Property Market 2020

Reversal

Experience_day wrote: »

See now this is particularly interesting to myself as well. Will people have weaned themselves off the likes of Mcdonalds, Starbucks etc. Fundamentally useless **** that keeps them poor or will they go straight back to it?


Personally I've always been a big fan of the pub. But after a few months without it now, will I simply revert back to how I was before? I know I shouldn't.........but will I?


I do think there must be at least a reasonable percentage that have gotten themselves away from toxic behaviors and habits and that might translate into more savings for houses?


I think the biggest percentage though will be the likes of the "low middle class" eg the ones working at the FAANG companies, financial services etc. They have secure employment greatly reduced costs and for people in a relationship must surely have them close to a deposit for somewhere in the 300-350k category? A 325k place is only 4k a month each for 4 months for a couple...

Ah here, a couple who can save 4K a month, each, aren’t buying a terrace in Drimnagh. Combined yearly income would nearly be the price of the house you quoted.

Experience_day

Reversal wrote: »

Ah here, a couple who can save 4K a month, each, aren’t buying a terrace in Drimnagh. Combined yearly income would nearly be the price of the house you quoted.

Exaggerated maybe but there are a lot of high earners with the capacity to save.

Okay let's say a more modest 65k each. Depending on housing arrangements they could save 2.5k a month fairly easily. So 20k after 4 months. Assuming prior savings means a fairly hefty deposit can be reached soon.

Ursabear

A modest 65k each XD

Experience_day

Ursabear wrote: »

A modest 65k each XD

??

I would say 65k is a pretty modest sum for working professionals in Dublin City....especially as per my original statement ones working in the likes of the tech companies and to a lesser extent financial services which is a lot more middle/back office rather the interesting side of things....

Ursabear

I think it depends on the industry , the majority of people in my industry, college degree holders working in Dublin are on a lot less than that. Closer to 35- 45

snoopboggybog

The 3.5 rule is still fecking me alltogether.

Any one any idea how the council mortages are going now for someone on under 50K. On 42K.

Houses where I want are 195K but could get one 8KM away for 150K but not half as nice, and the ones for 195K are where i grew up.

Pivot Eoin

Experience_day wrote: »

??

I would say 65k is a pretty modest sum for working professionals in Dublin City....especially as per my original statement ones working in the likes of the tech companies and to a lesser extent financial services which is a lot more middle/back office rather the interesting side of things....

I think most over-estimate the basic wages of people in the likes of FB, Google, Linkedin etc.

The tech professionals who get paid the money you THINK they earn are senior developers and above.

Lot of the big tech company workers all on Mid-fifties and then bonus payments. And in the bigger companies, you dont climb the ladder anywhere near as fast as other companies. I've worked in both big techs and smaller start ups, level 5 in a 9 Step ladder to C-Level maxed out about 75k basic. The reason so many join is the "Atmosphere", the free meals, the free gym memberships, the Free beer in the office, the Pension Contribution etc.

For instance in a Marketing Division, very few get to the top 3/4 rungs of this:

MDs (200 - 250k)
C-Level (Chief Marketing/Financial/Tech Officer)130-160k
Director Level (Senior Leadership)100-120k
Department Heads (Head of Digital/Paid Media) 90-100k
Team Leads (Account Directors) 65-75k
Senior Accounts (Senior AM) 45-57k
Accounts (Account Manager) 32k - 40k
Support Staff (Executive) 28 - 35k
Entry Level (Co-Ordinator) 23 - 26k

Experience_day

Pivot Eoin wrote: »

I think most over-estimate the basic wages of people in the likes of FB, Google, Linkedin etc.

The tech professionals who get paid the money you THINK they earn are senior developers and above.

Lot of the big tech company workers all on Mid-fifties and then bonus payments. And in the bigger companies, you dont climb the ladder anywhere near as fast as other companies. I've worked in both big techs and smaller start ups, level 5 in a 9 Step ladder to C-Level maxed out about 75k basic. The reason so many join is the "Atmosphere", the free meals, the free gym memberships, the Free beer in the office, the Pension Contribution etc.

For instance in a Marketing Division, very few get to the top 3/4 rungs of this:

MDs (200 - 250k)
C-Level (Chief Marketing/Financial/Tech Officer)130-160k
Director Level (Senior Leadership)100-120k
Department Heads (Head of Digital/Paid Media) 90-100k
Team Leads (Account Directors) 65-75k
Senior Accounts (Senior AM) 45-57k
Accounts (Account Manager) 32k - 40k
Support Staff (Executive) 28 - 35k
Entry Level (Co-Ordinator) 23 - 26k

Fair enough. A friend recently joined one of them as a business analyst and his salary is more than your department head level...

Certainly in my area of finance I would also say it's a fair bit higher. 5 years experience has me over the 60s before bonus, allowances etc. And Ive been fighting dead man's shoes, definitely not the fastest riser...

Taylor365

Experience_day wrote: »

??

I would say 65k is a pretty modest sum for working professionals in Dublin City....especially as per my original statement ones working in the likes of the tech companies and to a lesser extent financial services which is a lot more middle/back office rather the interesting side of things....

