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Charging for picking up a dog

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    #32
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,497 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    €60 to get my dog back from 5he council pound after he got out through a small hole in the fence a few weeks ago. He was in overnight as they only open 9am to 12.30pm.
    Steep enough but glad to get him back safely.


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    #33
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    I don’t get why people are up in arms about the dog getting out here, op stated they accepted full responsibility, the question is do these guys have a legal right to demand payment for a chipped dog.


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    #34
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Discodog wrote: »
    The OP implies that it was there overnight. So probably more than one feed, exercise, cage cleaned out etc.

    If someone can't willingly pay €50, to a charity who rescues their dog, they shouldn't have a dog.

    Was it “rescued”?


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    #35
    killbillvol2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭killbillvol2


    begbysback wrote: »
    I don’t get why people are up in arms about the dog getting out here, op stated they accepted full responsibility, the question is do these guys have a legal right to demand payment for a chipped dog.

    They don't actually accept any responsibility. It happens regularly.


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    #36
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    begbysback wrote: »
    Was it “rescued”?

    Was it where it should be under control of the owner? Does it know the safe cross code? Can it request help?

    Rescue: save from a dangerous or difficult situation.


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    #37
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    begbysback wrote: »
    I don’t get why people are up in arms about the dog getting out here, op stated they accepted full responsibility, the question is do these guys have a legal right to demand payment for a chipped dog.
    The answer is probably. They would have at the very least a right to seek reasonable compensation for their expenses in picking up the dog and taking care of it.

    The dog could be held as a lien until the debt was released.

    Any judge would consider €50 a reasonable fee for the charity's time and give the owner a ticking off for not keeping his dog under control.


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    #38
    fed_u
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭fed_u


    OP have you checked to ensure that they are registered as a charity? Speak with the local pound about them too maybe..
    the fee is rather steep and how they dealt with you (claiming no chip & if you didn't pay the dog wouldn't be returned) clearly rubbed you the wrong way so paying the fee was an extra sucker punch..


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    #39
    amadangomor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭amadangomor


    seamus wrote: »
    The answer is probably. They would have at the very least a right to seek reasonable compensation for their expenses in picking up the dog and taking care of it.

    The dog could be held as a lien until the debt was released.

    Any judge would consider €50 a reasonable fee for the charity's time and give the owner a ticking off for not keeping his dog under control.

    The fact that the charity didn't suggest a payment but held the dog as a hostage until payment was paid is the issue.

    The charity were obviously making a point but they should be above such ruthless behaviour and should have made their point by persuasion, not like this.


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    #40
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    amadangomor wrote: »
    The fact that the charity didn't suggest a payment but held the dog as a hostage until payment was paid is the issue.

    The charity were obviously making a point but they should be above such ruthless behaviour and should have made their point by persuasion, not like this.

    Charity, or private business, they are entitled to a fee for their service. The op can take it up with the person who was kind enough to hand the dog in.


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    #41
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    fed_u wrote: »
    OP have you checked to ensure that they are registered as a charity? Speak with the local pound about them too maybe..
    the fee is rather steep and how they dealt with you (claiming no chip & if you didn't pay the dog wouldn't be returned) clearly rubbed you the wrong way so paying the fee was an extra sucker punch..

    Are charities precluded from charging for services? I don’t know, surely they are allowed to offset costs. I know some charitable clothes shops sell clothes.


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    #42
    Purple Mountain
    Registered Users Posts: 13,014 ✭✭✭✭Purple Mountain


    Ring him back and tell them you want a receipt and casually ask if they are registered for VAT.

    To thine own self be true



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    #43
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Purple Mountain wrote: »
    Ring him back and tell them you want a receipt and casually ask if they are registered for VAT.

    And be a contestant for a notable award.


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    #44
    bertsmom
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭bertsmom


    Op your attitude is just horrible. Would you ever cop on and show some gratitude that your relatives dog was taken care of.
    Saying you've spoken to them about the dog repeatedly getting out means sweet fcuk all.
    Frankly it sounds like the dog would be far better off being rehomed with someone to look after them properly. They deserve better.
    Do you think the people who assisted your dog bringing to get scanned, feeding, providing comfort etc should rely on the already failing careless owners making a donation of their own discretion? I wouldn't hold out much hope if you begrudge fifty euro to a rescue.


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    #45
    chandlerbing2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭chandlerbing2


    bertsmom wrote: »
    Op your attitude is just horrible. Would you ever cop on and show some gratitude that your relatives dog was taken care of.
    Saying you've spoken to them about the dog repeatedly getting out means sweet fcuk all.
    Frankly it sounds like the dog would be far better off being rehomed with someone to look after them properly. They deserve better.
    Do you think the people who assisted your dog bringing to get scanned, feeding, providing comfort etc should rely on the already failing careless owners making a donation of their own discretion? I wouldn't hold out much hope if you begrudge fifty euro to a rescue.

    Would it be okay with you if they asked for 500 euro to get your dog back??

    No they shouldn’t have demanded 50 euro from you charity or not. What if it was someone who couldn’t afford it at the time? The charities should have a device that can read the chip

    If it was my dog and someone found it I would automatically give them 50 euro for finding her regardless.

