Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

magicbastarder

if i was on a busy N road, i would pull in occasionally if traffic built up behind me. yes, there might be opportunities for passing but if traffic is building up behind you faster than it's getting a chance to pass, of course i'll pull in occasionally when suits to let it past. and yes, you can take the primary position also, as cletus said, combine the two strategies.

i don't generally find myself on roads quite like the one LBSG mentioned, but i do find myself on some where i do pull in - generally not for cars, but for larger vehicles which don't have the acceleration to pass as easily.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118907155#Comment_118907155

To your point and Cletus, absolutely, both ways work and to each their own.

I have just stopped caring about the inconvenience of others where my safety is concerned.

For me the safest thing to do is to get them out from behind me as soon as possible, I don't want them there. So first opportunity I have I'll move in.

Most people you encounter on the road are grand but all it takes is one person to become impatient and it's everyones day ruined or worse.

Wildly Boaring

Yeah in fairness I've driven that bit of n72 plenty, I'd get very little enjoyment out of a cycle on a route like that.

However I used cycle bits of the n73 from kildollery to Mitchelstown and it's similar. Cus I lived there and it was my way home.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118907144#Comment_118907144

But only when traffic = motorists, and not when traffic = cyclists apparently.

magicbastarder

I'm sure he'd allow faster cyclists to pass?

Or; how do you conclude that he's not including himself as traffic too?

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118906780#Comment_118906780

That is classic victim blaming tbf. You might aswell say that when a house is broken into it is the home owners fault or that when someone is mugged that they are to blame for being there at that time/place whatever.

You are probably correct though with some of the blind rage I have seen on the road.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908099#Comment_118908099

I never said anything of the sort. What I said was you made a false equivalency between cycling on a road where traffic can legally drive at 80kph, and cycling in heavy urban traffic.

Given that city driving is slower, stop start in nature, and involves junctions, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings etc., the speed differential between cycling and driving is vastly reduced from what it would be in a national road.

As a result, in heavy urban traffic, I wouldn't expect either cyclists or drivers to pull over to let other traffic past.

On faster national roads, I will pull over, if I can and it's safe, and allow faster traffic to overtake me. I'd expect someone driving, say, a tractor, to do the same thing.

Have you any other strawmen or red herrings to throw in, or would you like to have a proper grown up conversation

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908099#Comment_118908099

That's not what he said, but carry on.

Rosahane

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118906908#Comment_118906908

That's a great way to ensure that Bruce in his lowered 1.4 Golf or Willie in his Scania S650 overtakes you with an inch to spare after sitting behind you for three or 4 km.

...on the other hand you might be reasonable and aware of the law and rights of other road users not to mention your own safety 🙈

magicbastarder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXPUgniLsvE

interesting to note the clip starting at 8:57; the vast majority of comments about that particular clip are critical of the driver.

DaveyDave

I'd pull in if a road had limited overtaking and traffic was building up. I don't like the idea of traffic building up behind me for extended periods as people get impatient very quickly and you know some gobshite 10 cars back would try overtake everyone. I'm on a bike for enjoyment, if I pull in to let people pass it's to make life easier for me not them, I just don't want the hassle. There's certain roads I'll avoid for convenience or safety even if they're the most direct route. It's all personal choice really. If someone wants to push on that's their decision.

magicbastarder

it's quite simple; if you're doing 30 on an 80km/h road and traffic is building up behind you, AFAIK you are legally obliged to pull in.

you can't quote 'not sacrificing my safety for the convenience of others' unless pulling in is actually endangering your safety. unless you've a monster tailwind and are going for a KOM, then all bets are off. KOMs are legally enshrined.

And it's appreciated a lot of the time, the amount of raised left hands and glances in the rvm I've seen to acknowledge me having pulled in / moved over can't be counted. Or you get the odd one who will stick the right arm out the window in the summer to wave thanks.

