RIC and DMP to be commemorated this month

marieholmfan

feargale wrote: »

I suppose we can take it from your post that you approve of what the Tipperary thug did at Soloheadbeg.
And while you are at it, why don't you make an equally callous joke about the 186 children murdered in the more recent troubles, including those at Omagh and Warrington and the Maguire children?
The fact that you are not the first of your persuasion to stoop so low doesn't make it better.

You are a disgrace, sir.

Save the virtue signalling for the Irish Independent.

Junkyard Tom

feargale wrote: »

I assume that you stand by the GFA. You must therefore realise that UI requires a slice of unionism to hive off.

No it doesn't.

FrancieBrady

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No it doesn't.

I guess Feargale is operating under the partitionist/unionist delusion that the bar can just be set higher and higher on the constitutional issue.
He/she certainly operates under the unionist centric view that they are owed appeasement.

Junkyard Tom

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I guess Feargale is operating under the partitionist/unionist delusion that the bar can just be set higher and higher on the constitutional issue.
He/she certainly operates under the unionist centric view that they are owed appeasement.

It's a measure of the level of indulgence unionists are afforded that anyone even suggests their consent be required to bring an end to the rotten sectarian statelet their forefathers created.

An apology for NI's failures would be much more appropriate.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I guess Feargale is operating under the partitionist/unionist delusion that the bar can just be set higher and higher on the constitutional issue.
He/she certainly operates under the unionist centric view that they are owed appeasement.

"One nation" republicanism rears its head once again.

The aspiration in the GFA is to unite the people of this island, it is not about counting votes and subjugating the other side. However, neither of the two sectarian parties in the North or many of their apologists (I don't want to call them supporters because most of them deny voting for them) are able to see that.

Uniting the people of this island may mean that we learn to accept in perpetuity the current constitutional arrangements and live together happily on that basis. It may mean other things, too, before people lose their mind responding.

The fact that we are seeing declines in the total nationalist vote in the North and the total unionist vote in the North gives me hope that we can put aside outdated notions of nationalism and borders and live in peace.

marieholmfan

A United Ireland based on a sectarian headcount won't happen. But the fact is that no one who cares about the RIC would vote for a United Ireland in a fit!


Brexit will be an omnishambles and that will drive a united Ireland.


If Brexit works out for Northern Ireland and Leo and Coveney in fairness to them have consistently worked to protect the people of Northern Ireland from this omnishambles then there will be no United Ireland but we will go along as we do now so who cares?


Amusingly Leo's knee jerk partitionism is a great motivator for FG to make sure that Northern Ireland is as protected as possible from the consequences of the UK's decision.

blanch152 wrote: »

"One nation" republicanism rears its head once again.

The aspiration in the GFA is to unite the people of this island, it is not about counting votes and subjugating the other side. However, neither of the two sectarian parties in the North or many of their apologists (I don't want to call them supporters because most of them deny voting for them) are able to see that.

Uniting the people of this island may mean that we learn to accept in perpetuity the current constitutional arrangements and live together happily on that basis. It may mean other things, too, before people lose their mind responding.

The fact that we are seeing declines in the total nationalist vote in the North and the total unionist vote in the North gives me hope that we can put aside outdated notions of nationalism and borders and live in peace.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

"One nation" republicanism rears its head once again.

However, neither of the two sectarian parties in the North or many of their apologists (I don't want to call them supporters because most of them deny voting for them) are able to see that.

Uniting the people of this island may mean that we learn to accept in perpetuity the current constitutional arrangements and live together happily on that basis. It may mean other things, too, before people lose their mind responding.

The fact that we are seeing declines in the total nationalist vote in the North and the total unionist vote in the North gives me hope that we can put aside outdated notions of nationalism and borders and live in peace.

there is NO 'aspiration' in the GFA.

There is a recognition of 'aspirations' though. And it recognises the 'aspiration' to a United Ireland by stating that once a majority vote for that, it will happen. No if's no but's...it will happen.

You guys want to raise that bar.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

there is NO 'aspiration' in the GFA.

There is a recognition of 'aspirations' though. And it recognises the 'aspiration' to a United Ireland by stating that once a majority vote for that, it will happen. No if's no but's...it will happen.

You guys want to raise that bar.

The GFA enshrines the right of veto to the ROI electorate.

There will be no appetite to take on an economic basketcase with a 49% minority opposed to a UI.

The bar will be set as high as we desire it to be. Awl fellas like yourself, who don't need to worry about the consequences will not be the arbiters, it's people like me, who will be asked to pay for it, that will ultimately decide.

It's decades away yet lad, many decades.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

The GFA enshrines the right of veto to the ROI electorate.

There will be no appetite to take on an economic basketcase with a 49% minority opposed to a UI.

