Climate Morons on The Late Late Show

gozunda

Gynoid wrote: »

Largely we are in agreement. But the local lads are getting off a wee bit lightly in your way of putting it, in my opinion. Three quarters of my very rural, lovely neighbours also use round up at their gate posts and on their drive ways to control weeds, some even doing so on longer stretches on the verges - I fail to comprehend how a bank of brown dying grass looks somehow better than green weeds!
Then there are the antibiotics which routinely go into the animals and thus the dung. Then there are the additives in the cow and sheep nuts. All of these change the environmental balance in a big way. It doesn't need mega doses to mess things up. Insects are called ecosystem canaries for a reason - because it takes relatively little to disrupt their ecology and wipe them out.
Plus here we have the endless monoculture forestry which hurls in nitrogen by the multiple bag per acre, leaching off into water courses thereafter, plus the needles acidify the ground and wipe out forest-dwelling diversity.
Even innocent looking and deeply rural, undeveloped environments harbour such a lot of chemicals which contribute to not only ecological problems but also hormonal disruption in humans too. I think chemical atherogenesis is a far more worrisome issue that the sky devil bogey-man climate change.

Ok I agree with you on the whole screaming alarmism going on but just a few points there

Firstly from what I've seen domestic roundup / weed killer use around houses both urban and rural is a huge problem. Go into any B&Q in spring/ summer and the first thing you are hit with are shelves and shelves of the stuff - all for the domestic market and the stuff goes our the door to beat the band. I see guys spraying the stuff in shorts and sandles spraying it on driveways etc. Yes it is also used in agricultural production - but here at least operators have to be trained and licensed in using such chemicals. It looks like its use in agriculture is going to be even further restricted in the near future

Second - the use of antibiotics for animal health is severely curtailed and is used only as is necessary. What 'additives' exactly are you referring to in 'cow and sheep' nuts? Heres one I just pulled out of google.
http://www.paulandvincent.ie/feeds/sheep/
Tell me what horrified you about those additives? Thankfully the majority of sheep and cows in Ireland are fed a grass based diet with supplementary feed being provided mainly during winter months. Interstingly the type of forestry is what is being currently pushed by our government and now apparently we have even more wannabe eco warriors wanting to cover agricultural land in even more. It's true our households are full of chemicals full stop. They are everywhere both urban and rural. One of the most significant sources comes from waste water discharged from municipal waste treatment centres which not only effect the aquatic environment but the terrestrial one as well through the food chain. We all contribute to these problems and the more people there are the bigger those problems will become.

https://www.thejournal.ie/waste-water-treatment-problems-ireland-4888536-Nov2019/

vriesmays

Ireland is outside the top 50 coutries for carbon emissions. Small-islanders-trying-to-influence-the-world symdrome. Jonathan Swift wrote about this Irish trait in the 18th century.

Gynoid

quokula wrote: »

Ireland's CO2 emissions per capita is higher than China and four times higher than India.

That was not my point. The point made was ''It is the overconsumption and emmisions in Western developed countries that are the problem'' - but my point is that China and India are among the biggest producers of emissions, so if emissions are the problem, then the producers of the most emissions are the biggest problem causers. Side Note - Emissions is a weird word if you say it lots of times. :pac:

joe40

Gynoid wrote: »

China and India are number 1 and 4 respectively in terms of highest global CO2 emissions. Most of the people in those countries are very poor.

What are the emissions per head of population?
We,as in Western countries, will be way ahead.

Mezzotint

The one thing I'm a little confused by is the CSO statistic on Ireland's per capita CO2 emissions is almost double the figure produced by the world Bank in 2015.

What's the difference in methodology?

Gynoid

wakka12 wrote: »

China is not the poor country it once was. 850 million of it's citizens have been lifted from extreme poverty since 1980's. Just 0.7% of the population live on less than 2 dollars a day, with that number predicted to be zero by 2020. Between 2000 and 2010, per capita income rosefrom $1,000 to $5,000, moving China into the ranks of middle-income countries. .Also much of it's emissions are from the industry that provides us with luxuries of modern daily life we enjoy in the west.

