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Staff directing traffic - shopping centres

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    #32
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Username you choose wrote: »
    Sorry, just to clarify, I'm not complaining because I didn't crash, I was instructed to exit by the staff member and the staff member was not paying attention or other driver ignored him. My question was/is do the staff that direct traffic (other than Gardai) have the legal authority to stop you entering and exiting.

    Can the owner of private property stop you entering their property??? Do you really need to even ask this question.


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    #33
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,744 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    GarIT wrote: »
    Yeah I get that. Everyone has to make a living. But he is calling the drivers assholes when in legal terms he is the one in the wrong.

    Have you considered they are arseholes.


    And why is every second discussion about how legal something is.


    It's getting like the United States here void of personal responsibility. And many posters in here are part of the problem


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    #34
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    listermint wrote: »
    Have you considered they are arseholes.


    And why is every second discussion about how legal something is.


    It's getting like the United States here void of personal responsibility. And many posters in here are part of the problem


    Maybe we have discussions about the legal perspective on things because people want to follow the law, or because they want others to follow the law.


    How do you take personal responsibility in this situation in your opinion. Go the route that is typically more convenient and break the law and go along with the person directing traffic or refuse to break the law and ignore the person trying to direct traffic?


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    #35
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,744 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    GarIT wrote: »
    Maybe we have discussions about the legal perspective on things because people want to follow the law, or because they want others to follow the law.


    How do you take personal responsibility in this situation in your opinion. Go the route that is typically more convenient and break the law and go along with the person directing traffic or refuse to break the law and ignore the person trying to direct traffic?

    Common sense.

    But I've found its not that common, frankly.


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    #36
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    Inside on a private car park...
    gordongekko wrote: »
    Can the owner of private property stop you entering their property??? Do you really need to even ask this question.

    An owner of private property stopping you entering their property is not comparable to staff directing traffic in a public place, even though the road is private it is still a public place and it is specifically a criminal offence to obstruct traffic in a public place without lawful authority.


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    #37
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    GM228 wrote: »
    An owner of private property stopping you entering their property is not comparable to staff directing traffic in a public place, even though the road is private it is still a public place and it is specifically a criminal offence to obstruct traffic in a public place without lawful authority.

    Even more interesting: a criminal offence. So if employer A instructs employee B to direct traffic without lawful authority .... it’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas!


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    #38
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    KWAG2019 wrote: »
    Even more interesting: a criminal offence. So if employer A instructs employee B to direct traffic without lawful authority .... it’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas!

    But it's the poor employee B committing the offence, not employer A.


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    #39
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    GM228 wrote: »
    But it's the poor employee B committing the offence, not employer A.

    “I refused to carry out the instruction and told the employer he was instructing me to carry out a crime. I was then fired/ disciplined etc” Oh yes


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    #40
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Don't forget however, perhaps the SC actually does have authorisation from AGS for traffic management during times of traffic congestion.


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    #41
    peteb2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭peteb2


    punisher5112 wrote:
    Inside on a private car park...


    Nope. I've been to court on other reasons regarding the definition of a private place v public place. It's not simple. It's about access.


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    #42
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    peteb2 wrote: »
    Nope. I've been to court on other reasons regarding the definition of a private place v public place. It's not simple. It's about access.

    More specifically in relation to road traffic laws it's not just about access, it's qualified (obviously) in that it's access with vehicles.


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    #43
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,777 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    peteb2 wrote: »
    Nope. I've been to court on other reasons regarding the definition of a private place v public place. It's not simple. It's about access.


    Correct. Croke Park for example, private yet public have access.


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    #44
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    GM228 wrote: »
    Don't forget however, perhaps the SC actually does have authorisation from AGS for traffic management during times of traffic congestion.

    I think any reputable SC should have. Be a good idea to post that info re hi vis onto Facebook or Twitter account of major SCs.


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    #45
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    peteb2 wrote: »
    Nope. I've been to court on other reasons regarding the definition of a private place v public place. It's not simple. It's about access.

