Wind / Rainfall warnings :Potentially very windy Weds 18th Dec 2019

coillsaille

As I said earlier in the thread I never rely on media for awareness of weather events and like others I welcomed the absence of ridiculous and hyped media coverage.

I expressed dissatisfaction with ME for upgrading the west to orange when the gusts had already reached damaging strength. I have suffered structural damage but obviously the warning level made no difference to that. I had been following the system and the charts since Meteorite first flagged it and was well aware of the potential.

It seemed obvious to me with my limited knowledge from looking at the various models that Galway and Mayo would get orange level winds for a brief period. I just don't understand why ME only reached the same conclusion at 8pm.

Yes the yellow warning was put out in plenty of time. But my difficulty was in trying to convince other members of my household not to travel yesterday evening. My other half was supposed to make a trip that would have involved her driving through Salthill and Barna around the time the flooding occurred and trees came down in those areas. It took a major arguement to dissuade her due to the fact it was only a yellow warning, which is almost a weekly occurrence in the west in winter. An earlier orange would have saved all that arguing.

Sorry for long winded post and yes I know there's a thread for the warnings before someone feels the need to point it out.

Gaoth Laidir

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Still nonsense. How has my thinking got anything to do with anything?

I think maybe you're one of those whose only source of news is your Facebook newsfeed. At 10 am yesterdau M.È. put out an update that accurately reflected the latest data and what then actually transpired. This was preceded by two RTE bulletins the night before that blatantly highlighted STORM along the west coast. If you're not able to keep up with that then leave the phone down for a minute and open your eyes and ears.

Say that to the three colleagues I know who are going to have to find bike & car repairs in the run up to Christmas.

Dismiss me all you want, as long as Met Eireann dismisses listening to people who talk like you. If I hear you complaining about too much hype then I’ll know they’ve done a good job.

Gaoth Laidir

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Say that to the three colleagues I know who are going to have to find bike & car repairs in the run up to Christmas.

Dismiss me all you want, as long as Met Eireann dismisses listening to people who talk like you. If I hear you complaining about too much hype then I’ll know they’ve done a good job.

Met Éireann are never the ones to hype. It's those media outlets whose headlines you scroll through.

Donegal Storm

The reactions here just enforce GL's post last night that people now relies on tabloid and Facebook hype for their weather. Everyone needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and warned with blanket coverage of the impending colour coded doom that a few hours of windy weather will cause, sensible and accurate forecasts are no longer adequate.

Donegal Storm

Donegal Storm wrote: »

Everyone needs to be wrapped in cotton wool and warned with blanket coverage of the impending colour coded doom that a few hours of windy weather will cause, sensible and accurate forecasts are no longer adequate.

Yep.

Start bitching at your friends & relatives about weather awareness. Make sure they all know all of the science. Give classes at your local library. Stand at a street corner with a megaphone telling them to read the scientific journal that’ll give them accuracy.

Or accept they have no time to get accurate and need big flashing signs to get them to heed warnings.

Edit: and it’s more than just people. Management in businesses expect attendance during Yellow warnings, most expect it during Orange ones as well. Without the warning in effect, employees who decide to stay home from inclement weather could line themselves up for disciplinary action with no defence.

John.Icy

It is laughable how posts here genuinely seem to think the trees wouldn't have fallen etc. if a Met E called an orange earlier.

People in the west have spent years on here dismissing winds of 120km/h as "sure we get this every winter". Yet now because of a late colour upgrade the same winds are the worst in years and MetE are crap. Beside Mace Head and someones personal Galway city reading of 125km/h, the winds were between 100-120km/h in the West. 10km/h of those speeds are covered by a yellow warning and a warning of even higher gusts was also mentioned (though it wasn't just coasts in the end).

Remove the colours. That warning from the morning GL eluded to was fairly spot on. But people are mad because of a colour.

Edit: Storm10, Roches point did reach Orange warning gusts to be fair.

Edit: MetE aren't perfect and I am not suggesting the forecast was flawless. But sheesh the guff on here and social media.

endainoz

It was the different direction of the wind that people simply can't get their head around. Was always going to be more damaging and cause more trees to fall.

Gust did not get to orange levels for the most part, but the different wind direction paired with the high tide and recent heavy rainfall made all the difference here.

Met Eireann gave their warnings early enough for me.

