Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

cletus

@standardg60, you seem to think that by positioning himself/herself in the left turning lane, that's enough to have begun "execut[ing] a movement."

The point being argued (and, in fact, the law quoted above) does not hold that up. The op would have to be either actively turning, car moving, rounding the junction in order for left filtering by the cyclists to be illegal, or have a green light, and the option to begin the manoeuvre, before the cyclists were able to pass.

As the op has stated that they were stopped at the lights, they couldn't simultaneously be turning at the junction. Therefore there was no reasonable expectation (per the law) that the driver could manoeuvre left before the cyclists filtered past.

knockoutned

Just to follow up, I was stopped again at this junction this morning, so I made a very conscious effort in where I positioned my car. I went as far right as I could with blocking the right lane, and I still believe a bike couldn’t squeeze by.

Not that it mattered, there was a bus in front of me blocking the full lane!

Two cyclist went up on the path to pass both myself and the bus. As I turned left having indicated, one cyclist cycled off the curb to continue straight without looking. I think it’s just a junction where I will have to be overly cautious!

Thanks for all the responses.

Seth Brundle

As mentioned, the problem lies with crap box ticking design that creates conflict between different road users.

The cyclists shouldn't be using the footpath but I do get the idea of them wanting to be in front of traffic before it starts turning (I wouldn't assume that all drivers intending to turn are indicating)

knockoutned

Oh I would agree. There is enough space at that junction to put in advance stop lane, earlier lights for cyclists and a proper separate bike lane, but it won’t happen until bus connects happens.

On a side note, I know there is a lot of money being allocated towards active travel, but I wish they would setup a dedicated team of interested engineers responsible for implementing these plans nationwide, instead of relying on current county councils to do it. It would also be useful if there was a way to highlight problems directly to them, like this junction, so a continuous improvement can happen where needed, instead of waiting for large projects. I guess I can dream!

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121859575#Comment_121859575

The 'movement to the left' is not the execution of the turn, it's the positioning of the vehicle beforehand.

It's quite clear in the ROTR, the check for approaching cyclists is done before this manoeuvre. Once done, whether about to turn or stopped at lights, the vehicle has priority.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860111#Comment_121860111

Something like that would be a good idea. My last communication with a roads enginner was in relation to a new shared footpath/cycle lane along Dublin's Nangor Road. My issue is where they built the access ramp (at the yellow star) to get to the cycle lane. Using the following image, if I am cycling from where I've put a green star, I want to get onto the cycle lane but in order to do so, I need to cycle against traffic.

The engineer felt it was a satisfactory solution for me to take the first exit from the roundabout, get off my bike and walk it around the roundabout via the red stars.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860126#Comment_121860126

I assume you do know that the Rules of the Road is not the law and just an interpretation of the law with numerous inaccuracies. When you are stopped at a set of lights, you do NOT have priority. Cyclists as per the legislation I and others have shown are legally entitled to travel up along your left.

CoffeeImpala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860126#Comment_121860126

Leaving aside the fact that the ROTR are not legislation.

You should check for traffic before any manoeuvre. Once you've stopped the manoeuvre is over and a new check should be done before starting the next manoeuvre.

knockoutned

Yeah, that’s why I said interested engineers, engineers who would regularly cycle, walk or wheel (never heard of this term before this week) and would have an interest in doing it right. Would probably need to pay them equivalent of a private sector wage, however, I would imagine that there would be cost savings in the long run. Anyway a pipe dream!

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860126#Comment_121860126

That makes no sense. In order to change lane to the left turning lane, the op would have had to check for cyclists. Lets presume he did, saw none, and proceeded into the left turn lane.

There is now a new manoeuvre to be completed, namely, turning left at the actual junction. Even though he is indicating his intention to turn left, he is stopped at a red light, so there is no expectation that he will be able to complete that manoeuvre before the cyclists filter past.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860126#Comment_121860126

Rules of the road are advice. They're not the law .

You are wrong

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860216#Comment_121860216

This is sort of happening. There are dedicated teams being recruited in LA's around the country to particularly champion active transport designs. They'll be SME's so to speak. Additionally, any of the engineers are being trained using "experiential visits" to places like Utrecht. It's not exactly what you're describing, but it's a good start.

