoming very tedious.

    This thread was obviously a wind up and I suspect it was done by people who also have a dog in the race. To tout one player above others and pretend they are impartial can create a misrepresentation online of one players abilities over another when that might not factually be the case.

    I happen to think Penny is the better player.So I have a dog in the race. Sue me. At least I'm up front about who I support. Biased maybe but I happen to think the people on here parading as impartial are anything but. I also think this is a very bad attempt to troll people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,212 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    This thread took a turn.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 Granny15


    Well if you;re leaving the likes of Leavy VDF and Conan out of the thread it seems like a poor attempt at trolling.

    Anyone with a bit of knowledge about the backrow situation in this country would have said players in there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,069 ✭✭✭ ionadnapokot


    salmocab wrote: »
    Will you be on every time someone praises Connors? We get it you don’t like him for reasons of your own but this is becoming very tedious.

    There are ways around this!

    Just a reminder...this is only a bit of fun!
    but am just interested to gauge what people think of the lads coming through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭ thegreycity


    Those lads are already capped and are about halfway to 25 appearances already (VDF nearly there) so not really relevant to the "Uncapped Back Row" thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 Granny15


    Ah I see that now - apologies all. I jumped the gun.

    My take is still that Penny is the more rounded 7 than Connors albeit he is struggling fitness wise to get up to Pro14 levels.

    He is the better link man and I think Connors is a tackle machine but limited in what he offers outside of that.

    Good for the stats brigade but i would prefer my 7 to be involved ruck time and as a link man.

    Penny also has an uncanny knack for socring tries - 8 last season - 4 this season. He happens to be in the right place at the right time often.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,212 ✭✭✭✭ Clegg


    Granny15 wrote: »
    Well if you;re leaving the likes of Leavy VDF and Conan out of the thread it seems like a poor attempt at trolling.

    Anyone with a bit of knowledge about the backrow situation in this country would have said players in there.

    VDF and Conan are in his predicted squad for the next world cup. It's not like they've been jettisoned for rookies. The table above contains promising uncapped players who may make it to test level. It's essentially arguing for what you've been saying re VDF and Conan. I'm unsure about what's gotten you so bothered other than the Connors thing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 Granny15


    Well its a way of saying Leavy and VDF will be dropped in a way withhout mentioning them in the thread.

    He says Connors will get 4 caps at the next World Cup. Interesting that he thinks he will surpass Leavyand VDF.

    Of course I have a dog in the race and it just seemed a little far fetched if not biased.

    He has also named his squad for the next world cup and Leavy isn't in it and Connors is. High hopes if not insane.

    A bit of a reality check is needed


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    Granny15 wrote: »
    Well its a way of saying Leavy and VDF will be dropped in a way withhout mentioning them in the thread.

    He says Connors will get 4 caps at the next World Cup. Interesting that he thinks he will surpass Leavyand VDF.

    Of course I have a dog in the race and it just seemed a little far fetched if not biased.

    He has also named his squad for the next world cup and Leavy isn't in it and Connors is. High hopes if not insane.

    A bit of a reality check is needed

    You don’t have a dog in the race your just cheering for one dog over another.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 Granny15


    salmocab wrote: »
    You don’t have a dog in the race your just cheering for one dog over another.

    Why would I cheer for one dog over another if I didnt have one in the race?

    Surely you can see that this thread was created by someone with very little knowledge of the game or clearly done to wind Leavy and Penny supporters up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭ Buer


    Will Connors is going to earn 100 caps.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,254 ✭✭✭ Dubinusa


    It's fun to speculate! That's why I love the u20's. I gauge the lads and speculate on their future. Backing a lad is no harm. Everyone has an opinion , so leave it at that!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,441 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab


    Granny15 wrote: »
    Why would I cheer for one dog over another if I didnt have one in the race?

    Surely you can see that this thread was created by someone with very little knowledge of the game or clearly done to wind Leavy and Penny supporters up.

    Leavy or Penney supporters? All three play for the same club why would Leinster supporters or anyone else care enough to be wound up? The Leavy omission was clearly a mistake I doubt anyone thinks he’s not at international level. I think your just looking for something thats not there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,069 ✭✭✭ ionadnapokot


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    It's fun to speculate! That's why I love the u20's. I gauge the lads and speculate on their future. Backing a lad is no harm. Everyone has an opinion , so leave it at that!

    I see David McCann was named as captain of the U-20s
    https://www.the42.ie/ireland-u20/news/

    David McCann (RBAI / Banbridge RFC / Ulster)
    Joshua Dunne (Denstone College / Galwegians RFC / Connacht).
    Mark Hernan (St Michael’s College / Lansdowne FC / Leinster)
    Cian Hurley (CBC Cork / Garryowen FC / Munster),
    Sean O’Brien (Blackrock College / UCD RFC / Leinster),
    Mark Hernan (St Michael’s College / Lansdowne FC / Leinster),
    Anthony Ryan (Clongowes Wood College / Dublin University FC / Leinster),


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 Granny15


    The fact he hasn’t responded or defended his position to me shows that he was stirring things up and was happy to sit back and watch his blatant wind ups unleashed on this forum.

    How do you know I didn’t grow up with Penny or that he’s not my neighbour or cousin? Of course people will have horses in the race and to say we are one team and there is no internal competition kumbayah is naive and in fact I think it’s a further attempt to wind some supporters up.

    When a players dreams and contracts and his professional career and his chance to have the honour of representing his country and to do it honourably is on the line you’re damn right people will get defensive/aggressive.

    If you’re from a similar background or place as someone you’re damn right you’re going to back their corner and fight for it till the bitter end. That’s all I’m doing. I’m sorry if it doesn’t mean as much to you but it does to me.

    It means a lot to people to represent your country and I want the right and deserving player to get that.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,129 Granny15


    I’ll re-post my original objections and ask the poster to defend his points against my arguments again:

    “I can only assume this is a wind up and not a very good one at that. To say Connors will not only get capped but +50 caps is a pipedream. The lad has made 48 tackles against 2 very poor Pro14 opponents and you are saying he will be the IRish 7 for the next world cup?

    Bias aside what has you so confident he will surpass VDF and Leavy. Which brings me to the fact you don't even have Leavy listed - are you just forgetful or mad? Leavy has won Grand Slams in Twickenham ,scored tries against Sarries in European Quarter Finals and won European Cups but you don't list him?

    That's not even mentioning the players who are rated as better by Farrell such as Jack O'Donoghue who was selected in this 6 Nations squad as a fully senior player. And you're saying Connors (with all of his 48 tackles - he does nothing else around the pitch and has a very limited game) is better than Scott Penny who had 10 tries for Leinster A in his first season across 8 games and has something like 4 tries this season for the Leinster firsts totally underrated and attempted to be undermined by people like you looking for a wind up.

    To my mind Penny is the better all round 7 than Connors and is a better link man with good hands. He suits the Leinster style of 7 better than a Charlatan who looks to get his tackle stats up for the keyboard warriors on Boards and Leinsterfans to tout.

    Very poor attmept to tout a overrated and underwhleming player Connors. Pathetic.”


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