Women and programming

mr_fegelien

Why do so few do it? I used to go to a coderdojo in Dun Laoghaire for 10-18yr old and found it interesting how the gender dynamics were equal up until age 14. The only people 15 and over were male. I saw one girl there who was 17 but she only came for one day and never returned..lol.

Are women scared off from programming? It can't be ability because they even surpass men in science/maths in school so you'd actually expect them to be more in programming. Is there really perhaps an innate difference that pushes women away from it or mostly cultural programming of boys and girls?

the beer revolu

Perhaps she was scared of you, op.

ToddyDoody

Isn't it true that more men do programming because they can watch porn intermittently?

Leg End Reject

We'd rather just make sandwiches.

buckwheat

It's a bit of a strange one. I did higher Maths and of the 16 in the class the best four by far were girls. 3 A1s among them I think. Not one of them went on to do anything to do with maths or science

Amirani

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Are women scared off from programming? It can't be ability because they even surpass men in science/maths in school so you'd actually expect them to be more in programming.

Maths is one of the few (about 4 total I think) subjects that boys outperform girls in Leaving Cert.

That said, good mathematical abilities don't necessarily translate to good programming abilities, and vice versa.

biko

https://lmgtfy.com/?q=Women+and+programming+Why+do+so+few+do+it%3F&s=g

enfant terrible

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why do so few do it? I used to go to a coderdojo in Dun Laoghaire for 10-18yr old and found it interesting how the gender dynamics were equal up until age 14. The only people 15 and over were male. I saw one girl there who was 17 but she only came for one day and never returned..lol.

Are women scared off from programming? It can't be ability because they even surpass men in science/maths in school so you'd actually expect them to be more in programming. Is there really perhaps an innate difference that pushes women away from it or mostly cultural programming of boys and girls?

I thought the very best students in most subjects were male.

mr_fegelien

buckwheat wrote: »

It's a bit of a strange one. I did higher Maths and of the 16 in the class the best four by far were girls. 3 A1s among them I think. Not one of them went on to do anything to do with maths or science

Were they good at maths/science in particular or perhaps good at studying for subjects in general.

Big difference there...

anewme

Leg End Reject wrote: »

We'd rather just make sandwiches.

Programmed to make sandwiches.

Is that programming?

antimatterx

The ones iv come across are pretty good.

My manage is female, and she's an incredible engineer.

EL_Loco

They begin to wonder why people are so fascinated with them being good at maths and science so they go and do psychology to figure it out.

dxhound2005

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why do so few do it? I used to go to a coderdojo in Dun Laoghaire for 10-18yr old and found it interesting how the gender dynamics were equal up until age 14. The only people 15 and over were male. I saw one girl there who was 17 but she only came for one day and never returned..lol.

Are women scared off from programming? It can't be ability because they even surpass men in science/maths in school so you'd actually expect them to be more in programming. Is there really perhaps an innate difference that pushes women away from it or mostly cultural programming of boys and girls?

Why do you keep asking questions like this. You are at university, and you should know how to do the research yourself. After Hours people don't care about such things. If it's any help, it is not just in Ireland.

Parents are the main influencers and seem to have difficulty advising their daughters on Science, Technology, Engineering and Maths, and the of lack information and gender stereotypes surrounding the subjects are to blame.

The statistics across the European Union also reflect this with just 6% - 7% percent of technical careers being filled by women.

buckwheat

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Were they good at maths/science in particular or perhaps good at studying for subjects in general.

Big difference there...

True. Can't really remember but think they were good all rounders academically. All the same A1s in higher Maths take a certain amount of natural aptitude

Leg End Reject

anewme wrote: »

Programmed to make sandwiches.

Is that programming?

Yes, we've been doing it for years. :pac:

ToddyDoody

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Yes, we've been doing it for years. :pac:

I can see a Feminist Nazi getting upset.

EL_Loco

ToddyDoody wrote: »

I can see a Feminist Nazi getting upset.

through your binoculars or are you in the room with them?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Why do you keep asking questions like this. You are at university, and you should know how to do the research yourself.

