Where are we off to tomorrow

Trampas

When are the blocking dunnes or SuperValu?

Or is just the Germans fault?

What’s the difference between all the main supermarkets?

kk.man

BarryD2 wrote: »

I dunno - the authorities and companies involved in this have been remarkably tolerant to date. Protest is protest and entirely valid but you can't really have some groups in society basically taking the law into their own hands and interfering with normal business activity. Picketing these depots would be fair enough but blocking supply lorries and supply chains is quite a different matter.

I hear Lidl and Aldi playing it softly, softly at the moment - they're conscious of the PR. But you're only as good as your last customer and nothing at all to stop these companies just taking their business elsewhere, even at a cost. They'd have the financial power to do that.

Do you realise that dry stock farming is on it's knees in this country? A few years ago farmers might have targeted premesis more select now most farmers don't care because the financial situation has never been as bad and that's not just this year.

Jjameson

Trampas wrote: »

When are the blocking dunnes or SuperValu?

Or is just the Germans fault?

What’s the difference between all the main supermarkets?

Wrangler might be able to answer that for you because I have exhausted any resource I have for an answer?
Irish consumers only buy 10% of our beef. These retailers only a small percentage of that. They were engaging with protesting beef farmers in dialogue at least which is more than can be said for the other retailers.

Neddyusa

https://m.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/beef-prices/goodman-beef-group-confirms-beef-price-rise-38760137.html

Throwing fuel on the flames with IFA dig in that ABP statement!


Farming Independent

Beef Prices
Goodman beef group confirms beef price rise



ABP the beef processing group has confirmed the beef price it pays to farmers will rise on Monday.

In a statement, it said, "the company is at a complete loss to understand why Joe Healy, the outgoing IFA President, pursued a course of irresponsible, disruptive and illegal action at retail distribution centres this week".


It said the Beef Task Force met on Tuesday and Joe Healy and the IFA were fully aware that market indications pointed towards a cattle price increase in Ireland.

"Joe Healy is also aware that cattle prices are quoted on a Friday and the timing of this stunt was motivated by competition for membership between traditional and new farm organisations"

MIKEKC

kk.man wrote: »

The IFA runin for cover now as the BP or whatever their name is have momentum. IFA seriously miscalculated by not initiated factory protests.
Beef price is a scandal beyond all proportion at this stage. Years ago beef price was poor and factories were picketed agreement reached. Everyone went back to work prices increased and no grudges held. There is something very sinester about this one. I know of the rouge element of some protestors but the factories are getting up with flees this time. By digging their heels in they are only stiring the pot.

I would have no sympathy for the factories if there was a return to the gates. Protests all over the world have changed tactics. These are very powerful instruments of persuasion and most effective.

The only thing the factory protest got was an extra 100,000 overage cattle

MIKEKC

wrangler wrote: »

Blocking factories was an outrage too but we just had to set up with it,
Farmers formed splinter groups, they'd be naive to think that they weren't going to cross swords with IFA in the months ahead.
Joe healy justified and defended the protest last night on Prime time which is more that IFOI ever did

You mean he tried to justify it. Let's hope Supervalue gets the same treatment tomorrow

wrangler

Jjameson wrote: »

The ica have as much political pull as the ifa.
When the ifa lost militancy what have politicians got to fear from them. It’s more a case of how do we share the press release for this few bob now so it’s a win for Phil hogan. A delivery from the IFA and got over the line by Michael creed and Andrew Doyle..

How would you like to keep a house in Brussels and two houses here, 2 cars and 2 housekeepers?? It’s not easy!
You should try it.

Irish farming will be the joke if they disband for 5c/kg

Jjameson

wrangler wrote: »

Irish farming will be the joke if they disband for 5c/kg

Any rise has nothing to do with this Micky mouse farce! Pure comedy.

Bullocks

wrangler wrote: »

Irish farming will be the joke if they disband for 5c/kg

Are you attending any of these protests wrangler?

blue5000

So the man from del monte said 'yes'. I suppose if you're a diehard ifa person you could think it's a result. The more cynical of us might think it just goes to show who pays the piper.:rolleyes:

wrangler

Bullocks wrote: »

Are you attending any of these protests wrangler?

