Carpentry tools for a teenager

..board..

My son who is 14 has a big interest in carpentry. He loves the subject in school, his teacher said he is excellent and hasn't had a student like him in years. He has made a few bits out in the garage at home, a potting table, shelves etc

He is asking for a lathe or a router for xmas, we are trying to pull him back on these ideas for the moment. While he uses them in school, I wouldn't like him on his own using these in the garage just yet.

I would like to start him with a tool kit of his own though, stuff that's decent enough quality. What would you start him with for around €300.

..board..

..board.. wrote: »

My son who is 14 has a big interest in carpentry. He loves the subject in school, his teacher said he is excellent and hasn't had a student like him in years. He has made a few bits out in the garage at home, a potting table, shelves etc

He is asking for a lathe or a router for xmas, we are trying to pull him back on these ideas for the moment. While he uses them in school, I wouldn't like him on his own using these in the garage just yet.

I would like to start him with a tool kit of his own though, stuff that's decent enough quality. What would you start him with for around €300.

Are you looking for hand tools, I'm guessing so from the content of your post in that you don't want him using a router/lathe.

Not sure what he already has in terms of tools so would perhaps be an idea for you to post what he had, but If he has a bench and vice, I would go with a veritas dovetail saw and either a no 5 or no 4 plane.
In terms of the plane if you don't want to go the ebay route fine tools or dictum tools in Germany do good copies of the lie neilsen planes at less than half the price.
Sharpening has many different systems available, but a Trend double sided diamond stone would do him along with a strop and honing compound for the plane blade and any chisels that he has.

..board..

I'm thinking more hand tools for now. My husband has a circular saw, jigsaws, drills etc

We have a bench, vice, clamps, a few different sanders.

I'd was thinking of a hand saw of his own, he doesn't have a decent plane or chisel set either.

Thanks for those recommendations

magicbastarder

Lathes would be generally safe to use, worst I've had over the five years I've had one is a couple of bashed knuckles when turning eccentric pieces. Most woodworkring tools come with a potential to hurt yourself if you're being stupid, except maybe things like hand planes (unless you drop one on your toes).

iamtony

I don't think he would be too happy with a few hand tools for Christmas. I'd get him a router and a router table and eye and ear protection.
Seriously though if these are the kind of things he wants for Christmas I'd hazard a guess he is a very responsible young chap and you should treat him that way and give him a bit of credit and trust him to use the tools correctly. He's been shown the correct methods and safety procedures in school.

Wanderer78

iamtony wrote:

I don't think he would be too happy with a few hand tools for Christmas. I'd get him a router and a router table and eye and ear protection. Seriously though if these are the kind of things he wants for Christmas I'd hazard a guess he is a very responsible young chap and you should treat him that way and give him a bit of credit and trust him to use the tools correctly. He's been shown the correct methods and safety procedures in school.

How much would a router, with a router table set you back?

iamtony

Wanderer78 wrote: »

How much would a router, with a router table set you back?

A quick Google and a decent table is 269: https://www.iedepot.ie/router-tableskreg-router-table/ but I'm sure you could get both in the budget.

..board..

Oh, ye are making me think twice now about the lathe or router

mycro2013

Wanderer78 wrote: »

How much would a router, with a router table set you back?

A router table and router are serious bits of kit for a 14 year to get if they dont receive proper training.

Wanderer78

mycro2013 wrote:

A router table and router are serious bits of kit for a 14 year to get if they dont receive proper training.

Yea I'm aware of that, I'm fairly nervous of the one in our local mens shed, newbies such as myself aren't allowed use them, and rightly so

iamtony

mycro2013 wrote: »

A router table and router are serious bits of kit for a 14 year to get if they dont receive proper training.

Yeah I know what your saying but it sounds like he would be well able. That's just what I would do.

Sharp MZ700

..board.. wrote: »

Oh, ye are making me think twice now about the lathe or router

I routed out a stair stringer in fifth year for woodwork,he has been shown the safe way in school so I'd be of the mind to let him at it. Get your husband to ask him for an instructional once he gets it in case your husband has been doing something wrong all these years;-). Just to gauge his capabilities.

mycro2013

iamtony wrote: »

Yeah I know what your saying but it sounds like he would be well able. That's just what I would do.

And to put it in to perspective no first year carpentry apprentice would be left use a router on site. And these lads would be 18.

