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Why some people think 9/11 was an inside job

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,652 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    You wont get an answer there, as its impossible and debunks the controlled demoltion theory, by normal explosives or nanothermite.

    Again, for the theory to have any credibility, he now has to explain how "they" (who "they" are is still TBC) rigged 3 buildings in one of the busiest and most secure locations on earth, across 267 floors, 12 million square feet of floor space, 500 different companies and 40,000 employees while avoiding security cameras, round the clock full time private, local and federal security.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Again, for the theory to have any credibility, he now has to explain how "they" (who "they" are is still TBC) rigged 3 buildings in one of the busiest and most secure locations on earth, across 267 floors, 12 million square feet of floor space, 500 different companies and 40,000 employees while avoiding security cameras, round the clock full time private, local and federal security.

    • Claim "it's suspected" that they went in at weekends and nights and rigged the skyscrapers, like it's coming from another source
    • Decorate it with false factual sounding stuff, e.g. 'there's speculation they may not have been American'
    • Cherry-pick something from history, e.g. 'there was a building where significant structural work went unnoticed by building occupants'
    • If pressed on details or evidence, deflect by again luring people to prove the buildings fell due to fire (which will be rejected)
    • If this doesn't work, use Gish Gallop, and keep jumping until something sticks and diverts attention




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    The claim being made for WTC 7 is that it fell at free fall speed. Of this is to be accepted then this must mean thay very single support on very single floor of the buildings 47 levels have to have been rigged to explode.

    And these charges have to have been protected for the fires that were ripping through the building because all of them have to go off all at the same time to produce the free fall we keep hearing about.

    This also leads to the problem of the sound of hundreds/thousands of explosives going off would be very noticeable on recordings.

    Previously it was being claimed that this was due to "nanothermite" which is claimed to be silent. But this also leads to the issue that it wouldn't be able to do the instantaneous severing of support an explosive can. (And the fact that it's been proved no thermite reaction took place.)

    However it seems like the theory has changed again and now WTC7 was destroyed with conventional demolition explosives. Which leads back to the sound problem again.


    You'd think with so many experts supposedly behind the conspiracy theories they'd have been able to produce a consistent alternative theory after 22 years. But we're still flip flowing between contradictory ideas.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,652 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    So it seems the problems with the controlled demolition theory are:

    A:) It would have been impossible to rig the buildings unnoticed

    B:) It would have been impossible to bring down the buildings without huge explosion noises



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    C) There's no evidence of explosives, charges or related

    D) There's no evidence of detonators, cords, cut beams or anything associated with demolition

    E) There's no evidence, leaks, whistle-blowers of anyone ever rigging or being asked to rig any of the buildings

    All of which is corroborated by multiple investigations (including insurance investigations)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Also the problems Dohnjoe suggested.

    And also the first that these buildings were in the middle of ragging fires after being hit by planes. Any demolition charges, regardless of how or where they are planted, would be at risk of damage from these things. Unless of course the conspirators on top of secretly planting thousands of charges, also where able to predict or control where the planes and fires would be. Such a suggestion is obviously ridiculous and on the level of talking about hologram planes and space lasers.

    If the charges were conventional demolition explosives that Cheerful now argues for in WTC7, then any fires or impact damage would at least result in their failure to detonate on cue, which would make the collapse planned impossible.

    Or if the charges swing back to being magic super thermite again, then the fires risk the charges being set off early as thermite will ignite at relativily low temperatures or in the presence of fire or a spark.

    If the claim is going to be that the conspirators somehow knew how to protect these charges from damage (using some unknown method) then it adds yet another layer of complexity and impossibility to the idea of 8 people planting thousands of charges over a weekend.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Yes, that is essentially what happened, according to NIST's official story. To further clarify, I have to post some images for others to understand it.

    In the image provided, you will notice trusses under the concrete Additionally, there was a railing-type bar( not shown here) that linked the trusses to interior frame facade. This bar played a pivotal role, allegedly, in the collapse of the structure. Once the trusses started to sag, the railing-type bar pulled in the frame from inside, initiating the collapse. Allegedly, because i dont believe it happened like that from fire alone.

    The melting depicted in the video takes place approximately 54 minutes after the plane crash. This footage was captured by multiple civilians cameras in New York. I posted a close-up GIF version. After the hot liquid stream starts, the South tower collapses approximately two minutes later. While it may seem logical to assume that the leak could be related to the crash that started at 9.03 am US time . The videos show a later time when it started. If you need video evidence for that, no problem.

    A bit of background story is needed here to understand all this. It needed a lot of misinformation posted here often.

