Neighbor complaining about my instrument

Jenneke87

I would appreciate your advice.

I moved into a new appartement this august. It's a fantastic place but (quite) noisy in the sense that you can hear sounds coming from the surrounding apartments. I can hear toilets being flushed, you can hear people walking, etc.

Now I play a musical instrument, the harp. I have two of them, one larger harp, one smaller. The neighbor living below me has come up twice now to complain about the noise she hears when I play. The first time when she came to complain I was playing the larger harp and after, bought a thick rubber mat for isolation, so now I always place the harps on a thick mat, over that I pull the rug that's on the floor and that I cover with a blanket or towels, and I never play any later than 21:00.

So today, I practiced between 19:00-20:00 and she came to complain. She said she could hear the noise through her entire house and even when she turns up the T.V, she still can't drown out the sounds. I find this difficult to believe since a harp doesn't produce a very loud sound, you'd have to play with quite a force in order to get such a sound out of it. I was playing the smaller harp this time, which produces less sound, but she claims it made no difference at all.

She tried to be "reasonable" by saying I can only play on a Monday and Thursday, as she will be home later on those days, or only play for half an hour. I feel like I'm not being unreasonable by practicing an hour and that she can't dictate on which days I can play and on which ones I can't.

I'm starting to feel like a prisoner in my own home and every time I practice I fear she'll come up to complain. So far, there have been no complaints from other neighbors.

I feel like she's overreacting and that hearing sound (within reason) is to be expected but also fear that could turn in a potential nasty fight where even the slightest noise will irritate her. What can/should I do and am I in the wrong here?

John Hutton

Tell her to go and jump. It's not like you are playing drums at 3am!

You have been fair by saying that you won't play after 9pm, she needs to realise that this is what happens when you live in an apartment.

punisher5112

Nothing she can do....

Get a good insulation company and give her the details....

Apartments and Living in them is the devil's work...

dobman88

Keep practicing at reasonable times and stop answering the door. If you do, tell her to leave you alone or make a complaint to the Gards if she wants. She would be laughed at by them.

ILoveYourVibes

If she is turning up the tv who is she to complain about the noise?

Its not like she is trying to sleep.

Geminigal

I have to say I feel for you both. Apartment living can be a nightmare. I'd imagine (because I have been in a similar ish situation) your neighbour is feeling like a prisoner in their own home too... With lots of living noise (walking around etc - not your fault) and now the added music noise. Their reasonable when trying to work this out may not be logical or rational and could be fueled by frustration and being at the end of their tether with the noise.

If they own the apartment they are stuck and if they are renting they are probably stuck too.... That can cause lots of fear of never having a peaceful home life and frustration of being stuck there.

Try to meet each other half way so you both can live happily. Showing a level of compassion and understanding to your neighbour may just open up their tolerance level giving you some more scope for practice.... Maybe!! Good luck and hope it works out 😊

chuck eastwood

To be honest I see both sides here. My neighbour took up keyboard about 8 years ago (He's still brutal). At first he played in the evenings and we didn't really care because we both worked full time and shifts but when he started playing it after 7.30pm while we had both been up since 4am I called him on it. I simply said we are entitled to peace and quite in our own home in the evenings and could he possibly practice at the weekend or when our cars aren't in the drive. He decided not to be an arse (I'm not saying you are OP) and said yeah no bother. He now plays the very odd evening and I just have to WhatsApp him to say they kids are going to bed and he stops. No big deal.
Also, my wife is starting Bodhrán lessons I two weeks and my 5 year old is going with her. Revenge is the best medicine lol.
On a serious note you are not a prisoner in your own home as you have a choice to play or not, she has no choice but to tolerate it. You're not the victim here even though it is difficult for you to practice

listermint

No one should be in an apartment if they are irked by the world around them. Simple as. You are surrounded side to side and below by people living their lives.


Move out to the countryside if you want real peace

wiggle16

Tough one. I see where both of you are coming from. It doesn't really matter who is right and who is wrong - whether you play the harp or you dont, one of you is being put upon by the other.

You are entitled the play your harp at reasonable hours, which you are doing, and she can't expect complete 24/7 peace and quiet if she lives in an apartment block. She's being a bit of a dick about it. But while there's probably not a lot she can do about it, and she definitely cannot dictate what you do and when and where you do it, the fact remains that it isn't just ambient noise, she can hear it and it bothers her.

It's easy to say tough sh*t, she should just shut up and put up, but if it were that simple you wouldn't be worrying about it. As the above poster says, she doesn't have the option of not hearing it. For the sake of getting on with her/not hearing from her again, I would try to find some other compromise - because she is not going to go away. If you don't, she will probably escalate it or try to bring other neighbours on board with her.