    Got off on that one, traffic cop didn't state I was stopped on public or private;-)


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    #46
    Whocare
    Registered Users Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭Whocare


    People in charge of livestock have the authority to Direct a stop car legally


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    #47
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    Whocare wrote: »
    People in charge of livestock have the authority to Direct a stop car legally

    So all our hi vis friends need is two suck calves on a length of rope and bobs your uncle!


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    #48
    Odyssey 2005
    Registered Users Posts: 21,065 ✭✭✭✭Odyssey 2005


    Username you choose wrote: »
    With all due respect, the reason I didn't crash was because I was paying attention. Regards complaining about the staff? I actually think they are needed especially at this time if year, people are too quick to get outraged and find something that's not there.

    Why did you have to brake hard in a shopping centre carpark if you were paying attention ?


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Odyssey 2005 wrote: »
    Why did you have to brake hard in a shopping centre carpark if you were paying attention ?

    Because a car unexpectedly drove out under them that should have been stopped. Did you not read what happened?


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    #50
    fenris
    Registered Users Posts: 3,078 ✭✭✭fenris


    listermint wrote: »
    And why is every second discussion about how legal something is.

    The clue may be in the name of this forum 🙂

    In fairness as a driver you should know who has thr authority to direct your movement in traffic, especially when you are being directed to carry out an action that contravenes the road traffic act. Hi Viz vest confers no authority, nor does the arguement that my boss told me to do it, they are not going to shield you from penalty points or worse.


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    #51
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    Whocare wrote: »
    People in charge of livestock have the authority to Direct a stop car legally

    They don't, they used to but the appropriate legislation was revoked 22 years ago.


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    #52
    Username you choose
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Username you choose


    Odyssey 2005 wrote: »
    Why did you have to brake hard in a shopping centre carpark if you were paying attention ?

    I was waved out (exiting) carpark by as traffic hi vis person, he didn't see a car coming from behind him but I did hence me braking hard. What part of that is difficult to comprehend? And say I did crash into that car or give versa, could I then blame the hi vis person? (as they waved me out)


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    #53
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,215 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    GM228 wrote: »
    They don't, they used to but the appropriate legislation was revoked 22 years ago.

    I realise the rules of the road are not legislation but they do say
    Animal traffic

    Always slow down and be prepared to stop when approaching or overtaking animals. If a person in charge of animals gives a signal to slow down or stop, you must obey it. Avoid using your horn if animals are in front of you, as it might frighten them.


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    #54
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    I realise the rules of the road are not legislation but they do say

    Nail on head in bold.

    If used to be the case years ago, RSA copy and paste no doubt.

    A driver must where appropriate stop when meeting or overtaking animals, but, the law affords no lawful authority for the person controlling the animals to stop traffic.


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    #55
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Heckler wrote: »
    Legal or not they are there to help at a very busy time of the year for shops.

    Just don't blindly follow their instruction. Be as mindful as you would usually be.


    Good sensible advice. Proceed with caution..


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    #56
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    The Garda used to do the direction in Blanch. Which obviously isn't ideal use of their resources. So it's not impossible they arranged a civilian replacement..

    Regardless who does it, It doesn't help that much. I'm not convinced it doesn't make it worse. But perhaps the road layout is so bad, there's no fixing it.


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    #57
    fishy_fishy
    Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭fishy_fishy


    beauf wrote: »
    The Garda used to do the direction in Blanch. Which obviously isn't ideal use of their resources. So it's not impossible they arranged a civilian replacement..

    Regardless who does it, It doesn't help that much. I'm not convinced it doesn't make it worse. But perhaps the road layout is so bad, there's no fixing it.

    I'm absolutely convinced that all this traffic direction makes matters a lot worse. It's like traffic lights on roundabouts - take it away and things start flowing again.


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    #58
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    I presume fire brigade staff would as a matter of fact be approved to direct traffic.

    Recently saw an incident where traffic was insane and a number of fire brigade tenders were unable to move (despite full sirens).

    A number of fire brigade persons got out of the water tender to direct traffic.


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