    The nanothermite theory proposes that the World Trade Center towers were brought down not by the conventional burning of jet fuel, as initially claimed, but by the ignition of nano-thermite explosives. Proponents of this theory argue that the presence of nanothermite residues in the debris from the towers supports this theory.

    Doctor Steven Jones, a professor at Brigham Young University, began conducting early analysis of the WTC dust in a preliminary manner. While his work was not too in-depth, he noticed something intriguing in the dust samples. There were a significant amount of iron materials, shaped in peculiar forms resembling pears and balls. This discovery sparked his curiosity and further investigation into the implications of this finding.

    He began to write some early papers a few years after 9/11

    In the aftermath of the tragic events of 9/11, there was a surge of interest in understanding the causes of the collapse of the Twin Towers. This prompted some individuals, including engineers and chemists, to embark on their own research efforts. This collaborative effort brought together a group of independent individuals who were interested in determining whether Jones' claims were legitimate or if he was just blowing smoke. Each party conducted its own analysis, and the overall findings were published in a scientific journal that garnered significant controversy.

    The paper, which was released online, also sparked debates on forums.

    Link to their research about the nano-thermite in the WTC dust

    https://benthamopen.com/contents/pdf/TOCPJ/TOCPJ-2-7.pdf

    In the case of the research paper in question, the international skeptic forums were buzzing with activity as members discussed the findings, implications, and controversies surrounding the research. The forum members were eager to share their insights, ask questions, and challenge various aspects of the study.

    Link to some of it here.

    http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231314

    After some time, all the debates on a particular site seemed to have reached a point where they no longer presented any new information or insights. As a result, a prominent debater named Chris Mohr sought to bring together a group of like-minded individuals from this site to further investigate this matter.

    Mohr and his colleagues decided to hire a renowned expert in the field, Dr. Milette, to conduct comprehensive research on their behalf. The search took several months, but they finally managed to secure Dr. Milette's services. The theory on the forum suggested that the Benthamopen research paper scientists were seeing and examining chemical elements used in two types of paint and were not nanothermite. WTC paint consisted of two main types, both of which had a red color. One type was a conventional paint, commonly used for primer applications. The other type was a specialized paint, specifically designed for the WTC project.

    MVA Scientific Consultants, where Milette was employed, acquired four samples of WTC dust ( least that is that claim) and presented their early findings on the international skeptic forum. Despite what one individual has claimed on this thread and the R J Lee group not finding it, Milette confirmed the presence of red-like chips within the dust samples.

    http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231314

    Despite the skepticism expressed by some skeptics on this forum, Milette's findings have confirmed many of the claims made by Benthopen scientists regarding the presence of certain elements.

    Milette findings.

    The red side contains the elements: C, O, Al, Si, and Fe with small amounts of other elements such as Ti and Ca. 

    The only obstacle to establishing the presence of nano-thermite in the suspected material is the belief that the aluminum and silicon are mixed in a plate-like material, specifically kaolin. However, the other side holds a different opinion, claiming that aluminum is actually present in separate plates. This discrepancy presents a challenge in reaching a definitive conclusion.

    Nanoscale iron oxide in a paint mixture would have been highly unconventional and could have presented significant engineering challenges. The technical feasibility of incorporating such components into a paint formulation pre-2001 would have been doubtful, as it requires advanced technical knowledge and specialized materials. Milette confirmed that nanoscale iron oxide

    Detailed records of the paints used at the Twin Towers were available, including specifications, chemical compositions, and manufacturers. These records indicated that the paints employed did not contain aluminum or silicon-based materials.or nano Iron oxides, If the red-gray chips are not nano thermite as some believe and not paint, what are they?

    I have written a detailed post here that you can take part in some of it or not. The skeptics have said things I never said on here. First of all, I always believed that nano-thermite was found only at ground zero, not at building seven. I have a different theory about building seven. It is on them if they keep forgetting that three buildings fell and theories for all three. There is only one of me. The fact that I cannot respond to every post is just a fact of life. Try a bit before getting off.

    47 Stories: Rigged?"

    In response to this poster comment, it is important to address the allegation that the 47-story building collapse was rigged. 

    The collapse was a cascading collapse of eight floors (physics shows that all the columns and floors within the affected region collapsed simultaneously). The upper section of the top half came through the open section at freefall acceleration. This physical phenomenon is impossible without the application of explosives.