No, finished now.
Have they disbanded

wrangler

blue5000 wrote: »

So the man from del monte said 'yes'. I suppose if you're a diehard ifa person you could think it's a result. The more cynical of us might think it just goes to show who pays the piper.:rolleyes:

Was it 5c
It's no result, If I get 5c in change I throw it in the poor box

6480

wrangler wrote: »

Factories just think its hilarious having farmers at the gate, the last protest should've finally proved that for everyone.
Farmers pushed it to the limit and got nothing.
50 in naas this morning, 200 in dublin last week. not a lot of people worried out of 100000 or whatever

There was more than 200 in Dublin last week u ifa diehard .

kk.man

MIKEKC wrote: »

The only thing the factory protest got was an extra 100,000 overage cattle

The protests achieved a lot more than some give credit for. Big meat processors were putting the boot into the Beef finisher and prices were heading for 3e per kg fast. A procurement manager confirmed that to me during the summer. For the first time in years farmers stood up to the factories and said no. The main farming bodies couldn't see the anger on the ground and buried their heads in the sand by diplomatically asking for a price increase. Mll just used the occasion as a talking shop.
The factories sent out messages that they wanted to collapse the store price as an excuse and get lads to fill sheds.
When the IFA was in a bad place Larry dug their grave deeper by withdrawing fees he collected. Result; weakened IFA and farmer anger. Result; new farm organisation out of no where with militant strategies.
Two sets of strikes when it should have been settled the first time. Factories got bold and thought that was it.
Processing resumes albeit huge kills. The law of supply and demand should have dictated that the price to fall. ABP statement during yesterday states that's their benchmark. Guess what? The price of cattle remains static during the backlog... How do you figure that out?
Cattle prices increase significantly across the UK and EU but Irish factories hold. All bodies who monitor cattle prices agree that we are way behind the rest of the Market. Rumour Mill going on for weeks. IFA blockade two supermarket distribution centres and hey presto we have a increase.
Whether you are a factory person or a farmer if you want to believe in Mll spin doctoring you are entitled to. I for one wouldn't believe a word from them. The only thing a bully understands is a fight. If you give into one you are finished.
I admire what many of what these companies achieved and I'd say it to them if I met them. But I won't be rode either.

wrangler

kk.man wrote: »

The protests achieved a lot more than some give credit for. Big meat processors were putting the boot into the Beef finisher and prices were heading for 3e per kg fast. A procurement manager confirmed that to me during the summer. For the first time in years farmers stood up to the factories and said no. The main farming bodies couldn't see the anger on the ground and buried their heads in the sand by diplomatically asking for a price increase. Mll just used the occasion as a talking shop.
The factories sent out messages that they wanted to collapse the store price as an excuse and get lads to fill sheds.
When the IFA was in a bad place Larry dug their grave deeper by withdrawing fees he collected. Result; weakened IFA and farmer anger. Result; new farm organisation out of no where with militant strategies.
Two sets of strikes when it should have been settled the first time. Factories got bold and thought that was it.
Processing resumes albeit huge kills. The law of supply and demand should have dictated that the price to fall. ABP statement during yesterday states that's their benchmark. Guess what? The price of cattle remains static during the backlog... How do you figure that out?
Cattle prices increase significantly across the UK and EU but Irish factories hold. All bodies who monitor cattle prices agree that we are way behind the rest of the Market. Rumour Mill going on for weeks. IFA blockade two supermarket distribution centres and hey presto we have a increase.
Whether you are a factory person or a farmer if you want to believe in Mll spin doctoring you are entitled to. I for one wouldn't believe a word from them. The only thing a bully understands is a fight. If you give into one you are finished.
I admire what many of these companies achieved and I'd say it to them if I met them. But I won't be rode either.

Price has turned for the better and even going by the price index 70000 cattle have been sold 20c/kg less than they should've been, If I'm guessing right it'll start to drop again early January when the christmas credit card bills come in

6480

kk.man wrote: »

The protests achieved a lot more than some give credit for. Big meat processors were putting the boot into the Beef finisher and prices were heading for 3e per kg fast. A procurement manager confirmed that to me during the summer. For the first time in years farmers stood up to the factories and said no. The main farming bodies couldn't see the anger on the ground and buried their heads in the sand by diplomatically asking for a price increase. Mll just used the occasion as a talking shop.
The factories sent out messages that they wanted to collapse the store price as an excuse and get lads to fill sheds.
When the IFA was in a bad place Larry dug their grave deeper by withdrawing fees he collected. Result; weakened IFA and farmer anger. Result; new farm organisation out of no where with militant strategies.
Two sets of strikes when it should have been settled the first time. Factories got bold and thought that was it.
Processing resumes albeit huge kills. The law of supply and demand should have dictated that the price to fall. ABP statement during yesterday states that's their benchmark. Guess what? The price of cattle remains static during the backlog... How do you figure that out?
Cattle prices increase significantly across the UK and EU but Irish factories hold. All bodies who monitor cattle prices agree that we are way behind the rest of the Market. Rumour Mill going on for weeks. IFA blockade two supermarket distribution centres and hey presto we have a increase.
Whether you are a factory person or a farmer if you want to believe in Mll spin doctoring you are entitled to. I for one wouldn't believe a word from them. The only thing a bully understands is a fight. If you give into one you are finished.
I admire what many of these companies achieved and I'd say it to them if I met them. But I won't be rode either.

