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Neighbor complaining about my instrument

Jenneke87

I would appreciate your advice.

I moved into a new appartement this august. It's a fantastic place but (quite) noisy in the sense that you can hear sounds coming from the surrounding apartments. I can hear toilets being flushed, you can hear people walking, etc.

Now I play a musical instrument, the harp. I have two of them, one larger harp, one smaller. The neighbor living below me has come up twice now to complain about the noise she hears when I play. The first time when she came to complain I was playing the larger harp and after, bought a thick rubber mat for isolation, so now I always place the harps on a thick mat, over that I pull the rug that's on the floor and that I cover with a blanket or towels, and I never play any later than 21:00.

So today, I practiced between 19:00-20:00 and she came to complain. She said she could hear the noise through her entire house and even when she turns up the T.V, she still can't drown out the sounds. I find this difficult to believe since a harp doesn't produce a very loud sound, you'd have to play with quite a force in order to get such a sound out of it. I was playing the smaller harp this time, which produces less sound, but she claims it made no difference at all.

She tried to be "reasonable" by saying I can only play on a Monday and Thursday, as she will be home later on those days, or only play for half an hour. I feel like I'm not being unreasonable by practicing an hour and that she can't dictate on which days I can play and on which ones I can't.

I'm starting to feel like a prisoner in my own home and every time I practice I fear she'll come up to complain. So far, there have been no complaints from other neighbors.

I feel like she's overreacting and that hearing sound (within reason) is to be expected but also fear that could turn in a potential nasty fight where even the slightest noise will irritate her. What can/should I do and am I in the wrong here?

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ncmc

AulWan wrote: »

Tell that to those who are suggesting the OP's elderly neighbour should have to move, when she was living there (probably quite peacefully) before the OP moved in with her harps?

And then suggesting the neighbour should be the one to pay for sound proofing? Ridiculous suggestion.

What if the OP had a baby and in a couple of years a toddler running around? Should the OP have to move because the neighbour was there first and the OP has changed the dynamics by having a baby? You cannot expect to live in an apartment and have zero residual noise. It doesn't matter if things were peaceful for X amount of time, things change, different people move in and out. As long as the OP is being reasonable (which she absolutely is) and making an effort to keep noise to a minimum or at least within social hours, then the neighbour is going to have to deal with it.

Also those saying a harp would create vibrations, I'm no expert, but surely a harp, played on a mat wouldn't cause vibrations that would reverberate down to the apartment below. I can see how it would happen with the sub woofers mentioned earlier, but surely not a harp.

AulWan

ted1 wrote: »

That argument doesn’t hold up. The city is in a state of constant change

Tell that to those who are suggesting the OP's elderly neighbour should have to move, when she was living there (probably quite peacefully) before the OP moved in with her harps?

And then suggesting the neighbour should be the one to pay for sound proofing? Ridiculous suggestion.

Jackman25

chuck eastwood wrote: »

To be honest I see both sides here. My neighbour took up keyboard about 8 years ago (He's still brutal). At first he played in the evenings and we didn't really care because we both worked full time and shifts but when he started playing it after 7.30pm while we had both been up since 4am I called him on it. I simply said we are entitled to peace and quite in our own home in the evenings and could he possibly practice at the weekend or when our cars aren't in the drive. He decided not to be an arse (I'm not saying you are OP) and said yeah no bother. He now plays the very odd evening and I just have to WhatsApp him to say they kids are going to bed and he stops. No big deal.
Also, my wife is starting Bodhrán lessons I two weeks and my 5 year old is going with her. Revenge is the best medicine lol.
On a serious note you are not a prisoner in your own home as you have a choice to play or not, she has no choice but to tolerate it. You're not the victim here even though it is difficult for you to practice

Revenge for what? he seems to have been very sound about it.

AulWan

petros1980 wrote: »

Who cares what you'd consider it.....(You're user name holds up by the way :pac::pac:)

Fact is that people do all sorts of things that make noise as part of their daily lives. From hoovering, to watching TV, to singing, to playing instruments, to playing with children etc etc.

Any apartment I've lived in has stipulated no excessive noise after 11pm. So complaining about a harp being played at 7pm???

Away and feck off

A considerate neighbour would care if they were causing a disturbance to their neighbours, and the OP obviously does care, as she did not just tell her neighbour to "away and feck off" (classy).

petros1980

AulWan wrote: »

A harp being played for an hour every day is not what I would consider as occupants going about their daily life.

Who cares what you'd consider it.....(You're user name holds up by the way :pac::pac:)

Fact is that people do all sorts of things that make noise as part of their daily lives. From hoovering, to watching TV, to singing, to playing instruments, to playing with children etc etc.

Any apartment I've lived in has stipulated no excessive noise after 11pm. So complaining about a harp being played at 7pm???

Away and feck off

ted1

AulWan wrote: »

The OP's neighbour was there first, it appears the OP only moved in recently, so in my view, she is the one who should be making adaptations, not the neighbours.