    When buildings collapse naturally, it is the upper section that typically crushes the bottom half. Newton's Third Law: Action & ReactionI don't know where he's getting the information that the WTC7 was rigged over 47 stories

    One lesser-known fact is that most of the upper floors of the Twin Towers were rented out for free for years based on lease agreements by the Port Authority. These tenants, predominantly art students, What many people fail to mention any longer is that the United States government uncovered a massive Israeli spy ring in 2001. However, what most people do not realize is that many of these individuals, claiming to be art students, were actually intelligence operatives with explosive training and military training. They were involved in covert operations against US facilities. To understand how these alleged art students were able to gain access to the Twin Towers, one must delve into the intricate details of their covert operations inside the United States. If there is enough interest I focus solely on this tomorrow?

    Lastly

    On September 13th and 14th, 2001, there were additional attempts by hijackers to take control of airplanes in the United States. Authorities identified and arrested ten individuals at two airports who were believed to be connected to the attempted hijackings. These individuals were found in possession of similar equipment to the hijackers who carried out the attacks four days earlier. What happened, how they got released—not a single name later was mentioned either. Simply vanished. Who had the power to allow them to go free?

    However, despite these reports being covered in the mainstream news at the time, they have since been erased from history online. You can still find in the archive footage some clips online recently from American news. It's pretty interesting that when you google this, nothing there about the arrests, but there's an American news video of it Anyway I not be replying anymore tonight on this topic said enough here. Tomorrow likely.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    First of all, I always believed that nano-thermite was found only at ground zero, not at building seven. I have a different theory about building seven.

    Here you are, in the WTC 7 thread, insinuating nanothermite was used

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/108374897/#Comment_108374897


    On September 13th and 14th, 2001, there were additional attempts by hijackers to take control of airplanes in the United States. Authorities identified and arrested ten individuals at two airports who were believed to be connected to the attempted hijackings. These individuals were found in possession of similar equipment to the hijackers who carried out the attacks four days earlier. What happened, how they got released—not a single name later was mentioned either. Simply vanished. Who had the power to allow them to go free?

    Because they weren't hijackers, there were arrested for carrying fake documents, which happens all the time, but only made the news because 9/11 had just happened




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,995 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    After the hot liquid stream starts, the South tower collapses approximately two minutes later. 

    No, i dont think it is just before the buildings collapse. Thats the video from straight after the plane crashed. You can see all the debris judt to the left of the video.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭applehunter


    What country stood to benefit most from 9/11?

    What country had infiltrated the US state department in the lead up to the attack?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Not sure why people need to play a guessing game for this. Would make far more sense if you just directly stated who you feel the answer is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Revisiting a five-year-old post in 2023 is weird. You appear to be selectively quoting too. Read that line again

    I  Never once claimed that nanothermite red/grey chips were discovered at WTC7. That's a fact.

    Go ahead and find that post. Do you believe I said otherwise?

    What I said was that the dust samples taken from ground zero showed the presence of nano-thermite chips.

    Sulfur is a volatile element, and it would easily evaporate in a fire. Therefore, the notion that sulfur would jump from an unknown location ( FEMA couldnt identify) onto the steel and start melting it is a rather strange hypothesis. Sulfur was packed into some kind of material that is explosive/ OR nanothermite maybe that explains the swiss cheese appearance of the steel at seven.

    First and foremost, the collapse completely destroyed eight floors of columns, which is a crucial indicator of the impact and force that caused the collapse to happen. Nanothermite, is a substance that is specifically intended to melt down structural components. However, the extensive damage to the columns suggests that the collapse was not a result of melting, but rather due to the sheer force of the impact of blasts.

    At the Twin Towers, the nanothermite had a remarkable impact on the structure and integrity of the building. The powerful substance caused extensive damage by melting down both the light and steel trusses and concrete floors, base just gave away. NIST is right about the bowing in but that caused by the melting. The destruction was so severe that the building essentially disintegrated into a fine dust.

    The news reported that several men had the exact same items in their luggage as Mohamed Atta, We know based on this information that there was going to be more hijackings on 9/11, but the grounding by the FAA stopped that. The lack of arrests is particularly significant in this case. According to multiple individuals at the airport including the air crew, five men boarded the plane, all dressed similarly to the hijackers involved in the tragic incidents on September 11, 2001. These individuals claim that these men became increasingly agitated when the plane didn't take off and got abusive. .The FBI covering up way? What do they not release records, nothing to see here?

    https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/09/11/fbi-wont-release-records-on-reports-of-5th-9-11-plane-targeted/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    Let me know if this helps.At 5 seconds, you can see the liquid pouring out of the corner. The South tower collapses shortly afterward.Better video late here to look further.  




  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's just another example of how you constantly morph and twist and change your theories on this.

