Help me choose a PHEV

irishgrover

Profile: 90% driving under 30km
Yearly mileage: < 12,000 miles
Budget: Up to 30k

Option 1: 2016/17 Merc C350e (~26k)

Option 2: 2017/2018 530e (~31k)

Option 3: 191/192 Nero (~30k)

NOTE: Other family car is Ioniq BEV

thanks :-)

Soarer

*subscribes to this thread*

Heroditas

Soarer wrote: »

*subscribes to this thread*

Me too! Upgrading the wife's car next year.

OP, I bought a 2nd hand c350e this year. Daily commute is approx 10km each way and can get to and from work on battery alone in the summer.
Absolutely lovely car to drive but not a great family car if you're bringing the whole clan away on summer holidays.
Perfect for everything else for me though such as the weekly shopping etc.

Edit: I was a bit restricted with my budget hence why I didn't go for the 530e

Kramer

Unless you need the practicality of a hatch i.e. the Niro, the only choice is the 530e. It's a saloon again though with a long but shallow boot. The folding rear seats are a necessity IMO. I'd be recommending an extended BMW warranty if buying a 2 or 3 year old model - mine has been flawless but is new.

Drove the Merc & far preferred the performance of the BMW.

Try to get an M-Sport model - looks great too.

User1998

Heroditas wrote: »

Daily commute is approx 10km each way and can get to and from work on battery alone in the summer.

Is 20km not achievable all year round?

wcooba

c350e is a typical compliance car. The usable battery capacity is 5kWh!

+1 for 530e which should do 30km on pure electric easily

ELM327

None of the above.
Outlander.

Kramer

ELM327 wrote: »

None of the above.
Outlander.

Have an old large Mitsubishi 4x4 & considered changing that for a new Outlander PHEV. After spending a weekend in the Outlander, I decided to keep my old Pajero Sport & get the 530e.

It boils down to whether the OP needs the space/practicality of a hatch (Niro) or heigh/carrying capacity/towing ability of an Outlander PHEV.
Maybe he wants to wallow in the executiveness of the 530e's refined cabin & enjoy the ultimate driver's car .

It's astounding how rudimentary & budget it feels when sitting into our Ioniq, after a few days in the 530e. It's night & day.

I like the Outlander & it has a lot going for it but the interior felt not too dissimilar to an almost decades old Pajero.

OP: you're welcome to have a look at my 530e - I'm between Limerick & Dublin regularly, if your local BMW dealer doesn't have one.

Soarer

Are there a newer/older versions of the 530e, upgrade in battery, etc.?
If so, when did that happen?

Kramer

Soarer wrote: »

Are there a newer/older versions of the 530e, upgrade in battery, etc.?
If so, when did that happen?

'17 to '19 have a 9.2kWh battery with 8kWh usable.
'20 onwards is upgraded to a 12kWh battery with 10.8kWh usable.

GreeBo

This has me interested
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/skoda-superb-plugin-option-makes-saloon-more-sensible-still-1.4103114

But looks like its starting from €40K so outside of budget...

KCross

irishgrover wrote: »

Profile: 90% driving under 30km
Yearly mileage: < 12,000 miles
Budget: Up to 30k

Option 1: 2016/17 Merc C350e (~26k)

Option 2: 2017/2018 530e (~31k)

Option 3: 191/192 Nero (~30k)

NOTE: Other family car is Ioniq BEV

thanks :-)

There will be a slew of PHEV's next year, particularly across the VAG range.
e.g. the Mk8 Golf will continue with its GTE version. Merc have A and B class PHEV's coming out with DC charging and 13kWh+ batteries and 60km+ range

Are you in a hurry to buy?

With your 30km range needs I'd be trying to get something that has 50km+ range as you know only too well that it wont do 50km in this current weather. Get something with 30km range and it will probably be <20km in some circumstances and then you're burning petrol.

I'd be trying to get a PHEV where you only burn petrol on your occasional long trips, not an everyday occurrence. I guess it depends on whats important to you?