That argument doesn’t hold up. The city is in a state of constant change

AulWan

ted1 wrote: »

No they are expected to learn to accept that living in a multi unit dwelling there will be noises from other occupants going about their daily life.

I deleted that post as I suggested the OP invest in soundproofing to accomodate her hobby, rather then expecting her neighbours to pay for soundproofing to accomodate her hobby - but saw someone else had already suggested the same.

But seeing as you quoted me anyway...

A harp being played for an hour every day is not what I would consider as occupants going about their daily life.

It would be an irritant to any regular person, I know it would be to me. Doesn't matter if its a harp, or banging dance music, as already stated.

The OP's neighbour was there first, it appears the OP only moved in recently, so in my view, she is the one who should be making adaptations, not the neighbours.

ted1

AulWan wrote: »

Or are all the neighbours expected to sound proof their apartments to accomodate the OPs practice sessions?

No they are expected to learn to accept that living in a multi unit dwelling there will be noises from other occupants going about their daily life.

WarpAsylum

Jenneke87 wrote: »

I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to turn a spare room into a little studio and isolating the floor and walls. It's gonna cost me a good deal, but it might be worth it in the long run I guess.

I think you are being perfectly reasonable, considerate and within your rights at the moment, but I do think this would be worth looking at in the long run. If you were to do a good job on it, you could practice to your hearts content in peace.

It's a shame your neighbour can't appreciate such a beautiful instrument, I'd have no issue with it whatsover! I don't know if you know Amy Turk? I'd run away with her in the morning... (swoon)

ted1

That’s the problem with old people live in apartments, they are there during the day and have to much time on their hands.

OP just play away but keep it between 8 and 8. It there about.

My folks wanted to move from a detached house to a apartment and for the sake of their future neighbours i encourage ld them not too.

Geminigal

I really believe you have to have been in the neighbours situation before being able to fully understand this issue.

It most likely is the vibration coming through the walls which would drive ya insane!!!

Again I think if ye can both come to a reasonable compromise it will make life easier for you both.

SuperS54

I think the only way you'll really understand if she is being unreasonable or not is to have someone play the harp in your apartment and go downstairs to check what it sounds like her side.

There's a good chance that what she is experiencing is the vibrations from the harp resonating through the walls and ceiling rather than the sound of the harp as such.

When I moved into my current apartment we were driven almost insane the first afternoon due to a neighbour with a huge subwoofer playing music (standard mainstream pop, not heavily metal or anything extreme). We talked to him and had a few trials, he could turn his stereo up to pretty much unbearably loud volume in his apartment and we could hear absolutely nothing in ours. Turn the subwoofer up to just a quarter power and our place became a huge boombox, wasn't particularly loud in his place. Thankfully he was a decent guy and turned down the subwoofer, we never hear a sound since although he does still play music quite loudly as it can be hear from the corridor.

ncmc

I can’t believe people are saying the OP is the unreasonable one! It’s a harp played at 7pm, not thrash metal at 1am! Yes, everyone is entitled to peace in their home, but it’s part and parcel of apartment living that you have to put up with a certain amount of noise. I can’t imagine the OP playing the harp is any noiser that say, a child running around an upstairs apartment. The OP’s neighbour is lucky they don’t have a family with young kids above her, her head would explode with the noise!

It’s a common problem in Ireland unfortunately with badly built and sound proofed apartments. It sounds to me that the OP is being entirely reasonable, she is doing her best to minimise noise and is not practising at unsocial hours.

OP, I second what Seamus has said above, maybe practise in a room where the room below isn’t a living area. And maybe you could invest in thick gym style mats to see if that helps?

seamus

Don't go to any crazy expense. I appreciate that everyone wants a quiet life without hassle, but your neighbour is being unreasonable. She doesn't get to demand silence from the other apartments any time of the day. You could spend money on fixing this and find that she's still up at your door whinging.

If your apartment and hers have the same layout, then consider practicing in a room that's not right above the main living area, and keep the door closed.

It's not a hotel, it's an apartment. You have the right to go about your day doing normal daily activities. Practicing a musical instrument at a reasonable/normal volume is part of this.

Jenneke87

Thank you to all who responded. Your input is appreciated. Just to clarify, it's not a family living below me, but an older woman who lives alone, there are no children in the house. I'm trying to be as mindful of the neighbors as possible when I play by placing the harp on a number of mats, blankets, keepings doors and windows closed etc. so I wonder how much can she really hear..? It seems like the hour of the day doesn't matter to her, from our last talk I understood that it also bothers her when I play during the day, when I presume most people are not at home. I'm starting to think it might be a good idea to turn a spare room into a little studio and isolating the floor and walls. It's gonna cost me a good deal, but it might be worth it in the long run I guess.

@ManofMystery: an electric harp works a little differently, it only makes sound when you plug in the harp, unplugged, the strings produce no sound on an electric harp, making it useless as an alternative, plus they are hugely expensive.

Thanks to all who responded.