That's a good one. University? I think not!

ToddyDoody

EL_Loco wrote: »

through your binoculars or are you in the room with them?

In my mind's eye

anewme

EL_Loco wrote: »

through your binoculars or are you in the room with them?

Probably through the Pyschic Hotline.

ToddyDoody

anewme wrote: »

Probably through the Pyschic Hotline.

Probably.

Leg End Reject

ToddyDoody wrote: »

I can see a Feminist Nazi getting upset.

Not at all, there just isn't any mystery to certain careers being more popular with one gender.

Ubbquittious

Hard to imagine it is a cultural thing. I went to college with girls who tried and failed to learn how to program, perhaps it's the way they see and understand the world. They don't want to look at the world in the crude, logical and dispassionate way that lends itself to programming.

mr_fegelien

Andrea Tangy Babyhood wrote: »

That's a good one. University? I think not!

This man knows it. I only got 20 points in 2017 and 114 points this year when I repeated. Doing a PLC. If I don't get into college my parents are throwing me out.

anewme

mr_fegelien wrote: »

This man knows it. I only got 20 points in 2017 and 114 points this year when I repeated. Doing a PLC. If I don't get into college my parents are throwing me out.

Oh be carefull OP, you must not let this happen.

If you get thrown out, you will be homeless living in a Wendy House and we will be at the massive loss of all these enlightening and educational threads.

mr_fegelien

anewme wrote: »

Oh be carefull OP, you must not let this happen.

If you get thrown out, you will be homeless living in a Wendy House and we will be at the massive loss of all these enlightening and educational threads.

Won't happen. I'll drink cyanide before that ever happens..

Leg End Reject

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Won't happen. I'll drink cyanide before that ever happens..

Anti-freeze didn't kill you, so good plan.

Ubbquittious

I don't buy the gender stereotypes thing. I have seen to many genuinely try to learn it and fail to believe that. One spent about 5 years trying to do electronic engineering and then decided to pack it in and become a nurse

Leg End Reject

Ubbquittious wrote: »

I don't buy the gender stereotypes thing. I have seen to many genuinely try to learn it and fail to believe that. One spent about 5 years trying to do electronic engineering and then decided to pack it in and become a nurse

Men and women have different aptitudes, it's not all conditioning and parental influence.

babi-hrse

They probably do go into it full of vigour like everyone else then as it gets harder as it does for everyone else maybe men just look at the money whereas they probably look at the lifestyle and become discouraged at the thought of spending countless hours alone in front of the computer getting fatter and stressed. While that does not happen to everyone it increases the likelihood of it happening. They probably stop then as it probably scares them off the idea of being considered successful is sitting in a swivel chair most of the day health falling apart and lessening chances of getting a date and potential mate because work took over. I know not all women want a man or to be married but I think most would always like the option to be open to them. Men tend not to think too hard about things like this with the idea that earn enough money you can fix the rest.

DutchGold98

Ask Jordan Peterson OP, he has some theories on it.

mr_fegelien

Leg End Reject wrote: »

Men and women have different aptitudes, it's not all conditioning and parental influence.

I have to agree somewhat even though it might sound sexist. In my politics module in college, guess who has never asked a question about politics....the girls.

There's a guy who's big into politics and a member of the Fianna Fail youth party. All other guys in the class seem to know a bit about politics even if we aren't that interested and ask questons. The girls, however don't.

That doesn't mean they're dumb but just different interests. Also very funny there's a strong gender divide.

mr_fegelien

DutchGold98 wrote: »

Ask Jordan Peterson OP, he has some theories on it.

Well I've listened to his podcasts and he says that the biggest gender differences are visible in Scandinavian countries where men and women are free to pursue interest

igCorcaigh

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Hard to imagine it is a cultural thing. I went to college with girls who tried and failed to learn how to program, perhaps it's the way they see and understand the world. They don't want to look at the world in the crude, logical and dispassionate way that lends itself to programming.