Yawlboy

Why not a BMW i3 REX?

Soarer

KCross wrote: »

There will be a slew of PHEV's next year, particularly across the VAG range.
e.g. the Mk8 Golf will continue with its GTE version. Merc have A and B class PHEV's coming out with DC charging and 13kWh+ batteries and 60km+ range

Are you in a hurry to buy?

With your 30km range needs I'd be trying to get something that has 50km+ range as you know only too well that it wont do 50km in this current weather. Get something with 30km range and it will probably be <20km in some circumstances and then you're burning petrol.

I'd be trying to get a PHEV where you only burn petrol on your occasional long trips, not an everyday occurrence. I guess it depends on whats important to you?

They're probably big bucks though?

gunnerfitzy

Other option: Vauxhall Ampera.

50-70km electric range. Extra 500km from 1.4 petrol engine.
Not a compliance car - 16kWh battery with just under 11kWh usable and fully electric up to 72mph.

Bring in 2013/2014 from UK for approx €15k.

Alkers

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

Other option: Vauxhall Ampera.

50-70km electric range. Extra 500km from 1.4 petrol engine.
Not a compliance car - 16kWh battery with just under 11kWh usable and fully electric up to 72mph.

Bring in 2013/2014 from UK for approx €15k.

Ampera will do more than 72mph on electric alone. The ice never kicks in unless the battery is depleted or you tell it to.

gunnerfitzy

Alkers wrote: »

Ampera will do more than 72mph on electric alone. The ice never kicks in unless the battery is depleted or you tell it to.

I haven't tried it myself but am going off reviews:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/vauxhall/ampera/18651/vauxhall-ampera

(edit: 75mph)

n97 mini

gunnerfitzy wrote: »

I haven't tried it myself but am going off reviews:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/vauxhall/ampera/18651/vauxhall-ampera

(edit: 75mph)

Car will go to the limit (~100 mph) on battery alone. The electric motor is more powerful than petrol engine after all.

ELM327

Another +1 for the volt/ampera if the outlander is off the table

ainsyjnr

ioniq phev. i have a premium se. 35miles on battery, 60-70 mpg once battery has gone. adaptive cruise control. great car.

Alkers

@ gunnerfitzy
Ah, I think they've worded it poorly but what I think they mean is that:
Whenever you select the "hold" function, the engine will kick in to conserve battery charge but the electric motor is still driving the wheels alone and the ICE is only providing electricity to recharge the battery. When you have 'hold' selected and go above 75mph, the ICE is clutched in to provide direct drive to the wheels. If you don't have 'hold' selected, the engine won't kick in until the battery depletes.

That's my understanding anyway!

gunnerfitzy

n97 mini wrote: »

Car will go to the limit (~100 mph) on battery alone. The electric motor is more powerful than petrol engine after all.

Good to know. If I wasn't the driving miss daisy type I'd try it out

n97 mini

Alkers wrote: »

Ah, I think they've worded it poorly but what I think they mean is that:
Whenever you select the "hold" function, the engine will kick in to conserve battery charge but the electric motor is still driving the wheels alone and the ICE is only providing electricity to recharge the battery. When you have 'hold' selected and go above 75mph, the ICE is clutched in to provide direct drive to the wheels. If you don't have 'hold' selected, the engine won't kick in until the battery depletes.

That's my understanding anyway!

The 75 mph thing was debunked. I used to think it too, till someone posted a link to an interview with a GM engineer who said the ICE is clutched to the wheels when it suits, i.e. the engine rpm and wheel speed are matched.

gunnerfitzy

Alkers wrote: »

@ gunnerfitzy
Ah, I think they've worded it poorly but what I think they mean is that:
Whenever you select the "hold" function, the engine will kick in to conserve battery charge but the electric motor is still driving the wheels alone and the ICE is only providing electricity to recharge the battery. When you have 'hold' selected and go above 75mph, the ICE is clutched in to provide direct drive to the wheels. If you don't have 'hold' selected, the engine won't kick in until the battery depletes.