I would take the high ground here and try to come to an arrangement with her. You shouldn't have to, it sounds more like a problem with the building than a problem with you making noise, but a compromise is going to be easier in the long run than having her bang on the door every time you try to practise your harp.

osarusan

While playing, could you hear the tv after she shad turned it up a lot?

listermint

listermint wrote: »

No one should be in an apartment if they are irked by the world around them. Simple as. You are surrounded side to side and below by people living their lives.


Move out to the countryside if you want real peace

true to a point

nobody should consider it a suitable rehearsal space either imo

Jenneke87

osarusan wrote: »

While playing, could you hear the tv after she shad turned it up a lot?

No, I could not.

ILoveYourVibes

I dunno what to tell you OP. I have no idea of how loud you actually are in hers etc.

If it was really loud it might bother me too. But i understand the love of music too.

AulWan

If it was every night, and more than an hour, I'd complain too.

Just because its a pleasanter sound then thumping rave music, doesn't mean it is not causing a disturbance to your neighbour. The time of the evening you are choosing to practice is also the time most people are settling down to relax, watch TV, after putting kids to bed.

The harp can be quite loud as the sound resonates, especially a concert harp. I think her complaint is justified.

Jenneke87

AulWan wrote: »

If it was every night, and more than an hour, I'd complain too.

Just because its a pleasanter sound then thumping rave music, doesn't mean it is not causing a disturbance to your neighbour. The time of the evening you are choosing to practice is also the time most people are settling down to relax, watch TV, after putting kids to bed.

The harp can be quite loud as the sound resonates, especially a concert harp. I think her complaint is justified.

I never play longer than one hour, maybe 5 hours a week and not always during the evenings, sometimes morning (after 1030 am) or early afternoon. She complains about that too..

Xterminator

Well you are entitled to enjoy your apartment, and as she is to hers.

Can you not make an offer of reasonable accommodation that works for both of you, EG you won't practice before 10am or after 7pm, if she has young children etc?
Its not your fault (or hers) the sound travels, but live and let live.

antix80

You could try using something to dampen the noise, like some felt.. not sure if this would mess up your practice but it wouldn't sound as noisy.

Cuddlesworth

antix80 wrote: »

You could try using something to dampen the noise, like some felt.. not sure if this would mess up your practice but it wouldn't sound as noisy.

Waste of money. You want to stop noise, you need mass to absorb it. With towels, a rug and a rubber mat between the harp and the floor, its probably just vibration carrying down the walls into the flat below. Your not going to stop that unless you redesign the block with 2 foot thick concrete floors.

antix80

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Waste of money. You want to stop noise, you need mass to absorb it. With towels, a rug and a rubber mat between the harp and the floor, its probably just vibration carrying down the walls into the flat below. Your not going to stop that unless you redesign the block with 2 foot thick concrete floors.

I meant along the strings

zapper55

OP I would find that hugely stressful if I was your neighbour. Any amount of time where I could hear loud noise from next door would really bug me, nevermind a continuous hour of music playing. I cannot stress how much I'd hate this.

You say you should be able to play in your apartment, obviously I disagree. Maybe the other neighbours haven't complained because they know she has already.

LegacyUser

zapper55 wrote: »

You say you should be able to play in your apartment, obviously I disagree.

You can disagree all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that OP is perfectly entitled to play their instrument at a reasonable volume in their own home. Ambient noise is part and parcel of apartment living and the neighbour is coming across as quite pushy and condescending.

ManOfMystery

I play guitar OP (and used to live in an apartment!) so I'm erring slightly in your favour. With that said, I was conscious when I moved into the apartment that the people below me had kids and probably early starts, so I invested in an iRig adaptor and Amplitube app for my iPhone at the time. In a nutshell, it meant I could connect my electric guitar cable to my phone, put on headphones and it gave me all the distortion effects and volume I could want, whilst everyone else went about their business in blissful silence. I have a detached house now and still use it even when playing through an amplifier as the range of effects is so handy ............. or when junior is in bed!

I assume you use a normal Harp, you could always look at switching to an electric/amplified Harp and using headphones? It's a compromise of sorts; the neighbours no longer get noise, but you also get the freedom to play any time you want for as long as you want.

Jenneke87

Thank you to all who responded. Your input is appreciated. Just to clarify, it's not a family living below me, but an older woman who lives alone, there are no children in the house. I'm trying to be as mindful of the neighbors as possible when I play by placing the harp on a number of mats, blankets, keepings doors and windows closed etc. so I wonder how much can she really hear..? It seems like the hour of the day doesn't matter to her, from our last talk I understood that it also bothers her when I play during the day, when I presume most people are not at home. I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to turn a spare room into a little studio and isolating the floor and walls. It's gonna cost me a good deal, but it might be worth it in the long run I guess.