The bar will be set as high as we desire it to be. Awl fellas like yourself, who don't need to worry about the consequences will not be the arbiters, it's people like me, who will be asked to pay for it, that will ultimately decide.

It's decades away yet lad, many decades.

Who is 'we'?

Junkyard Tom

blanch152 wrote: »

Uniting the people of this island may mean that we learn to accept in perpetuity the current constitutional arrangements and live together happily on that basis

That's a bit like saying 'uniting the people of Berlin may mean accepting the wall that divides them'. Not so much mental gymnastics as neurotic contortions.

Your 'argument to moderation' is a poorly disguised appeal to maintain the sectarian unionist project in the northeast in perpetuity.

Not sure if you noticed what's happened in recent times but that 'precious union' you want maintained forever is coming apart at the seams.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who is 'we'?

The people who won't pay extra taxes to fund a Shinner land grab.


There's loads of us.

efanton

facehugger99 wrote: »

The GFA enshrines the right of veto to the ROI electorate.

There will be no appetite to take on an economic basketcase with a 49% minority opposed to a UI.

The bar will be set as high as we desire it to be. Awl fellas like yourself, who don't need to worry about the consequences will not be the arbiters, it's people like me, who will be asked to pay for it, that will ultimately decide.

It's decades away yet lad, many decades.

so how does that square with the current administration in Stormont.
Unionist MLA's (from all parties) are in the minority for the first time.

I think anyone who believes a United Ireland is not possible in the next two or three decades is not being at all realistic. But because its possible that doesn't mean its certain.

BREXIT isn't played out yet. No final deal as regards trade, tariffs, or trading standards have been agreed and the British government have already signalled that there is likely to be significant divergence. Even though a fudge has been put in place as regards an open border, if businesses in Northern Ireland have to play by different rules to the majority of their customers, will those that run those businesses and those that work for those businesses might look favourably at the only alternative that will be on offer, a United Ireland.

I'm not expecting there to be a significant swing if that happens, but it would not have to be a huge swing either for the majority in Northern Ireland to want to seriously consider becoming part of a United Ireland.
Things are changing in the North, slowly but surely, the fanatics are being replaced by those that are more moderate and willing to cooperate and work with each other in both the NI administration, county councils and other organisations. The general public are changing too, no longer is it a case that people have to take sides, Unionist or Nationalist, many now from both traditions prefer to be labelled as neither.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

The people who won't pay extra taxes to fund a Shinner land grab.


There's loads of us.

Ah yeh...The 'vast majority' I think you called it before.

I think, no more than Charlie Flanagan did, you displayed in that interpretation of a poll a peculiar ability to delude yourself that there is a majority out there that think like you. Like Charlie found out inside a few sweaty hours, there isn't really.

facehugger99

efanton wrote: »

so how does that square with the current administration in Stormont.
.

Who cares?

It's the ROI who will decide whether to proceed or not - that has been enshrined by the GFA and the removal of the previous constitutional claim.

What the Nordies decide is in some ways completely irrelevant. It's those who will be asked to pick up the €12 billion a year tab that are the real players.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Who cares?

It's the ROI who will decide whether to proceed or not - that has been enshrined by the GFA and the removal of the previous constitutional claim.

What the Nordies decide is in some ways completely irrelevant. It's those who will be asked to pick up the €12 billion a year tab that are the real players.

I see it's '12 billion' today.

Have you guys not learnt what happens when you try to lie to the Irish people on these matters or pull the wool over their eyes?

In less than 24 hours they can have a government losing it's **** and retreating.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I see it's '12 billion' today.

Have you guys not learnt what happens when you try to lie to the Irish people on these matters or pull the wool over their eyes?

In less than 24 hours they can have a government losing it's **** and retreating.

It's good you have such concrete figures of your own to rebut with Francie.:rolleyes:

Do you think you should post a link to your much-beloved report with the made-up figures again? :pac:

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's good you have such concrete figures of your own to rebut with Francie.:rolleyes:

Do you think you should post a link to your much-beloved report with the made-up figures again? :pac:

I have posted many opinions and reports, with a myriad of figures and outcomes, dividends and potential costs - one off and ongoing..

Depending what day it is or what side of the bed you got out off, it is 9,10, 11 or 12 billion.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have posted many opinions and reports, with a myriad of figures and outcomes, dividends and potential costs - one off and ongoing..

All pie in the sky nonsense.

jmcc

The Black and Tans and the Auxillaries were members of the RIC. That's a historical fact. Flanagan and Varadkar tried to obscure that fact by trying to claim that the RIC was full of nationalist Irishmen. It didn't end well and showed Flanagan and Varadkar to be completely ignorant of Irish history. That approach failed. Now the neo-Unionists are trying to use the costs of reunification to scare people.