    You spend years banging on about "nanothermite" and "thermate" and red/grey chips, then you just post a study by a guy which concludes:

    The red/gray chips found in the WTC dust at four sites in New York City are consistent with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and kaolin clay pigments.


    There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles of any size in the red/gray chips, therefore the red layer of the red/gray chips is not thermite or nano-thermite.




  • Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    OK so you've changed your theory again. That's fine. No need to pretend you weren't claiming something previously.

    But now that your claiming that WTC7 was destroyed by conventional explosives you're back around to the problem of the complete lack of sound of thousands of explosives going off simultaneously.

    We've all seen the footage and and hear plainly that this does not occur. The whole reason you and your fellow conspiracy theorists invented the notion of nanothermite demolition was to explain away this lack of sound.

    It's also strange that you are now rejecting the nanothermite theory for WTC7 given that the "experts" at AE9/11 claim that's what took the building down.

    I guess they are also wrong now and we should no longer accept anything they say.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,995 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Ah yes it does in fairness. But that is where the 2nd plane hit. So isn't it likely there would be some sort of liquid spilling whether it be fuel or whatever? Also that's the only spot. There's no liquid fire spilling from anywhere else only that one spot?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    No, the plane came from the other side of the tower. The corner I am highlighting with the red paint is the area from which the liquid flowed.

    Good Question, Least Asking Me Things Here

    It is highly unlikely that plane fuel would not have burned off after 50+ minutes of the Twin Towers on fire. The intense heat generated by the fire coupled with the oxygen in the air, would have caused the majority of the fuel to evaporate or burn away.

    Upon impact with the Twin Towers, the structural integrity of the plane (hull made of aluminum alloy) would have been compromised. The force of such a collision would have caused the plane to disintegrate into smaller pieces. This event would have destroyed the fuel storage systems on the wings, further exacerbating the likelihood of fuel burning off outside the building.

    It is not definitively ruled out that there are similar large leaks elsewhere around the building, as the cameras seemed to focus primarily on this side of the building during the attack. However, based on the footage I have observed, this is the largest leak that has been observed on video.

    Personally, I watched some footage and spotted liquid leaks inside the building ( not seen this posted online by anyone before). I also posted some images here a month ago. The images showed a liquid leak that appeared to be dropping from the debris or floor into another floor located inside the window. The liquid had a pinkish/white/purple color, making it difficult to make out its exact shade.

    Upon closer examination, I noticed that the liquid was not ordinary. It had a very unusual appearance, comparable to a fire's color. The video captures a leak that persists for quite some time. However, taking a screenshot of the leak proves to be challenging. Despite this, I am able to capture the shade of color associated with the leak.

    While the provided evidence may be described as an anomaly, its inconclusive nature poses challenges in definitively establishing the presence of fuckery.

    Dohnjoe

    The red/gray chips found in the WTC dust at four sites in New York City are consistent with a carbon steel coated with an epoxy resin that contains primarily iron oxide and kaolin clay pigments.

    http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=231314

    The SEM-EDS and backscattered electron (BE) analysis of the cross-sections of the gray layer in the red/gray chip showed it to be primarily iron consistent with a carbon steel.

    He found iron oxide in the gray layer and some carbon, so he assumed that the material was consistent with carbon steel. Claiming that elements were pulled from the steel and molded into a gray material without any explanation is a significant leap. This assertion lacks the necessary details to support or validate the process involved. Without understanding how this feat was accomplished, it is challenging to comprehend the practicality or feasibility of such a claim.

    The cross-sections of the red layer showed the presence of equant-shaped particles of iron consistent with iron oxide pigment and plates of aluminum/silicon consistent with reference samples of kaolin. The thinnest kaolin plates were on the order of 6 nm with many sets of plates less than 1 micrometer thick. Small x-ray peaks of other elements were sometimes present.

    They observed that the very same thing was found in the red part, which is nothing new. The Harrit XEDS and SEMS tests all revealed the presence of silicon, aluminum, and iron peaks, specifically in the red portion of the material. This discovery adds further credence to the theory that the red layer holds key information about the material's composition. One of the key differences between the Milette and Harrit teams pertains to their assertions regarding the purity of the aluminum found in the red layer of nano-thermite. Milette argued that the aluminum present is impure and has mixed with silicon, while Harrit's team asserts that this is not the case.

    It is false to claim there is no aluminum or iron oxide in the red layer. Since both ingredients of thermite are there, we have to see if one of the sides is making wrong assumptions.

