Neil Francis and clearing out "Dead Wood".

Stonyjim

Neil Francis is like Irelands own (poor man's) Jeremy Clarkson. Is it indicative of the general lack of any knowledge of rugby in the population that he is perpetually let away with the rubbish he puts out for the Indo ? His piece today is an encapsulation of his trademark guff.. Abuse and criticism for non Leinster players and especially players who play for Ireland who are originally from South Africa etc. These naturalised players are of course worse creatures if they play for an Irish team other than Leinster. Then he calls for a plethora of Leinster players, including some with zero topclass rugby experience to be called up to Ireland at the expense of players from other Provences.
Never any call for the removal of Leinster players who are past it and that should have been droped years ago like Kearney, who is finally getting the door years after been past it. Leinster are a great team and of course have the massive advantage of a huge population and access to big sponsorship money but they are still not capable of making up an Irish 15 without input from other Provences. This seems to be lost on Neil who is about as good as a journalist as he was a player. A few rugby writers in national media who are not just Leinster fans making a case for their local players but instead are offering proper analysis would be most welcome.

Is he standing down himself?

Noble.

Shefwedfan

All I can say is at least Franno knows what a paragraph is :-)

Stonyjim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

All I can say is at least Franno knows what a paragraph is :-)

Who are you ? The ****ing ghost of Aengus Fanning ?

MarinersBlues

He is literally stealing a living.
He spent 10 minutes on the last word recently "analysing" Connacht vs Montpellier, using that match of an example of why Blade isn't in the running for a spot in the Irish squad. To wrap up he admitted he hadn't watched the game.

He had 2 full days to watch a recording of it.
He is a theif.

Drifter50

Stonyjim wrote: »

Neil Francis is like Irelands own (poor man's) Jeremy Clarkson. Is it indicative of the general lack of any knowledge of rugby in the population that he is perpetually let away with the rubbish he puts out for the Indo ? His piece today is an encapsulation of his trademark guff.. Abuse and criticism for non Leinster players and especially players who play for Ireland who are originally from South Africa etc. These naturalised players are of course worse creatures if they play for a Irish team other than Leinster. Then call for a plethora of Leinster players some of which have zero topclass experience to be called up to Ireland at the expense of players from other Provences. Never any call for the removal of Leinster players who are past it and that should have been droped years ago like Kearney , who is finally getting the door years after been past it. Leinster are a great team and of course have the massive advantage of population and money but they are still not capable of making up an Irish 15. This seems to be lost on Neil who is about as good as a journalist as he was a player. A few rugby writers in national media who are not Leinster fans making a case for their players rather than offering proper analysis would be most welcome.

Ah that`s a tad harsh. He does provide an alternative slant on things which is may be not to everyone`s liking but if journalism was full of Yes men who were happy to take whatever was told to them in press briefings and regurgutate it for their particular broadsheet / red top / magazine / digital media then life would be boring in the extreme.
Gerry Thornley can be a bit unpalatable too but hey it makes the general coverage more interesting

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

Who are you ? The ****ing ghost of Aengus Fanning ?

I’m ROB KEARNEY

Who are you?

Shefwedfan

MarinersBlues wrote: »

He is literally stealing a living.
He spent 10 minutes on the last word recently "analysing" Connacht vs Montpellier, using that match of an example of why Blade isn't in the running for a spot in the Irish squad. To wrap up he admitted he hadn't watched the game.

He had 2 full days to watch a recording of it.
He is a theif.

Ahh poor old Franno

Between pi**ing off NZ people and now the state of Connacht he really is having a run of it

He is paid to get clicks, same as the Jones lad in Wales, he gets clicks and lots of them. He advertisers love that

To me, Let him off....I was standing in queue at shop this morning and just seen the Indo and it was on front page, I had a little chuckle and actually was interested in reading it but feck paying money for that paper

Haah

Granny15

Neil Francis evokes a hatred of supporters most of them key board warriors who don’t agree with his analysis. He is a rugby man and knows the game and what he is talking about. He sometimes gets it wrong (every journalist does) but the abuse he gets is unwarranted by people who tout their own players and don’t hold themselves to the same standards of posting on rugby. Bitter little men who have never been told off by a coach in the way Franno does. He’s like a blunt head coach and I like his style

Stonyjim

Leinster man yourself ?????