ManOfMystery

I play guitar OP (and used to live in an apartment!) so I'm erring slightly in your favour. With that said, I was conscious when I moved into the apartment that the people below me had kids and probably early starts, so I invested in an iRig adaptor and Amplitube app for my iPhone at the time. In a nutshell, it meant I could connect my electric guitar cable to my phone, put on headphones and it gave me all the distortion effects and volume I could want, whilst everyone else went about their business in blissful silence. I have a detached house now and still use it even when playing through an amplifier as the range of effects is so handy ............. or when junior is in bed!

I assume you use a normal Harp, you could always look at switching to an electric/amplified Harp and using headphones? It's a compromise of sorts; the neighbours no longer get noise, but you also get the freedom to play any time you want for as long as you want.

LegacyUser

zapper55 wrote: »

You say you should be able to play in your apartment, obviously I disagree.

You can disagree all you like, but that doesn't change the fact that OP is perfectly entitled to play their instrument at a reasonable volume in their own home. Ambient noise is part and parcel of apartment living and the neighbour is coming across as quite pushy and condescending.

zapper55

OP I would find that hugely stressful if I was your neighbour. Any amount of time where I could hear loud noise from next door would really bug me, nevermind a continuous hour of music playing. I cannot stress how much I'd hate this.

You say you should be able to play in your apartment, obviously I disagree. Maybe the other neighbours haven't complained because they know she has already.

antix80

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Waste of money. You want to stop noise, you need mass to absorb it. With towels, a rug and a rubber mat between the harp and the floor, its probably just vibration carrying down the walls into the flat below. Your not going to stop that unless you redesign the block with 2 foot thick concrete floors.

I meant along the strings

Cuddlesworth

antix80 wrote: »

You could try using something to dampen the noise, like some felt.. not sure if this would mess up your practice but it wouldn't sound as noisy.

Waste of money. You want to stop noise, you need mass to absorb it. With towels, a rug and a rubber mat between the harp and the floor, its probably just vibration carrying down the walls into the flat below. Your not going to stop that unless you redesign the block with 2 foot thick concrete floors.

antix80

You could try using something to dampen the noise, like some felt.. not sure if this would mess up your practice but it wouldn't sound as noisy.

Xterminator

Well you are entitled to enjoy your apartment, and as she is to hers.

Can you not make an offer of reasonable accommodation that works for both of you, EG you won't practice before 10am or after 7pm, if she has young children etc?
Its not your fault (or hers) the sound travels, but live and let live.

Jenneke87

AulWan wrote: »

If it was every night, and more than an hour, I'd complain too.

Just because its a pleasanter sound then thumping rave music, doesn't mean it is not causing a disturbance to your neighbour. The time of the evening you are choosing to practice is also the time most people are settling down to relax, watch TV, after putting kids to bed.

The harp can be quite loud as the sound resonates, especially a concert harp. I think her complaint is justified.

I never play longer than one hour, maybe 5 hours a week and not always during the evenings, sometimes morning (after 1030 am) or early afternoon. She complains about that too..

AulWan

If it was every night, and more than an hour, I'd complain too.

Just because its a pleasanter sound then thumping rave music, doesn't mean it is not causing a disturbance to your neighbour. The time of the evening you are choosing to practice is also the time most people are settling down to relax, watch TV, after putting kids to bed.

The harp can be quite loud as the sound resonates, especially a concert harp. I think her complaint is justified.

ILoveYourVibes

I dunno what to tell you OP. I have no idea of how loud you actually are in hers etc.

If it was really loud it might bother me too. But i understand the love of music too.

Jenneke87

osarusan wrote: »

While playing, could you hear the tv after she shad turned it up a lot?

No, I could not.

[Deleted User]

listermint wrote: »

No one should be in an apartment if they are irked by the world around them. Simple as. You are surrounded side to side and below by people living their lives.

Move out to the countryside if you want real peace

true to a point

nobody should consider it a suitable rehearsal space either imo

osarusan

While playing, could you hear the tv after she shad turned it up a lot?

wiggle16

Tough one. I see where both of you are coming from. It doesn't really matter who is right and who is wrong - whether you play the harp or you dont, one of you is being put upon by the other.

You are entitled the play your harp at reasonable hours, which you are doing, and she can't expect complete 24/7 peace and quiet if she lives in an apartment block. She's being a bit of a dick about it. But while there's probably not a lot she can do about it, and she definitely cannot dictate what you do and when and where you do it, the fact remains that it isn't just ambient noise, she can hear it and it bothers her.

It's easy to say tough sh*t, she should just shut up and put up, but if it were that simple you wouldn't be worrying about it. As the above poster says, she doesn't have the option of not hearing it. For the sake of getting on with her/not hearing from her again, I would try to find some other compromise - because she is not going to go away. If you don't, she will probably escalate it or try to bring other neighbours on board with her.

I would take the high ground here and try to come to an arrangement with her. You shouldn't have to, it sounds more like a problem with the building than a problem with you making noise, but a compromise is going to be easier in the long run than having her bang on the door every time you try to practise your harp.

listermint

No one should be in an apartment if they are irked by the world around them. Simple as. You are surrounded side to side and below by people living their lives.

Move out to the countryside if you want real peace