Neil Francis and clearing out "Dead Wood".

Mysterypunter

He was a lazy player, so no surprise that he is half arsed as a pundit. Bit of a spoofer

Sportsmad5

Funny to read in the same paper an article from Des berry saying last weekend Ireland's most criticised player showed just how immense he can be- yes Jean Kleyn. He went into many of those tackles, it was the big players, the Vunipola's that he stopped on his own.

Granny15

Stonyjim wrote: »

You can try to define the conversation on your terms all you want and make attempts at looking forensic by throwing in red herrings about the positions the players we spoke about play in etc but this is all irrelevant. Francis treats players who play for Leinster and play for other Provences completely differenly.

So rather than quotes look at the amount of his copy where abuses players that were not born here. He treats players who happen to qualify for Ireland through residency differently to those born here. If this was another part of life other than sport I know what he would be called.

He has used his column to single out particular players who who qualify for Ireland through residency and are not Irish by birth. If you are happy to defend this behaviour then I would say rather than rushing to retort to me you should consider what this says about your own view of what is acceptable behaviour.

He is equally condescending to players from Leinster as he is to players from other provinces. He made a career out of slagging Leinster players as specifically “Ladyboys” during O ‘Driscoll years and they had several public spats over it

Stonyjim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If he does then provide the quotes?


I rarely read Franno as I know he is a click bait journo. You seem to so provide the quotes?


If you are going to accuse Franno of racism and then try to accuse me at least provide one quote to back it up!!!



If you want to go down that route, go to Luke, he has f**king loads

If you don't read the man's stuff then what the hell motivated you give you expert opinion on something you don't even read ? You literally offered your opinion on something you admited to not even reading and on turn means you know nothing about.
Fair play to you for the hubris.

brinty

Multiple non Irish born players are/we're cornerstones of our team for years...

O'Gara born in the US
Heaslip born in Israel
Carbery raised in New Zealand

You never hear Francis talk about that...


Francis had a huge issue with non Irish born players on NIQ and don't wear the blue of Leinster.

For the last number of years he bashed Roux and the last six months it's Kleyn. Before that it was Payne and Stander. Claims we're they're taking up spots of Irish born and bred players yet he ignores Scott Fardy at Leinster who'll never be Irish taking wages out of the pockets of the IRFU or Richard Strauss, James Lowe, Joe Tomane and Jameis Gibson Park who are/were all NIQ. The biased and one sided nature of his columns is at best sickening and at worse sheer bigotry.

As one poster said he's in the realms of Stephen Jones, controversial for the sake of it and at best ignored.

No point talking about it on an anonymous forum as you'll be shouted down in the most part.

On today's article he named Leinsters fourth choice out half Frawley as deserving a call up as everyone else had a chance so why not him. The guy I don't believe has played Heineken cup but he should be ahead of Hanrahan/ Burns/ Carty .... Hmmmmmm blue tinted glasses

He also claimed we've maybe 14-16 world cup standard players. I'd love to know who they are and how many are of non Leinster origin...

Stonyjim

brinty wrote: »

Multiple non Irish born players are/we're cornerstones of our team for years...

O'Gara born in the US
Heaslip born in Israel
Carbery raised in New Zealand

You never hear Francis talk about that...


Francis had a huge issue with non Irish born players on NIQ and don't wear the blue of Leinster.

For the last number of years he bashed Roux and the last six months it's Kleyn. Before that it was Payne and Stander. Claims we're they're taking up spots of Irish born and bred players yet he ignores Scott Fardy at Leinster who'll never be Irish taking wages out of the pockets of the IRFU or Richard Strauss, James Lowe, Joe Tomane and Jameis Gibson Park who are/were all NIQ. The biased and one sided nature of his columns is at best sickening and at worse sheer bigotry.

As one poster said he's in the realms of Stephen Jones, controversial for the sake of it and at best ignored.

No point talking about it on an anonymous forum as you'll be shouted down in the most part.

On today's article he named Leinsters fourth choice out half Frawley as deserving a call up as everyone else had a chance so why not him. The guy I don't believe has played Heineken cup but he should be ahead of Hanrahan/ Burns/ Carty .... Hmmmmmm blue tinted glasses

He also claimed we've maybe 14-16 world cup standard players. I'd love to know who they are and how many are of non Leinster origin...

You are correct but he has free reign and sadly influence on the casual observer. He need to be called out as do those who publish his prejudice ridden stuff.