Granny15 wrote: »

Neil Francis evokes a hatred of supporters most of them key board warriors who don’t agree with his analysis. He is a rugby man and knows the game and what he is talking about. He sometimes gets it wrong (every journalist does) but the abuse he gets is unwarranted by people who tout their own players and don’t hold themselves to the same standards of posting on rugby. Bitter little men who have never been told off by a coach in the way Franno does. He’s like a blunt head coach and I like his style

Donnielighto

Always seems to have spit going from top to bottom lip

Stonyjim

MarinersBlues wrote: »

He is literally stealing a living.
He spent 10 minutes on the last word recently "analysing" Connacht vs Montpellier, using that match of an example of why Blade isn't in the running for a spot in the Irish squad. To wrap up he admitted he hadn't watched the game.

He had 2 full days to watch a recording of it.
He is a theif.

His abuse of the Project players is verging on something very nasty. Bet he won't give James Lowe the same stick as some of the other lads at the other Provences when he gets capped though.

Granny15

Stonyjim wrote: »

His abuse of the Project players is verging on something very nasty. Bet he won't give James Lowe the same stick as some of the other lads at the other Provences when he gets capped though.

Not as nasty as some of the comments from regular internet posters on this site and others about players like Joe Tomane. The hatred that comes from anonymous posters towards project behavior players is plain racism and trumps anything Franno comes out with about “protectionism” of Irish players

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

His abuse of the Project players is verging on something very nasty. Bet he won't give James Lowe the same stick as some of the other lads at the other Provences when he gets capped though.

For the crack I read the article......

He had a pop at Kelleher. He plays for Leinster


If your talking about Kleyn, he is making a fairly valid point. Copied below. We now have to compare ourselves against England as they are second best team in World. Kruis and Idjoe, can we match them?

I watched the Munster v Saracens game at the Allianz and Kleyn did have his moments - a couple of big hits - but he made 11 tackles all day and was then substituted. His unheralded second-row partner Billy Holland made 21 tackles and then the international standard was set by George Kruis who made 25 tackles, carried the ball all day long, cleared twice as many rucks as Kleyn and the difference between the two in terms of quality and work-rate was just embarrassing.

To me I have seen a lot worse articles so I don't see whats the big deal

he picked out a couple of young players and says why dont you pick them because you have already tried the rest and they are not good enough.

I think you would find a lot of posts on here after the semi final which said something fairly similar


I do think he didnt need to refer to them as Saffers as that kind of stick out and hides his point

Stonyjim

Granny15 wrote: »

Not as nasty as some of the comments from regular internet posters on this site and others about players like Joe Tomane. The hatred that comes from anonymous posters towards project behavior players is plain racism and trumps anything Franno comes out with about “protectionism” of Irish players

You are excusing his behaviour as a print journalist in a national newspaper by comparing it to internet trolls on order to make it look more acceptable ? I hope you are not a lawyer or I bet you would be making a lot of visits to your clients in prison.

Stonyjim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For the crack I read the article......

He had a pop at Kelleher. He plays for Leinster


If your talking about Kleyn, he is making a fairly valid point. Copied below. We now have to compare ourselves against England as they are second best team in World. Kruis and Idjoe, can we match them?






To me I have seen a lot worse articles so I don't see whats the big deal

he picked out a couple of young players and says why dont you pick them because you have already tried the rest and they are not good enough.

I think you would find a lot of posts on here after the semi final which said something fairly similar


I do think he didnt need to refer to them as Saffers as that kind of stick out and hides his point

Kelleher as he had been brilliant. The only player he cited that anyone outside Dublin heard off. He has used his position to constantly knock players from other teams and make a case Leinster players to be included for Ireland. Like McGrath a perfect case as he knocked Marmion at every opertunity even though he is a better player. Who went to Japan ? Not saying it was his input but these things add up.

