Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy railway

IE 222

Are all these works been done as safety and maintenance measures or are they apart of an overall improvement of journey times ect.

seekers

IE 222 wrote: »

Are all these works been done as safety and maintenance measures or are they apart of an overall improvement of journey times ect.

The line seems to be closed for engineering work quite often. The best maintained line in the country

Del.Monte

seekers wrote: »

The line seems to be closed for engineering work quite often. The best maintained line in the country

It's part of the plan to introduce 100mph running on the line before Christmas.

IE 222

seekers wrote: »

The line seems to be closed for engineering work quite often. The best maintained line in the country

Well in fairness it's also the most in need of maintenance line in the country.

The question I'm asking is, has the time come that the sections of track can no longer be maintained or is it apart of an effort to improve services overall and if this is happening now because of Covid were IE are having to redirect resources to lower cost projects or was this planned to take place before Covid.

seekers

Isn't some of that line CWR?

IE 222

seekers wrote: »

Isn't some of that line CWR?

Yeah but think most of it is between Killonan and Nenagh, im sure someone else will confirm that. The works over the summer seen a few miles around Roscrea upgraded.

Working class heroes

Del.Monte wrote: »

It's part of the plan to introduce 100mph running on the line before Christmas.

And you’d still be complaining it’s not 120.

seekers

Kind of surprising that there is not even the offer of a bus replacement. I suppose the covid is aligning well for that. It's hard to see the line having a long term future even with all the work

IE 222

seekers wrote: »

Kind of surprising that there is not even the offer of a bus replacement. I suppose the covid is aligning well for that. It's hard to see the line having a long term future even with all the work

Numbers are on the up. In fact its quite telling in the census that people want to use the service but can't. The numbers show good usage in the mornings but it's the return service that is holding it back.

tabbey

IE 222 wrote: »

Numbers are on the up. In fact its quite telling in the census that people want to use the service but can't. The numbers show good usage in the mornings but it's the return service that is holding it back.

More likely that the low speed is holding it back.

goingnowhere

Census can be manipulated as the date is well known and is a single data point, just saying...

IE 222

tabbey wrote: »

More likely that the low speed is holding it back.

Well that's preventing more from using it. The figures show a telling story.

For instance,

Ballybrophy - 47 arrive but only 7 boarded throughout the day. An educated guess would be 47 traveled in the morning but only 7 could make the connection back.

Castleconnell - Boarded 22 (Northbound towards Dublin) 20 (Southbound towards Limerick) - Arrived 0 (Northbound from Limerick) 8 (Southbound from Dublin)

I think it's clear to say IE need to look at their evening departures first and foremost. They need to put the second set on the line in the evenings or look into splitting sets in Portlaise.

dzsfah2xoynme9

Well I doubt they're closing this line anytime soon. The road between Castleconnell and O'Briensbridge is closed next week for 3 weeks. Irish Rail are replacing the railway bridge at DerryLusk.
Doubt they'd invest that kind of money on a line they'll close soon.

seekers

Thank you. That is what I was looking for. Seems a long time to close the line to replace a bridge. When compared with other bridge replacements. The allow river bridge and the monesterevan bypass and M1 bridges were all far bigger and done over a weekend

Del.Monte

Tara Faithful Softball wrote: »

Well I doubt they're closing this line anytime soon. The road between Castleconnell and O'Briensbridge is closed next week for 3 weeks. Irish Rail are replacing the railway bridge at DerryLusk.
Doubt they'd invest that kind of money on a line they'll close soon.

That's not how CIE works and there have been numerous cases of spending money on lines threatened with closure - the West Cork system probably the best known. The West Clare being another.

dzsfah2xoynme9

seekers wrote: »

Thank you. That is what I was looking for. Seems a long time to close the line to replace a bridge. When compared with other bridge replacements. The allow river bridge and the monesterevan bypass and M1 bridges were all far bigger and done over a weekend

Apparently they're not just replacing the bridge, they're also raising it. I'm guessing that would involve raising the whole line and embankments themselves? Lots of trucks striking the bridge.

seekers

Tara Faithful Softball wrote: »

Apparently they're not just replacing the bridge, they're also raising it. I'm guessing that would involve raising the whole line and embankments themselves? Lots of trucks striking the bridge.