SleetAndSnow

I don't think people realise that Yellow alerts do actually go up to 110km/h which is what a lot of stations recorded during the storm. I read a few pages back that someone's station in Mayo read 111km/h, 1km into the orange. Obviously varies per location but yellows are still to be taken seriously, 110 km is a lot.

This storm was also coming from the south east which makes things worse as we are used to South Westerly/Westerly winds. This is one problem with Met Eireanns system, it isn't impact based but that's a story for another thread.

They did well, the alerts were correct. And to that poster saying "cork wasn't hit"..? Yes it was? It was orange. Hundreds of trees are down, there was thousands without power near the city. Please leave that nonsense somewhere else.

From what I can see all the warnings were correct with orange criteria just about being reached with the system we currently have, and everywhere else being yellow.

Tldr; don't ignore the yellow alerts in the future.

Also this flooding in salthill isn't all met Eireanns fault, what was the Galway city council doing?? When situations like that arise in cork we receive automated text messages, are told the Lee is going to flood and the roads that will be closed and that's it without met eireann mentioning high tides etc.

ednwireland

endainoz wrote: »

It was the different direction of the wind that people simply can't get their head around. Was always going to be more damaging and cause more trees to fall.

Gust did not get to orange levels for the most part, but the different wind direction paired with the high tide and recent heavy rainfall made all the difference here.

Met Eireann gave their warnings early enough for me.

between 102 and 113 kmh for met eireann weather stations in donegal, no idea what that means in colour warnings, i was watching the ventusky wind gusts which gave me more info than met e ever does for where i live.

revsperminute

+1 On the remove the colour coding of warnings.

They are ridiculous and not fit for purpose. People and "snowflakes" might actually start listening to the weather forecast again like they did years ago rather than just waiting to here if there is a yellow, orange or red warning.

I live on the east side of Galway city and didn't think it was that bad last night. A gale force wind but nothing out of the ordinary for a winter storm in the west of Ireland.

STB.

Personal responsibility.


You don't need minute detailed forecasts. Oh and those app things. They don't bloody work.

endainoz

ednwireland wrote: »

between 102 and 113 kmh for met eireann weather stations in donegal, no idea what that means in colour warnings, i was watching the ventusky wind gusts which gave me more info than met e ever does for where i live.

Well that's exactly the problem, you should know. As the post above your one says: gusts for a yellow can go up to 110km.

Your also contradicting yourself, how did you get the info off the met Eireann weather stations if you don't follow them?

coillsaille

John.Icy wrote: »

It is laughable how posts here genuinely seem to think the trees wouldn't have fallen etc. if a Met E called an orange earlier. .

Wow that is ridiculous alright! But just wondering who was it here that made such laughable statements? Must have missed those posts.

Graces7

Deleted User wrote: »

Say that to the three colleagues I know who are going to have to find bike & car repairs in the run up to Christmas.

Dismiss me all you want, as long as Met Eireann dismisses listening to people who talk like you. If I hear you complaining about too much hype then I’ll know they’ve done a good job.

Not sure of the blame you are apportioning? Assuming they have insurance? Weather can and does change unpredictably and suddenly. Would they have stayed home?

ednwireland

endainoz wrote: »

Well that's exactly the problem, you should know. As the post above your one says: gusts for a yellow can go up to 110km.

Your also contradicting yourself, how did you get the info off the met Eireann weather stations if you don't follow them?

i looked at them this morning !
my own power was out this morning beeen in since 8am sorting power out in the office, havent looked at my own weather station (but in a sheltered spot)

i was looking at ventusky yesterday not met eireann for the forecast

this is what it was showing for 1:00am this morning

Graces7

Graces7 wrote: »

Not sure of the blame you are apportioning? Assuming they have insurance? Weather can and does change unpredictably and suddenly. Would they have stayed home?

Wow.

Let’s clear it for people who have the luxury of a life away from the corporate world of “you work unless there’s a red warning”.

Had accurate warnings occured, the bikers would have taken alternative transport, the driver would have not gone out to her car.

As for the “personal responsibility”, well that’s just the kind of attitude that brings about the perpetual health crisis and the becoming-perpetual homelessness crisis. Workers don’t have that luxury.