@ManofMystery: an electric harp works a little differently, it only makes sound when you plug in the harp, unplugged, the strings produce no sound on an electric harp, making it useless as an alternative, plus they are hugely expensive.

Thanks to all who responded.

seamus

Don't go to any crazy expense. I appreciate that everyone wants a quiet life without hassle, but your neighbour is being unreasonable. She doesn't get to demand silence from the other apartments any time of the day. You could spend money on fixing this and find that she's still up at your door whinging.

If your apartment and hers have the same layout, then consider practicing in a room that's not right above the main living area, and keep the door closed.

It's not a hotel, it's an apartment. You have the right to go about your day doing normal daily activities. Practicing a musical instrument at a reasonable/normal volume is part of this.

ncmc

I can’t believe people are saying the OP is the unreasonable one! It’s a harp played at 7pm, not thrash metal at 1am! Yes, everyone is entitled to peace in their home, but it’s part and parcel of apartment living that you have to put up with a certain amount of noise. I can’t imagine the OP playing the harp is any noiser that say, a child running around an upstairs apartment. The OP’s neighbour is lucky they don’t have a family with young kids above her, her head would explode with the noise!

It’s a common problem in Ireland unfortunately with badly built and sound proofed apartments. It sounds to me that the OP is being entirely reasonable, she is doing her best to minimise noise and is not practising at unsocial hours.

OP, I second what Seamus has said above, maybe practise in a room where the room below isn’t a living area. And maybe you could invest in thick gym style mats to see if that helps?

SuperS54

I think the only way you'll really understand if she is being unreasonable or not is to have someone play the harp in your apartment and go downstairs to check what it sounds like her side.

There's a good chance that what she is experiencing is the vibrations from the harp resonating through the walls and ceiling rather than the sound of the harp as such.

When I moved into my current apartment we were driven almost insane the first afternoon due to a neighbour with a huge subwoofer playing music (standard mainstream pop, not heavily metal or anything extreme). We talked to him and had a few trials, he could turn his stereo up to pretty much unbearably loud volume in his apartment and we could hear absolutely nothing in ours. Turn the subwoofer up to just a quarter power and our place became a huge boombox, wasn't particularly loud in his place. Thankfully he was a decent guy and turned down the subwoofer, we never hear a sound since although he does still play music quite loudly as it can be hear from the corridor.

Geminigal

I really believe you have to have been in the neighbours situation before being able to fully understand this issue.

It most likely is the vibration coming through the walls which would drive ya insane!!!

Again I think if ye can both come to a reasonable compromise it will make life easier for you both.

ted1

That’s the problem with old people live in apartments, they are there during the day and have to much time on their hands.

OP just play away but keep it between 8 and 8. It there about.

My folks wanted to move from a detached house to a apartment and for the sake of their future neighbours i encourage ld them not too.

WarpAsylum

Jenneke87 wrote: »

I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to turn a spare room into a little studio and isolating the floor and walls. It's gonna cost me a good deal, but it might be worth it in the long run I guess.

I think you are being perfectly reasonable, considerate and within your rights at the moment, but I do think this would be worth looking at in the long run. If you were to do a good job on it, you could practice to your hearts content in peace.

It's a shame your neighbour can't appreciate such a beautiful instrument, I'd have no issue with it whatsover! I don't know if you know Amy Turk? I'd run away with her in the morning... (swoon)

ted1

AulWan wrote: »

Or are all the neighbours expected to sound proof their apartments to accomodate the OPs practice sessions?

No they are expected to learn to accept that living in a multi unit dwelling there will be noises from other occupants going about their daily life.

AulWan

ted1 wrote: »

No they are expected to learn to accept that living in a multi unit dwelling there will be noises from other occupants going about their daily life.

I deleted that post as I suggested the OP invest in soundproofing to accomodate her hobby, rather then expecting her neighbours to pay for soundproofing to accomodate her hobby - but saw someone else had already suggested the same.

But seeing as you quoted me anyway...

A harp being played for an hour every day is not what I would consider as occupants going about their daily life.

It would be an irritant to any regular person, I know it would be to me. Doesn't matter if its a harp, or banging dance music, as already stated.

The OP's neighbour was there first, it appears the OP only moved in recently, so in my view, she is the one who should be making adaptations, not the neighbours.

ted1

AulWan wrote: »

The OP's neighbour was there first, it appears the OP only moved in recently, so in my view, she is the one who should be making adaptations, not the neighbours.