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

You are excusing his behaviour as a print journalist in a national newspaper by comparing it to internet trolls on order to make it look more acceptable ? I hope you are not a lawyer or I bet you would be making a lot of visits to your clients in prison.

Please quote these unacceptable comments he has made about project players?

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

Kelleher as he had been brilliant. The only player he cited that anyone outside Dublin heard off. He has used his position to constantly knock players from other teams and make a case Leinster players to be included for Ireland. Like McGrath a perfect case as he knocked Marmion at every opertunity even though he is a better player. Who went to Japan ? Not saying it was his input but these things add up.

Tin foil hat time now

Former Former

This thread is far worse than anything Neil Francis has ever put out.

Stonyjim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Please quote these unacceptable comments he has made about project players?

It's goes beyond spefic comments. It is the way he uses his position. The specific way he has attached and singled out Quinn Roux for instance. I can't recall a player as bad for Ireland as Ross Byrne was against England was in the warm ups yet he goes not get the same persistent abuse as Roux.

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

It's goes beyond spefic comments. It is the way he uses his position. The specific way he has attached and singled out Quinn Roux for instance. I can't recall a player as bad for Ireland as Ross Byrne was against England was in the warm ups yet he goes not get the same persistent abuse as Roux.

Unfortunately I think the problem might be more with yourself and Leinster players than with Franno and non Leinster players

Stonyjim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Unfortunately I think the problem might be more with yourself and Leinster players than with Franno and non Leinster players

If you are not capable of making an argument about the point in question and have to resort to ad hominem attack then that says all I guess.

Donnielighto

Stonyjim wrote: »

If you are not capable of making an argument about the point in question and have to resort to ad hominem attack then that says all I guess.

Is his ad hominem not the same as yours?

Tbh I agree Francis is a biased arse but still.

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

If you are not capable of making an argument about the point in question and have to resort to ad hominem attack then that says all I guess.

The basis of your argument is Franno has said awful things about NIQ. When asked to quote these you instead you make reference to Ross Byrne??



I can't make an argument about comments I have never seen

Stonyjim

Donnielighto wrote: »

Is his ad hominem not the same as yours?

Tbh I agree Francis is a biased arse but still.

My point was that Francis had singled out a particular player for abuse that is Quinn Roux and he has devoted a lot of his colume to attacking that player. The player happened not to be born in Ireland. I said other players who happened to be born here and who performed worse than Roux on at least one occasion - yet Francis did not give that same treatment using his privileged position to attack the player from his club. The other poster reverted to accusing me of just having a problem with Leinster players which is just not the case. So no it is not the same thing in any way I am afraid.

Stonyjim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

The basis of your argument is Franno has said awful things about NIQ. When asked to quote these you instead you make reference to Ross Byrne??



I can't make an argument about comments I have never seen

Have the same problem with Francis devoting a massive amount of his writing over the last couple of years to attack Quinn Roux and others as my criticism of Byrne ? This is a national newspaper journalist who uses his position to abuse players who strangely are from other countries originally.

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

Have the same problem with Francis devoting a massive amount of his writing over the last couple of years to attack Quinn Roux and others as my criticism of Byrne ? This is a national newspaper journalist who uses his position to abuse players who strangely are from other countries originally.

Quinn Roux is question by a number of people, not just Franno, in terms of his ability to play at international level. Most comments would go Quinn Roux, he is one of Joe's favorites etc


I have no idea why you reference Byrne at all, he doesnt play second row, plus you are talking about a preseason friendly match when the whole team was diabolical. Carter could have played 10 that day and he would have been awful.



I am no fan of Franno but I am just not getting your point on this specific article.