I saw the charts myself on the thread yesterday and I would have questioned coming in had the warnings reflected the data. But without the Orange, I have nothing to bring to my employer as justification for staying home. A Yellow is not understood as a wind strength measure, but as an action measure.
A Yellow is for outdoor workers & travellers to take care. An Orange puts it at your own discretion as to whether to venture out or not. You’re covered if you look at the data & can justify your decision specifically.
Red is the only thing that even the scroungiest most uncaring pennypinching sc**bag can understand to let their minions stay home.

pjohnson

Seems Mer Eireann arent any more reliable than Facebook/tabloids when they only update DURING the event.

Hooter23

John.Icy wrote: »

It is laughable how posts here genuinely seem to think the trees wouldn't have fallen etc. if a Met E called an orange earlier.

People in the west have spent years on here dismissing winds of 120km/h as "sure we get this every winter". Yet now because of a late colour upgrade the same winds are the worst in years and MetE are crap. Beside Mace Head and someones personal Galway city reading of 125km/h, the winds were between 100-120km/h in the West. 10km/h of those speeds are covered by a yellow warning and a warning of even higher gusts was also mentioned (though it wasn't just coasts in the end).

Remove the colours. That warning from the morning GL eluded to was fairly spot on. But people are mad because of a colour.

Edit: Storm10, Roches point did reach Orange warning gusts to be fair.

Edit: MetE aren't perfect and I am not suggesting the forecast was flawless. But sheesh the guff on here and social media.

The point is it was upgraded to Orange warning too late...The whole point of a forecast is that you get warned long before a storm arrives and not during the storm...Whats the point of predicting the weather if you get it wrong everytime there is an actual weather event:rolleyes:

Snow Garden

It always boggles me when Salthill is used as the barometer of a storm. Salthill is a unique place in Galway and can flood whether there is Yellow, Orange or Red level winds. Atiyah was Orange but there was zero flooding in Salthill. There have been many many storms of all warning levels where Salthill did not flood.
Flooding in Salthill is dependent on many variable factors including tide timing, tide height, wind direction and wind speed. And it's not really about wind speed in terms of max gusts, it's more about how sustained those wind speeds are (mean speeds). Sustained high winds are way worse than sporadic severe gusts. You could have red level winds and an above average high tide but Salthill would not flood if the winds were northerlies.
Last night wasn't a particular high tide (4.3m). Xmas day will have a much higher tide (5.1m). A Yellow level wind on Xmas day in similar conditions would cause Salthill to flood.

Salthill has a lot of reclaimed land and has a few key pinch points where the sea comes in. People think the flooding is cause by waves crashing above the sea wall rocks but the water mostly comes in under the road (via cracks in the reclaimed landfill) and rises into the car parks. This is why it seems to happen so fast. Bottom line, if there is any hint of a storm, do not park in the Salthill car parks. Blaming MetE is infantile.

And don't get me started on Flood Street in the city centre!

SleetAndSnow

ednwireland wrote: »

i looked at them this morning !
my own power was out this morning beeen in since 8am sorting power out in the office, havent looked at my own weather station (but in a sheltered spot)

i was looking at ventusky yesterday not met eireann for the forecast

this is what it was showing for 1:00am this morning

And that is within the yellow warning bracket.

The only places to get orange level winds were Roche's Point, knock airport and mace head according to the official stations, (thanks sryan for the data) others may vary. Mace head is right on the coast and knock airport is up high.

So yes, while the winds were strong it was because they were from a different direction then normal which we weren't used too.

If you want to talk about the warnings and changing the system go to the weather warning thread but stop clogging this one up with stuff where people can talk about the actual effects of what happened.

pjohnson

Hooter23 wrote: »

The point is it was upgraded to Orange warning too late...The whole point of a forecast is that you get warned long before a storm arrives and not during the storm...Whats the point of predicting the weather if you get it wrong everytime there is an actual weather event:rolleyes:

I guess Met Eireann deserve praise for having the skill to look out a window and realise "this seems bad"


Social Media was better than Met for Galway.

John.Icy

Hooter23 wrote: »

The point is it was upgraded to Orange warning too late...The whole point of a forecast is that you get warned long before a storm arrives and not during the storm...Whats the point of predicting the weather if you get it wrong everytime there is an actual weather event:rolleyes:

That is on you for ignoring a yellow storm warning with potential for gusts higher (i.e. above 110km/h) in parts of S&W.

Trees can fall at wind speeds of 80km/h. Surely regardless if colour people can recognise 110km/h is a threat for damage.

The Orange was late but that DOES NOT equal to the storm coming totally out of the blue. It was warned for winds to 110km/h and potentially higher.

