Jim Gavin

spakman

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

He’d have certainly knocked the superstar mentality out of Mayo.

But I thought Dublin were the greatest team of all time led by the greatest manager of all time?
So how did big-headed, no-forwards, own-goal-scoring Mayo manage to only lose 2 finals to them by a point, once after a replay?
If Gavin would have won an AI with Mayo, that means they had underperformed in those finals, which must mean they're actually a better team than the Dubs?

spakman

spakman wrote: »

But I thought Dublin were the greatest team of all time led by the greatest manager of all time?
So how did big-headed, no-forwards, own-goal-scoring Mayo manage to only lose 2 finals to them by a point, once after a replay

Lose is the only relevant word there.

spakman

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Lose is the only relevant word there.

But as I said, if you're saying Gavin would have won an AI with Mayo, that means they underperformed in those finals, which must mean they're actually a better team than the Dubs? If the manager is the only difference, then the Mayo players must be better.

gaffer91

Fann Linn wrote: »

Going by your methodology Dessie Farrell will continue with another 5 All Irelands so.

I do expect Dublin to win the next five All-Ireland's for sure. Maybe if there is some freak result one year they may only win four, (very low possibility of this, winning the next five is much more likely) but definitely no less than that.

blanch152 wrote: »

What a silly begrudging post.

A few things to consider. If Jim Gavin had managed Mayo for the last seven years, would that team have won zero All-Ireland’s? If he was managing Kerry this year, would the extra man have counted in the first game?

Actually, no need to answer, it is clearly obvious.

He is the best manager the game has seen, bar none. It is to his credit that we won’t see him following the money around the place managing other counties, sucking out their resources that should be used for juvenile coaching.

There is a need to answer it because your argument is nonsense.

The point I'm making is that it's impossible to separate the other unfair inputs into Dublin's success (funding, population, de facto home advantage) from Jim Gavin's own input into it. This is pretty easy to understand.

It's impossible to judge him properly and there's no grounds for saying he is the best manager ever when you examine all the other factors that have gone into Dublin's success. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that when Jim Gavin is given a team with every unfair advantage under the sun, he can be successful. That doesn't mean he'd be as successful without these advantages. Pointing this out isn't begrudgery, it's just doing a fair and impartial analysis.

ProudDUB

Jim Gavin is "given" a team with all kinds of advantages....like we were Leitrim in 2012, but Jim Gavin wrote a letter to Santa & hey presto, all these "advantages" that were never there before, magically appeared underneath the Christmas tree?

Dublin have always:

- had a massive population
- had a conveyor belt of lads wanting to play football over hurling
- played their games in Croke Park in the summer
- had sponsors with very deep pockets
- had players who live, work & study in Dublin & don't have 4 hour commutes to training
- the best doctors, physios, nutritionists etc etc on their doorstep

Yet Dublin only won one All Ireland in the nearly 30 years between the last All Ireland of the Heffo era & Pat Gilroy's win in 2011.

Funny that, eh?

ArielAtom

Congrats Jim, well deserved.

gaffer91

ProudDUB wrote: »

Jim Gavin is "given" a team with all kinds of advantages....like we were Leitrim in 2012, but Jim Gavin wrote a letter to Santa & hey presto, all these "advantages" that were never there before, magically appeared underneath the Christmas tree?

Dublin have always:

- had a massive population
- had a conveyor belt of lads wanting to play football over hurling
- played their games in Croke Park in the summer
- had sponsors with very deep pockets
- had players who live, work & study in Dublin & don't have 4 hour commutes to training
- the best doctors, physios, nutritionists etc etc on their doorstep

Yet Dublin only won one All Ireland in the nearly 30 years between the last All Ireland of the Heffo era & Pat Gilroy's win in 2011.

Funny that, eh?

Thanks for acknowledging all those advantages above- very gracious of you. The massive funding discrepancy only started in the mid 2000s.

Just because a team hasn't always taken full benefit of their many unfair advantages doesn't mean those weren't still advantages. The population, home advantage etc were always unfair even if they didn't win every year (still the second most successful county I might add).

So this proves my point- Gavin can succeed when given a team with the unfair advantages you have listed. That's all his success proves. It's not generalisable in any way, as no other team has the unfair advantages that Dublin do.

You can say that Gavin is a superior manager to Pat Gilroy as Gilroy wasn't as successful when given much the same advantages (although the funding flowing towards Dublin when Gilroy was in charge had been doing so for a shorter period of time when compared with Gavin so doing a side by side comparison is still difficult).

Beechwoodspark

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

He’d have certainly knocked the superstar mentality out of Mayo.

Doubt it considering how highly he regards the dubs setup. He’d have made mayo even more self regarding if anything.

ITman88

gaffer91 wrote: »

I do expect Dublin to win the next five All-Ireland's for sure. Maybe if there is some freak result one year they may only win four, (very low possibility of this, winning the next five is much more likely) but definitely no less than that.