He will have to learn how to correctly and comfortably use hand tools prior to getting power tools. It's the main route to progress in any trade. I wouldn't be in any rush to buy him any power tools as yet. Good quality hand tools will last a lifetime, are a great investment will have a nostalgic value which isn't to be disregarded. Every tradesman has some bit of kit which they bought while serving their time.

magicbastarder

a lathe would probably be out of budget, certainly if you were to buy new. you can get a decent enough lathe for under €400, but there are a few other bits and bobs which would probably add €200 to the purchase.

iamtony

mycro2013 wrote: »

He will have to learn how to correctly and comfortably use hand tools prior to getting power tools. It's the main route to progress in any trade. I wouldn't be in any rush to buy him any power tools as yet. Good quality hand tools will last a lifetime, are a great investment will have a nostalgic value which isn't to be disregarded. Every tradesman has some bit of kit which they bought while serving their time.

He already uses this stuff in school and they will of shown all the correct safety procedures.
I'm not saying handtools aren't great, I'm saying it's Christmas and he isn't asking for a playstation or the rediculously priced clothes my son and his mates are looking for as Christmas presents so give him a bit of credit.
At that age he will be more than capable and probably better than most adults at using safety procedures.

magicbastarder

sure get him a few rusty but good quality baileys in a car boot sale, and tell him they're his christmas present once he restores them. job done, €50 spent.

mycro2013

A playstation hasn't the same potential to cause injury as woodwork equipment has.

While any 14 year old may be capable to use this equipment the key question is, are they competent.

iamtony

mycro2013 wrote: »

A playstation hasn't the same potential to cause injury as woodwork equipment has.

While any 14 year old may be capable to use this equipment the key question is, are they competent.

My 10 year old daughter uses drills and a bandsaw and a few other bits I can't remember under my supervision. Just saying we don't give young people enough credit these days.
Actually as I say that would he be interested in a bandsaw? that could be a good compromise they are generally considered pretty safe to use.

Always Tired

That's great that he has an interest and talent for carpentry. I didn't learn any woodwork until I was in college for fine art and had to make panels and frames and I really struggled at first, because I never had a father to show me how to use tools and unfortunately in my school they only put the less academic or more troublesome kids into the wood or metal shop classes. Wrong way to do it IMO, as carpentry is very useful.

I later found out that my uncle was an excellent carpenter who kitted out half the pubs in the town my mother is from and made a mint working in England. I really wish I had been taught more about carpentry at an early age, as my college degree is useless for employment.

A good quality handsaw (the type that gets wider towards the handle) and various clamps are the tools I use the most, and a mitre box for making joints, which came as a set with a small rectangular handsaw. In college we had a thing that was like a hacksaw on a swivel that was clamped to a workbench, not sure what it's called. It was still powered by hand but it would click into the different angles which was handy, better than a mitre box but a mitre box is much cheaper.

Another thing(s) I use a lot that shouldn't be underestimated are measuring tools, I have a metre long metal ruler that has a handle in the middle and a level built into it, a clear plastic half metre one with a steel edge for cutting straight lines with a stanley blade (sometimes i start cuts into ply that way) a T square, and another metal ruler that is shaped into a right angle. Measure twice cut once and all that.

I was looking into buying power tools but the price and the prospect of injuring myself put me off getting a table saw (was warned about kickback injuries, googled it and yeah, no thanks) and for what I do it turned out I didnt really need it, I just needed to practice more with the hand saw, and get a better, more stable work bench.

Another item that isnt a tool per se but might come in handy is a respirator mask. I do a lot of sanding, and though I usually do it outside and my sander has a thing that sucks up dust, I have one on hand anyway cuz sometimes I use MDF which can be harmful and also I use lots of paint and solvents. Gotta protect the old lungs. They vary a lot in price I use a cheap 3m half mask was like 20 quid i think.

..board..

Thanks for the discussion.
Excuse the everyday life surrounding the pics.
This is what he mas made that is knocking around the house.

..board..

Pics

listermint

Power tool time.

Under initial supervision he will be fine afterwards

iamtony

..board.. wrote: »

Thanks for the discussion.
Excuse the everyday life surrounding the pics.
This is what he mas made that is knocking around the house.

He is brilliant, I wish he was my child:D
As listermint said its power tool time:pac:

chillyspoon

I don't think a router is the right choice at this point in time - just because you can enable him more with other options within the budget.

