Jim Gavin

Soulsun

Philly and Cluxton next to hang up their boots?

I heard he found out how they put the figs in the fog rolls and had to go before they caught up with him.

Poor_old_gill

I heard he found out that winning 6 out of 7 all Irelands is actually quite tiring and that he has had to, an extent, put his family’s life on hold for his tenure.

bucketybuck

blanch152 wrote: »

I disagree.

You go back to autumn 2012, and there were a lot of counties - Mayo, Donegal, Cork, Kerry and Tyrone, even Monaghan - who would have all thought that they had a chance of winning the 2013 All-Ireland championship.

They might all have thought they had a chance of winning in 2013, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were great teams. Because they weren't and everybody knows it.

That isn't to denigrate what Dublin achieved, not at all. But the only dreams Dublin crushed over the next 6 years were Mayo's, while the likes of Cork, Kerry and Tyrone knew full well they were in a slump relative to previous generations.

Gael85

Jim Gavin Record as Dublin senior manager

6 All Irelands
5 National Leagues
7 Leinsters
Never lost championship game to Leinster/Connacht/Munster opposition
Never lost championship/league game to Leinster/Connacht opposition


Games Won Draw Lost Goals Points Total Goals Points Total
Championship Championship 2019 9 8 1 0 19 172 229 3 110 119
Championship 2018 8 8 0 0 17 169 220 6 105 123
Championship 2017 6 6 0 0 10 124 154 2 73 79
Championship 2016 7 6 1 0 8 122 146 6 84 102
Championship 2015 7 6 1 0 18 118 172 4 83 95
Championship 2014 5 4 0 1 9 105 132 5 63 78
Championship 2013 6 6 0 0 13 99 138 5 71 86
48 44 3 1 94 909 1191 31 589 682

Games Won Draw Lost Goals Points Total Goals Points Total
League League 2019 7 4 0 3 9 95 122 6 81 99
League 2018 8 6 1 1 8 125 149 5 98 113
League 2017 8 4 3 1 7 125 146 4 92 104
League 2016 9 9 0 0 11 127 160 4 99 111
League 2015 9 6 1 2 8 131 155 4 101 113
League 2014 9 6 1 2 14 138 180 11 117 150
League 2013 9 7 1 1 10 139 169 5 106 121
59 42 7 10 67 880 1081 39 694 811

107 86 10 11 161 1789 2272 70 1283 1493

gaffer91

@Gael85- People are aware of his record and I agree that at first glance it looks excellent.

When you go past the surface and learn that Gavin and Dublin have been greatly helped by the funding, the de facto home advantage etc, it is obvious to any neutral observer that it puts a giant asterisk beside these achievements.

Would he have been as successful without these advantages? Almost certainly not.

He can really test himself by moving to a different county without these advantages and seeing how he gets on. Dublin will still win the All Ireland so that shouldn't be the barometer. If he could do something like bring a team like Fermanagh to an All Ireland final, that would be more impressive than this current achievement, as there wouldn't be the unfairness tainting this success as that there is for his success with Dublin.

Hammer Archer

Next person who thinks they're the big man/woman by throwing out vague "I heard something but I can't say what" statements gets a ban.

Nidgeweasel

gaffer91 wrote: »

If he could do something like bring a team like Fermanagh to an All Ireland final, that would be more impressive than this current achievement, as there wouldn't be the unfairness tainting this success as that there is for his success with Dublin.

:rolleyes:

gaffer91

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Not sure what point you're trying to make.

We're making qualitative judgements about what would be greater achievements compared to what Gavin has done with Dublin. This is just one example of such a judgement, there are many more besides. Reaching an All Ireland final is the only realistic goal for most counties given how skewed things are in favour of Dublin.

You'd take a team with no financial doping, no de facto home advantage for consequential games, including finals and semi-finals, no huge population and bring them as far as is feasible. There would be no asterisk besides the achievement hence why it would be look superior to Gavin's current record.