I certainly do not covet the life of the average Chinese person. Living in those factory cities their lives devoted to making our consumerables. They have only been moved into middle income bracket because there are so many people in the world who are poor and averages work like that. Like I said we are the 1%, almost all of us. The middle ground is a lot lot lower than where we are. Most of those people will never fly in their lives, or have anything even close to what we take for granted, even if they are ''middle income''. Not to even mention the technocratic dystopia in which they live.

Mules

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Basically, the plan is to turn Ireland into a full on socialist country and they are indoctring the youth to get them onside.

When socialism kicks in people usually end up complaining that there is no fresh meat (push for veganism), no savoury foods (Sugar tax), no free speech (hate speech laws) nobody allowed to leave the country and fuel shortages (carbon tax). So they're getting in the usual downsides for socialism and telling you it's for your our own good.

When the green socialists get their way and Ireland is a complete basketcase, do you honesty think China, India, Nigeria, USA etc are going to be cutting their omissions the way we are? They will and their bollox.

The only socialists in Ireland are the socialist party and the socialist workers party or whatever they call themselves these days. It will be a cold day in hell before anyone elects them.

Dual wheels

wakka12 wrote: »

Good thing those 'morons' are the ones actually thinking about valid future problems that youre ignoring

Do you really think those morons will give up their iphones iPads plane journies etc? Will they fcuk, after their last protest they left nothing but plastic bottles and rubbish strewn everywhere, climate change me bollix

wrangler

Dual wheels wrote: »

Do you really think those morons will give up their iphones iPads plane journies etc? Will they fcuk, after their last protest they left nothing but plastic bottles and rubbish strewn everywhere, climate change me bollix

Likewise the pop festivals

s7ryf3925pivug

Dual wheels wrote: »

Do you really think those morons will give up their iphones iPads plane journies etc? Will they fcuk, after their last protest they left nothing but plastic bottles and rubbish strewn everywhere, climate change me bollix

Gross and antisocial, but littering doesn't cause climate change. Though yeah it doesn't suggest the most conscientious attitudes.

Mezzotint

I'd actually like to see CO2 output per capita accurately tracked on consumption basis though. We've an interconnected global economy and carbon consumption calculations needs to be tagged to goods and services where they are consumed.

Also and this isn't to get farmers off the hook, but why is energy production e.g. Norway's oil and gas excluded from their per capita CO2 emissions, when say Irish or French agriculture is included? Doesn't seem that logical a way of calculating things and seems like some sectors are being given free passes.

gozunda

quokula wrote: »

Ireland's CO2 emissions per capita is higher than China and four times higher than India.

It's not I'm afraid at least regards China as China went past European per capita emissions in 2014

According to World Bank data China had the highest emissions of greenhouse gases in the world and climbing whilst their per capita emissions now above the EU average. 

Looking at World Bank data - China at 7.5 tonnes of carbon dioxide per person - has gone past European per capita emissions (6.4 tonnes) and was higher than Ireland at 7.3 tonnes for the last year reported (2014)

https://i.imgflip.com/33p132.jpg

China has also now has vastly increased standards of living with a burgeoning middle class and a significant number of multi millionaire and even billionaires. Is there still economic disparity? Yes there is - but it has more to do with unequal distribution of resources and wealth and rampant corruption
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49806247


Ditto India. A huge number of very rich and well off middle class, massive infrastructure and resources and a yet vast number of poor people for many of the same reasons as China.

wakka12

Gynoid wrote: »

I certainly do not covet the life of the average Chinese person. Living in those factory cities their lives devoted to making our consumerables. They have only been moved into middle income bracket because there are so many people in the world who are poor and averages work like that. Like I said we are the 1%, almost all of us. The middle ground is a lot lot lower than where we are. Most of those people will never fly in their lives, or have anything even close to what we take for granted, even if they are ''middle income''. Not to even mention the technocratic dystopia in which they live.