OldRio

People still without power in Leitrim and Longford and Roscommon.
It certainly was a bad one.

Gaoth Laidir

Deleted User wrote: »

Wow.

Let’s clear it for people who have the luxury of a life away from the corporate world of “you work unless there’s a red warning”.

Had accurate warnings occured, the bikers would have taken alternative transport, the driver would have not gone out to her car.

As for the “personal responsibility”, well that’s just the kind of attitude that brings about the perpetual health crisis and the becoming-perpetual homelessness crisis. Workers don’t have that luxury.

I saw the charts myself on the thread yesterday and I would have questioned coming in had the warnings reflected the data. But without the Orange, I have nothing to bring to my employer as justification for staying home. A Yellow is not understood as a wind strength measure, but as an action measure.
A Yellow is for outdoor workers & travellers to take care. An Orange puts it at your own discretion as to whether to venture out or not. You’re covered if you look at the data & can justify your decision specifically.
Red is the only thing that even the scroungiest most uncaring pennypinching sc**bag can understand to let their minions stay home.

I think your anger has nothing at all to do with Met Éireann but more to do with a general anti-anything-government. Bringing up health and homelessness has nothing to do with anything.

And it's also pretty clear that you're one of those who looks for any excuse to get off work. You're peeved you had to go work. Most people on here are "workers" too, so I'm not sure why you seem to see yourself as a special case.

Change job.

As for Galway County and City Councils, etc. They should know better than anyone when there is a threat to Salthill, knowing well in advance when high tide is and matching that with the general weather forecast. They are as guilty as anyone for allowing people to park where they did, knowing 24 hours in advance that strong southerly winds were forecast for the time of high tide.

Storm 10

Galway City and County Councils were give the warning at 8pm it was already on at that stage so they had no chance to close roads or put out sandbags so don't blame them.

Also this flooding in salthill isn't all met Eireanns fault, what was the
Galway city council doing?? When situations like that arise in cork we receive
automated text messages, are told the Lee is going to flood and the roads that
will be closed and that's it without met eireann mentioning high tides etc.

SleetAndSnow

Storm 10 wrote: »

Galway City and County Councils were give the warning at 8pm it was already on at that stage so they had no chance to close roads or put out sandbags so don't blame them.

Really? It's salthill, it floods a lot, any weather warning they should put out the sandbags and close off the roads. It's land reclaimed from the sea and an area that floods without high waves. I 100% blame Galway city council for that. They should monitor the area to ensure it's alright. Met eireann can't be checking every single aspect of the country at once. They weren't given the warning at 8 they were given an "orange" warning at 8 and official reports look like it may have just been orange or else below. They had an advisory and then a yellow warning, which salthill often floods in aswell. No excuses for that.

Gaoth Laidir

ednwireland wrote: »

got a battering in sw donegal last night between 11pm and 2am. branches all over the road and trees down. route in to work blocked this morning !

worst storm for a while up here. typical of met eireann to ignore donegal.

Or typical of Donegal to ignore Met Éireann.

There was ample warning of a system that you of all people should be the most used to for this time of the year. The strongest gust I saw was 115 km/h at Malin Head (a breeze for there), 112 km/h at Finner, 109 km/h at Donegal Airport and 93 km/h at Sligo Airport just across the water. Even Belmullet only got 115 km/h. Not exactly worthy of all the wrath.

endainoz

OldRio wrote: »

People still without power in Leitrim and Longford and Roscommon.
It certainly was a bad one.

Still out here in North Clare, figured out this morning a tree had fell onto a power line and snapped an esb pole.

OldRio

Deary me. I'm not sure who is the worst?
The posters who just Luurvee ME or those who just want to have a go at everything ME.

There is a middle ground you know.

I also do know that's not how the internet works��

Reckless Abandonment

revsperminute wrote: »

+1 On the remove the colour coding of warnings.

They are ridiculous and not fit for purpose. People and "snowflakes" might actually start listening to the weather forecast again like they did years ago rather than just waiting to here if there is a yellow, orange or red warning.

.

100% agree with this. The codes are turing into more of a problem than a help. People only pay attention if the see orange or red. I'm waiting for M.E to be sued at some point by a snowflake that broke a nail during a storm that was out of warning level by a few km an hour.. As far as salthill is concerned, that carpark should be closed anytime there is a gale blowing, its forever flooding