Shotgun Substitution

ZiabR

Been shooting sporting clay for 2 years now. Love the sport. Don't shoot game, so my only use for my shotgun is clay, skeet, trap etc.

I am looking to finally move up from my beloved Lanber Gold Deluxe Sporter.

I have never done a gun substitution before so looking to know if it is an easy process to change my gun?

Once I decide on a gun I wish to move to, do I have to leave my current Lanber with the dealer while my application is processed or can I still use my Lanber up until I collect the new gun?

How long do substitution applications take? As I already have a licence, I imagine that it is faster than a new application?

Thanks,

Gorgeousgeorge

trade in your lanber against said new gun or put it in storage as you are substituting the licence you cant keep the firearm.

very easy process just use the fca1 form again for the substitution.

substitutions can take anywhere from days to months, all depends on your local super/fo

lanbers are a good shotgun why are you trading up?

ZiabR

I have been toying with the idea of moving from the Lanber to maybe a Beretta 686, Browning 525 or a Miroku MK70.

I know the Lanber is a good gun, its a great gun. Has never let me down and it is well looked after. They are bullet proof really. Excuse the pun.

I don't know what to do. I was thinking it trading the Lanber and adding 400-600 euro and picking up another second hand gun.

I don't want to break the bank.

Gorgeousgeorge

ZiabR wrote: »

I have been toying with the idea of moving from the Lanber to maybe a Beretta 686, Browning 525 or a Miroku MK70.

I know the Lanber is a good gun, its a great gun. Has never let me down and it is well looked after. They are bullet proof really. Excuse the pun.

I don't know what to do. I was thinking it trading the Lanber and adding 400-600 euro and picking up another second hand gun.

I don't want to break the bank.

They are all good guns just personal preference separates them. Fitment is key to your shooting as well.

ZiabR

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

They are all good guns just personal preference separates them. Fitment is key to your shooting as well.

What do you shoot and why?

Gorgeousgeorge

ZiabR wrote: »

What do you shoot and why?

dt11 acs

reliability and fully adjustable for each discipline i shoot. can switch my point of impact in about 30 seconds.

Cass

ZiabR wrote: »

I have never done a gun substitution before so looking to know if it is an easy process to change my gun?

Yup.

To do a substitution fill out the FCA1 as follows:

• Section 1 - Tick "substitution", and "I have not held a cert............".
• Section 2.1 - All of it.
• Section 2.4 - All of it.
• Section 3.1 - Input the details of new gun here
• Section 3.2 - Tick Silencer if you want one/want to carry it to your new license
• Section 3.3 - Dealers details.
• Section 3.4 - Input your current firearm details here.
• Section 3.5 - All of it.
• Section 4.1 - All of it.
• Section 4.2 - All of it.
• Section 4.3 - Depending on whether you are a member of a range or gun club.
• Section 5.1 - All of it.
• Sign and date it.

Include a single photo, sign and date it.

Once I decide on a gun I wish to move to, do I have to leave my current Lanber with the dealer while my application is processed or can I still use my Lanber up until I collect the new gun?

You can use it up until you sub the gun, but if you're trading the gun common practice is to surrender the gun to the RFD so it doesn't not gt anymore use or damage while the substitution is happening.

How long do substitution applications take?

The guidelines are 14 days. It doesn't stipulate working days, but allow up to three weeks to be sure.

As I already have a licence, I imagine that it is faster than a new application?

Its meant to be as you're already approved and are just seeking to have that authorisation transferred to the new gun.

Username Exists.

My last sub I asked the Guard to fill out Section 7 in front of me. That way the form is date stamped on the spot and doesn't sit on a desk for who knows how long before they get to it.

Needless to say the Guard wasn't impressed. "What" "You want to witness me stamping the form"?????
Yes I said. I just want to make sure that we are both happy that all the details are correct.

Had it back in the two weeks from a station with numerous complaints.

You can only ask.

ZiabR

Thanks for all of the details. I am going to take a trip to my club this weekend and see if there is anything they have that I take a liking to. They do have a large selection of Browning and Beretta in stock but if I had my choice I would pick a Miroku MK70 Sporter. It is something different and they are solid guns. Hard to find it seems.

Gorgeousgeorge

ZiabR wrote: »

Thanks for all of the details. I am going to take a trip to my club this weekend and see if there is anything they have that I take a liking to. They do have a large selection of Browning and Beretta in stock but if I had my choice I would pick a Miroku MK70 Sporter. It is something different and they are solid guns. Hard to find it seems.

keep an eye out for the mk38.

ZiabR

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

keep an eye out for the mk38.

I actually came across the MK38 but it was sold sadly. Beautiful gun though.