That argument doesn’t hold up. The city is in a state of constant change

petros1980

AulWan wrote: »

A harp being played for an hour every day is not what I would consider as occupants going about their daily life.

Who cares what you'd consider it.....(You're user name holds up by the way :pac::pac:)

Fact is that people do all sorts of things that make noise as part of their daily lives. From hoovering, to watching TV, to singing, to playing instruments, to playing with children etc etc.

Any apartment I've lived in has stipulated no excessive noise after 11pm. So complaining about a harp being played at 7pm???

Away and feck off

AulWan

petros1980 wrote: »

Who cares what you'd consider it.....(You're user name holds up by the way :pac::pac:)

Fact is that people do all sorts of things that make noise as part of their daily lives. From hoovering, to watching TV, to singing, to playing instruments, to playing with children etc etc.

Any apartment I've lived in has stipulated no excessive noise after 11pm. So complaining about a harp being played at 7pm???

Away and feck off

A considerate neighbour would care if they were causing a disturbance to their neighbours, and the OP obviously does care, as she did not just tell her neighbour to "away and feck off" (classy).

Jackman25

chuck eastwood wrote: »

To be honest I see both sides here. My neighbour took up keyboard about 8 years ago (He's still brutal). At first he played in the evenings and we didn't really care because we both worked full time and shifts but when he started playing it after 7.30pm while we had both been up since 4am I called him on it. I simply said we are entitled to peace and quite in our own home in the evenings and could he possibly practice at the weekend or when our cars aren't in the drive. He decided not to be an arse (I'm not saying you are OP) and said yeah no bother. He now plays the very odd evening and I just have to WhatsApp him to say they kids are going to bed and he stops. No big deal.
Also, my wife is starting Bodhrán lessons I two weeks and my 5 year old is going with her. Revenge is the best medicine lol.
On a serious note you are not a prisoner in your own home as you have a choice to play or not, she has no choice but to tolerate it. You're not the victim here even though it is difficult for you to practice

Revenge for what? he seems to have been very sound about it.

AulWan

ted1 wrote: »

That argument doesn’t hold up. The city is in a state of constant change

Tell that to those who are suggesting the OP's elderly neighbour should have to move, when she was living there (probably quite peacefully) before the OP moved in with her harps?

And then suggesting the neighbour should be the one to pay for sound proofing? Ridiculous suggestion.

ncmc

AulWan wrote: »

Tell that to those who are suggesting the OP's elderly neighbour should have to move, when she was living there (probably quite peacefully) before the OP moved in with her harps?

And then suggesting the neighbour should be the one to pay for sound proofing? Ridiculous suggestion.

What if the OP had a baby and in a couple of years a toddler running around? Should the OP have to move because the neighbour was there first and the OP has changed the dynamics by having a baby? You cannot expect to live in an apartment and have zero residual noise. It doesn't matter if things were peaceful for X amount of time, things change, different people move in and out. As long as the OP is being reasonable (which she absolutely is) and making an effort to keep noise to a minimum or at least within social hours, then the neighbour is going to have to deal with it.


Also those saying a harp would create vibrations, I'm no expert, but surely a harp, played on a mat wouldn't cause vibrations that would reverberate down to the apartment below. I can see how it would happen with the sub woofers mentioned earlier, but surely not a harp.

AulWan

ncmc wrote: »

What if the OP had a baby and in a couple of years a toddler running around? Should the OP have to move because the neighbour was there first and the OP has changed the dynamics by having a baby? You cannot expect to live in an apartment and have zero residual noise. It doesn't matter if things were peaceful for X amount of time, things change, different people move in and out. As long as the OP is being reasonable (which she absolutely is) and making an effort to keep noise to a minimum or at least within social hours, then the neighbour is going to have to deal with it.


Also those saying a harp would create vibrations, I'm no expert, but surely a harp, played on a mat wouldn't cause vibrations that would reverberate down to the apartment below. I can see how it would happen with the sub woofers mentioned earlier, but surely not a harp.

But she doesn't have a baby, so lets stick with the matter at hand, shall we?

If you want to make comparisons, make like with like. What if it was heavy metal thrash music the OP was playing for an hour everyday, instead of a harp? Would you then be okay with it? Up to 11pm at night?

Like hell you would.

ncmc

AulWan wrote: »

But she doesn't have a baby, so lets stick with the matter at hand, shall we?

If you want to make comparisons, make like with like. What if it was heavy metal thrash music the OP was playing for an hour everyday, instead of a harp? Would you then be okay with it? Up to 11pm at night?

Like hell you would.