I has a look on Google maps today and it didn't look in great condition either. Is this the only work they're doing on the line?

dzsfah2xoynme9

seekers wrote: »

I has a look on Google maps today and it didn't look in great condition either. Is this the only work they're doing on the line?

As far as I know. I did notice a good bit of activity beside the bridge for the past few weeks. Clearing the embankments and installing a temporary road. I'll stroll up next week when the road is closed to see what's happening.

dowlingm

seekers wrote: »

I has a look on Google maps today and it didn't look in great condition either. Is this the only work they're doing on the line?

If it is UBN87 over the R525, it appears on this list as a 3.0 “Significant structural defects, i.e. out-of-tolerance faults”
https://www.irishrail.ie/IrishRail/media/Imported/ie_foi_136_response_pack.pdf

dowlingm

seekers wrote: »

Thank you. That is what I was looking for. Seems a long time to close the line to replace a bridge. When compared with other bridge replacements. The allow river bridge and the monesterevan bypass and M1 bridges were all far bigger and done over a weekend

to be fair, the overtime etc. that must have been spent to achieve quick/overnight builds doesn’t seem justified here.

seekers

Some lovely pictures of the new bridge here

https://www.facebook.com/130935910272086/posts/3794117403953900/

daniel_t1409

seekers wrote: »

Some lovely pictures of the new bridge here

https://www.facebook.com/130935910272086/posts/3794117403953900/

Won't be long now before it becomes a greenway bridge :rolleyes:

seekers

daniel_t1409 wrote: »

Won't be long now before it becomes a greenway bridge :rolleyes:

Sad but true

dowlingm

A bit disappointing that the project didn’t relocate at least one side of the abutments (at the expense of the relevant road authority) to permit widening of the road and therefore better sighting distances, no? It looks to me like the deck is maybe a bit thinner so maybe a few fewer bridge strikes.

nigra

I occasionally work in Nenagh hospital and commute from Limerick City. In general, taking the train somewhere just makes a lot of sense. I can work away on my laptop while i'm travelling by train , in contrast driving time is dead time to me from a productivity perspective ,at least until Elon Musk sorts out driverless cars. The Limerick/Nenagh service is just appalling though. If i want to get back to Limerick from Nenagh anytime after 11.10am , then i have to wait to get back into Colbert station at 21.15

I admit defeat and drive instead.

Do i want to use the service? definitely
Is the service objectively adequate considering the size of towns? definitely not

Limpy

nigra wrote: »

I occasionally work in Nenagh hospital and commute from Limerick City. In general, taking the train somewhere just makes a lot of sense. I can work away on my laptop while i'm travelling by train , in contrast driving time is dead time to me from a productivity perspective ,at least until Elon Musk sorts out driverless cars. The Limerick/Nenagh service is just appalling though. If i want to get back to Limerick from Nenagh anytime after 11.10am , then i have to wait to get back into Colbert station at 21.15

I admit defeat and drive instead.

Do i want to use the service? definitely
Is the service objectively adequate considering the size of towns? definitely not

They need modern trains. That cater for bikes and standing passenger's. Then sort out the speed.

end of the road

Limpy wrote: »

They need modern trains. That cater for bikes and standing passenger's. Then sort out the speed.

the current trains can take standing passengers, but i would agree that ideally bike spaces should exist all be it i don't think there are any available places to put them on the particular trains used.
the current trains are 20 years old which is about half life for a train so won't be replaced yet, granted they are noisy rickety old yokes as i can attest to having had the misfortune of having to endure them.

Limpy

end of the road wrote: »

the current trains can take standing passengers, but i would agree that ideally bike spaces should exist all be it i don't think there are any available places to put them on the particular trains used.
the current trains are 20 years old which is about half life for a train so won't be replaced yet, granted they are noisy rickety old yokes as i can attest to having had the misfortune of having to endure them.