     The red side contains the elements: C, O, Al, Si, and Fe with small amounts of other elements such as Ti and Ca. Based on the infrared absorption (FTIR) data, the C/O matrix material is an epoxy resin. Based on the optical and electron microscopy data, the Fe/O particles are an iron oxide pigment consisting of crystalline grains in the 100-200 nm range and the Al/Si particles are kaolin clay plates that are less than a micrometer thick. There is no evidence of individual elemental aluminum particles detected by PLM, SEM-EDS, or TEM-SAED-EDS, during the analyses of the red layers in their original form or after sample preparation by ashing, thin sectioning or following MEK treatment.

    This is one of many issues that arise here.

    Milette confirms here that the red layer of Iron oxide measures between 100 and 200 nanometers, making it a nanoparticle. However, it is important to note that the designation of iron oxide as a nanoparticle raises some concerns. Generally, nanoparticles are used in various industrial applications due to their unique properties.

    However, in the context of paint, nanoparticles of iron oxide would be extremely expensive, especially when the towers were originally constructed and even in 2001. The additional costs associated with the production and application of such paint would make it economically unviable for paint manufacturers to consider this option. Furthermore, the iron oxide nanoparticles in question are uniform in size. Plus, the oxide is neatly layered on the red layer chip.

    Notes on the Source of the Red/Gray Chips

    At the time of this progress report, the identity of the product from which the red/gray chips were generated has not been determined. The composition of the red/gray chips found in this study (epoxy resin with iron oxide and kaolin pigments) does not match the formula for the primer paint used on iron column members in the World Trade Center towers (

    Even Milette and Chris Mohr have acknowledged on the forum that the chemical composition of the paint used on the Twin Towers does not match the chip they tested. Skeptics often debate the topic of paint, but the red or gray chips in question are not paint, despite claims to the contrary. If the skeptics are to be believed, the red or gray chips are not nanothermite. However, the presence of these chips raises concerns, as they should not be there. It is possible that we may be dealing with a unique type of nanothermite that is difficult to fully understand. Alternatively, it is also possible that Milette made a mistake with the aluminum/silicon tests

     Some skeptics argued that additional tests were not necessary, as Milette had already shown that the material was not nanothermite.

    One of the main concerns raised by some even on that Forum was that the Harrit team had conducted a specific DSC test and one other to demonstrate the presence of nanothermite in the material samples. In response to this criticism, Milette was asked why he had decided to skip conducting the DSC test. Initially, he responded by saying that the test was not necessary, but later changed his mind and said that he would do the test.

    However, he also mentioned that he would need an expert to analyze the results, as he lacked the expertise to do so himself.

    Milette then suggested sending the chips to laboratories for further investigation. He emphasized that these laboratories possessed the necessary expertise and could provide a more accurate analysis.

    Rereading that forum debate, some of it I had forgotten. It's good to get the other side's perspective. after all this time. Thread from 2012 to 2015. I may have forgotten some debates here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    debate

    There's no real debate over this

    Hijackers flew planes into the buildings, the buildings fell down, it's not a mystery

    Conspiracy believers (and some deniers) refuse to accept this, they attack the facts in order to hint at conspiracy theories, which are usually vague. Your belief, extracted for endless pages of denial/technical word salad, is that secret Nazis, Mossad, FBI, CIA, Saudi Princes, the US president, US generals, Biden (and others) conspired with terrorists and Pakistani intelligence (who weren't aware of each other) to blow up and melt skyscrapers after they were hit by planes in NY

    Okay. So how did it work?

    Why would they "blow up" building 7? If they wanted to destroy this building, uh, they had complete access to it when "rigging" it up for controlled demolition..

    What if one of the planes missed one of the World Trade Center towers? A giant stack of evidence would be left there rigged to the hilt with explosives

    Why are these people dumber than cartoon villains in your story, yet manage to pull everything off so flawlessly and perfectly?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    I believe the theory was that the conspirators wanted to destroy some papers in WTC7 that were stored in a CIA office or something.

    Those now that the theory has shifted from nanothermite fires to conventional explosives, I'm not sure how this was supposed to guarantee that the papers would be destroyed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,652 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    How did the conventional explosives not make any noise?!



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,995 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    No, the plane came from the other side of the tower. The corner I am highlighting with the red paint is the area from which the liquid flowed.

    Yes, sorry thats what i meant thats the side of the collision not the initial point of contact, as in it came in from the back of where were looking and cut through to where you showed the liquid spilling. There's no possible way the hijacker could have known the exact point the explosives were at and to head for them though?