Regards...jmcc

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have posted many opinions and reports, with a myriad of figures and outcomes, dividends and potential costs - one off and ongoing..

Depending what day it is or what side of the bed you got out off, it is 9,10, 11 or 12 billion.

And all of them commissioned by Sinn Fein, in one guise or another, some of them shamelessly masquerading as "independent" reports.

James Brown

jmcc wrote: »

The Black and Tans and the Auxillaries were members of the RIC. That's a historical fact. Flanagan and Varadkar tried to obscure that fact by trying to claim that the RIC was full of nationalist Irishmen. It didn't end well and showed Flanagan and Varadkar to be completely ignorant of Irish history. That approach failed. Now the neo-Unionists are trying to use the costs of reunification to scare people.

Regards...jmcc

They get nasty when they run out of road. Seems you're 'immature' if you aren't cool with commemorating the RIC/Tans.
I would disagree on the ignorance point, (although that may apply to Varadkar) Flanagan knew what he was doing.

buried

I don't know why there is all this scaremongering about the reunification not happening.

The RIC beat the $hit and murdered people in the Northern part of the island too.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

And all of them commissioned by Sinn Fein, in one guise or another, some of them shamelessly masquerading as "independent" reports.

Perhaps your boogeymen need to be portrayed as 'sinister'?

You guys really need to stop trying to censor/or stop the debate. It is going to happen.
Commission your own reports and data. Because just calling all other work 'pie in the sky' is not going to work.

Do the research and then maybe some political party will be brave enough to oppose unification on your behalf.

facehugger99

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You guys really need to stop trying to censor/or stop the debate. It is going to happen.

Really?- Be sure and let us know when.

The only thing the RIC commemoration fiasco has achieved is to push 'the debate' back further than ever - perhaps that was the plan all along .

Perhaps instead of (again) accusing posters, on thread, of trying to censor you, you should make an official complaint to a Mod outlining the restrictions you feel you're facing in being able to post dozens of times a day on multiple threads - that's just a suggestion.

FrancieBrady

facehugger99 wrote: »

Really?- Be sure and let us know when.

The only thing the RIC commemoration fiasco has achieved is to push 'the debate' back further than ever - perhaps that was the plan all along .

Perhaps instead of (again) accusing posters, on thread, of trying to censor you, you should make an official complaint to a Mod outlining the restrictions you feel you're facing in being able to post dozens of times a day on multiple threads - that's just a suggestion.

What I was referring to is the constant belittling of the debate with comments like 'pie in the sky', while never ever producing figures of any substance yourself.
The '9/10/11/12 billions and billions' mantra is a censorious one as well. The 'mouth breathers' abuse is more of it.


You are at the end of the day, random internet posters, with no political voice or backing and with absolutely no research of your own.

feargale

jmcc wrote: »

The Black and Tans and the Auxillaries were members of the RIC. That's a historical fact. Flanagan and Varadkar tried to obscure that fact by trying to claim that the RIC was full of nationalist Irishmen. It didn't end well and showed Flanagan and Varadkar to be completely ignorant of Irish history. That approach failed. Now the neo-Unionists are trying to use the costs of reunification to scare people.

Regards...jmcc

To describe someone who aspires to a United Ireland as a Unionist is to express a contradiction in terms, and you know it.

jmcc

feargale wrote: »

To describe someone who aspires to a United Ireland as a Unionist is to express a contradiction in terms, and you know it.

This is a thread about the RIC/Black and Tans commemoration. Why are you trying to drag it off topic by introducing scaremongering about the costs of reunification?

Regards...jmcc

feargale

marieholmfan wrote: »

Save the virtue signalling for the Irish Independent.

OMG, we must not call you out on your disgraceful sniggering jibe about child victims. Otherwise we will have to live the rest of our lives with that amoral "virtue signalling" cliché hanging around our necks, that last refuge of those without a conscience.

Sorry to disappoint you, the Indo is not my paper of choice.

feargale

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He ignored the Expert Group advice and bypassed the All Party Committee.

Pretty sneakily then tried to hide behind the EG when it all went tits up.

Yes, almost as sneaky as calling yourself a socialist in Ireland, and "business friendly" in New York when shaking down armchair terrorists who know nothing about Ireland, or real-life ones in Boston like Whitey Bolger.

marieholmfan

feargale wrote: »

OMG, we must not call you out on your disgraceful sniggering jibe about child victins. Otherwise we will have to live the rest of our lives with that amoral "virtue signalling" cliché hanging around our necks, that last refuge of those without a conscience.

Sorry to disappoint you, the Indo is not my paper of choice.

I get it ; you're woke; so stunning, so brave!