COOLOCK residents are moving to try to block plans

NoteAgent

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Many have accepted they will never own their own home, however if proper tenant rights were implemented that exist in other European countries ownership would not be as important an issue to people.

Tenant rights? They already have far too much rights as it is. Its impossible to evict a dodgy tenant these days. Its all stacked in favour of the tenant and against the landlord (another reason for lack of supply). All you need to do as a tenant is feature on the news with a sob story about not being able to pay rent and everyone is up in arms and the landlord has to foot the bill.

lola85

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Yeah basically you are talking rubbish , despite the runaway budgets and the bringing the country to the brink of bankruptcy the FF governments built more social housing than the present FG governments of a similar time span. The figures are available online yet you claim there has been a housing crisis for the last 40 years, utter bullsh*t on your behalf.

FF actually sold all our social housing stock to buy votes and then stopped building social houses.

This year there will be 11,000 social houses built, the most in 20 years and after the construction sector was obliterated under FF.

Educate yourself before telling someone they’re talking bull****.

Plumbthedepths

lola85 wrote: »

FF actually sold all our social housing stock to buy votes and then stopped building social houses.

This year there will be 11,000 social houses built, the most in 20 years and after the construction sector was obliterated under FF.

Educate yourself before telling someone they’re talking bull****.

More rubbish on your part.

Boggles

NoteAgent wrote: »

But if supply increases enough, prices will come down. It always comes back to demand vs supply. Always.

Can you point to one period in the past 40 years where supply has reduced the price of property?

In a "functioning" market, not when the economy collapsed.

Thelonious Monk

I live near enough to the site and don't really care if they go up one way or another, but the Malahide road is already totally gridlocked and this will just make matters worse. Really they'd need to be improving public transport on that route to facilitate all the building that would happen there and up at Clongriffin and Clare Hall. I cycle to work so I wont be affected but this policy of building lots of dwellings without the required infrastructure is kind of ridiculous.

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I live near enough to the site and don't really care if they go up one way or another, but the Malahide road is already totally gridlocked and this will just make matters worse. Really they'd need to be improving public transport on that route to facilitate all the building that would happen there and up at Clongriffin and Clare Hall. I cycle to work so I wont be affected but this policy of building lots of dwellings without the required infrastructure is kind of ridiculous.

Key point there!

Malahide road is marketed by those in the property business as "One of the best Bus Corridors in the City"

Thing is though it's at full capacity at rush hour. It is not a pleasant journey into work.

Coolock is the wrong place for this development and the high rise development at the old Chivers site.

People whinging about "The Housing Crisis" need to realise that these are all going to be private dwellings, not council houses.
They will be sold to private individuals who will like rent a lot them back to the Council (IE Clongriffin MkII) at the Tax payers expense.

If the want to build high rise apartments they need to start in the centre of the city and work their way out, not the other way around.
The proposed development at the Chivers site will be the tallest building within a 5km radius. It's Ridiculous

Also as a side note on this, The last thing Coolock needs is more people. They area is seriously troubled, major drug problem, a lot of crime too. Add more people into the mix is a recipe for disaster.

marieholmfan

sdanseo wrote: »

There is a housing crisis. Building masses of social homes is not the answer and here is a private developer trying to build.

The worst sort of question begging.

Thelonious Monk

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Also as a side note on this, The last thing Coolock needs is more people. They area is seriously troubled, major drug problem, a lot of crime too. Add more people into the mix is a recipe for disaster.

Only small parts of it are bad really, for the most part it's fine. I would have thought the kind of people who could afford these apartments would be good for the area. I think it's great to build as much as possible on the site but how infrastructure doesn't come into the argument is just crazy.
Irish people don't want high rise for whatever reason so that wont be happening in our lifetimes. If you look at Manchester even they are currently creating a mini Manhattan in the centre, it's the only way forward, but Irish people prefer urban sprawl which creates lots of problems in itself.

Skylinehead

pablo128 wrote: »

Again, Coolock is nowhere near being in the middle of the city centre.