That's my understanding anyway!

That makes sense!!

Mickeroo

ainsyjnr wrote: »

ioniq phev. i have a premium se. 35miles on battery, 60-70 mpg once battery has gone. adaptive cruise control. great car.

Have you been getting that range on battery? That's very good. I ended up going for the BEV in the end but was interested n the PHEV too. They seem to be pretty rare.

ELM327

ainsyjnr wrote: »

ioniq phev. i have a premium se. 35miles on battery, 60-70 mpg once battery has gone. adaptive cruise control. great car.

Great shout.
Ioniq is super efficient in all its forms, BEV, PHEV, HEV, and 35 miles EV range and the remainder on 60-70mpg is pretty damn impressive


I did 50k km in an Ioniq BEV and they are a great spec car for the money

Soarer

What about a Passat Estate GTE?

Don’t know anything about their range or reliability.

creedp

KCross wrote: »

There will be a slew of PHEV's next year, particularly across the VAG range.
e.g. the Mk8 Golf will continue with its GTE version. Merc have A and B class PHEV's coming out with DC charging and 13kWh+ batteries and 60km+ range

Are you in a hurry to buy?

With your 30km range needs I'd be trying to get something that has 50km+ range as you know only too well that it wont do 50km in this current weather. Get something with 30km range and it will probably be <20km in some circumstances and then you're burning petrol.

I'd be trying to get a PHEV where you only burn petrol on your occasional long trips, not an everyday occurrence. I guess it depends on whats important to you?

Are there any affordable 7 seater phevs coming on stream? Will finally be changing diesel 7 seater next year (after 11 years). There doesn't seem to be anything other than diesel on the market at present so unless something affordable pops up unexpectantly it will be 2nd hand diesel again for me for another few years

KCross

creedp wrote: »

Are there any affordable 7 seater phevs coming on stream? Will finally be changing diesel 7 seater next year (after 11 years). There doesn't seem to be anything other than diesel on the market at present so unless something affordable pops up unexpectantly it will be 2nd hand diesel again for me for another few years

Thats the key word. The answer is no really.

There are a few premium versions... XC90, Tesla's, etc.

You could go all-in with a 7 seater BEV.... eNV200!

User1998

Soarer wrote: »

What about a Passat Estate GTE?

Don’t know anything about their range or reliability.

Very rare currently none of them for sale in Ireland. More popular in the UK. They get about 30km range and the 1.4 tsi would be fairly reliable, same setup as my Golf GTE

creedp

KCross wrote: »

Thats the key word. The answer is no really.

There are a few premium versions... XC90, Tesla's, etc.

You could go all-in with a 7 seater BEV.... eNV200!

I'm afraid those options are unfortunately outside my budget at present. Granted the ENV200 is within budget but outside of the styling which I would have serious difficulties living with, it doesn't have the range needed for regular long journeys. This is where a phev would be great.

Paul Kiernan

I have the 530e and it is really a fabulous car. Only downside is the range which can be as low as 20km in traffic/bad weather!

Looking at the BMW UK website there are very few cars over a year old available and they're relatively expensive. If you could stretch to it you could probably import a very low mileage 2019 with a good spec for 34k or so.

Mike9832

BMX 225xe

25k all in from UK for 19

Excellent value

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201910213541824?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2019&postcode=m52ty&model=2%20SERIES%20ACTIVE%20TOURER&sort=price-asc&page=1&radius=1500&make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used

mickdw

Just put a deposit on a 2018 msport plus pack 530e today in UK.
Registered late in 18 so just turned 1 year old.
They seem to be a fabulous machine but no doubt warranty is critical.

rolion

At this moment,the Outlander is the King Of PHEVs.