Even the glace back to acknowledge a car on your wheel, yeah I know you're there but no room for you to pass or me to move over helps usually.

For all that yeah you meet some fools on the road who will beep and drive up your arse or pass anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908928#Comment_118908928

As I said, I'm not stopping any overtaking manoeuvres, just dangerous ones.

If I should get a ticket for this I'll happily take it and keep doing the same thing.

Doing this has seen me go nearly 6 months with zero dangerous passes. Taking secondary position save several dangerous passes a week.

Now, if protected infrastructure or the likes of a hard shoulder are available, I'll be more than happy to use that instead but until then I'll maintain that my safety is more important to me than convenience to others.

You may not like it, some don't, but that means little in any equation that involves my personal safety while on the bike.

Since adopting this practice I've made zero apologies for it and I don't see that changing. It gets me home safe, that's all I'm concerned with.

Wildly Boaring

I take a pretty primary position myself. Maybe not the middle but left wheel track at least and if a manhole or pothole us in my way it's out I go, not in.

I rarely pull over, but if I knew a truck was back there a couple mins I'd pull in.

Pulled in once in last 2or 3 weeks. Bus stuck behind me between termonfeckin and clogherhead.

magicbastarder

You may not like it, some don't, but that means little in any equation that involves my personal safety while on the bike.

i think we're talking at cross purposes here. you're talking about taking primary position to prevent dangerous overtakes; i have no issue with that.

what i am talking about is occasionally pulling in (to a stop or near stop) to let a buildup of traffic behind, to get past. you can do both. you are not compromising your approach to safety by doing so.

pulling in to let traffic past, when safe, is most definitely not the same concept as preventing dangerous overtakes.

as per WB, it's not something i find myself doing a lot. once every couple of weeks, maybe.

De Bhál

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908844#Comment_118908844

Is that cyclist supposed to be indicating to go right, no idea what's he at...just a bare gesture and move right in front of a car.

Mundo7976

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908844#Comment_118908844

The left hook @1:20 is fcuking scary

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118906108#Comment_118906108

Weird post. I've cycled the N72. It's absolutely fine. There's a school a few hundred metres West of the point you linked. Cars are bumper to bumper there a few times a day. Most slow-moving vehicles on this road don't do a great job of "getting out of the way", because there's nowhere to go. A lot of slow-moving HGV's use it. Tractors are regularly on it.

I also don't understand what you're saying about the Clonmel-Dungarvan road. Are you suggesting that leisure cyclists should pick a meandering route with lots of stopping and starting and extra junctions, in an effort to avoid collisions with/from motorists? So: cycle on a poor road surface, with potholes etc, in the hope of NOT having a crash?

I have no problem with suggesting someone should move in if traffic is building up behind them, but if you're saying that an N road is off-limits to a bike, I disagree. And if you're saying that an R road should be off limits to a bike, I'd use much stronger language to say that I disagree.

Yours feels a bit like a victim-blaming post to be honest with you, even if that's not what you intended.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118909462#Comment_118909462

Jaysus if a cyclist had to pull in all the time to let motor traffic drive past then you'd be all day getting somewhere! :D

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908928#Comment_118908928

I don't think there is anything specific in legislation about differences in speed. Last time I looked at legislation, it was about driving in a manner that prevented other road users from overtaking (paraphrasing obviously).

My interpretation of that would be that if the oncoming traffic is preventing other road users from overtaking, I'm not not breaching any legislation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908132#Comment_118908132

He specifically said that he wouldn't pull over for faster cyclists.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118908311#Comment_118908311

What has 'differential' got to do with anything. You've come up with your mythical rule about having to pull over to let faster traffic through, but now you are weaseling out of complying with your own rule yourself, with weasel words. If you expect other people to get out of your way, it is only courtesy that you get out of their way also.

