Interesting Maps

Brief_Lives

So the colours on the map respond to the capture on the xy map... I count 7 captures, but only 5 colours.

but it's solid science.

Evade

There's black, navy, dark blue, blue, light blue, yellow, and red. The black and navy are very similar.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725185#Comment_120725185

5 shades of blue-navy, yellow and red.

The science is more complicated. It works on averages and makes no consideration of other costs disparities.

Brief_Lives

my "science is solid" comment is related to the captures that they "grabbed".. as for where the numbers come from.. thats a whole other world not even touched up on in the original infograph.

Brief_Lives

also, I would have split up the "dark and blues" colours into other colurs. clearly my eyesight and laptop don't agree with it.

retalivity

Distribution of scottish gaelic speakers in Canada circa 1850, including the only placename outside Ireland with an indigenous Irish/gaelic name, talamh an eisc.

Cant seem to find a similar map for irish gaelic speakers, most of them were in Newfoundland or Cape Breton, where there are small revival gaeltachtí today

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725292#Comment_120725292

The Choropleth map is not great. It shows the disposable income of the inhabitants. A simple colour range with 6 divisions would have been better, as you eye is drawn to the yellow and red.

The clusters though are worthwhile information on their own, even without the map.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724961#Comment_120724961

wow, Derry must be in a rough state

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725301#Comment_120725301

This is interesting, but I take issue with

“the only placename outside Ireland with an indigenous Irish/gaelic name, talamh an eisc.”

My wife’s friend lives in a place called Inniscara which is in Ennismore Ontario. I believe both qualify as Irish. Even the most strick gaelgoerí would accept Inniscara I think.

There are many more around there that would qualify imo.

Have a look around this area:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/osuzbCDZFTQUvMUU6?g_st=ic

yagan

What confuses me with Irish/English naming is that sometimes theres two different meanings, like Washington Street in cork is actually the road of the yellow horse in its Irish form.

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725441#Comment_120725441

agreed

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725269#Comment_120725269

They'll shaft you every time...

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725792#Comment_120725792

Sráid an Chapaill Bhuí is actually Grand Parade. The name comes from the statue of George II on horseback which was originally placed on Tuckey Bridge, between what are now Tuckey Street and Oliver Plunkett Street before Grand Parade existed - at the time it was a canal from the River Lee to Daunt Square. The canal was filled in over time to create a wide boulevard - the "Grand Parade".

http://english18thcenturyportraitsculpture.blogspot.com/2016/08/equestrian-statue-of-george-ii-by-john_3.html?m=1

The placename in Irish and in English can often have completely different origins rather than being literal translations of each other. Both tell a different part of the history of a location.

cdeb

Yep - Dublin/Baile Átha Cliath is the obvious one.

So Dubh Linn was the Vikings starting a new city and naming it after a black pool (now under Dublin Castle I think?), but in Norwegian syntax (as "black pool" in Irish is an linn dubh, so the city should be Lindub, not Dublin)

But before that, there was a settlement at a crossing point on the Slí Chualann, a main route down the east of the country. So Áth Cliath - hurdle ford - after the fording point across the Liffey slightly west of Capel Street I think.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726106#Comment_120726106

So present day Dublin is (amongst others) a conurbation of the ancient Viking and Gaelic settlements of Dubh Linn and Baile Átha Cliath, about 300 metres apart.

Charles Babbage

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725469#Comment_120725469

Not so much a rough state nowadays, as its population is growing less quikcly than everywhere else and so less pressure on housing.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726149#Comment_120726149

You can throw in another viking settlement of Leixlip just across the Kildare border, which is «Leim an Bhradain» in Gaelige. The Irish name is a direct translation of the Norse name «Laks lep» which means «Salmons Leap», where the English name Leixlip is just a retooling of the Norse name.

retalivity

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725757#Comment_120725757

Theres a ton of places all over rural ontario with Irish names, but named after the homes towns or areas of the original settlers. Look at this area, you have a donegal, newry, tralee and listowel, which are all indigenously Irish, but not named so due to the local geography - Donegal ON does not have a "fort of the foreigners", etc. There is an Inniscara in Cork I think, which may be the source of ennismore.

Talamh an E.isc is different, in that it had the Irish name "land of fish" from early settlers, was not a direct copy of somewhere in Ireland, and has persisted through time. The scottish gaelic for it is "Eilean a' Trosg", or island of cod.