Given the budget and what he's built so far, a mid-range tracksaw like the Triton would make sense, it will enable him to jump to the next level of accuracy for fine furniture, and it's a tool he can expand on by using it to construct his own jigs and benches for finer work. Add a strong trim router later (one that can handle being in a table) and he'll be flying.

For example Jacksons in Kilcoole do Triton tools at solid prices (not the cheapest, but a "family business located in the country" level of support): https://www.jjacksontools.com/en/1400w-plunge-track-saw - so it's possible on your budget.

listermint

Good shout above especially trim router

Qwerty?

I'd recommend a lathe for him. I was about that age when I got one and got a huge amount of use from it, I used to turn coffee tables legs etc for leaving cert students construction projects 🀑. That was before schools had lathes though.

Avoid the router, a dangerous tool for an inexperienced power tool user.

..board..

Thanks for that suggestion, everything is "rustic" at the moment. He goes to the local sawmill and buys from the off-cuts in the corner.
Or we have a field of hazel to take from.

mycro2013

..board.. wrote: »

Thanks for that suggestion, everything is "rustic" at the moment. He goes to the local sawmill and buys from the off-cuts in the corner.
Or we have a field of hazel to take from.

Is there any local cabinet maker you/he could approach and ask for some Saturday work helping to install units or the like for the busy Christmas period. As good as the woodwork department in the school maybe they are limited by what they can do due to the curriculum and time constraints.

magicbastarder

would anyone running a business take a minor on like that though, especially on a job which requires power tools?

Princess Calla

iamtony wrote: »

My 10 year old daughter uses drills and a bandsaw and a few other bits I can't remember under my supervision.

Absolutely fair play to her. That was my big regret in going to an all girls secondary school. I even asked if a woodwork class could be added to the TY programme.... My school actually had a fantastic TY programme but no joy.

I was lucky to an extent as my dad was a tradesman so he'd do all the diy jobs in the house so you'd be roped in. While I'm confident enough with flatpack (not really a huge achievement) I would love to be more confident in general diy..... There's zero hope of me drilling walls or embarking on anything that would result in a huge bill to clean up my mess

Princess Calla

..board.. wrote: »

Pics

He is so talented!! Fair play to him.

magicbastarder

where do you live? there might be a local guild he could join; again with the woodturning, there are chapters covering the country, but may not meet an easy distance from you, depending on where you live.
in our chapter, we have monthly meetings, and there's usually a demonstrator showing off their particular skill or demonstrating a particular piece on a lathe, sounds like it might be worth checking out.

..board..

I'm in the waterford/kilkenny area,
Something like that could be good for him.

mycro2013

magicbastarder wrote: »

would anyone running a business take a minor on like that though, especially on a job which requires power tools?

He wouldnt be using powertools even a 1 year apprentice would be limited to what tools they could use. Everything isnt made using powertools. The key is to learn the process to efficiently and cost effectively make the piece of furniture or wooden structure. There is more to carpentry than power tools.

magicbastarder

..board.. wrote: »

I'm in the waterford/kilkenny area,
Something like that could be good for him.

seems the southeast chapter meets near kilkenny - the website is quite out of date, but as of 2015, they were meeting in bennetsbridge.

If he doesn't have his own plane, chisels and saws, lathes and routers should really be waaaay down the list of things to be spending money on by way of equipping a youngster possessed of enthusiasm and talent for woodworking in general. No doubt about it, there's a lot of knowledge here amongst the posters who have replied, but our own enthusiasm for a particular interest within woodworking can lend undue influence to the advice we might offer.

Trying to leave aside my own desire to tell you he needs a Bedrock 604 and a Roubo bench (hand tool woodworking overkill), here's a suggested shopping list and links for some good quality tools (some top-tier marking/layout stuff, others great usable tools that will last him) coming in at €227 plus about €13 for delivery. That leaves €60 in budget, so see a few optional extra from other sources at the end.

Fine-Tools in Germany have those items in stock and as a supplier they more often than not have the best price, especially when looking at the comparative 'cart' price. Items ordered from them will usually leave within one working day and their service has proven to be excellent over the years. I've no vested interest in any retailer who sells tools online or otherwise (although I can't say anything good either about Axminster direct sales, based on recent poor service experience), just giving a personal recommendation buying the exact tools I'm recommending from the supplier I'm happy to recommend also. I'm sure others have enjoyed similar experience with them over the years and may wish to chime in.