I'm a bit confused that people are finding traffic conditions where queues of 10-20 cars appear behind cyclists at the drop of a hat, but they never experience conditions where motorists are holding up cyclists in busy traffic.

magicbastarder

He specifically said that he wouldn't pull over for faster cyclists.

he 'specifically' did nothing of the sort.

consider this a mod warning - if you want to debate, don't accuse others of weasel words when you're the one being disingenuous and twisting people's words into something they didn't say.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913285#Comment_118913285

Weasel words me arse. I said that on a fast road I've no problems pulling in if there's faster traffic behind me. You were, unsurprisingly, affronted on behalf of all cycledom.

You wanted to know if I would pull over for faster cyclists when I was driving in "heavy urban traffic". I told you I don't drive in the city, I walk and use public transport. You chose to ignore this.

I said that I would expect slower traffic, such as tractors, to do the same thing, and pull over (most of whom do, at least in the rural areas I live in). You chose to ignore that.

You then attributed a statement to me that I didn't make. If you could point to where I "specifically said [I] wouldn't pull over for faster cyclists", I'd love to see it

As for me creating "mythical rules", would you ever get over yourself. Who said it was a rule? I said it's something I do.

As regards not complying with my own (non existent) rule, I explained that I see a difference between cycling on a national road, and cycling in a city. You're choosing to either ignore what I said, or deliberately misunderstand it. To be honest, I'm completely unconcerned which one it is, because your level of discussion here is about on a par with what I've come to expect from your posts in general.

*Edited to add* I just noticed you said I expected people to get out of my way. Who, exactly, do I want to get out of my way. I said I get out of other people's way.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913426#Comment_118913426

In fairness, you went a bit further than just telling us what you do;

”That's all well and good, but I would be of the opinion that if you're on a road where traffic is travelling at 80kph, and there's a build up behind you, it costs very little to pull over, if there's an opportunity, and let the faster traffic past.”

Honestly, it’s hard to believe that anyone doesn’t meet heavy traffic at one time or other . It’s hard to believe that anyone would experience traffic heavy enough to build up behind a cyclist but yet never busy enough to hold up a cyclist behind a motorist.

Courtesy is a two way street.

Weepsie

He never said it wasn't. You're very much twisting what he says too to suit yourself yet have the temerity to accuse others of it.

You can either drop it, or take a holiday because you're getting tiresome now.

cletus

Correct. I offered my opinion on the circumstance that was being discussed. That being, if I, or anyone else, is moving substantially slower than the traffic behind them, then it would seem like common courtesy to move over and let them pass.

The important part here is the substantial difference in speed. This is why I said you were making a false equivalency in your original post. The relative speeds of both cyclists and drivers in the sort of traffic you posited is close enough that there's no real need for either of them to move out of the other's way.

It's possible for fast moving traffic to be substantially slowed by a cyclist.

It's much less likely that fast moving cyclists will be held up by a single slow moving car. It's much more likely that cyclists will be held up by heavy traffic, i.e. lots of slow moving cars

Can I assume from your last post that you're not going to actually address any of the point I made in my post?

DaveyDave

I'm glad I stick to normal 50-60kph roads within Dublin, none of these 80kph back roads and needing to pull in for me. All the red lights and junctions gives me more time to give the legs a rest ;)

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118913727#Comment_118913727

Club cyclists could easily be doing 30-40 kmph given a bit of space. Average traffic speed in Dublin is < 10 kmph. That’s a fair old differential there. Why shouldn’t fast cyclists expect slow drivers to move over and make room? It doesn’t really matter whether it is one car or many cars, they should all move over to let cyclists through.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/lifestyle/arid-30904229.html

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919134#Comment_118919134

I'll be honest, on some roads I will move in the odd time if I'm backing up traffic (if the conditions allow and it's safe etc). No obligation to do so, don't expect others to do so either...

But in town, hell I'd settle for drivers not going out their way to make life more difficult. Some see you filtering and block you or have the 'must get ahead syndrome' so bad I don't know how they manage to survive in life.