Canada didnt have much imagination with the placenames!

magicbastarder

the canadians also showed a distinct lack of imagination with some of their town names, to be fair. there's a stretch of road north of vancouver which boasts town names including 70 mile house, 93 mile, 100 mile house, 105 mile house, 108 mile ranch, 111 mile house, 114 mile house, 122 mile house, 127 mile house, 141 mile house, and 150 mile house.

Victor

^^^ Probably named for 19th century (if they are that old) coach stops.

magicbastarder

yeah, that'd be my assumption too.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726234#Comment_120726234

Waterford and Wexford.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726461#Comment_120726461

We’ll have to agree to disagree. Ennismore is so named because there’s a big lake and Inniscara is definitely on a friendly lake 😀.

But the naming around there is gas. Peterborough ON was entirely founded by Irish people. The lad in charge, Peter Robinson, managed to get a charitable donation for everyone to start a farm, including a log cabin and enough seed to feed themselves.

Victor

On the north-south cost of living:

https://twitter.com/peterdonaghy/status/1669426414855106561

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120726907#Comment_120726907

If Ennismore is "so named because there's a big lake", then it was named by people who don't speak much Irish.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120721194#Comment_120721194

You miss the point. It's not about "official names". Lots of towns have different names in different languages, and those names are used by speakers of those languages. So, in Paris, at the Gare du Lyon, from where the train to Vence leaves, the sign on the platform will read "Venise" rather than "Venezia". And at the other end of the journey, when the train starts its return journey, the sign at the platform reads "Parigi" rather than "Paris".

It follows from this that, where more than one language is used within the one country, then more than one name may well be used for towns within that country. That doesn't mean that the town has two "official names".

magicbastarder

I thought we had 'official' names for towns, as in set down in law? E.g. the fuss about Londondingle. And I've seen lists of what I recall were official names of towns and townlands as gaeilge.

Victor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120732770#Comment_120732770

Just because there are official names doesn't mean that some people don't object.

Peregrinus

Practice varies from country to country. Most towns, counties, etc that have any local government significance are established by law, and the law has to refer to them by some name. So the law won't say something like "the name of the town is Magicbastardville; may those who use any other name perish in eternal fire!" but it will say something like "the town of Magicbastardville includes the area delineated in red in the map attached to this order". So Magicbastardville has an "official name" in the sense that there are official documents that refer to it by that name. And if official documents are drawn up in more than one language, as will often be the case in multilingual countries, then it can be said that it has more than one official name. But there's nothing to stop anybody calling the town anything they like. Presumably when what was then Dunleary got renamed as Kingstown in 1821, for some time after that lots of people continued out of habit, or because they objected to the name-change, to call it Dunleary. And something similar happenedd when it was renamed Dún Laoghaire in 1920.

Derry is an interesting case. The royal charter which established it as a city called it "Londonderry", but the inhabitants always called it "Derry" unless they wanted to Make A Point. Most people who habitually called it Londonderry weren't from there; they were from somewhere else. Officially renaming the city would require a Humble Petition to His Majesty to grant a new royal charter, which some nationalist politicians would be reluctant or embarrassed to do. So in fact the city has never been formally renamed. Instead, the local government district (which is much larger than just the city) was renamed by its Council; that didn't require any petitions or royal charters. That automatically led to the Council itself being renamed. There has since been a marger with the adjacent local government district, so now we have the Derry and Strabane District, administered by the Derry and Strabane District Council.

As for lists of names as Gaeilge, there is a body called an Coiste Logainmneacha (the Placenames Commission) whose function it is to research and standardise placenames in Irish for official purposes. The need arose partly because the Irish language placenames of some places were lost or disputed, but mainly because several alternative names, or alternative spellings of the same name, were current, and it was desired that official bodies - the Ordnance Survey, the Land Registry, an Post, rating authorities, planning authorities, etc should be consistent in the names they used to avoid confusion. So in that sense, yeah, there are official Irish language names of places in Ireland, but they are "official" only in the sense that they are the names used by officials. You and I can use whatever names we like.

magicbastarder

thank you - the reference to londondingle was a reference to the dingle/an daingean controversy rather than the derry/londonderry one!

a gaelgoir friend told me many gaelgoirs adopted londondingle as a nickname for the town after o'cuiv made that decision.