You're out of touch with Dublin salaries, or Dublin salaries are out of touch with everywhere else.


Takes a lot of job switching and negotiating tooth and nail to get a modest salary, never mind 65k!

OwlsZat

Ursabear wrote: »

A modest 65k each XD

Don't feel the trolls!

snoopboggybog

People think Dublin wages are fantastic in I.T when there not really.

If your a very good developer or top of your field yes the money can be crazy which only a handful of people are.

If your middling your looking at 45K to 65K.

Anything else probably 25 to 45K depending where you end up.

awec

snoopboggybog wrote: »

People think Dublin wages are fantastic in I.T when there not really.

If your a very good developer or top of your field yes the money can be crazy which only a handful of people are.

If your middling your looking at 45K to 65K.

Anything else probably 25 to 45K depending where you end up.

Minimum wage in Ireland is like 20k a year.

If someone in IT, a skilled worker, is on as little as 25k a year they are getting absolutely shafted.

awec

Ursabear wrote: »

A modest 65k each XD

OwlsZat wrote: »

Don't feel the trolls!

Modest may be pushing it but 65k a year is certainly not megabucks or uncommon for career professionals in greater Dublin.

Experience_day

Taylor365 wrote: »

You're out of touch with Dublin salaries, or Dublin salaries are out of touch with everywhere else.


Takes a lot of job switching and negotiating tooth and nail to get a modest salary, never mind 65k!

I will be honest and say I've got no idea about outside of Dublin, never applied for a role outside and never will....

OwlsZat wrote: »

Don't feel the trolls!

Are you saying I'm trolling?

snoopboggybog wrote: »

People think Dublin wages are fantastic in I.T when there not really.

If your a very good developer or top of your field yes the money can be crazy which only a handful of people are.

If your middling your looking at 45K to 65K.

Anything else probably 25 to 45K depending where you end up.

If you're getting paid 25k-45k you are getting shafted badly. Graduates start in the 30's......

snoopboggybog

awec wrote: »

Minimum wage in Ireland is like 20k a year.

If someone in IT, a skilled worker, is on as little as 25k a year they are getting absolutely shafted.

That would be the complete low end, 1st line helpdesk role in a small to medium size company answering calls, installing software, password resets, basic desktop support etc..

After maybe 15 years in a specialized field yea you should be hitting the 65K mark.

awec

snoopboggybog wrote: »

That would be the complete low end, 1st line helpdesk role in a small to medium size company answering calls, installing software, password resets, basic desktop support etc..

After maybe 15 years in a specialized field yea you should be hitting the 65K mark.

This sort of role is not really IT, this just sounds like typical low-skill call center first-line support work.

IT workers have degrees and job titles like software engineer, data scientist, program manager, business analyst, service engineer etc..

I guess it depends on what the true definition of "IT" is. If you expand it to include anyone who works with computers then the salary range will obviously be much larger.

snoopboggybog

awec wrote: »

This sort of role is not really IT, this just sounds like typical low-skill call center first-line support work.

IT workers have degrees and job titles like software engineer, data scientist, program manager, business analyst, service engineer etc..

I guess it depends on what the true definition of "IT" is. If you expand it to include anyone who works with computers then the salary range will obviously be much larger.

Ah There's a bit more to it than that, they do a good bit more. Its basically Desktop support and been first line of escalation like getting a user to restart a router on site if internet is down etc, checking for space issues on servers, Building VM's etc.

Its really any IT work that can be documented is what 1st line support does. Can even be lower than 25K in a lot of places.

I've seen jobs advertised as desktop support starting on 40K looking after an office somewhere with 100 or more users.

PommieBast

Julissa Bitter Jeep wrote: »

Majority or minority? Majority of my friends and acquaintances have saved money this last few months, less opportunities to spend and most weren't furloughed.

From what I can see it seems to be majority. Different statistical sample space I guess.


While back saw some stats showing about half the working population on some sort of government support, but that does not admittedly indicate whether they are worse off. I was furloughed and put on salary subsidy but because of the taxation treatment actually ended up slightly better off..

q85dw7osi4lebg

PommieBast wrote: »

From what I can see it seems to be majority. Different statistical sample space I guess.


While back saw some stats showing about half the working population on some sort of government support, but that does not admittedly indicate whether they are worse off. I was furloughed and put on salary subsidy but because of the taxation treatment actually ended up slightly better off..

Same !

PommieBast

Julissa Bitter Jeep wrote: »

Same !

Gonna be screwed over by Revenue come xmas though

ebayissues

snoopboggybog wrote: »

That would be the complete low end, 1st line helpdesk role in a small to medium size company answering calls, installing software, password resets, basic desktop support etc..

After maybe 15 years in a specialized field yea you should be hitting the 65K mark.

Jesus christ, 15years exper and on 65k.....

There is a thread on after hours forum probably less than 6 months old as to how much people earn.

Some figures were rightly off the mark but what stood out to me was many couldn't believe those earning the high salary's because they were not earning them.

Personally 65k isn't great, I'd consider it mere tbh because I want more. I always want more and I'll push myself for more.