The protest that lasted till the end of September highlighted alot of corruption, fraud,and other stuff in the whole beef industry.
Through the use of social media and other internet modes ordinary people from all different political parties and farm organisations have stayed together and are in contact with each other since Last September.
Farmers are not going to lie down longer. Farmers are the backbone of rural Ireland ,and are decent hard working people .rural Ireland is seeing a demise at the minute ie local pubs ,shops,banks,post offices all closing down.
Our young people having to travel away for work, football teams in our community not able to field teams,rural isolation on old people .
We need beef farming viable to keep rural Ireland going

kk.man

wrangler wrote: »

Price has turned for the better and even going by the price index 70000 cattle have been sold 20c/kg less than they should've been, If I'm guessing right it'll start to drop again early January when the christmas credit card bills come in

That may very well be Wrangler. However it's all hypothetical and we will never know for sure.

One thing we are certain of is that private industry controls the Beef trade. For example we have diary coops here and they have given a good standard of living to the farmer for decades. There has been hecups but they are farmers serving on the boards to keep the pressure on. In the UK private industry run the diarys and farmers had a much turbulent time over the same few decades despite its 60 odd million on its doorstep.
I for one am not advocating a nationisation or coop style meat plants but you get the picture.

wrangler

6480 wrote: »

The protest that lasted till the end of September highlighted alot of corruption, fraud,and other stuff in the whole beef industry.
Through the use of social media and other internet modes ordinary people from all different political parties and farm organisations have stayed together and are in contact with each other since Last September.
Farmers are not going to lie down longer. Farmers are the backbone of rural Ireland ,and are decent hard working people .rural Ireland is seeing a demise at the minute ie local pubs ,shops,banks,post offices all closing down.
Our young people having to travel away for work, football teams in our community not able to field teams,rural isolation on old people .
We need beef farming viable to keep rural Ireland going

Unless they prove it they are at nothing except losing customers through suspicion

Water John

I hear 30 was the number picketing Lidl today. The IFA Beef Commodity Committee is bigger than that. A pure stunt, with a bit of malicious intent, that everybody can see through.
They picked on the two retailers who have been the most supportive of farmers.

BarryD2

kk.man wrote: »

Do you realise that dry stock farming is on it's knees in this country? A few years ago farmers might have targeted premesis more select now most farmers don't care because the financial situation has never been as bad and that's not just this year.

Yes I think everyone understands at this stage that some beef farmers are being squeezed between rising costs and low prices. You'd also want to be seeing a full set of farm & household accounts to judge the full effect.

But leaving that aside, put yourself in the shoes of the likes of Aldi or Lidl or any of the other bigger retailers here. You're taking in a product, paying your supplier and selling to the public. Your supplier f***s you over by blocking your commercial activity - what would you do KKMan?

If the arrangement has some benefit to you, you'd likely just suck up the hardship for a little while, whilst keeping your options open. If it doesn't, then you just quietly cut those suppliers out of your procurement. Nobody owes you a living. That's a No1 rule of business and farming is a business.

wrangler

Water John wrote: »

I hear 30 was the number picketing Lidl today. The IFA Beef Commodity Committee is bigger than that. A pure stunt, with a bit of malicious intent, that everybody can see through.
They picked on the two retailers who have been the most supportive of farmers.

It was the same in 2013, a lot of us were peed off and aborted the protest, you can't leave it to a few to do it all.
Not surprised they never did it again

BarryD2

kk.man wrote: »

I for one am not advocating a nationisation or coop style meat plants but you get the picture.

Why not? Isn't that a solution that would put pricing more directly in the hands of the producer???

kk.man

BarryD2 wrote: »

Yes I think everyone understands at this stage that some beef farmers are being squeezed between rising costs and low prices. You'd also want to be seeing a full set of farm & household accounts to judge the full effect.

But leaving that aside, put yourself in the shoes of the likes of Aldi or Lidl or any of the other bigger retailers here. You're taking in a product, paying your supplier and selling to the public. Your supplier f***s you over by blocking your commercial activity - what would you do KKMan?