#1 - Low angle block plane - Juuma - produced for Fine-Tools, 'lower cost' but an excellent quality tool at €75 - Will last a lifetime:

https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=300050&order=1

#2 - A set of good quality chisels, fine for general use and will serve him for many years - Narex, in 6mm/12mm/18mm/26mm sizes - €29 in total for the 4 sizes I recommend:

https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=331103&order=1
https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=331106&order=1
https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=331109&order=1
https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=331112&order=1

More sizes available, but those will get him started and birthdays can add sizes for him down the line.

#3 - King 1000/6000 Grit Japanese sharpening combination stone in plastic case, good value, much better than cheap oilstones - €33

https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=309366&order=1

There is a larger version, costing about €44 - It's up to you if you went for that or not, but the one above will get him going. The larger one is better value longer term, so grab it if you're not holding firm overall on the spend.

#4 - Veritas Metric Micro-Adjust marking gauge, super accurate, easy to bring to school and will definitely benefit him - don't underestimate its worth! - €34

https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=307981&order=1

#5 - Shinwa Stainless combination square - Tough tool, accurate, very useful for all the projects he's likely to want to do. Again, ideal to take to school also and it's another lifetime tool - €19

https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=309601&order=1

#6 - William Greaves 10" gent saw, good for furniture making and finer project work, the kind of things he'll be doing in school. He can also resharpen it (his teacher will show him if he shows interest in learning how), will last decades, but cheap enough it won't cause any upset if it gets damaged or 'abused' along the way. €16

https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=303029&order=1

#7 - Ryoba type Japanese saw, suitable for general purpose project work, cutting boards and getting pieces ready for doing the finer joinery etc. For the money, the best type of handsaw you could get him without specific types of work in mind. I'd usually prefer traditional western type hand/panel saws, but there's nothing comes close to the quality/price balance as this one at €32

https://www.fine-tools.com/cgi-bin/shop/fronten/shop_main.cgi?func=direkt&artnr=313780&order=1

Options:

#8 Thor 712 Chisel/Assembly mallet - A fantastic tool to have. Worth every cent. €23 including postage from a good seller in the UK - I've bought a couple from this listing and recommend it as a great addition to the chisels I recommended above:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Thor-712R-Soft-Hard-Faced-Hammer-Wood-Handle-38mm-650g-THO712R/332667430833?epid=2254507869&hash=item4d748627b1:g:TrcAAOSwZvFbDWpB

#9 A honing guide for chisels/plane blades - Very useful to add to the items recommended earlier, even if there's one at home already. A new one should be bought and exclusively used with the japanese stones, to give them a longer life. Fine-Tools don't seem to have this 'clone' of a very popular type (copied and sold in their millions), so I'm pointing you to the Carpentry Store in Naas as they stock one. €14 plus postage.

https://www.thecarpentrystore.com/p/rider-honing-guide/340147

That should give your son a cracking good starter set of tools, at around the €300 total. As I've said, this set will help him enjoy all sorts of projects and areas of interest in woodworking, will absolutely help with the school project work in terms of the quality/accuracy he will be able to produce (at least as far as the tools have influence!) and if he ended up enjoying woodworking as a hobby or as a trade he'll still be using some of them by the time he'll be thinking about tools for his own kids, (hopefully!!) far down the line.

You're a good Mammy. Fair play to you.

tabby aspreme

I would agree totally with the post above, those tools will help him too move from rustic to fine furniture if he wishes, and with the €60 leftover you could add a 1000mm steel ruler, a few cabinet scrapers and a book by Paul Sellers or James Krenov.

..board..

JayZeus thanks so much for putting your time into that list of tools, it's much appreciated.

They would open up a lot of opportunities to enable him to develop and refine different skills.
I think he would be blown away that all this stuff is his own.

He sells sugan stools in a craft shop in Cork at the moment, he might expand his catalogue of goods after getting these.

mycro2013

tabby aspreme wrote: »

I would agree totally with the post above, those tools will help him too move from rustic to fine furniture if he wishes, and with the €60 leftover you could add a 1000mm steel ruler, a few cabinet scrapers and a book by Paul Sellers or James Krenov.