I find LA engineers now way better educated on cycle infrastructure than 2-3 years ago, in general. It's definitely improving in the two Cork LA's.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121860111#Comment_121860111

They'll probably come to that conclusion once they've burnt through hundreds of millions of wasted Euro on 'upgrading' crap road infrastructure to still crap road infrastructure. It always seems to be the way in this country. The obvious solution is staring the authorities in the face, but they wait until years/ decades have passed before acting on it, by which point the world has moved on and money wasted.

magicbastarder

this has been one of the issues facing local authorities; DCC can't hire enough people, they're operating at ~90% nominal headcount, and the shortfall is most pronounced in areas where they can't compete with the private sector for pay, so in engineering etc.

fat bloke

Any near misses to report there lads?

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121861280#Comment_121861280

MOD VOICE: Indeed, time to move on as it's just people repeating the same thing. Nearly all seem to have missed the cyclist was on the footpad and so no one's point is valid, so let's just leave it there. The law has been quoted and seems clear, anyone who can't understand it can go to PM for clearer explanations

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121861280#Comment_121861280

I had one on the way home this evening as it happens.

Heading along Tubber Lane (between Hazelhatch & Lucan) a driver, despite being on the only part of the lane that gives excellent overtaking opportunities, skimmed past me and disappeared off ahead despite my scream.

As it happened, about 500m further on at the narrowest part of the lane, he was facing two oncoming cars and was reversing backwards.

I pulled up alongside him and asked why he passed me like that and he beeped his horn and reversed more. However, he had caught himself against the ditch and needed to manoeuvre forwards: where I was standing. I apologised to the drivers behind for any delay but both seemed fine (more puzzled than anything).

Anyhow the muppet hadn't the balls to interact with me so I went on, knowing that he was behind me I continued along, taking the lane so to speak. Another couple of hundred metres along a pedestrian coming towards me called me so I stopped (in the middle of the lane). Turns out the pedestrian was looking to get to the canal at Hazelhatch as he had friends fishing there (he was holding his phone so not sure how he couldnt use the maps app???). After giving him comprehensive instructions to ensure he wouldn't get lost again, I grabbed the following pic and headed on further with the idiot behind...

Edit: typos

secman

Encountered 4 absolutely stupid cnuts behind wheels this morning, all happened in last 10km of my spin

Stupid cnut No 1: I was coming down the embankment and several cars were in a hurry to get out of one of the lanes on right hand side, 3 had ample time and space but stupid cnut No 1 pulls out as i am literally passing the lane and drives parallel to me on the middle of the road down embankment 😑

Just down from that incident I encounter stupid cnut No 2. He's pulling out of the last lane on left hand side just up from plant yard on the right. He's in a super sized van, he's edged out, he's looking at me with my front flashing light, waits until I'm 10 feet from him and starts to pull out to turn right and go up the embankment, had to swerve around him and then stupid cnut No 2 decides to remind me how stupid he actually is and blows horn at me !

At jobstown Inn I'm rolling along and I meet stupid cnut no 3, he's a professional driver in a 241D reg private bus, he decides to see how close he can get to me without touching me, would have thought a professional driver would have heard about 1.5 meters when passing a cyclist. 😪

On Belgard Road I meet Stupid Cnut no 4, he's pulling out of old Glen Abbey building, waits until I'm practically at the entrance and proceeds to turn left onto road just in front of me, stupid cnut No 4 is browsing his phone....😠

Got home safely despite the endeavours of 4 stupid cnuts.

Jnealon

There's another lunatic on Tubber Lane, drives a battered red toyota hilux. I think he has sheds maybe 400M further down towards Lucan from where your photo was taken, just be careful of him

cletus

Not a near miss, but stupid driving.

Heading along the road in the picture below yesterday, traffic at a standstill, all parking spaces full on the left hand side. I'm filtering to the left of traffic.

Fella in a van, in a parking space indicates to pull out, but traffic isn't moving. Turns the nose of the van out a little.

As I approach we make eye contact, and he pulls his van out as far as he can without actually hitting a car, blocking my progress.

I gave him a rueful shake of the head, and just filtered to the right until I was past him, and headed up to the red light.

McGrath5

Burton Hall Road, travelling west after the Luas tracks last week on my commute home. Traffic built up in the lane on the right, I took the left lane to go left up ahead and some idiot in a German saloon raced in from the right lane narrowly missing the last car in the line and skimmed past me. Fortunately for them I didn't catch up around the Beacon.

o1s1n

Jaysus lads just have to vent.