If the arrangement has some benefit to you, you'd likely just suck up the hardship for a little while, whilst keeping your options open. If it doesn't, then you just quietly cut those suppliers out of your procurement. Nobody owes you a living. That's a No1 rule of business and farming is a business.

My farming business operates solely on its own merits. It will sink or swim on its own too. Nobody owes me nor any farmer a living. When you go to the supermarket take a look at the price of beef and likewise go to a restaurant and order a steak and then look at what farmers are getting for prime beef 3.50 per kg. The processor has the hide and all it's offal for free and makes big money on it.
If you were a Luas driver or a nurse and not happy with your pay and conditions you can strike. Who does the strike hurt, the employer who pays your salary. Same principle.

kk.man

BarryD2 wrote: »

Why not? Isn't that a solution that would put pricing more directly in the hands of the producer???

It was tried before by Cork Marts and failed badly. Plus one company controls all the offal from this country.
The expense of starting from scratch would be prohibitive.

Water John

Mitchelstown couldn't run a pig factory but Barryroe (Stauntons) can. How a business succeeds is not largely about the ownership but about, the culture within the organisation.

BarryD2

kk.man wrote: »

My farming business operates solely on its own merits. It will sink or swim on its own too. Nobody owes me nor any farmer a living. When you go to the supermarket take a look at the price of beef and likewise go to a restaurant and order a steak and then look at what farmers are getting for prime beef 3.50 per kg. The processor has the hide and all it's offal for free and makes big money on it.

That's fine but your business also depends on how much the retailers need you. The meat factories are your customer and the retailers their customer and so on. You piss off your customers at your own peril. It's not quite the same as nurses, teachers, train drivers going on strike.. not the same thing at all.

kk.man

BarryD2 wrote: »

That's fine but your business also depends on how much the retailers need you. The meat factories are your customer and the retailers their customer and so on. You piss off your customers at your own peril. It's not quite the same as nurses, teachers, train drivers going on strike.. not the same thing at all.

It is the same. People go to the hand that feeds them when the food is reduced. Farmers and others have entered negotiations with most stakeholders for years and got nowhere. That was a last resort to air our grievance.

gerryirl

wrangler wrote: »

Irish farming will be the joke if they disband for 5c/kg

that will be tested cause I'm after getting call for to move a few next week and yes 5 cent increase

barnaman

DBK1 wrote: »

Them UK prices show that an R grade heifer is averaging about €3.95/kg. That’s 0.45 cent ahead of us at the minute which equates to €157 on an average 350kg carcass. I think there’d be a lot more optimism amoung beef farmers if we could get anywhere near matching that. I don’t understand how that’s supposed to show that the IFA have done plenty??

Not that big of a difference. €3.55 base for R3 plus 20c bonus is €3.75. So it is about €75 of a divide. Irish beef is not British beef. The massive problem is dirt cheap food that is unsustainable.



IFA got BDGP plus BEAM and BEEP they are worth nearly €200 per suckler cow. I am getting 10k from BEAM thanks to the IFA office in Brussels. Also more farming sectors than just beef. IFA represents the lot.



Not agree with manner of pickets myself ie a blockade but do believe we should be protesting at shops etc. Constant knarking at IFA sickens me they and others showing that farming and definitely beef farming is fuped. The goal of protests is now to protect our SFP and other payments. To pay me for land, sheds, machinery my time beef should be €5 or more a kilo .Anything less just a joke.

wrangler

barnaman wrote: »

Not that big of a difference. €3.55 base for R3 plus 20c bonus is €3.75. So it is about €75 of a divide. Irish beef is not British beef. The massive problem is dirt cheap food that is unsustainable.



IFA got BDGP plus BEAM and BEEP they are worth nearly €200 per suckler cow. I am getting 10k from BEAM thanks to the IFA office in Brussels. Also more farming sectors than just beef. IFA represents the lot.



Not agree with manner of pickets myself ie a blockade but do believe we should be protesting at shops etc. Constant knarking at IFA sickens me they and others showing that farming and definitely beef farming is fuped. The goal of protests is now to protect our SFP and other payments. To pay me for land, sheds, machinery my time beef should be €5 or more a kilo .Anything less just a joke.

Yea Joe went through some of the perks for a sheep and suckler farmer at a meeting lately and they were considerable too. the splinter groups are but one trick ponies with an impossible quest.
Yes, maybe they shouldn't have been in Charleville yesterday but they were also in Brussels yesterday too as well as marking numerous other issues