I think you have a very dated view of what China looks like. Just look at some aerial maps of what chinese cities look like. Definitely theres problems like pollution and political issues and I dont envy their lives there but hundreds of millions of chinese people live in modern accommodation not that dissimilar to standards here in urban areas of ireland. Of the 750 million or so richest people on earth, roughly 100 million of those people are Chinese, 99 million of them are american. There are 4.4 million millionaires in the country, increasing by 158,000 annually. China has an asbolutely enormous class of very wealthy people and now a relatively small class of poverty as well.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/21/china-overtakes-us-in-rankings-of-worlds-richest-people
Chinese cities or new york?

cournioni

Motivator wrote: »

Are these people actually serious with this climate carry on? Why do they all look and sound the same? Specky twats with terrible names and even worse fake accents.

When will this end?

It will never end until we give in so that they can move on to their next nonsense cause.

Dual wheels

Veda Beautiful Rope wrote: »

Gross and antisocial, but littering doesn't cause climate change. Though yeah it doesn't suggest the most conscientious attitudes.

Littering the place with plastic

Drumpot

Deleted User wrote: »

I used to think boards was a place where I'd agree with the general consensus. I felt an ownership over the collective consciousness. Every day now whether it's after hours or current affairs, there's a comment like this with a ton of people agreeing making me realise that maybe this site no longer represents me.

Belligerent ignorance doesn’t surprise me anymore although I would wonder how representative some of the misguided opinions on this thread really are on society. The religion of Consumerism and social media narcissism allows certain people a platform for grandstanding whatever self centred dogma suits their own agenda without having to address the truth.

The only pathetic thing about children being rolled out to lecture adults and the leaders of society is that as a species we need children to tell us what scientists have been saying for decades. Some People need to be told what to do because they are too short sighted and ignorant to do what’s best for themselves. The ego and ironically childish response of some to say “I’m not having children tell me what to do” gives us an insight into why , in spite of all the incontrovertible evidence, some people refuse to accept the role we as a species are playing on our environment.

Another thing about targeting the children is a modern day thing Ive noticed. Attack the messenger , not the message. There is no informed discussion possible when a person refuses to address what is being said. It’s like Trump supporters in that there is no reasoning with some people. They know what they know and will be damned if anybody suggests otherwise.

It doesn’t matter how small Ireland is, I really can’t understand this logic. Everybody has to play their role, taking a “well if that country is producing more pollution , I’m not bothering to make adjustments” is such a backward thinking logic, almost petty child like approach. Part of the reason that climate change strategy’s usually come in form of taxes is because we are such a self absorbed, shallow species that only when if hits our pockets will we react to something. Having to pay more tax leaves us Less money to buy crap we don’t really need which in itself probably helps the environment as that leads to less disposable crap being made.

vriesmays

How many of these kids have competed in the young scientist.

Mezzotint

I'd be familiar with both India and China and I would suspect China will actually make it being an ultra high tech society long before India does. It's lashing resources into urbanism, public transport, green energy, etc etc.

China also is a lot better at wealth redistribution and isn't a society that's stratified by a caste system.

They're both on a rapid development path but they're in some ways polar opposites. India is a democracy, but it has tons of issues with chaotic systems, bad infrastructure and tends to be tied up in a class / caste system that limits wealth redistribution.

China on the other hand is an authoritarian state that has capitalism within the structures of a corporate like command economy. It's actually been remarkably good at wealth redistribution and development but is extremely bad on human rights and personal freedoms indices.