AWC makes a lot of sense these days when road ssurface is frosty.
All the safety features are just like my right hand ,a copilot.
Battery and EV mode goes fine,charge easy every night. Drive like a gentleman in ECO and does the 40ish.
Add the B0 mode and glide with the luxobarge ,i guesstimate it gives me an extra 15 km every day just by doing B0 modes.
Disable ECO mode and press $WD lock and press the pedal...most of othe rcars will stop due to bends or road being soft...with AWC just keep going.

Comfort,big and safe for everyone inside.

Have fun !

obriea3

mickdw wrote: »

Just put a deposit on a 2018 msport plus pack 530e today in UK.
Registered late in 18 so just turned 1 year old.
They seem to be a fabulous machine but no doubt warranty is critical.

Just imported a 182. Getting about 23 to 25k with the bad weather art the moment. Excellent car.

Shefwedfan

We went Outlander. So wGolf and then Outlander. So far love it. Getting about 30km on the battery range so happy days, missed can get to work, do all drop off and majority of way home before the petrol kicks in. Full tank which is circa 40 quid and we will get the circa 400miles/650km out of it

I have done a full two week driving without using a drop of petrol when just spinning around to my local office while misses had my car. Space is good, spec is good. Nice to drive, hammered it down the road other day and wasn’t too bad on petrol either.

Just an options. The other version I would go is Golf PHEV or the Niro PHEV

Lantus

350e.... Take a read of honest John. Returns 40mpg....

Kramer

rolion wrote: »

At this moment,the Outlander is the King Of PHEVs.

Only thing is you can't really charge your Outlander at the fast chargers or even slow ones really - I don't think it's permitted. At least that's what I understand from BEV drivers.

.......ducks & runs for cover.......

Kramer

irishgrover wrote:

Help me choose a PHEV

You could retitle the thread "what PHEV do you own" & it wouldn't have been any different .

sgalvin

I bought a Kia Optima PHEV recently which I understand has the same powertrain as the Niro but a 2.0 petrol engine. It is obviously much more spacious inside but the boot is shallower. It does however have a 7 year warranty on the whole ev powertrain battery etc. My 171 cost €21k vrt paid.

Note all heating for the ventilation system comes from the petrol engine but when it runs it charges the battery too. I am seeing 57-60km electric range as with the regular heating on.
If the ventilation is turned off or the set temp is met, the engine stops immediately and you could use heater steering/seats to keep warm but I haven’t.

The mpg display maxes out at 99.9 mpg so don’t know what I’m actually getting above this. On petrol alone I haven’t see less than 50mpg. A full tank of 50litres shows a range of >1,000 km.

There was an estate too which is rated to tow and has a bigger battery and a higher spec.

irishgrover wrote: »

Profile: 90% driving under 30km
Yearly mileage: < 12,000 miles
Budget: Up to 30k

Option 1: 2016/17 Merc C350e (~26k)

Option 2: 2017/2018 530e (~31k)

Option 3: 191/192 Nero (~30k)

NOTE: Other family car is Ioniq BEV

thanks :-)

Shefwedfan

Kramer wrote: »

You could retitle the thread "what PHEV do you own" & it wouldn't have been any different .

Very few decent PHEV in market so yes you will get loads of people recommending PHEV they own.

The outlander at the moment seem to be king. It’s the biggest selling cars in Uk, mostly because it is a PHEV and smaller BIK etc

I looked at other PHEV before buying the outlander and nothing else came close in terms of cost/spec/value etc

ELM327

creedp wrote: »

I'm afraid those options are unfortunately outside my budget at present. Granted the ENV200 is within budget but outside of the styling which I would have serious difficulties living with, it doesn't have the range needed for regular long journeys. This is where a phev would be great.

The new Env200 with the 40kWh battery is grand for range, think leaf40 minus 10%


Phil in electric autos can supply them.

rolion wrote: »

At this moment,the Outlander is the King Of PHEVs.