Add a good toolbag/toolbox to the tools listed and the lad will be well set up.

iamtony

Hard to argue with jayzeus with that list:D

Princess Calla

iamtony wrote: »

Hard to argue with jayzeus with that list:D

I'd say that list has been sent to Santa by many users of this forum.... And not for their kids either

recipio

The best present you could give him is to take him over to one of the woodworking shows in the UK - that would really open his eyes.:D
He needs the basics for a woodworker - a panel saw, a tenon saw , a jack plane a set of chisels and an oilstone. He has got to learn to use and sharpen tools otherwise the hobby can get frustrating using blunt tools. Try and buy one quality tool rather than ten bad ones - a good philosophy for going through life. For a stocking filler try ' The Technique of Furniture making ' by Ernest Joyce - an old but great review of making anything in wood.

iamtony

They have a wood turning lathe in Lidl this Thursday for €80 and a router for €35

Don't bother.

https://www.lidl.ie/en/p/discover-diy/woodturning-lathe/p32247

It's a pile of rubbish.

jack of all

I think good quality hand tools are the way to go- a nice quality selection that will last your lifetime, the only exception I would make would be for a good cordless drill/ driver. When I started out dabbling in woodwork I too thought a tool had to have a power lead! After some initial messing with power tool purchases I focused on hand tools- that's where you learn and perfect the basic skills- power tools can be purchased after as confidence and ability grows. €300 wouldn't buy much of a lathe setup when you consider you need a set of chisels and the means to sharpen them.

chillyspoon

JayZeus wrote: »

Don't bother.

https://www.lidl.ie/en/p/discover-diy/woodturning-lathe/p32247

It's a pile of rubbish.

Holy moly that's one of the worst budget power tools I've seen to date - and I'm a supporter of careful cherry picking from the Lidl/Aldi/Einhell/Scheppach/Grizzly budget ranges so I've plenty of Parkside stuff in my workshop - but I'd steer well, well clear of that yoke.

Same goes for the "portable table saw" they've got coming up too; that's a finger remover right there.

On the other hand, the 20 euro trestles would be grand "stocking fillers", although you'll need a duvet cover rather than a stocking to put them in!

bamayang

magicbastarder wrote: »

seems the southeast chapter meets near kilkenny - the website is quite out of date, but as of 2015, they were meeting in bennetsbridge.

I used to go to this. Very sound lads meet once a month in bennetsvridge. Pm me if you want a contact number.

Really would steer clear of router for now. He might be able manage it grand, but it’s a seriously powerful little piece of kit and if for any reason he’s not able for it, you could have a serious accident.
Great answers supplied so far and I would echo the Hugh quality hand tool route. If he has a strong interest in it, now is a great time to start focusing on better quality and improving himself all the time. Hand tools will do that. Fair play to both of ye.

recipio

jack of all wrote: »

I think good quality hand tools are the way to go- a nice quality selection that will last your lifetime, the only exception I would make would be for a good cordless drill/ driver. When I started out dabbling in woodwork I too thought a tool had to have a power lead! After some initial messing with power tool purchases I focused on hand tools- that's where you learn and perfect the basic skills- power tools can be purchased after as confidence and ability grows. €300 wouldn't buy much of a lathe setup when you consider you need a set of chisels and the means to sharpen them.

Agree. You can make a lot of things just by screwing them together and a cordless drill driver is streets ahead of a cheap cordless drill. They are not cheap but should last a lifetime.
If any tool empowers a woodworker however it is a planer thicknesser. It allows you to use hardwoods and you are not stuck with standard softwood dimensions.Whether I would let a 14 year old use one is problematic - training and supervision would be required as a minimum.

recipio

recipio wrote: »

Agree. You can make a lot of things just by screwing them together and a cordless drill driver is streets ahead of a cheap cordless drill. They are not cheap but should last a lifetime.
If any tool empowers a woodworker however it is a planer thicknesser. It allows you to use hardwoods and you are not stuck with standard softwood dimensions.Whether I would let a 14 year old use one is problematic - training and supervision would be required as a minimum.

Lads, the OP's husband has drills and the usual DIY power tools already.

Let him enjoy the bit of craft before he thinks he has to have production type tools at his disposal. And let him pay for them himself when he's old enough to have single tools costing hundreds of euro, when a fit 14 year old would be well able to do all the same things without the pricey power tools.

With all respect, talking about buying drill drivers or thicknesser planers for a 14 year old before he has a hand plane, saw, some layout tools and so on is probably not particularly helpful. It's no better than talk of lathes and routers.

Basics first. We all know that.

Sleepy

Princess Calla wrote: »

I'd say that list has been sent to Santa by many users of this forum.... And not for their kids either

You're not wrong. Mrs Sleepy was sent a few of the links for the chisels and sharpening stones!

bamayang

https://youtu.be/leBBTK7DF28

A good one to send to the other half’s also!