In my view India risks a lot more environmental issues but China risks political ones by being unable to devolve power - see HK etc etc

Environmentally speaking though, I think China will probably stabilise and then reduce emissions over the next decade or two. I also don't see China having any issues with huge scale engineering to mitigate against climate change impacts, whereas I could see India having major issues.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Boards really is a cesspit these days.

cournioni

biko wrote: »

Shout-out to the greenest country on earth, one many climate alarmists wants everyone to emulate

Yet they’ve chopped down all of their trees! For shame!! :eek:

s7ryf3925pivug

Dual wheels wrote: »

Littering the place with plastic

How does that produce greenhouse gases?
Wheee I am, lots of people burn rubbish and few people complain. Everyone gets their knickers in a twist about littering. Burning is much worse - harmful chemicals in the air you breathe as well as greenhouse emissions. And you cant pick the gases out of the air the way you can pick rubbish off the ground.

Not an apologist for littering, just saying people have their focus and priorities all mixed up when it comes to this stuff.

Gaoth Laidir

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i only buy what i think i need, i dont seem to consume what many do, ive very little interest in it, i find regular consumption quiet bizarre behavior. no solar panels, unable to afford it, but id like to, id also like to setup a small wind turbine on site, but similar problem. i do cycle, but not as much as i use to, unable to afford an electric car, fly very little nowadays, not for environmental reasons, but more so because i cant afford it. not only do i eat beef, i eat many different types of meat. i cant post without a computer or phone,....

strangely enough, its actually virtually impossible to exist on this planet without having some sort of negative effect on it, hence the critical need for institutional and systemic changes. theres limitations, severe in some cases, of what changes the individual can do for this issue, it is why im deeply skeptical of polices such as carbon taxation. some of the biggest polluters on this planet are large institutions and corporations, and since a major part of their business models is tax evasion and tax avoidance, you d have to wonder, will they just continue as is, and push this tax onto the backs of the individual? i suspect so, which could simply lead to a major failure in the overall aim of the carbon tax approach, but who knows, i could be wrong, hopefully i am

So money is stopping you doing what we're all supposed to be doing. But you are eating beef, which is apparently a no-no, according to the drivel I've been listening to on RTÉ this week. And you probably would fly if you had the money. And you're chosing to use at least one digital device.

Not the biggest polluter in the world alright, but if you support these upstart kids then you should be making the ultimate personal sacrifice and indeed living an Amish life. That seems to be the type of extremes this cult speaks of now.

Faugheen

Drumpot wrote: »

Belligerent ignorance doesn’t surprise me anymore although I would wonder how representative some of the misguided opinions on this thread really are on society. The religion of Consumerism and social media narcissism allows certain people a platform for grandstanding whatever self centred dogma suits their own agenda without having to address the truth.

The only pathetic thing about children being rolled out to lecture adults and the leaders of society is that as a species we need children to tell us what scientists have been saying for decades. Some People need to be told what to do because they are too short sighted and ignorant to do what’s best for themselves. The ego and ironically childish response of some to say “I’m not having children tell me what to do” gives us an insight into why , in spite of all the incontrovertible evidence, some people refuse to accept the role we as a species are playing on our environment.

Another thing about targeting the children is a modern day thing Ive noticed. Attack the messenger , not the message. There is no informed discussion possible when a person refuses to address what is being said. It’s like Trump supporters in that there is no reasoning with some people. They know what they know and will be damned if anybody suggests otherwise.

It doesn’t matter how small Ireland is, I really can’t understand this logic. Everybody has to play their role, taking a “well if that country is producing more pollution , I’m not bothering to make adjustments” is such a backward thinking logic, almost petty child like approach. Part of the reason that climate change strategy’s usually come in form of taxes is because we are such a self absorbed, shallow species that only when if hits our pockets will we react to something. Having to pay more tax leaves us Less money to buy crap we don’t really need which in itself probably helps the environment as that leads to less disposable crap being made.

Boards isn’t reflective of society. It’s where people go to to vent their anger and frustration at everybody else but their own sad, ****e lives.

Peter Casey is the prime example. Boards polls had him winning the Presidential Election by a landslide and he’s gone on to be the representative for perennial losers, starting with with walloping he got in that Presidential election.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

So money is stopping you doing what we're all supposed to be doing. But you are eating beef, which is apparently a no-no, according to the drivel I've been listening to on RTÉ this week. And you probably would fly if you had the money. And you're chosing to use at least one digital device.