Are you seriously comparing playing heavy thrash music at 11pm with playing a harp at 7pm?

One is loud, one is quiet

One is late at night, one is early evening

One is anti social, one is not

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

AulWan

ncmc wrote: »

Also those saying a harp would create vibrations, I'm no expert, but surely a harp, played on a mat wouldn't cause vibrations that would reverberate down to the apartment below. I can see how it would happen with the sub woofers mentioned earlier, but surely not a harp.

As you said, you're no expert. But harps are not quiet, and the sound deeply resonates.

Its irrelevant whether you or any other poster thinks a harp is a pleasant sound in comparison to any other type of music.

What matters is the neighbour is disturbed enough by the OP practicing that she went to the trouble of complaining about it (more then once), so the OP has to deal with it, and not just ignore it.

Also, South Dublin County Council categorise anything that causes a constant disturbance to a neighbour as anti-social behaviour.

ncmc

AulWan wrote: »

As you said, you're no expert. But harps are not quiet, and the sound deeply resonates.

I'm no expert, but presumably the OP is and she said in her very first post that it isn't at all loud.

For every neighbour with a genuine gripe about noise, there's a cantankerous trouble maker who will be knocking on your door if they hear as much as a pin drop.

AulWan

Sound travels. Just because the OP does not think its loud does not mean it isn't, especially in the apartment below.

khaldrogo

Don't open the door....... problem solved

<Mod snip - no need to quote entire OP>

LegacyUser

I hate saying this but I can see your neighbours side, I think living in apartments everybody is expected to have more consideration of others who live relatively close.

Moving into an apartment, in my view means you shouldn’t play loud instruments, have loud pets, have loud parties etc.

woodchuck

Mod note:

That's enough off topic bickering. Everyone is reminded to keep things on topic and only post if you have advice for the OP.

@petros1980 and AulWan - if you keep insulting each other on here, you'll be getting cards.

LegacyUser

Like many OP I can see both sides. Apartment leaving can be tricky and Irish ones tend to be poorly made.

OP you have three options:

Bend over do what the neighbour asks and only play at times she deems ok. honestly this opens a can of worms depending on the neighbour and demands so I'd avoid.

Be rude and just ignore her. Not nice and she may report the nose to the landlord or council and you'd end up with a really nasty atmosphere in the building

Or try and work with them. As someone suggested earlier have someone come play while you go down and listen and see what the volume is like (or you play and have a friend or family member go down). You'll either find that she's being overly sensitive in which case tell her you'll be respectively but you are within your rights to practice in your own home. Or you'll find there is something odd up like maybe you've placed the harp in a spot that is amplifying the sound and you just need to move it somewhere else in the apartment.

But you may find that it is making an awful loud noise and in that case it would be the build of the apartment and not a lot you can do but reduce the amount you play until you can move some where more suitable. the only way you'll know is to go listen for yourself. Take a sound meter with you if you can as all the landlord/council care about is doesn't it breach the law on sound level.

B0jangles

I have a lot of sympathy for both parties here - OP it's your home, and you obviously love playing the harp and want/need to practice your music somewhere.

If I was the neighbour though, and if it's like the kind of music practice I'm familiar with I really do think I'd be driven nuts - it's not like music on the radio playing - its scales, warmups, playing the same piece, or the same short section of a piece over and over and over again in slightly different ways to get the fingering sorted etc. That's maddening to listen to.

(obviously if you're playing through full pieces the above doesn't apply )

cloudatlas

Can you get a friend who plays to come in and play, and go down to the woman's apartment to hear what it's like. There needs to be some middle ground she's given you two days but you need more than two can you negotiate 4 days and stipulate particular times, you shouldn't pay for expensive equipment but it would be nice if this could end amicably.

MartyMcFly84

Is there an Electric Harp an option that would could play with an amp and plug in earphones?

I did this while in college on an electric guitar. Not sure if you can do the same with a Harp?

pwurple

There aren't enough harpists in the world, well done to you for being one. We've got all sorts of instruments being practiced in my house by the kids, brass, wind, keyboard, strings and we just shut the door if it's too loud. Yes you can hear it if you're downstairs, but it's just background noise. She'd know all about it if it was a brass band playing I can tell you!

You cannot live in an apartment and expect silence at all times, she can go live in the woods. Earplugs, playing other music, turning up her TV are all alternatives open to her.

seamus

AulWan wrote: »

A harp being played for an hour every day is not what I would consider as occupants going about their daily life.

We'd have to disagree on that one.

Plenty of people turn the radio or TV on and leave it on all day. A harp is no louder than that.

A person practicing a musical instrument for an hour during normal daytime hours, is very much "going about their daily life".