Now if you want to refer or quote another article then we can discuss that. Just because you dont like what he says doesnt mean you can accuse him of some sort of racism

Granny15

Stonyjim wrote: »

Have the same problem with Francis devoting a massive amount of his writing over the last couple of years to attack Quinn Roux and others as my criticism of Byrne ? This is a national newspaper journalist who uses his position to abuse players who strangely are from other countries originally.

Luke Fitzgerald has the same gripe with non Irish born players. I would say it is some form of protectionism coming from a place that wants the Irish system to serve Irish players and not foreign players. It is a point of view that originated back in the 80’s with venerable right wingers like Michael mcdowell but I fear it goes back further to the protectionist days of De Veleras Ireland.

I tend to disagree with that bias but it isn’t borne out of a hatred like some people can show on internet sites.

His style is blunt to the point and ruthless towards players. He played at the highest levels in the game and I like his take on rugby matters even if I do not agree with everything.

If Neil Francis was a jeopardy question it would be 'people not to take too seriously for 200 please Alex'.

That's all you need to know about Neil Francis articles.

Stonyjim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Quinn Roux is question by a number of people, not just Franno, in terms of his ability to play at international level. Most comments would go Quinn Roux, he is one of Joe's favorites etc


I have no idea why you reference Byrne at all, he doesnt play second row, plus you are talking about a preseason friendly match when the whole team was diabolical. Carter could have played 10 that day and he would have been awful.



I am no fan of Franno but I am just not getting your point on this specific article.



Now if you want to refer or quote another article then we can discuss that. Just because you dont like what he says doesnt mean you can accuse him of some sort of racism

You can try to define the conversation on your terms all you want and make attempts at looking forensic by throwing in red herrings about the positions the players we spoke about play in etc but this is all irrelevant. Francis treats players who play for Leinster and play for other Provences completely differenly.

So rather than quotes look at the amount of his copy where abuses players that were not born here. He treats players who happen to qualify for Ireland through residency differently to those born here. If this was another part of life other than sport I know what he would be called.

He has used his column to single out particular players who who qualify for Ireland through residency and are not Irish by birth. If you are happy to defend this behaviour then I would say rather than rushing to retort to me you should consider what this says about your own view of what is acceptable behaviour.

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

You can try to define the conversation on your terms all you want and make attempts at looking forensic by throwing in red herrings about the positions the players we spoke about play in etc but this is all irrelevant. Francis treats players who play for Leinster and play for other Provences completely differenly.

So rather than quotes look at the amount of his copy where abuses players that were not born here. He treats players who happen to qualify for Ireland through residency differently to those born here. If this was another part of life other than sport I know what he would be called.

He has used his column to single out particular players who who qualify for Ireland through residency and are not Irish by birth. If you are happy to defend this behaviour then I would say rather than rushing to retort to me you should consider what this says about your own view of what is acceptable behaviour.

If he does then provide the quotes?


I rarely read Franno as I know he is a click bait journo. You seem to so provide the quotes?


If you are going to accuse Franno of racism and then try to accuse me at least provide one quote to back it up!!!



If you want to go down that route, go to Luke, he has f**king loads

Mysterypunter

He was a lazy player, so no surprise that he is half arsed as a pundit. Bit of a spoofer

Sportsmad5

Funny to read in the same paper an article from Des berry saying last weekend Ireland's most criticised player showed just how immense he can be- yes Jean Kleyn. He went into many of those tackles, it was the big players, the Vunipola's that he stopped on his own.

Granny15

Stonyjim wrote: »

You can try to define the conversation on your terms all you want and make attempts at looking forensic by throwing in red herrings about the positions the players we spoke about play in etc but this is all irrelevant. Francis treats players who play for Leinster and play for other Provences completely differenly.

So rather than quotes look at the amount of his copy where abuses players that were not born here. He treats players who happen to qualify for Ireland through residency differently to those born here. If this was another part of life other than sport I know what he would be called.

He has used his column to single out particular players who who qualify for Ireland through residency and are not Irish by birth. If you are happy to defend this behaviour then I would say rather than rushing to retort to me you should consider what this says about your own view of what is acceptable behaviour.