Coming out on the quays from the hill on Fishable Street, wife is ahead of me on her bike.

She takes the corner onto the cycle lane on the quays, im following behind.

As im making the turn, a motorbike on the quays decides he's sick of waiting in the traffic and to take the cycle lane just in front of me as I make the turn.

I nearly hit the side of him, he continues up the cycle lane right behind my missus trying to get her to move to the left.

I catch up with him, screaming 'get the **** out of the cycle lane!', undertake him, get in front and then cycle two abreast while slowing down in front of him to make him cop the **** on and get out of the cycle lane.

Absolute ****. I'm raging. At moments like this I keep wishing I had a camera.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121889517#Comment_121889517

I've seen a few morons, usually on mopeds, do the same, even in segregated cycle lanes!

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121889581#Comment_121889581

This was 100% a segregated lane on the quays with high barriers so exclusively for bicycles. Undertaking the bastard was a bit of a squeeze!

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121889594#Comment_121889594

I wondered that after posting, I'm never on the quays:-).

You would think there shouldn't have to be a public reminder that motorbikes can't use cycle lanes but then again...

Hope the missus was proud of you!

Viscount Aggro

I was cycling through Ranelagh today. A range rover was parked in the cycle lane, outside Dean hotel.

As I passed the car I looked back .. the male driver came out and shouted.. are you OK there?

I decided that I was OK... Male on male aggression right there.

What he doesn't know is.. I could have circled back and sent his teeth down his throat.

Steoller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893652#Comment_121893652

Any idea what made him shout at you? seems a bit random?

Dr_Colossus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896636#Comment_121896636

People are idiots, I had something similar last year going through a roundabout when a van coming from my left didn't yield and came into the roundabout encroaching on my space before he eventually stopped. I looked back and he later came up along side me shouting if I had a good look and if I wanted to write down his reg. If you do something stupid or were inattentive just apologise and everyone can move on with their day if no harm was done but oh no, idiots have to double down and then have a go at the innocent cyclist for existing.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121896758#Comment_121896758

As the poster noted above... "male aggression". It's always the same. Yes, you get idiotic female drivers. Plenty of ignorant ones too. Even the odd angry one. But anyone who cycles can attest to the very different experiences you get from male versus female drivers. Gimme ignorance and idiotic over aggressive every day.

Paddigol

Saw a woman on a bike nearly become the latest cyclist to be killed by a HGV in the city centre. One of the most braindead displays of cycling I've ever seen.

Cycling from Ely Place towards Merrion Street/ Baggot Street junction, she decided that the best place for her to turn right onto Baggot St was not, as you might have assumed, in the right hand, right-turn-only lane, but in the left hand, straight-ahead only lane. Not only that, but it occurred to her that it made perfect sense to move up the inside on a Guinness Delivery Truck to do so. So off she went, gliding up the driver's blindside, proceeds to the front left of the cabin, takes a hand off the bars and signals right while starting her turn. Thankfully there was a passenger in the truck who happened to glance to his left and reached across with his arm to get the driver's attention as she passed within a couple of feet of the front left of the cabin. Meanwhile middle aged lady cyclist looks incredulously at them for having nearly run her over, stops at the other side of the junction having made her (illegal) right hand turn, and glared at the truck as it drove on. She's now gone about her day telling everyone who will listen about the criminally dangerous driver that nearly killed her.

I genuinely shudder to think what would have happened if there hadn't been a passenger in that truck.

Be right back

https://x.com/righttobikeit/status/1769999646628192711?s=20..

tommythecat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918009#Comment_121918009

Another classic from him. His "right to bike" seems to come before any kind of common sense on the road.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121893652#Comment_121893652

It's no wonder cyclists have a bad name.

Be right back

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918295#Comment_121918295

Never mind that he saw the man going across but only brakes at the last minute. His 'righttobikeit' supersedes everyone's else rights on the road.

Weepsie

He's a plonker. Absolute plonker.