You don't know much women then, do you?

Sorry. Jokes aside, I'm a male programmer who has worked with a few female colleagues. I would imagine that there is a pressure still for girls in school to go for traditionally female job roles.

Of course a lot of the first programmers were female, for the reasons at that time.

Anyway, programming is a particular form of craft that may not suit most, regardless of gender.

DutchGold98

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Well I've listened to his podcasts and he says that the biggest gender differences are visible in Scandinavian countries where men and women are free to pursue interest

precisely.

DutchGold98

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I have to agree somewhat even though it might sound sexist. In my politics module in college, guess who has never asked a question about politics....the girls.

There's a guy who's big into politics and a member of the Fianna Fail youth party. All other guys in the class seem to know a bit about politics even if we aren't that interested and ask questons. The girls, however don't.

That doesn't mean they're dumb but just different interests. Also very funny there's a strong gender divide.

It's not sexist, it's this nonsense saying it is sexist that is blocking honest discussion on the matter.
Now they want equality of outcome - terrible idea.

Pherekydes

Anyone bring up Grace Hopper yet? :pac:

Exactly 40% of the females in my immediate family are trained programmers.

ToddyDoody

DutchGold98 wrote: »

It's not sexist, it's this nonsense saying it is sexist that is blocking honest discussion on the matter.
Now they want equality of outcome - terrible idea.

Now, the patriarchy was wrong but...

Pherekydes

DutchGold98 wrote: »

Now they want equality of outcome - terrible idea.

No. They want equality of opportunity.

dxhound2005

Pherekydes wrote: »

Anyone bring up Grace Hopper yet? :pac:

Exactly 40% of the females in my immediate family are trained programmers.

That's very exact.

anewme

mr_fegelien wrote: »

There's a guy who's big into politics and a member of the Fianna Fail youth party. All other guys in the class seem to know a bit about politics even if we aren't that interested and ask questons. The girls, however don't.

Does not mean they are not into Politics.

Just that they have a more accurate Bull**** radar than you.

babi-hrse

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That's very exact.

She's probably a programmer and thinks in absolutes

igCorcaigh

I really think that whatever gender driven innate drive for particular areas of work that might exist, is vastly overpowered by the social bias.

But we can never be sure until that bias is removed. And that's a historical struggle.

mr_fegelien

igCorcaigh wrote: »

You don't know much women then, do you?

Sorry. Jokes aside, I'm a male programmer who has worked with a few female colleagues. I would imagine that there is a pressure still for girls in school to go for traditionally female job roles.

Of course a lot of the first programmers were female, for the reasons at that time.

Anyway, programming is a particular form of craft that may not suit most, regardless of gender.

I don't think so. In fact I've read from some sociologists that there is now "reverse sexism" in the sense that women have been liberated from their traditional gender roles for 50 years (can pursue female careers or go into STEM) whereas males are discouraged from "lowering themselves" to female roles like nurses.

Ipso

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I have to agree somewhat even though it might sound sexist. In my politics module in college, guess who has never asked a question about politics....the girls.

There's a guy who's big into politics and a member of the Fianna Fail youth party. All other guys in the class seem to know a bit about politics even if we aren't that interested and ask questons. The girls, however don't.

That doesn't mean they're dumb but just different interests. Also very funny there's a strong gender divide.

If he's a member of FF, he's most likely big into what he can get for himself.

Beeping Kitchen Appliances

mr_fegelien wrote: »

"reverse sexism"

sexism = sexism - 1

BeerWolf

I did programming for 20 years... there are a LOT of women in the area.

arctictree

Its even worse when you look at contributors to open source projects. Very very few females there.

the beer revolu

I went into programming from school. Didn't like it, dropped out.
I'm, obviously, gender confused.

D3V!L

Correct me if I'm wrong but what I've seen of these coder dojos is the kids are literally dragging and dropping in a GUI interface and it's nothing to do with actually learning code.

branie2

I'm sure there are lot of them out there