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    The whole point of the Nanothermite stuff was to explain the lack of noise. I believe now the argument is that the sound of thousands of explosive charges going off all at once is actually present in the videos of the building's collapse, we're just too biased or uninformed to hear it correctly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    I propose that there are very possible moles within Al-Qaeda, Saudi intelligence, or ISI. may have provided crucial intelligence.

    Hannibal Smith is who I am replying to here.

    Scenario

    Intel of an impending attack passed to handlers associated with Western intelligence agencies. This intelligence could have included information about specific airports being targeted, potential hijackers involved, and even potential targets, such as the Pentagon and Twin Towers.

    The leaked plan was both informative and thorough, allowing a second group to intervene and proceed with the demolition. The second group had meticulously planned different versions of the demolition operation, considering various scenarios and potential pitfalls.

    While the first group ( hijackers) had carried out a terrorist attack in the country, the second group ( controllers of the demolition crew) must have had some control of the situation and would potentially disrupt things further during the investigation later. It is plausible that the second group, if there was neocon involvement, possessed enough power to shut down the investigation, considering many business leaders and military figures were in control of the country. When examining the situation individually, certain aspects may seem implausible or unlikely. However, when taking into account all the evidence available, a very different picture emerges. This comprehensive collection of information provides a more comprehensive and cohesive understanding of the scenario.

    One of the primary reasons why a second group may have decided to use nanothermite instead of explosives in the Twin Towers attack is time. Nanothermite is a type of "super" thermite that reacts extremely quickly when ignited, resulting in the rapid melting and decomposition of materials. This feature would allow the second group to quickly destroy the Twin Towers, potentially minimizing the time required for the entire operation

    Another consideration that may have influenced the second group's decision to use nanothermite instead of explosives is the need for a larger team. Nanothermite requires specialized knowledge and expertise in handling and deploying this material. Explosives require a significant amount of effort because they aim to blow up a steel structure, which presents a significant challenge. On the other hand, nanothermite focuses on dismantling the same structure by melting it down. This approach weakens the entire building, ultimately leading to its collapse. However, it is important to note that nano thermite can also be tailored to achieve explosive results ( explain more on this later, don't forget)

    Nanothermite was the only method used in the destruction of the Twin Towers on 9/11.

    The demolition crew responsible for taking down the buildings was most likely smaller than a traditional explosive demolition crew. Traditional explosives demolition job would have required the drilling of holes and insertion of explosives directly into the columns and then a denotation cord. The nanothermites would be placed on steel with no drilling (heat and chemical reaction) doing the destruction there.

    Lastly, the use of explosives instead of nanothermite in the Twin Towers attack may have caused more disruption and operational complexity. The second group may have opted for nanothermite to minimize the risk of detection.In order to become involved and since not a member of any Middle Eastern terrorist group, it is important to employ materials that minimize the risk of exposure.

    Nanothermite, once again, is not a material attached to a whole bunch of wiring and detonator cords. It is, in essence, a dormant material until it is ignited by heat and flames. A fire inside the Twin Towers has the ideal conditions for starting the ignition of this material.

    Good question.

    New York is known for its tall skyscrapers, making it reasonable to assume that a large plane under the control of a hijacker pilot would be aiming for the upper section of these structures. It is important to note again that even if the plane were to hit the building lower, it does not necessarily matter where the impact occurs. The start of the fires would set off the chemical reaction of nano-thermite, regardless of the exact point of impact.

    Come on here (skeptics) and say impossible; they did like that. Despite their claims, there is overwhelming physical evidence and eyewitness testimony that contradicts their skepticism.

    They say this too. The building was occupied and full of people before the attacks, making it highly improbable that such a daring operation could have taken place without detection. However, the skeptics chose to ignore this physical evidence and the testimony of those who were there before NIST

    Scientific theories are formulated based on existing evidence and a logical framework. However, it is crucial for theories to be supported by physical evidence to ensure their validity. Try to do this next

    1) There was an extensive amount of iron that melted during the fires. The WTC dust contains vast amounts of iron that were observed to have melted and solidified in different forms. This confirms that the melting took place during the fires, refuting claims by some in the skeptical community that it happened later. The WTC dust itself is a valuable source of evidence, providing valuable information about the chemical reactions that took place during the fires.

    Can nanothermite melt iron or even produce iron during a chemical reaction?

    Yes, nanothermite can both melt iron and produce iron during a chemical reaction. Nanothermite is a compound that combines nanoscale aluminum and iron oxide particles, resulting in a highly energetic and reactive material. When nanothermite is detonated or ignited, it produces a rapid release of heat and extreme temperatures. These high temperatures enable it to melt iron and even produce iron.