Kevski

Stonyjim wrote: »

You are correct but he has free reign and sadly influence on the casual observer. He need to be called out as do those who publish his prejudice ridden stuff.

If he needs to be called out then by all means go ahead and get in touch with the Irish Independent tomorrow and make your feelings known.

Otherwise, maybe you’re better off to just ignore his pieces if they bother you so much that you feel the need to go moaning about them to people who have no influence over them.

Heres Johnny

To the OP.... Please understand modern journalism. It's about clicks into Web addresses and what you have done, is draw attention to the article with your snowflake outrage that is like fuel to them, I bet that article has got many hits now because of this thread. He laid the trap and you walked right into it.

Serious question, are you really as angry about an article as you appear to be?
If so, jeez, you better lighten up and toughen up.

Stonyjim

Heres Johnny wrote: »

To the OP.... Please understand modern journalism. It's about clicks into Web addresses and what you have done, is draw attention to the article with your snowflake outrage that is like fuel to them, I bet that article has got many hits now because of this thread. He laid the trap and you walked right into it.

Serious question, are you really as angry about an article as you appear to be?
If so, jeez, you better lighten up and toughen up.

Do you have any interest in the topic at hand or just that you felt the urge to get involved ????

Clegg

Don't have much time for Francis. He's a sensationalist who throws our awful sh1te for clicks.

He did however, get his analysis on Kane Douglas dead right from day 1. He was an absolute work shy spoofer of a lock and Franno called him out almost immediately.

Stonyjim

Clegg wrote: »

Don't have much time for Francis. He's a sensationalist who throws our awful sh1te for clicks.

He did however, get his analysis on Kane Douglas dead right from day 1. He was an absolute work shy spoofer of a lock and Franno called him out almost immediately.

Stoped click is right twice per day. Be bad form if a professional rugby writer did not get something right once in 20 years.. Even Hook was right the odd time same with Stephen Jones.

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

If you don't read the man's stuff then what the hell motivated you give you expert opinion on something you don't even read ? You literally offered your opinion on something you admited to not even reading and on turn means you know nothing about.
Fair play to you for the hubris.

You posted about one article.....even wrote it in title of thread.....

Now it’s not this article but others? If so provide links to those articles? Also might be worth changing the title of thread to say it’s just a general rant about Franno

joseywhales

He is the epitome of his generation of Irish and specifically Leinster rugby player. Entitled, no discipline, no balls when it was put up to him, full of excuses, moral victories and now xenophobia and lazy insightful journalism. No courage as a player or a journalist.

And I support Leinster and Ireland.

Heres Johnny

Stonyjim wrote: »

Do you have any interest in the topic at hand or just that you felt the urge to get involved ????

Well I had read the article before I saw this thread and I do read all his articles. Some points I agree with, others I don't but he's always sensationalist no matter what points he's making. It's his style and it's the way journalism has gone, even in once reputable national publications. I don't get people getting so worked up about them, which you seem to be. They are opinion pieces and there's loads of them in newspapers across different topics.

I'm a big rugby supporter, not of leinster particularly but will support all Irish teams. Francis has berated players I like in the past, teams I like in the past and people I like in the past. I don't have to agree with him but I just read them and move on. He hasn't personally offended me and I don't think I've a right to be offended by someone's opinion, he has a right to his opinion. I don't think he even believes what he writes to be true all the time, but that's just back to the fact the gutter press has taken over.

The question I asked is are you really as offended by it as it seems? You sound angry and I can't get my head around why. All you are achieving is spreading his article which was the aim of it in the first place.

Buer

joseywhales wrote: »

He is the epitome of his generation of Irish and specifically Leinster rugby player. Entitled, no discipline, no balls when it was put up to him

Yeah, I hate those lazy generalisations too.

stephen_n

It’s hard to believe that at this stage anyone can take what Franno says seriously. Any decent points he makes (I’m sure there must be some), get completely lost in a swirling sea of BS and contrived controversy. Yet like McKenna, time and again he gets a response that keeps him relevant.

sydthebeat

Lads, this is a guy who said that gay men are more interested in ballet and hair dressing than sport...

Nuff said about what kind of journalist he is.

aloooof

I don't understand why anyone would read Neil Francis when there are plenty of quality irish rugby journalists out there.

awec

Has Leinster ever produced a decent journalist?

aloooof

awec wrote: »

Has Leinster ever produced a decent journalist?