Gorgeousgeorge

ZiabR wrote: »

I actually came across the MK38 but it was sold sadly. Beautiful gun though.

browning 525 is the same if you cant find your miroku of choice, small differences in rib and comb height i think but the same action

ZiabR

Thanks for that. I dont have the money to buy a new 525 or 686 but along with the trade in from my Lanber I do have enough to get a decent second hand gun.
Question is, which one. I have shot my brother 686 a number of times, lovely gun, handles well.

I am leaning towards the 525 but I hear they are a little softer than the 686. Have I anything to worry about with the 525, anything I should be looking out for?

Gorgeousgeorge

ZiabR wrote: »

Thanks for that. I dont have the money to buy a new 525 or 686 but along with the trade in from my Lanber I do have enough to get a decent second hand gun.
Question is, which one. I have shot my brother 686 a number of times, lovely gun, handles well.

I am leaning towards the 525 but I hear they are a little softer than the 686. Have I anything to worry about with the 525, anything I should be looking out for?

the 525 has come in many guises over the years you should have no problem picking up a second hand one within your budget.

they are very reliable as is the beretta. i shot an old wide action s682 for a few years it was 30 years old and never a bother with it. anyway as most will tell you once you pick up the right gun, you will know it

ZiabR

Went for a 525 in the end. Substitution was submitted this morning. Will keep you posted on the time it takes for it to be granted.

ZiabR

In relation to a like for like substitution, can someone who has done one before confirm something for me.

I dont have to pay to do a substitution, so what is the process?

The Sub is submitted, approved internally and sent for processing. Once processed a new licence just arrives in the post OR do I get another letter before the licence saying that the sub has been approved?

I am just not sure of the process or if there is anything more I need to do.

Gorgeousgeorge

ZiabR wrote: »

In relation to a like for like substitution, can someone who has done one before confirm something for me.

I dont have to pay to do a substitution, so what is the process?

The Sub is submitted, approved internally and sent for processing. Once processed a new licence just arrives in the post OR do I get another letter before the licence saying that the sub has been approved?

I am just not sure of the process or if there is anything more I need to do.

No money needs to be paid. Just follow the fca1 instruction for a sub. Make sure you have your letter for your where your old gun is gone and the receipt for the new gun attached. Licence will come in the post. Might get a letter to confirm the application is received but it's fairly handy if it's like for like

ZiabR

Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »

No money needs to be paid. Just follow the fca1 instruction for a sub. Make sure you have your letter for your where your old gun is gone and the receipt for the new gun attached. Licence will come in the post. Might get a letter to confirm the application is received but it's fairly handy if it's like for like

Thanks George, that is what I did. All seems to be in hand so. Looking forward to getting my first new gun. All I have ever owned is second hand guns.

I bought myself a new Browning 525 Sporter One 30 inche. Cant wait for give it a shot.

Gorgeousgeorge

ZiabR wrote: »

Thanks George, that is what I did. All seems to be in hand so. Looking forward to getting my first new gun. All I have ever owned is second hand guns.

I bought myself a new Browning 525 Sporter One 30 inche. Cant wait for give it a shot.

a fine choice that will serve you for years, best of luck with it

ZiabR

Submitted my sub on the 25th Nov. Was signed off by FO and Super within two weeks. Fast forward to 8th Jan and not a peep. Spoke with my FO (who is a friend) and they tell me the civilian staff only returned to work on the 6th.

My thinking is that I can write 23rd - 6th off as Civilian staff were not working.

That would technically leave me waiting 4 working weeks to date but in reality I am moving into week 7 since purchasing my new gun.

Oh how I love this waiting game.

cavan shooter

ZiabR wrote: »

Submitted my sub on the 25th Nov. Was signed off by FO and Super within two weeks. Fast forward to 8th Jan and not a peep. Spoke with my FO (who is a friend) and they tell me the civilian staff only returned to work on the 6th.

My thinking is that I can write 23rd - 6th off as Civilian staff were not working.

That would technically leave me waiting 4 working weeks to date but in reality I am moving into week 7 since purchasing my new gun.

Oh how I love this waiting game.

Ring the station and ask them what the story is, as you have a shoot to go to and any chance. If you cant get the garda just ask to be put through to the Supers' Office that your chasing a substitution etc etc.......5 days is the longest I had to wait (It is a substitution) best of luck with it and enjoy

ZiabR

cavan shooter wrote: »

Ring the station and ask them what the story is, as you have a shoot to go to and any chance. If you cant get the garda just ask to be put through to the Supers' Office that your chasing a substitution etc etc.......5 days is the longest I had to wait (It is a substitution) best of luck with it and enjoy

All sorted.I got a phone call on Friday morning from the civilian office asking me to confirm the make of the new gun. Lovely lady said they are just completely snowed under at the moment and that my application would be processed by 4pm on Friday. So I am hoping to receive the licence today.