Could they move current Train to another job. Considering how rural the surrounding areas are, having Space for bikes would bring a lot of people into play. I hope it happens it would be a big boost for east Limerick/Tipp and the surrounding areas.

end of the road

Limpy wrote: »

Could they move current Train to another job. Considering how rural the surrounding areas are, having Space for bikes would bring a lot of people into play. I hope it happens it would be a big boost for east Limerick/Tipp and the surrounding areas.

they wouldn't be able to move them currently as there isn't anything to replace them with, unfortunately we are cronically short of stock.
there are going to be improvements to the dublin suburban services in the near future which will bring new stock which should release stock.
granted a lot of what it will release, will be similar to the existing trains but are 4 cars instead of 2, so should allow room for some bike spaces with a refurbishment.
granted we can only speculate at the moment in relation to stock cascades.

dowlingm

end of the road wrote: »

there are going to be improvements to the dublin suburban services in the near future which will bring new stock which should release stock.
granted a lot of what it will release, will be similar to the existing trains but are 4 cars instead of 2, so should allow room for some bike spaces with a refurbishment.

Even if the 29000s do make it to Limerick area (rather than cascade 2600s from Cork if/when they get 29Ks) reports from other threads would indicate they will need some serious TLC first given how hard they have been flogged in Dublin area as well as subbing on Enterprise

daniel_t1409

I was on a 29000 on the Dublin/Rosslare line recently, they are badly in need of a cleanup and are outdated compared to some of the 22k's which have usb sockets, new seats etc.

Del.Monte

daniel_t1409 wrote: »

I was on a 29000 on the Dublin/Rosslare line recently, they are badly in need of a cleanup and are outdated compared to some of the 22k's which have usb sockets, new seats etc.

And doors between carriages that you don't need to be Charles Atlas to open.

Isambard

Del.Monte wrote: »

And doors between carriages that you don't need to be Charles Atlas to open.

cue dozens of young fellers googling who dafuq Charles Atlas was.

end of the road

dowlingm wrote: »

Even if the 29000s do make it to Limerick area (rather than cascade 2600s from Cork if/when they get 29Ks) reports from other threads would indicate they will need some serious TLC first given how hard they have been flogged in Dublin area as well as subbing on Enterprise

yes i would second those reports.

Losty Dublin

Isambard wrote: »

cue dozens of young fellers googling who dafuq Charles Atlas was.

Charles Atlas? Didn't he used to be chairman of the IRRS Maps sub committee?

Isambard

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Charles Atlas? Didn't he used to be chairman of the IRRS Maps sub committee?

that was Charles Satnav I think

Markcheese

Interesting how nigra talked about the really poor timetable ,which was answered with " they need better trains "
It's really not a line that's run for the benefit of passengers ...

tabbey

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Charles Atlas? Didn't he used to be chairman of the IRRS Maps sub committee?

He could have been but I thought he was the chap who used to lift 2509 back onto the track when it would derail on I R R S railtours.

Incidentally, 2509 used to work a local service Nenagh to Limerick in the 60s, and it didn't even have a loo. I don't know what the timing was, but it would be hard to be slower than the present service.

Deedsie

Markcheese wrote: »

Interesting how nigra talked about the really poor timetable ,which was answered with " they need better trains "
It's really not a line that's run for the benefit of passengers ...

Timetable and speed of the trains are the priority on this line.. passengers would happily forego a usb plug for anything related to an adequate service.

Ive brought my bike on this service before. Space isnt an issue usually due to low passenger numbers. There was no proper bike stand etc. I just leaned it up against a wall and sat beside it.

Upgrade the line between Nenagh and Limerick. Maybe look at joining the line directly to the Dublin - Cork line stopping at Portlaoise.

If you can make the line at least competitive with the speed of a fairly crappy bus service then the fortunes of the line would turn around very quickly.

Its not rocket science. Invest in the infrastructure where the line is in the worst condition. Between Nenagh and Limerick. To my knowledge this is by far the slowest section of the line where it should be the most efficient.