Too many NIQ journalists like Matt Williams blocking their progression.

The Nal

sydthebeat wrote: »

Lads, this is a guy who said that gay men are more interested in ballet and hair dressing than sport...

Hes done a lot more than that

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Neil_Francis_(rugby_union)&oldid=605470235

MarinersBlues

aloooof wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would read Neil Francis when there are plenty of quality irish rugby journalists out there.

I wouldn't read him for any amount of money.
It's very frustrating to see him trotted out with some other lazy ex-player-turned-pundits on national broadcasters.

There are at least 10 well informed young journalists who deserve that kind of exposure more.

Zzippy

Anyone else think Neil Francis should be cleared out with some dead wood?






A baseball bat is dead wood, right?

mfceiling

The Nal wrote: »

Hes done a lot more than that

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Neil_Francis_(rugby_union)&oldid=605470235

Well the tears are running down my cheeks laughing at that!! Exactly what is needed at this moment in time. What a man.

Former Former

aloooof wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would read Neil Francis when there are plenty of quality irish rugby journalists out there.

Because internet.

In times gone by, reading Neil Francis meant going out and buying the Indo. You had to actually seek it out which obviously you wouldn't do if you didn't like the content, so you'd be blissfully unaware of most of it.

Now, people like the OP don't think "oh, it's Monday, I must see what Neil Francis' column is about", they just see whatever flashes up in their Twitter feed because that's how the media works now. And he clicks, and he gets angry, and he retweets, and his mates see it and they click and round and round we go.

People say "oh Francis is just writing clickbait". No, he's not. He's been writing the same sort of thing for 20 years, since before clickbait was a thing. What's changed is that people have lost the ability to distinguish opinion pieces from news from blogs from paid placements. They don't pay for content so they don't value content so they don't discriminate about what they read. People like the OP are the problem, not Neil Francis.

Imagine 20 years ago, your granny was complaining about seeing a big pair of tits in the paper. You'd say, well granny, you bought The Sun and you flicked to page 3, what did you expect? Should there be a topless lady there, probably not, but your granny should know better. That's basically the situation the OP is in. An old lady looking at a pair of tits.

joseywhales

Buer wrote: »

Yeah, I hate those lazy generalisations too.

Sure at least you didn't have to pay to read it.

stephen_n

Former Former wrote: »

Because internet.

In times gone by, reading Neil Francis meant going out and buying the Indo. You had to actually seek it out which obviously you wouldn't do if you didn't like the content, so you'd be blissfully unaware of most of it.

Now, people like the OP don't think "oh, it's Monday, I must see what Neil Francis' column is about", they just see whatever flashes up in their Twitter feed because that's how the media works now. And he clicks, and he gets angry, and he retweets, and his mates see it and they click and round and round we go.

People say "oh Francis is just writing clickbait". No, he's not. He's been writing the same sort of thing for 20 years, since before clickbait was a thing. What's changed is that people have lost the ability to distinguish opinion pieces from news from blogs from paid placements. They don't pay for content so they don't value content so they don't discriminate about what they read. People like the OP are the problem, not Neil Francis.

Imagine 20 years ago, your granny was complaining about seeing a big pair of tits in the paper. You'd say, well granny, you bought The Sun and you flicked to page 3, what did you expect? Should there be a topless lady there, probably not, but your granny should know better. That's basically the situation the OP is in. An old lady looking at a pair of tits.

Well they’re more moons in Franno’s case I’d say.

evil_seed

Heres Johnny wrote: »

To the OP.... Please understand modern journalism. It's about clicks into Web addresses and what you have done, is draw attention to the article with your snowflake outrage that is like fuel to them, I bet that article has got many hits now because of this thread. He laid the trap and you walked right into it.

Serious question, are you really as angry about an article as you appear to be?
If so, jeez, you better lighten up and toughen up.

Modern journalism may be about all that, but Franno isn't a modern journalist. He's been trolling in the papers before trolling was even a term.

He's a lazy, backways thinking "analyst"/"journalist" that is stealing a living based on the fact he's gotten a handful of caps for Ireland

jacothelad

sydthebeat wrote: »

Lads, this is a guy who said that gay men are more interested in ballet and hair dressing than sport...

Nuff said about what kind of journalist he is.

Yes, you never see a Gay man down the gym......:D

jacothelad

awec wrote: »

Has Leinster ever produced a decent journalist?

Edmund Van Esbeck