    The way the charity should have gone about this is hinting that they are a charity and they accept donations etc. Demanding 50 euro before you get your dog back is not right. If they tried that with me I would have ringing the cops on them. If they hinted they accept donations I would gladly give them 50 euro or more.

    And yea border your property better to keep your doing in!!


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    #46
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,289 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    This is an extract from the Control of Dogs Act 1986

    13.—(1) Any person, other than a dog warden or a member of the Garda Síochána, who finds and takes possession of a stray dog shall, forthwith—

    (a) return the dog to its owner, or

    (b) deliver the dog to a dog warden, or

    (c) detain the dog and give notice in writing containing a description of the dog, the address of the place where it was found, and the address of the place where it is detained to the member in charge at the nearest Garda Station to the place where the dog was found, or to a dog warden.

    The full Act may be viewed here - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1986/act/32/enacted/en/html


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    #47
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    elperello wrote: »
    This is an extract from the Control of Dogs Act 1986

    13.—(1) Any person, other than a dog warden or a member of the Garda Síochána, who finds and takes possession of a stray dog shall, forthwith—

    (a) return the dog to its owner, or

    (b) deliver the dog to a dog warden, or

    (c) detain the dog and give notice in writing containing a description of the dog, the address of the place where it was found, and the address of the place where it is detained to the member in charge at the nearest Garda Station to the place where the dog was found, or to a dog warden.

    The full Act may be viewed here - http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1986/act/32/enacted/en/html

    Does it say a private entity whose business is boarding and caring for it can’t charge for their service? Maybe it does.


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    #48
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,037 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Charity, or private business, they are entitled to a fee for their service. The op can take it up with the person who was kind enough to hand the dog in.

    Entitled to charge for a service, they are not entitled to perform a service that wasnt agreed to by the owner!

    Can I cut your grass and then force you to pay me, even though you didnt ask me to do it, but I "rescued" your garden from dangerously long fescue?


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    #49
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,289 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Does it say a private entity whose business is boarding and caring for it can’t charge for their service? Maybe it does.

    Maybe a quick read of the Act will answer your question.
    According to the OP there was no contract entered into by the OP's father.


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    #50
    chandlerbing2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭chandlerbing2


    It’s like someone handing in your phone into the cops and them demanding 50 euro for you to have phone back.

    Charity should be constantly hinting they take donations when the owner was picking up the dog or ask would like to make a donation for us looking after the dog. Not demanding 50 quid to have your dog back.


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    #51
    frillyleaf
    Registered Users Posts: 801 ✭✭✭frillyleaf


    adam88 wrote: »
    Mods- not sure if this is the right forum. Feel free to move.

    Basically, my father has a dog, the dog keeps getting out and we accept full responsibility for this. Yesterday the dog went missing and a local rang a local dog charity to pick up the dog, this morning they posted it on Facebook and we knew it was our dog. My father went over to collect the dog and the dog would not be released until a fee of 50 euros was handed over. The person who runs this charity said the dog did not have a chip despite we having proof it was chipped.

    This charity is in no way connect to the county council and as far as they are concerned have no right to collect dogs and charge for the service. I rang this man and asked him to give the money back to my father and the abuse I received was uncalled for. When asked what would happen if he didn’t pay the money he said he’d have kept the dog. Surely this isn’t right, the guards say it’s a civil matter.

    I’d be more than willing to pay a donation but when the local pound only charge 15 euros a night I think his charge of 50 euro is very wrong.

    Any advice on how to approach this

    Hi OP, your fathers keeps getting out therefore is not under control. I can assume there was no clear identification on the dog which is a requirement for any dog in a public place.

    The fact the dog was out - the night before Halloween - is quite careless. I would be understanding if it wasn’t a case that it keeps getting out and the garden needs to be secured.

    People need to realise that stray dogs with no identification can cause a lot of problems. Road accidents, injured dog biting someone not to mention the hassle of the kind owner taking it in and keeping it for the night. The dog may need to be rechipped if it’s not being picked up on a scanner.

    The charity needs to keep it separate from other dogs, provide a kennel, provide food, not to mention cleaning area thoroughly when the dog is gone. Not to mention the person’s time who found it who was kind enough to bring it there....

    I do feel €50 is excessive though. They should have asked for money for a chip at the very least


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    #52
    hawkelady
    Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    Dav010 wrote: »
    And be a contestant for a notable award.