Nidgeweasel

gaffer91 wrote: »

Not sure what point you're trying to make.

We're making qualitative judgements about what would be greater achievements compared to what Gavin has done with Dublin. This is just one example of such a judgement, there are many more besides. Reaching an All Ireland final is the only realistic goal for most counties given how skewed things are in favour of Dublin.

You'd take a team with no financial doping, no de facto home advantage for consequential games, including finals and semi-finals, no huge population and bring them as far as is feasible. There would be no asterisk besides the achievement hence why it would be look superior to Gavin's current record.

You're being deliberately belligerent.

The history books don't have asterisks - just the number All Ireland medals. Gavin has won 5 in a row and 6 in total as senior manager and 3 at U-21.

That Gavin has to go to a lesser county so somehow justify that record is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.

And not withstanding the churlishness of your entire suggestion. Why would anybody want to go to another county? Gavin is a dub and has been involved in Dublin Football all his life. Yet he should now go to somewhere he has no emotional attachment with to try and prove himself . Complete and utter nonsense.

ah he might have won 6 all irelands - but would he win it with Fermanagh? :rolleyes: Grow up.

munster87

Even Rory Gallagher couldn’t win it with Fermanagh sure

Beechwoodspark

gaffer91 wrote: »

@Gael85- People are aware of his record and I agree that at first glance it looks excellent.

When you go past the surface and learn that Gavin and Dublin have been greatly helped by the funding, the de facto home advantage etc, it is obvious to any neutral observer that it puts a giant asterisk beside these achievements.

Would he have been as successful without these advantages? Almost certainly not.

He can really test himself by moving to a different county without these advantages and seeing how he gets on. Dublin will still win the All Ireland so that shouldn't be the barometer. If he could do something like bring a team like Fermanagh to an All Ireland final, that would be more impressive than this current achievement, as there wouldn't be the unfairness tainting this success as that there is for his success with Dublin.

Agree.

Way too many inherent and completely ludicrous advantages for dublin in the Gavin years.

To put it mildly it tarnishes the so called success. Obscene money, home advantage, the absolutely crazy population advantage that dublin has.

Let’s be honest. Big asterisk beside him until he does it with a “average” county.

I suspect he won’t ever take up that challenge.

Call me a football romantic But I hope against all hope that he proves me wrong.

gaffer91

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

You're being deliberately belligerent.

The history books don't have asterisks - just the number All Ireland medals. Gavin has won 5 in a row and 6 in total as senior manager and 3 at U-21.

That Gavin has to go to a lesser county so somehow justify that record is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.

I'm not being belligerent at all. This thread is discussing him resigning as Dublin manager and the legacy he leaves behind.

Gavin has shown that with a team with massive funding advantages, de facto home advantage, a population that dwarfs the average, he can be successful. That shows he can win with those advantages but otherwise doesn't prove much. Many others would have been as successful when given such a stacked deck.

You claiming that this success should be given as much respect as someone achieving success without ludicrous advantages is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

And not withstanding the churlishness of your entire suggestion. Why would anybody want to go to another county? Gavin is a dub and has been involved in Dublin Football all his life. Yet he should now go to somewhere he has no emotional attachment with to try and prove himself . Complete and utter nonsense.

Many managers go to other counties? For love of the game, because they're living there, for a new challenge and many other reasons besides.

He doesn't have to prove himself to anonymous internet posters of course. But it's very true that we can't draw any real conclusions from his time in Dublin other than they he can be successful when completely advantaged compared to every other county. This doesn't mean he will be successful without these advantages.

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

ah he might have won 6 all irelands - but would he win it with Fermanagh? :rolleyes: Grow up.

Grow up yourself and recognise that he and Dublin have been unfairly advantaged.