    2) ability to generate intense heat. The melting point of Iron is relatively high, around 1,538 degrees Celsius (2,800 degrees Fahrenheit). However, when nanothermite is ignited, it generates temperatures exceeding 4,000 degrees Celsius (7,232 degrees Fahrenheit). These extreme temperatures can easily surpass the melting point of Iron, causing it to melt and transform into a liquid state.

    One such study, conducted by R J Lee Group, provides strong evidence that heat was of an extremely high magnitude, resulting in the melting of iron and steel. However, despite this, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) has refrained from acknowledging this phenomenon.

    4) Is there any evidence of melting inside the building or outside? The presence of melted material suggests that the building experienced a sudden and intense thermal event, resulting in the rapid melting of materials. The color of the melted material, which resembles liquid iron, suggests a possible iron-based compound.

    5) Does anyone remember seeing any molten or liquid iron or steel? Another one of NIST's lies that has been repeatedly debunked is the claim that no member of the rescue efforts or clean-up crews described molten or liquid steel at Ground Zero on 9/11. This claim has been thoroughly investigated and proven to be false. You have this corrupt NIST group coming along and claiming that nobody ever made that claim. You can hear them on this video describing like lava flow liquid flowing down the steel channel rails called molten steel. Numerous videos have emerged on the internet, contradicting the official account of the incident.


    6) During the television program, the firemen described a liquid material that appeared to be flowing within the rubble. They mentioned that the liquid had a distinct lava-like appearance. The search for the photograph was a prolonged endeavor, as it was posted on an online blog at some point after 9/11. Despite its historical significance, it has since become challenging to locate now online due to the censorship that followed the event. However, I had a saved copy of the original image on my computer.

    The most well known skeptics still active on this site have attempted to assert that this is an instance of sparks, but they have missed two key observations. Firstly, sparks do not persist in pools or second last more than a second once in the air. Secondly, the evidence presented does not align with the characteristics of sparks. we had a lengthy debate about the second fireman as well.

    The skeptics among us were convinced that the figure located between the columns was another person. However, to me, the second fireman ( middle one and the position of his hands resemble the odd-place image. This could be an artifact of the camera processing or an image processing issue.

    7) No documented cases (I am aware of) of office buildings catching fire and subsequent collapse leading to the formation of meteorite looking like rocks? This is extreme heat doing this.


    8)Wrap-Up of the Evidence for Nanothermite

    Despite what skeptics have said for weeks on here that there is no evidence of any strange material in the dust, that is not true.

    Dr James Milette confirmed the presence of all the chemical elements that would make up thermite. Fe is iron oxide. Al is Aluminum

    Quoting Millete research here.

    One of the key aspects of his argument is the absence of distinct traces of elementary aluminum in the samples he has. Consequently, he posits that the aluminum found in his chips is more likely in the form of aluminum-silicate plates, which would result in a material similar to Kaolin.

    The analysis of SEM (Scanning Electron Microscopy) and XEDS (X-ray Energy Dispersive Spectroscopy) does provide valuable insights into the chemical composition of a mysterious substance. The results will not reveal any definitive evidence to suggest the separation of aluminum and silicon. To gain a better understanding of the composition of nanothermite and its burning behavior, researchers have employed various analytical techniques.

    The aspect that stands out as particularly stunning in this whole situation is that Dr. Milette never did any tests to determine the behavior of his chips when exposed to temperatures of 400 degrees Celsius. While Harrit and mainstream literature indicate that nanothermite ignites at a relatively low temperature, releases heat, and produces molten iron, Dr. Milette did not bother to verify this claim.

    As a result, we remain uncertain about whether the Milette is capable of performing this function. Harrit did discover the presence of molten iron after the burning process at 400c, which further emphasizes the need for further investigation

    Milette was asked why he never conducted a similar DSC test as the Harrit team did. Initially, he responded that he would not do the test. However, he later changed his mind and stated that he would conduct the test. However, he also mentioned that others would need to review the results. Furthermore, he recommended utilizing other experts, as he believed that he was not qualified to provide the necessary expertise. It is evident that skeptics were hesitant to spend more money on additional experts.

    Eleven years since that debate started, the question of whether or not the Millete chips are exothermic and produce iron after burning at 400 degrees Celsius has not been answered. Harrit chips were identified as nanothermite because, when burned, the material released a high flash of heat and was found in the residue had molten iron.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    NIST are absolute liars and supported the cover up.

    Here is there claim 

    In case you got bad hearing, turn up the volume by 0–1 seconds.