He is equally condescending to players from Leinster as he is to players from other provinces. He made a career out of slagging Leinster players as specifically “Ladyboys” during O ‘Driscoll years and they had several public spats over it

Stonyjim

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If he does then provide the quotes?


I rarely read Franno as I know he is a click bait journo. You seem to so provide the quotes?


If you are going to accuse Franno of racism and then try to accuse me at least provide one quote to back it up!!!



If you want to go down that route, go to Luke, he has f**king loads

If you don't read the man's stuff then what the hell motivated you give you expert opinion on something you don't even read ? You literally offered your opinion on something you admited to not even reading and on turn means you know nothing about.
Fair play to you for the hubris.

brinty

Multiple non Irish born players are/we're cornerstones of our team for years...

O'Gara born in the US
Heaslip born in Israel
Carbery raised in New Zealand

You never hear Francis talk about that...


Francis had a huge issue with non Irish born players on NIQ and don't wear the blue of Leinster.

For the last number of years he bashed Roux and the last six months it's Kleyn. Before that it was Payne and Stander. Claims we're they're taking up spots of Irish born and bred players yet he ignores Scott Fardy at Leinster who'll never be Irish taking wages out of the pockets of the IRFU or Richard Strauss, James Lowe, Joe Tomane and Jameis Gibson Park who are/were all NIQ. The biased and one sided nature of his columns is at best sickening and at worse sheer bigotry.

As one poster said he's in the realms of Stephen Jones, controversial for the sake of it and at best ignored.

No point talking about it on an anonymous forum as you'll be shouted down in the most part.

On today's article he named Leinsters fourth choice out half Frawley as deserving a call up as everyone else had a chance so why not him. The guy I don't believe has played Heineken cup but he should be ahead of Hanrahan/ Burns/ Carty .... Hmmmmmm blue tinted glasses

He also claimed we've maybe 14-16 world cup standard players. I'd love to know who they are and how many are of non Leinster origin...

Stonyjim

brinty wrote: »

Multiple non Irish born players are/we're cornerstones of our team for years...

O'Gara born in the US
Heaslip born in Israel
Carbery raised in New Zealand

You never hear Francis talk about that...


Francis had a huge issue with non Irish born players on NIQ and don't wear the blue of Leinster.

For the last number of years he bashed Roux and the last six months it's Kleyn. Before that it was Payne and Stander. Claims we're they're taking up spots of Irish born and bred players yet he ignores Scott Fardy at Leinster who'll never be Irish taking wages out of the pockets of the IRFU or Richard Strauss, James Lowe, Joe Tomane and Jameis Gibson Park who are/were all NIQ. The biased and one sided nature of his columns is at best sickening and at worse sheer bigotry.

As one poster said he's in the realms of Stephen Jones, controversial for the sake of it and at best ignored.

No point talking about it on an anonymous forum as you'll be shouted down in the most part.

On today's article he named Leinsters fourth choice out half Frawley as deserving a call up as everyone else had a chance so why not him. The guy I don't believe has played Heineken cup but he should be ahead of Hanrahan/ Burns/ Carty .... Hmmmmmm blue tinted glasses

He also claimed we've maybe 14-16 world cup standard players. I'd love to know who they are and how many are of non Leinster origin...

You are correct but he has free reign and sadly influence on the casual observer. He need to be called out as do those who publish his prejudice ridden stuff.

Kevski

Stonyjim wrote: »

You are correct but he has free reign and sadly influence on the casual observer. He need to be called out as do those who publish his prejudice ridden stuff.

If he needs to be called out then by all means go ahead and get in touch with the Irish Independent tomorrow and make your feelings known.

Otherwise, maybe you’re better off to just ignore his pieces if they bother you so much that you feel the need to go moaning about them to people who have no influence over them.

Heres Johnny

To the OP.... Please understand modern journalism. It's about clicks into Web addresses and what you have done, is draw attention to the article with your snowflake outrage that is like fuel to them, I bet that article has got many hits now because of this thread. He laid the trap and you walked right into it.