Fermanagh is just an example. Other examples would be say, winning a Munster with Waterford, winning Connacht with London etc. There are literally countless other scenarios someone could think up besides these. The reason these successes can be deemed superior is because they wouldn't be coming from an unfairly advantaged position, like Gavin's to date have. Hope that helps.

I don't use winning an All-Ireland as a barometer because the stacked deck will of course also apply to Gavin's successor- Dublin will continue to dominate without him because the advantages continue.

Nidgeweasel

gaffer91 wrote: »

I'm not being belligerent at all. This thread is discussing him resigning as Dublin manager and the legacy he leaves behind.

Gavin has shown that with a team with massive funding advantages, de facto home advantage, a population that dwarfs the average, he can be successful. That shows he can win with those advantages but otherwise doesn't prove much. Many others would have been as successful when given such a stacked deck.

You claiming that this success should be given as much respect as someone achieving success without ludicrous advantages is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.



Many managers go to other counties? For love of the game, because they're living there, for a new challenge and many other reasons besides.

He doesn't have to prove himself to anonymous internet posters of course. But it's very true that we can't draw any real conclusions from his time in Dublin other than they he can be successful when completely advantaged compared to every other county. This doesn't mean he will be successful without these advantages.



Grow up yourself and recognise that he and Dublin have been unfairly advantaged.

Fermanagh is just an example. Other examples would be say, winning a Munster with Waterford, winning Connacht with London etc. There are literally countless other scenarios someone could think up besides these. The reason these successes can be deemed superior is because they wouldn't be coming from an unfairly advantaged position, like Gavin's to date have. Hope that helps.

I don't use winning an All-Ireland as a barometer because the stacked deck will of course also apply to Gavin's successor- Dublin will continue to dominate without him because the advantages continue.

Wow.

I'm starting to see why Dublin posters get frustrated having to see posters pontificating like this.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see can Gavin win an all ireland with Leitrim before deciding if he's any use. Sin é.

Beechwoodspark

Jim G has won with every card in the pack stacked in his favour and that’s being polite.

He needs to show he can do it someplace else before he makes my top 10.

.G.

Dessie Farrell confirmed as new boss.

dunnerc

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Jim G has won with every card in the pack stacked in his favour and that’s being polite.

He needs to show he can do it someplace else before he makes my top 10.

As if he would give a monkeys about making your top 10 :rolleyes:

dobman88

riemann wrote: »

Oh look Mr. TOUGH GUY laying down the law.

Shutting down discussion.

Although it must be difficult to talk when you have your mouth full.

:pac: bye bye

gaffer91

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

Wow.

I'm starting to see why Dublin posters get frustrated having to see posters pontificating like this.

Not pontificating, just stating facts. Sometime they get frustrated when these facts are mentioned though, it's true. Totally (and justifiably) takes the gloss off this Dublin team's achievements and instead places a big asterisk beside them.

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see can Gavin win an all ireland with Leitrim before deciding if he's any use. Sin é.

We'll just have to see if he can win games and titles with a team that isn't unfairly advantaged compared to every other one. Why are you so keen to ignore the platform that his successes have been built off?

LoughNeagh2017

Jim played in my townland in 2008, I never knew who he was at that time though. My townlands field was one of the training grounds for the Derry early 90s team. The parish has 2 clubs because during WW2 the US army were based here and this caused problems for the players from this side of the parish to get to training so they set up another club in 1944, this new club caused this side of the parish to build it's own separate culture in a sense.
https://imgur.com/1DxlBme

Beechwoodspark

If they give him on award on the RTÉ awards tonight there will be open mutiny

munster87

Hope he gets young sportsperson just for you!

Fann Linn

gaffer91 wrote: »

Not pontificating, just stating facts. Sometime they get frustrated when these facts are mentioned though, it's true. Totally (and justifiably) takes the gloss off this Dublin team's achievements and instead places a big asterisk beside them.



We'll just have to see if he can win games and titles with a team that isn't unfairly advantaged compared to every other one. Why are you so keen to ignore the platform that his successes have been built off?