If you want to earn more, negotiate a better wage. More importantly upskill and improve your human capital.

Back to property market

dor843088

So ... how bout that property market

JimmyVik

missmed wrote: »

The property market is reopening this coming Monday, back to physical viewings. There is a lack to supply and pent up demand according to EA’s. Based on this can we expect bidding wars on houses currently on market? or will people hold off and wait for more houses to come to market or possible future price drops?

I had made up my mind to hold off.
But now i dont know. I change with the wind.

Marius34

Reversal wrote: »

Am I the only one who cannot understand how the “saving a bomb during lockdown” effect will exert any real upward pressure on prices. It’s not like would be buyers had 15k euro luxury holidays planned that they’ve cancelled.

Say a couple have been saving 3500 pm instead of 2000, maybe some have benefited more, but you have imagine for the majority the difference is probably less. So an extra 1500 pm for 4 month, 6K. So that’s a buying power increase of 1~2%, not exactly earth shattering against a backdrop of less approvals, lower earnings and job losses.

Anyone who had enough disposable to benefit from the lockdown savings effect by the magnitude stated above probably would have qualified for an exemption. Which is now gone, decreasing their buying power by 25%. So overall their buying power is down 23~24% in the example above.

That’s before we even get into, wage cuts, no bonuses, postponed salary increases. With so many cuts to people’s buying power, and a lot of buyers taken out of the market all together, I just don’t see how a small bit of cash in some peoples pockets will fight the tide. It might feel like a lot, but when you do the maths the argument does not stack up.

Wow, 19 likes, most liked comment on Property Market Thread?
What does it tell about readers on this Thread? And what this findings tells about Property Market?

Reversal

Marius34 wrote: »

Wow, 19 likes, most liked comment on Property Market Thread?
What does it tell about readers on this Thread? And what this findings tells about Property Market?

Perhaps that the average reader of the thread can see through the waffle that gets spun by the few here who have vested interests.

JimmyVik

Experience_day wrote: »

I would say that a fair few (and bearing in mind Ireland is a small place where it doesn't take a lot to make a meaningful percentage) have been able to save far more than that.

Take a colleague for example. Good salary granted but no longer has creche fees, commute fees, pub most days, lunches, dinners, breakfasts, coffees etc. I would genuinely say he's saving thousands a month.

And what I would also say it's doing is empowering a class of people that have never bothered to save......to save involuntarily. The ones that are now out of credit card debt for first time, maybe those who didn't think they could save for a house and now found themselves (even by your conservative estimates) 6k richer. Doesn't take a lot to extrapolate a few people that now see it as something attainable.

For myself, I've saved nearly my entire paycheck since March on top of my modest savings. It means I have a fair substantial deposit now and I'm genuinely considering buying another house.

Something I wouldn't have considered even a few months ago....

I think you are bang on here.



Just for myself I am saving a substantial sum even though I didnt realize it.
Put that together with several expensive holidays that I had booked and will not be going on this summer or this year. And several expensive Ryanair bookings to get back and I think im about €12k better off. Add money I would have been spending on all those trips and thats a nice sum.
Also money coming back from medical insurance and other things. No travel insurance to pay out. The car has been sitting for a few months. I just let the



True it might be an idea to go buy a house before the job losses/ wage cuts etc kick in, after which it may be impossible. Very hard choice I think.

JimmyVik

snoopboggybog wrote: »

People think Dublin wages are fantastic in I.T when there not really.

If your a very good developer or top of your field yes the money can be crazy which only a handful of people are.

If your middling your looking at 45K to 65K.

Anything else probably 25 to 45K depending where you end up.

Nobody with more than say 3 to 4 years experience is on less than 80K in my company in Dublin. And we still lose a fair few to companies paying them more. I actually want to go myself but im too cushy at this stage. All young enough and potential house buyers too.

errlloyd

Since mid-March I have saved around 6.5k - probably more than double what I would have hoped to save in that time. I've been pretty fortunate to keep my job, but I am still paying full rent etc.

I am bad at saving normally, but I think my behavior will change after lockdown. For the type of place I am looking I presume the competition may well have gone up as a result of lockdown.

makeorbrake

pearcider wrote: »

Well you can certainly make the charts say whatever you like. The fact is there are BTC investors out there sitting on a 50% loss right now. Some lost 30% overnight.

Bringing this back to the context of property, I bought my house in 2005. Fifteen years later, it is still 40% under water in terms of the price/value of the property.

Marius34

Reversal wrote: »

Perhaps that the average reader of the thread can see through the waffle that gets spun by the few here who have vested interests.

Anyone who don't see major price fall have vested interest, or who are they?
Well you are the one, coming with Bias information just trying to pick up any negative points on property price. Which is ok, it's common withing people selectively pick up only negative or positive information.
But what its not nice, that just few months ago you was telling about obvious significant price fall in Pre-Covid times. And even now, that most of Pre-Covid market sales completed, you still would not recognize that price was not falling back than.
We don't know yet well the impact of the Covid. But it's weird to not see the case of the past on Property Market, that there were no real price fall in Ireland in Pre-Covid.