Not the biggest polluter in the world alright, but if you support these upstart kids then you should be making the ultimate personal sacrifice and indeed living an Amish life. That seems to be the type of extremes this cult speaks of now.

I'm getting curious now: has someone actually advocated mass shunning of electricity, or are you being hysterical?

Can you seriously not tell the difference between choosing to live a little more eco-friendly for whatever reason and living off the grid...? Because, based in your posts, I'm honestly not sure

Mezzotint

Veda Beautiful Rope wrote: »

How does that produce greenhouse gases?
Wheee I am, lots of people burn rubbish and few people complain. Everyone gets their knickers in a twist about littering. Burning is much worse - harmful chemicals in the air you breathe as well as greenhouse emissions. And you cant pick the gases out of the air the way you can pick rubbish off the ground.

Not an apologist for littering, just saying people have their focus and priorities all mixed up when it comes to this stuff.

Burning plastics in a low temperature, uncontrolled fire is hugely hazardous from a health point of view. You're introducing all sorts of carcinogenic chemicals to the air by doing that.

Ideally we should be using fully recyclable plastics and those that can't be should be high temperature incinerated in waste to energy plants. When they're burnt in a controlled process the emissions are basically CO2 bit you're not getting all those dangerous chemicals escaping.
Ideally they shouldn't be used if they can't be recycled and recovered easily.

I find people in Ireland still have notions about cozy fireplaces, and think nothing of choking themselves and the neighbours with particulates. The smokeless fuel rules in cities have massively improved lifestyle.

I grew up in Dublin and my childhood was before the shining ban and I remember blowing black smuts out of my nose. I had loads of upper respiratory infections, sinusitis and ultimately bad ear infections that led to needing surgery and, since they vanished when the smoke did, I can only assume the two were linked.

Wanderer78

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

So money is stopping you doing what we're all supposed to be doing. But you are eating beef, which is apparently a no-no, according to the drivel I've been listening to on RTÉ this week. And you probably would fly if you had the money. And you're chosing to use at least one digital device.

Not the biggest polluter in the world alright, but if you support these upstart kids then you should be making the ultimate personal sacrifice and indeed living an Amish life. That seems to be the type of extremes this cult speaks of now.

absolutely, a critical component of all this is money, and we havent sorted this one out either, in relation to its creation and re-distribution, our monetary systems are not democratic in nature, they are in fact highly dysfunctional, and potentially dangerous too all humans, including the wealthy. of course i engage in activities that are harmful to the environment, most humans do, again, its virtually impossible to not. ive many digital devices, i use an astonishing amount of electrical power, but ive very little control over its creation, hence our predicament, this is whats meant by institutional and systemic change.

ive enormous amounts of respect for these young people, their movement is actually working at forcing change on a grand scale, i see no reason why we need to, or should, downgrade the quality of our lives, i do believe its possible to in fact increase the quality of our lives by making these dramatic changes

vriesmays

You think putting a cover on freezers in Tesco is a dramatic change.

joeysoap

Wouldn’t one wild fire in Australia or California cause more carbon emissions than the whole of Ireland lighting fires for the winter?

I’m not anti anything just think we go overboard.

quokula

joeysoap wrote: »

Wouldn’t one wild fire in Australia or California cause more carbon emissions than the whole of Ireland lighting fires for the winter?

I’m not anti anything just think we go overboard.

And this is one of the reasons we need to take action soon as things are going to get exponentially worse as climate change continues to make these wild fires and other feedback loops more and more common.

s7ryf3925pivug

vriesmays wrote: »

You think putting a cover on freezers in Tesco is a dramatic change.

I closed freezer doors three times in thensupermarket yesterday that random assholes just left wide open. Should be fines for stuff like that. You can get on the spot fines for littering.