Cass

Any joy?

ZiabR

Cass wrote: »

Any joy?

Nothing, when I spoke with the person in the civilian office they had my application open on Pulse and were just filling in the details as we were speaking. 30 minutes later I got another courtesy call to say that the application was processed.

So Since Friday, I am waiting for someone, somewhere to press "Print". Seems absolutely crazy and it really is infuriating at this stage.

The process is broken, plain and simple.

EDIT: I decided to contact the civilian office that processed my application as I have the person I was dealing with contact information. So I just dropped them a mail there and am awaiting a response. In fairness I am almost 8 weeks waiting on a substitution, so I just want some clarification.

ZiabR

Licence arrived this morning. Just shy of 8 weeks for the sub.

Cass

Waited nearly four months on mine so in these times 8 weeks seems fast to me.

Anywho, congrats on finally getting it, and happy shooting.

ZiabR

Cass wrote: »

Waited nearly four months on mine so in these times 8 weeks seems fast to me.

Anywho, congrats on finally getting it, and happy shooting.

Thanks Cass, got out at the weekend for a few hours, very happy with my purchase. If I am honest, the waiting times and the way that the applicants are treated would put anyone off doing it again.

Cass

Was talking to an FO recently that i met in a gun shop, not my FO, and he explained that there is a large backlog especially in the bigger counties (not population wise, but gun ownership level wise), and they are working hard to get through it. He said it was down to a large number of subs, new applications all combined with them coming in at another three year renewal cycle.

I assume the civilian staff may be causing a slow down too. Was talking to two lads in the last week and they have had calls from the civilian staff member helping the FO to ask what a bolt action rifle is, what a 12 gauge shotgun is, and then one chap in particular who went for a sub, was told after 6 week he cannot do it by the civilian staff member, then applied for a new application, and was told 7 weeks later by the FO he should do a sub. In total it took him nearly 5 months to get it done and the license still came out marked wrong.

This is from a district that previous FOs had these done within weeks. Even during the three renewal cycle i never knew about it because the previous FOs never let it get to an unmanagable level .

ZiabR

This happened me during my sub. I was called by the civilian to confirm the model of 12g I was changing to even though I had provided a copy of the sales agreement which detailed the gun traded and the gun bought.

Cass

Cannot see the civilian thing lasting if it slows things down this much. Saying that when has slow administration ever been the cause for change? :rolleyes:

Peppa Cig

Cass wrote: »

Cannot see the civilian thing lasting if it slows things down this much. Saying that when has slow administration ever been the cause for change? :rolleyes:

Do we know if it is now civilians processing applications across country?

Do they report to a FO or replace FO’s?

Cass

Peppa Cig wrote: »

Do we know if it is now civilians processing applications across country?

Don't know. I know of four districts using them so maybe its country wide or maybe its being trialed. It could also just be rolling out and not yet everywhere.

Do they report to a FO or replace FO’s?

I'd imagine report to. The law hasn't changed which means An Gardaí are still legally responsible for and the only ones able to issue firearm licenses.

ZiabR

Peppa Cig wrote: »

Do we know if it is now civilians processing applications across country?

Do they report to a FO or replace FO’s?

Yes, Civilian staff are now processing 99% of applications. They report to the FO (A standard Guard) and the FO reports to the Super.

The move to Civilian staff is the number one reason for the increase in wait times.

Vizzy

I submitted my renewal last Thursday at 11.03am to a civilian.
Received my approval letter this morning, so 6 days.

A bit of a record for me.

I put this down to the fact that the civilian took the application and processed it to the stage that it could be signed off by the FO and ultimately by the Super.

Just to say that I always check that EVERYTHING on the application is correctly filled and any necessary backup is included and then I check it again.Also, I ask the civilian (or the Garda as the case may be) to read through the application to make sure everything is in order.
FWIW, civilians processing the applications is the way to go.

ZiabR

That certainly is a record. I have never heard of anyone getting a response that fast. What part of the country are you in?

270WIN

FWIW, civilians processing the applications is the way to go.[/QUOTE]

Without a doubt..in my area the civil servant is very prompt but the super causes the delay.

Vizzy

ZiabR wrote: »

That certainly is a record. I have never heard of anyone getting a response that fast. What part of the country are you in?

Tipp but the District would be noted for the fact that the local Super is not "keen" to issue licences (in fact he is very "unkeen" if you follow me)