Serious question, are you really as angry about an article as you appear to be?
If so, jeez, you better lighten up and toughen up.

Stonyjim

Heres Johnny wrote: »

To the OP.... Please understand modern journalism. It's about clicks into Web addresses and what you have done, is draw attention to the article with your snowflake outrage that is like fuel to them, I bet that article has got many hits now because of this thread. He laid the trap and you walked right into it.

Serious question, are you really as angry about an article as you appear to be?
If so, jeez, you better lighten up and toughen up.

Do you have any interest in the topic at hand or just that you felt the urge to get involved ????

Clegg

Don't have much time for Francis. He's a sensationalist who throws our awful sh1te for clicks.

He did however, get his analysis on Kane Douglas dead right from day 1. He was an absolute work shy spoofer of a lock and Franno called him out almost immediately.

Stonyjim

Clegg wrote: »

Don't have much time for Francis. He's a sensationalist who throws our awful sh1te for clicks.

He did however, get his analysis on Kane Douglas dead right from day 1. He was an absolute work shy spoofer of a lock and Franno called him out almost immediately.

Stoped click is right twice per day. Be bad form if a professional rugby writer did not get something right once in 20 years.. Even Hook was right the odd time same with Stephen Jones.

Shefwedfan

Stonyjim wrote: »

If you don't read the man's stuff then what the hell motivated you give you expert opinion on something you don't even read ? You literally offered your opinion on something you admited to not even reading and on turn means you know nothing about.
Fair play to you for the hubris.

You posted about one article.....even wrote it in title of thread.....

Now it’s not this article but others? If so provide links to those articles? Also might be worth changing the title of thread to say it’s just a general rant about Franno

joseywhales

He is the epitome of his generation of Irish and specifically Leinster rugby player. Entitled, no discipline, no balls when it was put up to him, full of excuses, moral victories and now xenophobia and lazy insightful journalism. No courage as a player or a journalist.

And I support Leinster and Ireland.

Heres Johnny

Stonyjim wrote: »

Do you have any interest in the topic at hand or just that you felt the urge to get involved ????

Well I had read the article before I saw this thread and I do read all his articles. Some points I agree with, others I don't but he's always sensationalist no matter what points he's making. It's his style and it's the way journalism has gone, even in once reputable national publications. I don't get people getting so worked up about them, which you seem to be. They are opinion pieces and there's loads of them in newspapers across different topics.

I'm a big rugby supporter, not of leinster particularly but will support all Irish teams. Francis has berated players I like in the past, teams I like in the past and people I like in the past. I don't have to agree with him but I just read them and move on. He hasn't personally offended me and I don't think I've a right to be offended by someone's opinion, he has a right to his opinion. I don't think he even believes what he writes to be true all the time, but that's just back to the fact the gutter press has taken over.

The question I asked is are you really as offended by it as it seems? You sound angry and I can't get my head around why. All you are achieving is spreading his article which was the aim of it in the first place.

Buer

joseywhales wrote: »

He is the epitome of his generation of Irish and specifically Leinster rugby player. Entitled, no discipline, no balls when it was put up to him

Yeah, I hate those lazy generalisations too.

stephen_n

It’s hard to believe that at this stage anyone can take what Franno says seriously. Any decent points he makes (I’m sure there must be some), get completely lost in a swirling sea of BS and contrived controversy. Yet like McKenna, time and again he gets a response that keeps him relevant.

sydthebeat

Lads, this is a guy who said that gay men are more interested in ballet and hair dressing than sport...

Nuff said about what kind of journalist he is.

aloooof

I don't understand why anyone would read Neil Francis when there are plenty of quality irish rugby journalists out there.

awec

Has Leinster ever produced a decent journalist?

aloooof

awec wrote: »

Has Leinster ever produced a decent journalist?

Too many NIQ journalists like Matt Williams blocking their progression.