I fully agree with this, in 5 years time when the Dubs have done another 4 or 5 in a row with Farrell, people will realize Gavin was no more exceptional than any other AI winning managers

blanch152

spakman wrote: »

But I thought Dublin were the greatest team of all time led by the greatest manager of all time?
So how did big-headed, no-forwards, own-goal-scoring Mayo manage to only lose 2 finals to them by a point, once after a replay?
If Gavin would have won an AI with Mayo, that means they had underperformed in those finals, which must mean they're actually a better team than the Dubs?

Because the Mayo team has a losers mentality, and need a decent manager to change that mentality.

We all know brilliant players who couldn't do it on a bigger stage than their own back garden, Mayo had their fill of that type.

spakman

blanch152 wrote: »

Because the Mayo team has a losers mentality, and need a decent manager to change that mentality.

We all know brilliant players who couldn't do it on a bigger stage than their own back garden, Mayo had their fill of that type.

Sure Dublin played every major match in their own back garden!!

beggars_bush

spakman wrote: »

Sure Dublin played every major match in their own back garden!!

Sssssh
Don't state facts

Dick_Swiveller

Tee hee, I see the lads still haven't got over Dublin winning the 5 in a row. Chin up, gents. There's always next year!

Beechwoodspark

beggars_bush wrote: »

Sssssh
Don't state facts

Certain issues regarding dublin GAA are not supposed to be mentioned. Frowned upon even.

ArielAtom

https://youtu.be/ayQmMfCJm0Q

The man himself. Pure class.

blanch152

ArielAtom wrote: »

https://youtu.be/ayQmMfCJm0Q

The man himself. Pure class.

Brilliant interview, a wonderful man.

dobman88

One of the best things I've heard about Gavin since his retirement is from Eamon Fitzmaurice.

When Jim would be having a verbal spat with someone on the line, like Liam Hasset from Kerry, he would be looking out onto the pitch so it was like he was giving instructions to a player and the crowd, media, pundits etc would never know he was a bit rattled or getting stuck into things. Always just a presence of calm. Absolutely brilliant.

Beechwoodspark

dobman88 wrote: »

One of the best things I've heard about Gavin since his retirement is from Eamon Fitzmaurice.

When Jim would be having a verbal spat with someone on the line, like Liam Hasset from Kerry, he would be looking out onto the pitch so it was like he was giving instructions to a player and the crowd, media, pundits etc would never know he was a bit rattled or getting stuck into things. Always just a presence of calm. Absolutely brilliant.

Must be missing something but fail to see why that immature carry on from him was “brilliant.”

It just highlights how obsessed he was with his carefully presented media image. Wouldn’t do to let Marty and RTÉ see the “real” Jim. Much better to keep an act up.

also it’s quite ignorant and rude to be having a conversation with someone while looking in a different direction to them and not acknowledging their presence.

He’d be a brave man to do that to certain other gaa figures.

But I know how it is around here. Saint Jim can do no wrong.

ShyMets

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Must be missing something but fail to see why that immature carry on from him was “brilliant.”

It just highlights how obsessed he was with his carefully presented media image. Wouldn’t do to let Marty and RTÉ see the “real” Jim. Much better to keep an act up.

also it’s quite ignorant and rude to be having a conversation with someone while looking in a different direction to them and not acknowledging their presence.

He’d be a brave man to do that to certain other gaa figures.

But I know how it is around here. Saint Jim can do no wrong.

I know I can be a slow on the uptake. But I just cant shift this nagging feeling that you don't like Jim Gavin.

dobman88

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Must be missing something but fail to see why that immature carry on from him was “brilliant.”

It just highlights how obsessed he was with his carefully presented media image. Wouldn’t do to let Marty and RTÉ see the “real” Jim. Much better to keep an act up.

also it’s quite ignorant and rude to be having a conversation with someone while looking in a different direction to them and not acknowledging their presence.

He’d be a brave man to do that to certain other gaa figures.

But I know how it is around here. Saint Jim can do no wrong.

:pac:

I'm from Kerry and more than happy to see him gone. I'm just able to look at things objectively and tip my hat to greatness. You're absolutely obsessed with him. Must be hard living with that much hatred in you.

Beechwoodspark

Ah thank you kindly for your concerns dobman88.

I’ve no hatred against him or anyone really

I have contacts in the Leinster scene (players Coaches and admin/rep levels) and I think I know a little more than the average joe on what goes on and that informs my opinion.

I don’t buy into the Saint Jim or genius Jim tags.