AWC makes a lot of sense these days when road ssurface is frosty.
All the safety features are just like my right hand ,a copilot.
Battery and EV mode goes fine,charge easy every night. Drive like a gentleman in ECO and does the 40ish.
Add the B0 mode and glide with the luxobarge ,i guesstimate it gives me an extra 15 km every day just by doing B0 modes.
Disable ECO mode and press $WD lock and press the pedal...most of othe rcars will stop due to bends or road being soft...with AWC just keep going.

Comfort,big and safe for everyone inside.

Have fun !

Agree, if I was 20km closer to work I'd have gotten one

Shefwedfan wrote: »

We went Outlander. So wGolf and then Outlander. So far love it. Getting about 30km on the battery range so happy days, missed can get to work, do all drop off and majority of way home before the petrol kicks in. Full tank which is circa 40 quid and we will get the circa 400miles/650km out of it

I have done a full two week driving without using a drop of petrol when just spinning around to my local office while misses had my car. Space is good, spec is good. Nice to drive, hammered it down the road other day and wasn’t too bad on petrol either.

Just an options. The other version I would go is Golf PHEV or the Niro PHEV

Missed you getting that, well wear, much better than the diesel galaxy it replaced I presume

creedp

ELM327 wrote: »

The new Env200 with the 40kWh battery is grand for range, think leaf40 minus 10%

Unfortunately its of limited use if you regularly do a 350km each way trip with 4 kids. A 7 seater Outlander PHEV would be the business but sadly not available

Soarer

creedp wrote: »

Unfortunately its of limited use if you regularly do a 350km each way trip with 4 kids. A 7 seater Outlander PHEV would be the business but sadly not available

Who is regularly doing that sort of journey with 4 kids in the car?

creedp

Soarer wrote: »

Who is regularly doing that sort of journey with 4 kids in the car?

Head 'home' once every 6/8 weeks. Can currently complete it is 4 hours non-stop. Tried it a couple of time on my own in L30 and it took 6/6.5 hrs and a lot of stress. Glad charging has been introduced FCPs as now there is absolutely no incentive to repeat that scenario.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

Missed you getting that, well wear, much better than the diesel galaxy it replaced I presume

Thanks



Picked it up a few months back. With the Galaxy we struggled to get 700-800km out of a full tank of diesel at nearly 90 quid a fill. Great for long distance and space but city driving it is not for



Miss Shefwed was also based in city centre so parking the Galaxy around Dublin was a nightmare, the Outlander might look big but it is a hell of a lot easier to park and the round view monitor is also handy!!



Once I got the new eGolf I knew the Misses wouldnt be long till knocking on door for a swap :P

irishgrover

FYI: I bought a 530e

I fear my head might explode right up my own arse with righteous indignation when I a BEV driver, consider charging my wife's new 530e at 3.1kW at a 22kW fast charger :-).
Obviously in order to get maximum points I'll sit at the charger, not charging, and patiently wait till a ZOE appears and then plug in in front of then and tell them I'll be back in three hours or do

Kramer

irishgrover wrote: »

FYI: I bought a 530e

Great choice - well wear .

irishgrover wrote: »

my..... new 530e at 3.1kW at a 22kW fast charger :-).

You/she can actually pull 3.7kW with the 530e & remember, the electrons are still free at SCPs so you've as much right to them as any pesky BEV driver.
They're just jealous you've obviously made it & drive a prestigious executive German saloon while they're stuck hypermiling in a Korean econobox .

......Kramer ducks & runs for cover......

:D:D

irishgrover

Kramer wrote: »

Great choice - well wear .


They're just jealous you've obviously made it & drive a prestigious executive German saloon while they're stuck hypermiling in a Korean econobox .

thanks :-)
I'll pass your good wishes onto my wife (who will own and drive the car...
Alas, I'll still be driving around in my "Korean econobox", ie my lovely Ioniq

Kramer

irishgrover wrote: »

I'll still be driving around in my "Korean econobox", ie my lovely Ioniq

Nothing wrong with the Ioniq - the Kramers managed over 40k kms in one last year .