Going by your methodology Dessie Farrell will continue with another 5 All Irelands so.

Beechwoodspark

munster87 wrote: »

Hope he gets young sportsperson just for you!

Why would he get young sportsperson? He’s pushing on for 50. Are you sure you are talking about the same guy.

The more I look at it the more I think Gavin couldn’t be number one just yet. I’m a huge fan of his and a huge admirer of Dublin (anyone who says anything about money hasn’t watched any football in years) but when you look at what Micko did with bringing Kildare to an All Ireland final and winning Leinster with Laois after his great stint then it’s impossible to look past him. He even had Wicklow playing football in August one year. There may be something to be said for doing something with another county, not that I’d say Jim Gavin cares one iota about his legacy in that way, he’s a humble man.

ReginaldSmythV

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

The more I look at it the more I think Gavin couldn’t be number one just yet. I’m a huge fan of his and a huge admirer of Dublin (anyone who says anything about money hasn’t watched any football in years) but when you look at what Micko did with bringing Kildare to an All Ireland final and winning Leinster with Laois after his great stint then it’s impossible to look past him. He even had Wicklow playing football in August one year. There may be something to be said for doing something with another county, not that I’d say Jim Gavin cares one iota about his legacy in that way, he’s a humble man.

That's why Gavin is going to another county

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's why Gavin is going to another county

Jim Gavin will do his day job now and that’s it. He won’t be one bit worried about whether he’s best ever or tenth best ever.

Fann Linn

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

If they give him on award on the RTÉ awards tonight there will be open mutiny

Time for mutiny X 2!

blanch152

gaffer91 wrote: »

I'm not being belligerent at all. This thread is discussing him resigning as Dublin manager and the legacy he leaves behind.

Gavin has shown that with a team with massive funding advantages, de facto home advantage, a population that dwarfs the average, he can be successful. That shows he can win with those advantages but otherwise doesn't prove much. Many others would have been as successful when given such a stacked deck.

You claiming that this success should be given as much respect as someone achieving success without ludicrous advantages is probably one of the most embarrassing things I have ever heard.



Many managers go to other counties? For love of the game, because they're living there, for a new challenge and many other reasons besides.

He doesn't have to prove himself to anonymous internet posters of course. But it's very true that we can't draw any real conclusions from his time in Dublin other than they he can be successful when completely advantaged compared to every other county. This doesn't mean he will be successful without these advantages.



Grow up yourself and recognise that he and Dublin have been unfairly advantaged.

Fermanagh is just an example. Other examples would be say, winning a Munster with Waterford, winning Connacht with London etc. There are literally countless other scenarios someone could think up besides these. The reason these successes can be deemed superior is because they wouldn't be coming from an unfairly advantaged position, like Gavin's to date have. Hope that helps.

I don't use winning an All-Ireland as a barometer because the stacked deck will of course also apply to Gavin's successor- Dublin will continue to dominate without him because the advantages continue.

What a silly begrudging post.

A few things to consider. If Jim Gavin had managed Mayo for the last seven years, would that team have won zero All-Ireland’s? If he was managing Kerry this year, would the extra man have counted in the first game?

Actually, no need to answer, it is clearly obvious.

He is the best manager the game has seen, bar none. It is to his credit that we won’t see him following the money around the place managing other counties, sucking out their resources that should be used for juvenile coaching.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

What a silly begrudging post.

A few things to consider. If Jim Gavin had managed Mayo for the last seven years, would that team have won zero All-Ireland’s? If he was managing Kerry this year, would the extra man have counted in the first game?

Actually, no need to answer, it is clearly obvious.

He is the best manager the game has seen, bar none. It is to his credit that we won’t see him following the money around the place managing other counties, sucking out their resources that should be used for juvenile coaching.

He’d have certainly knocked the superstar mentality out of Mayo.