    The occurrence of a thud (which could easily be blasts) suggests that there was some sort of impact or disturbance happening in the direction of the building. The subsequent collapse of the Penthouse, located on the top floors of Building 7, further highlights the significance of the thud. The Penthouse's sudden and dramatic collapse indicates that something caused it to lose its structural integrity right after that very loud thud.

    According to NIST's model, the collapse began with the failure or damage of structural elements on the lower floors of the building on the east side. This initial damage allowed a cascade effect, where the failure of one structural component led to the failure of others below. The upper floors on the Eastside collapsed due to a sudden and massive failure that occurred specifically on that side of the building.

    The model that is claiming a failure started at the bottom and brought down the Penthouse raises several concerns and inconsistencies. Firstly, the model fails to explain the apparent lack of westward progression in the collapse at the bottom. This lack of westward movement defies the laws of physics and contradicts established theories regarding the dynamics and behavior of structural failures. Once those columns are removed from the east side, the progression towards the collapse of the Penthouse must have already begun on the other side as well. The delay in this matter is far too long.

    During my analysis of the video involving the penthouse crashing through the roof and the subsequent collapse of the structure, I observed that it took approximately 5 seconds for the building to start its freefall descent. However, it is important to note that freefall cannot occur unless there is an east to west progression of steel column failures and the dispersion of debris at the bottom levels of the building.

    For me, we hear a demolition going off in the video. Clear that thud is louder than a gunshot blast or concert speaker.



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,230 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    According to you, this "thud" is the sound of thousands of demolition explosives going off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,652 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    It absolutely could not be blasts.

    This is what a controlled demolition sounds like. And this is just two 12 story buildings. Not 2 x 110 story skyscrapers and 52 story building.

    I see your back to Nanothermite now but again, cant explain how they rigged the buildings. Because its impossible. So you've debunked your own theory.

    NIST were correct.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,841 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    That reminds me, you put the NIST experts in as 9/11 co-conspirators, in there with the secret Nazis and George Bush.

    You casually dismiss hundreds of investigators, experts, separate insurance investigations yet magically you have faith in known cranks like Gage and co who openly milk money from conspiracy believers. Makes little sense, but okay.

    At this point it seems you are so vested in denying 9/11 facts that you are unable to back out of it. Like it's become some perverse hobby whereby you can't resist indulging in rehashing the same rebutted points over and over again.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1 workerdam


    The 9/11 attacks was done by the government using holograms to hide the rackets hitting the twin towers. Just for the reason that Bush could invade the middle East and secure himself the oil!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,287 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Seems like a rash of trolls showing up today.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Cheerful S


    That statement is a lie. I have not only read the reports, but I have also carefully examined the physical evidence and videos that have presented anomalies. It is perplexing why the NIST agency dismissed eyewitness accounts, as these testimonies can serve as valuable sources of information. Moreover, the physical evidence and videos that have captured inconsistencies cannot be ignored. 

    You call me out for believing in a conspiracy version of the events surrounding the 9/11 attacks, and yet when I present evidence of the New York firefighters who were actually there as witnesses describing a lava-like liquid in the rubble of the Twin Towers, you seem to think that their views and descriptions should be dismissed because NIST does not have this information in their report.

    Dismissing the testimony of the firefighters simply because they do not match the official narrative put forth by NIST is unfair and unjust.In the rubble of the Twin Towers, there is a picture that captures the eerie and unsettling sight of lava-like liquid flowing amidst the debris. If indeed the liquid was present and visible to those at the scene, it raises questions about why it was not mentioned in the official reports or findings!!

    Do you not see their accounts match the picture and yet try to come on here and tell me its conspiracy nonsense?Firefighters' accounts are often trusted and taken as fact about 9/11 (why not here?). However, if individuals like yourself take a moment to consider the conspiracy version, you will uncover a different story. 

    When iron is subjected to high temperatures, it undergoes a melting process. The resulting liquid typically exhibits a reddish or yellowish color. The color of the leaked liquid in the video is consistent with the appearance of melted iron. The claims made by the R J Lee group regarding the large quantities of iron particles created during the fires at the World Trade Center (WTC) and the subsequent presence of liquid-like material in the WTC towers have not been investigated by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST).

    NIST, the National Institute of Standards and Technology, was appointed by the Neocons, a group of political conservatives, to carry out an investigation into a fire that took place. However, there are indications that NIST may have been politically motivated from the start.

    One of the main concerns with NIST's investigation is the number of errors in their work. These errors raise questions about the integrity of their findings. Dismissing evidence, such as ignoring contradictory evidence, further calls into question the motivations of NIST's investigators.



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