ArielAtom

It's always great to hear I have contacts in and I know personally lads who know lads etc. Some of these posters are not even members of the association!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slattsy

Thats the great thing about the internet, you can live a second, fantasy life. He probably has a pet unicorn.

flasher0030

Some man. I have the greatest respect for what he has achieved. I have thrown the auld funding issue into the mix a few times here as well. But that shouldn't take away from what Jim Gavin has achieved. Managing a team is not just picking a team and standing on the sideline for an hour and a half issuing instructions. The amount of actual management time that is needed at that level is phenomenal. To do it one year is fantastic, a second year would be unreal, but then to come back and do it 3 more years in a row. I think its an amazing feat. People complaining about his demeanor is just pure Irish begrudgery. Christ, I would love that coolness and edge at work. I'd prefer that to someone like Davy Fitz spouting about his passion and how he loves the team and so proud of them etc.
And it's not a case of win at all means. Dublin (IMO) play the most entertaining style in the game. Watching O'Callaghan and Mannion in full flow is worth any entrance fee to Croke Park.
I'm from Mayo - we'd gladly take Jim Gavin any day. At the moment, we have a fundraiser sueing our county Board and them countersuing if what I have been led to believe is correct. Someone with a JG personality would go some way towards stoping out that crap.

spakman

flasher0030 wrote: »

Some man. I have the greatest respect for what he has achieved. I have thrown the auld funding issue into the mix a few times here as well. But that shouldn't take away from what Jim Gavin has achieved. Managing a team is not just picking a team and standing on the sideline for an hour and a half issuing instructions. The amount of actual management time that is needed at that level is phenomenal. To do it one year is fantastic, a second year would be unreal, but then to come back and do it 3 more years in a row. I think its an amazing feat. People complaining about his demeanor is just pure Irish begrudgery. Christ, I would love that coolness and edge at work. I'd prefer that to someone like Davy Fitz spouting about his passion and how he loves the team and so proud of them etc.
And it's not a case of win at all means. Dublin (IMO) play the most entertaining style in the game. Watching O'Callaghan and Mannion in full flow is worth any entrance fee to Croke Park.
I'm from Mayo - we'd gladly take Jim Gavin any day. At the moment, we have a fundraiser sueing our county Board and them countersuing if what I have been led to believe is correct. Someone with a JG personality would go some way towards stoping out that crap.

The issue between the CB and Tim O'Leary is exactly that, it has nothing to do with the senior team or management. So having Jim Gavin as manager would make zero difference.
Having Liam Moffatt as chairman of the CB hopefully will make a difference however, and from the conciliatory tone of Tim O'Leary's statement yesterday, I think that debacle may be about to end.

Anyway, that's sidetracking the canonisation of St Jim of Round Towers.

ArielAtom

spakman wrote: »

The issue between the CB and Tim O'Leary is exactly that, it has nothing to do with the senior team or management. So having Jim Gavin as manager would make zero difference.
Having Liam Moffatt as chairman of the CB hopefully will make a difference however, and from the conciliatory tone of Tim O'Leary's statement yesterday, I think that debacle may be about to end.

Anyway, that's sidetracking the canonisation of St Jim of Round Towers.

Get it right, he's a Boden man now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But you are correct with your St Jim naming. Thanks for your support in his canonisation bid.

ProudDUB

ArielAtom wrote: »

Get it right, he's a Boden man now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But you are correct with your St Jim naming. Thanks for your support in his canonisation bid.

Manager of the first ever 5 in a row, Free man of the City, recently conferred as Dr Jim Gavin, RTE Manager of the Year.....

Canonization is about the only thing left...oh, and Chief Brexit negotiator.

gaffer91

flasher0030 wrote: »

Some man. I have the greatest respect for what he has achieved. I have thrown the auld funding issue into the mix a few times here as well. But that shouldn't take away from what Jim Gavin has achieved. Managing a team is not just picking a team and standing on the sideline for an hour and a half issuing instructions. The amount of actual management time that is needed at that level is phenomenal. To do it one year is fantastic, a second year would be unreal, but then to come back and do it 3 more years in a row. I think its an amazing feat. People complaining about his demeanor is just pure Irish begrudgery. Christ, I would love that coolness and edge at work.

The funding (and other advantages) absolutely should take away from his achievements as it is certain he wouldn't have been as successful without these unfair leg-ups.

Other management teams spend an equivalent amount of time preparing/ managing their teams but they have no hope of achieving an equivalent level of success because of Dublin's advantages. Yours is a similar argument to how Dubs claim their players/ volunteers work so hard- this is the case for every other county as well.

I actually agree about the demeanour- I've no problem with it and I think the general consensus, which I agree with, is that he is a nice man. I've no animosity towards the man himself, the unfair state of affairs with Dublin having all the advantages can't be attributed to him at all. But it certainly does detract from his achievements.

Strumms

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Ah thank you kindly for your concerns dobman88.

I’ve no hatred against him or anyone really

I have contacts in the Leinster scene (players Coaches and admin/rep levels) and I think I know a little more than the average joe on what goes on and that informs my opinion.

I don’t buy into the Saint Jim or genius Jim tags.

I don’t think anyone is forcing you or so much as asking you to buy into any tag.

He has won as a player and manager.... 23 Inter County Senior titles... between AI, Leinster and Leagues.

That’s a staggering total and achievement in any field of sport.

The man is not yet 50. 48/49 I believe.

He is a winner, a guy driven with intelligence, desire, hard work and a love of his county and the sport.

He has a family, career... but

5 in a row.

6 in total

As Dublin Senior Inter County manager. Some man.

Beechwoodspark

What people are either willfully ignoring or are genuinely not aware of is that Jim had every card in the pack stacked in his favour with Dublin and that’s putting it mildly

He gets no praise for doing something with such ludicrous advantages on his side.