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121912016#Comment_121912016

I've a suspicion that an awful lot of fatalities due to HGV etc. are caused by things like this. I see bad cycling all the time in Dublin, and by bad cycling I mean cyclists not having the experience and cop-on to take up good positions on the road. One thing along those lines that I see regularly is people, usually women, cycling along and then putting their right arm out to signal a manoeuvre and starting the manoeuvre without even looking behind them first. There are a lot of noobs like that out there cycling. No wonder there's this hysteria about how "unsafe" it is to cycle in the city: I reckon most of the people who perceive it as being unsafe are the ones that haven't a clue about road positioning and generally "looking after themselves" when on a bike.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918624#Comment_121918624

Trucks shouldn't be let out on the road with blind spots if they can't share safely with other road users.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121918327#Comment_121918327

He braked at the first minute that the man moved out onto the road.

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919702#Comment_121919702

And meanwhile, in the real world, they still have them, plus they have a percentage of ****-ups driving them, so you need to know WTF you're doing when you're around them, and even then you're still not fully covered. I had a near death experience with one a few years back along the quays (Dublin): I chased him, caught him at the lights near Guinness's, hopped off the bike, full of adrenaline, hopped up onto his step, opened his door, nearly pulled him out of the cab. Fucker never even saw me he said. I came to my senses and left it, then went to Pearse St Garda station and reported it. Gardaí cautioned him as far as I remember. Point is, they're lethal so exercise extreme caution around them.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919714#Comment_121919714

He should be slowing before that. That he has di do an emergency break says he wasn't paying as much attention to the scene in front of him as he likes to believes.

As I said, he's a plonker

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919702#Comment_121919702

A blind spot isn't an excuse for braindead road craft though. One is fixable at a personal level.

Be right back

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919714#Comment_121919714

No,it seemed to me that he braked at the last minute. Why did he go in front of the scooter instead move behind? And lastly rtbi has full use of all limbs whereas the disabled man might not..

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919779#Comment_121919779

Had my near death one with a Guinness lorry too, over twenty years ago now but never left me. Heading into Terenure outbound from town he overtook closely on a left bend. Mid to rear of the lorry was in constant contact with my shoulder, just wasn't my time that i didn't catch in anything.

fatbhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919954#Comment_121919954

Mine was with a sand lorry. Night time, had lights, quay pretty much deserted, me approaching this narrowing of the road, close to the path, so I had to move out as the road narrowed. I guess it was partly my fault, but the driver should have seen me and realised I had to move out to stay a foot or so parallel to the path. Anyway, he flew past me in the inside lane, hugging the path. If I hadn't have stopped and kept going, moving out, I was dead. He didn't try to avoid me at all, just kept going at a fair pace. I must have been about one foot away from death.

Dr_Colossus

I go through that section every day and always take the lane from O'Connell Bridge regardless of traffic, think it's the only safe option despite the odd taxi driver blasting the horn etc thinking they own the road. Road surface is brutal and regularly need to avoid buses pulling in and out of the inside land for most of it. Wouldn't have a car or other vehicle pass like that black Hyundai (I think) of the two cyclists in the street view. Also despite there being no left turn you often see it so quite a dangerous section and it doesn't improve until past the council offices further down where there is more space available and a proper cycle lane.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919920#Comment_121919920

Did you watch his fingers on the brake lever?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121919893#Comment_121919893

Imagine if we were as quick to point out the root cause of the danger as we were to criticise a cyclist?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121920131#Comment_121920131

The root cause isn't always a blind spot Andrew. Sometimes, you know the root cause of danger is ones personal responsibility.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121920495#Comment_121920495

The post being discussed specifically mentioned the blind spot as an issue, but didn't point out the responsibility of the owner to ensure that their equipment is safe.

cletus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121921065#Comment_121921065

Blind spots are not the result of faulty machinery.

Blind spots occur through a combination of the position of the driver, and the location of things like A pillars in the vehicle.

In fairness, they're easily overcome by shifting position to check your surroundings, but it's the reason why it's not a good idea to cycle up the inside of a lorry or bus, etc. There are points where you won't be in the eyeline of the driver. Crossing right in front of an articulated lorry would be similarly hazardous, as the drivers position makes it harder to see you.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121921065#Comment_121921065

You're failing to see that even if there wasn't a blind spot, the moronic behaviour by cyclist still would have been the cause of the incident.

IT's not always Vehicle = Bad andrew. You really need to stop trying to blame absolutely everything on anyone but the person on the bike sometimes. Because sometimes it's a two way street