Financial fallout from covid could prob kill the line unfortunately.

ohographite

Deedsie wrote: »

Financial fallout from covid could prob kill the line unfortunately.

That is my fear too.

tabbey

Deedsie wrote: »

Upgrade the line between Nenagh and Limerick. Maybe look at joining the line directly to the Dublin - Cork line stopping at Portlaoise.

Invest in the infrastructure where the line is in the worst condition. Between Nenagh and Limerick. To my knowledge this is by far the slowest section of the line where it should be the most efficient.
.

The problem here is that the sections Nenagh to Limerick, are the least suitable for speed, due to curvature. Nenagh to Ballybrophy or better still, direct up the main line, offers the best option for speed and journey time reduction. 90 or 100mph would be reasonable over most of this line once the cwr is stressed and bedded down.
There is no point in terminating trains at Portlaoise, three, four or five trains each way per day between Limerick and Dublin via Nenagh is what you need to compete with the bus services on this corridor, anything less is a token which is bound to fail.

Deedsie

tabbey wrote: »

The problem here is that the sections Nenagh to Limerick, are the least suitable for speed, due to curvature. Nenagh to Ballybrophy or better still, direct up the main line, offers the best option for speed and journey time reduction. 90 or 100mph would be reasonable over most of this line once the cwr is stressed and bedded down.
There is no point in terminating trains at Portlaoise, three, four or five trains each way per day between Limerick and Dublin via Nenagh is what you need to compete with the bus services on this corridor, anything less is a token which is bound to fail.

Well quite a large number of people from Nenagh and Roscrea work in Portlaoise so there would certainly be more of a point terminating the line in Portlaoise rather than the current ballybrophy stop.

I agree the section of line between Limerick in Nenagh is a disaster. Too many gates, crossings, public roads etc etc

daniel_t1409

Deedsie wrote: »

passengers would happily forego a usb plug for anything related to an adequate service.
.

Well yes but they are handy for tech nerds like me

Jamie2k9

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/news/593439/tipperary-rail-campaigners-welcome-moves-on-engineer-s-report-on-local-line.html

North Tipperary Community Rail Partnership has secured a commitment from Irish Rail to have an engineer’s report carried out on the Ballybrophy to Limerick rail line with a view to increasing train speeds along the track.

They said that Irish Rail had also agreed to propose to the National Transport Authority that an additional service run in the middle of the day.

Del.Monte

Dicking about with the timetable has been tried and is pointless. The only thing that will save this line is a direct Dublin facing curve at Ballybrophy and increased line speeds. At the same time planned expansion of towns such as Nenagh and Roscrea wouldn't go amiss.

seekers

daniel_t1409 wrote: »

Well yes but they are handy for tech nerds like me

They are a selling point. I always book rail due to charging points for phones

seekers

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/news/593439/tipperary-rail-campaigners-welcome-moves-on-engineer-s-report-on-local-line.html

It's a start. The Ennis line expansion of service came that way also

Markcheese

Del.Monte wrote: »

Dicking about with the timetable has been tried and is pointless. The only thing that will save this line is a direct Dublin facing curve at Ballybrophy and increased line speeds. At the same time planned expansion of towns such as Nenagh and Roscrea wouldn't go amiss.

As in direct limerick to Dublin trains ?
And abandon colbert to limerick junction ?

tabbey

Markcheese wrote: »

As in direct limerick to Dublin trains ?
And abandon colbert to limerick junction ?

There is no need to abandon the wlr route, in fact, a longer, faster direct curve at the junction is long overdue, with five or six direct trains Limerick to and from Dublin.

Pete_Cavan

Just looking at it, the Level Crossing at R445 should be relatively easy to close with a new bridge to the west. About 450m of new road on the other side would also allow for the closure of the next LC south. I'm sure the one to the north could also be closed, possibly without doing anything else or with a short stretch of road.

I'm sure a single bridge and well laid out link roads could allow for the closure of three LCs between R503 and R506 inclusive. I think that kind of targeted investment would have a lot of benefit.