    Seems like you’d be the winner of that particular award !!! He is quite entitled to ask and receive a receipt.... if he wasn’t given one , it would lead me to believe he’s been scammed


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    #53
    bertsmom
    Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭bertsmom


    chandlerbing2 wrote:
    Would it be okay with you if they asked for 500 euro to get your dog back??
    I have never in twenty years of owning dogs had either of my dogs out of my property without me being with them. EVER. Its not rocket science but yes if my own carelessness and stupidity cost me five hundred then I would gladly pay it to get them home.
    chandlerbing2 wrote:
    No they shouldn’t have demanded 50 euro from you charity or not. What if it was someone who couldn’t afford it at the time? The charities should have a device that can read the chip
    Why shouldn't they request proper payment. If you cant afford the money perhaps you need to rethink dog ownership as it very often can throw up unexpected expenses ie emergency boarding or vet visit etc.
    Its a charity why "should" it have a device to read the chip? Relying on charity donation I'd say food and board is mpre of a priority than doing careless owners legwork of tracking them down.
    chandlerbing2 wrote:
    If it was my dog and someone found it I would automatically give them 50 euro for finding her regardless.
    Exactly it makes sense. I totally agree.
    chandlerbing2 wrote:
    The way the charity should have gone about this is hinting that they are a charity and they accept donations etc. Demanding 50 euro before you get your dog back is not right. If they tried that with me I would have ringing the cops on them. If they hinted they accept donations I would gladly give them 50 euro or more.
    Hinting at someone who hasn't even bothered to properly care for their dog would be quite a fruitless task. I think straight talking and saying what you mean or want is always preferable to hinting. As for ringing the cops yes I can imagine they would immediately race to the scene to assist the owner of the dog whose life has possibly been saved by a charity who fed and cared for it whilst it's owner is so outraged at paying fifty euro to get his poor dog back until the next time.


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    #54
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Entitled to charge for a service, they are not entitled to perform a service that wasnt agreed to by the owner!

    Can I cut your grass and then force you to pay me, even though you didnt ask me to do it, but I "rescued" your garden from dangerously long fescue?

    Are you comparing your garden to a stray dog taken in and boarded/cared for? On a simple level, the person cutting your lawn would be trespassing without your permission.


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    #55
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    hawkelady wrote: »
    Seems like you’d be the winner of that particular award !!! He is quite entitled to ask and receive a receipt.... if he wasn’t given one , it would lead me to believe he’s been scammed

    That is subjective, others would argue that looking after a dog overnight and caring for it is deserving of a charge. Of course the op is entitled of a receipt, the op might clarify.


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    #56
    chandlerbing2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭chandlerbing2


    bertsmom wrote: »
    I have never in twenty years of owning dogs had either of my dogs out of my property without me being with them. EVER. Its not rocket science but yes if my own carelessness and stupidity cost me five hundred then I would gladly pay it to get them home.


    Why shouldn't they request proper payment. If you cant afford the money perhaps you need to rethink dog ownership as it very often can throw up unexpected expenses ie emergency boarding or vet visit etc.
    Its a charity why "should" it have a device to read the chip? Relying on charity donation I'd say food and board is mpre of a priority than doing careless owners legwork of tracking them down.


    Exactly it makes sense. I totally agree.


    Hinting at someone who hasn't even bothered to properly care for their dog would be quite a fruitless task. I think straight talking and saying what you mean or want is always preferable to hinting. As for ringing the cops yes I can imagine they would immediately race to the scene to assist the owner of the dog whose life has possibly been saved by a charity who fed and cared for it whilst it's owner is so outraged at paying fifty euro to get his poor dog back until the next time.

    If I reported my dog as stolen I’m pretty sure the cops would turn up when I said I knew where the dog was and they there holding me to ransom to get the dog back. Let’s just say your dog got out and I’m your neighbour and I demanded 500 euro for you to get your dog back? Would you give me the 500 euro?

    The way the charity is going about it is all wrong. I admire what they do believe me but holding someone to ransom is completely the wrong way to go about it.

    Mod
    The request was for 50 Euro, not 500. Pls avoid diversions


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    #57
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,019 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    elperello wrote: »
    Maybe a quick read of the Act will answer your question.
    According to the OP there was no contract entered into by the OP's father.

    As you have read it, which part precludes the charity from charging for its services?


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    #58
    chandlerbing2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭chandlerbing2


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As you have read it, which part precludes the charity from charging for its services?

    You didn’t agree to it that’s why they can’t charge.

    It’s like an electrician rocking up to your house and rewriting your house while your not there and billing you for it.

    Same thing!!!


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    #59
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,289 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As you have read it, which part precludes the charity from charging for its services?

    Look at the extract again.

    When the law says "shall" that's it.
    It is saying do this if you find a dog.
    The person who found the dog should have done one of the above.
    The charity should have advised the finder of their legal obligation.

    Nobody is allowed to charge you for services you have not contracted to receive.


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    #60
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Dav010 wrote: »
    As you have read it, which part precludes the charity from charging for its services?

    Which part of the act says you don't have to return the dog forthwith if you decide to hold it it pending payment?


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    #61
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,274 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    elperello wrote: »
    No matter how good their intentions a charity has no right to deprive you of your property ie. the dog and demand a fee for return of same.

    The dog was out lose, it could easily have been picked up by the council warden and be facing an Injection a week later, hit by car or bitten someone.

    They are lucky it isn't coming back in a bag, Some one had to catch it, mind it for a few hours, the op is sore that wasn't done for free.

    As other posts said, the op is lucky there isn't a solicitors letter arrived, count their good fortune and prevent reoccurring, though that doesn't seem to have happened to date.

    Whatever the right or wrong of the charity, the larger and much more significant fault lies with the owner and OP.


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