And 6 stories is nowhere near being high rise. There's far bigger buildings in Ballymun and I'm not even talking about the famous towers.

Not one but TWO! High Rise developments! :eek:

Then I read the article. One five storey and one 6 storey. FFS! :mad:

“Coolock is one of the oldest villages in Dublin. It retains a village feel, but this development would be right smack in the middle of it,” she said.

Are we talking about the same Coolock that my aunt lived in for 40+ years, and where I lived for 3?

It must be a different one. If not then that is the biggest load of bollox Ive ever read.

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Only small parts of it are bad really, for the most part it's fine. I would have thought the kind of people who could afford these apartments would be good for the area. I think it's great to build as much as possible on the site but how infrastructure doesn't come into the argument is just crazy.
Irish people don't want high rise for whatever reason so that wont be happening in our lifetimes. If you look at Manchester even they are currently creating a mini Manhattan in the centre, it's the only way forward, but Irish people prefer urban sprawl which creates lots of problems in itself.

Ah it's pretty bad now in fairness:
Adare
Kilbarron
Macroom
Darndale
Clarehall
etc
Rough areas.

I get what you're saying about high rise buildings.
We do need to start building them, but they need to be built in the right place.
IE city centre, within the Canals.

The oul lad lives in Coolock, I get the bus out to him often after work.
Despite Bus Lane and regulars services, you'd be lucky to get from Wexford St to Coolock in less than 60 mins in rush hour.

The infra just isn't there.
We need the infra first before building dwellings.

Note also, there is another 300 apartments going at Tesco Clare Hall.
No one would care if they just built the standard 80's 3 bed semi-D

But they're packing in as many as they possibly can.
I wouldn't buy a place like that to live in, Id' defo buy it if I could rent it out though and make a few bob off it. (Which is exactly whats happening)

Thelonious Monk

Well Darndale and Clarehall aren't Coolock. Also Clarehall rough? News to me!
Anyway building nice apartments isn't going to bring the tone of the place down is it!
High rise needs to go everywhere really. How come in well run countries in Germany and Switzerland and Austria etc they have 12 storey plus apartment blocks pretty much everywhere?

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well Darndale and Clarehall aren't Coolock.

Coolock Area

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Also Clarehall rough? News to me!

Good few nutters living in there.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Anyway building nice apartments isn't going to bring the tone of the place down is it!
High rise needs to go everywhere really. How come in well run countries in Germany and Switzerland and Austria etc they have 12 storey plus apartment blocks pretty much everywhere?

I'm sure they could do a nice job on them and they would look well. (They probably wont though)

Again, they start building up from the centre and work their way out.

12 stories is optimal height btw, and a lot of those 12 story apartment blocks do not have any parking. (Not everyone needs a car because the infra is so good). You try submitting planning permission for an apartment block with no parking and see how far it gets you...
I'm nearly sure there has to be parking on apartment builds (which again is stupid if you're building in the city centre)

Thelonious Monk

Yeah I heard that car park rule before, ridiculous in a city.
I'm pretty sure the malahide road is getting bus connects, really there should be a bus lane going all the way from Clare Hall to the city centre that is not obstructed with parking and cars and taxis and bottlenecks, but it seems the public don't want this either as they'll lose bits of their garden or something.
So nothing is going to change, onwards and outwards we go!

marieholmfan

NoteAgent wrote: »

Most government intervention proves itself to be a miserable failure time and time again.

Absurd. So public education has proved a miserable failure?

marieholmfan

marieholmfan wrote: »

Absurd. So public education has proved a miserable failure?

Absurd example.

The government announced they would be bringing in rent controls and my rent went up by 8% that night.

James Brown

NoteAgent wrote: »

But we're not allowing the market to do its thing with all this regulation against developers (ie the suppliers). You need to incentivise builders to build. But there is no incentive at the moment.

The government works for the housing market not the tax payer IMO.

NoteAgent wrote: »

Most government intervention proves itself to be a miserable failure time and time again.

And yes, that's the result. Why would house prices fall if there is a need, rental companies in the wings and government willing to subsidise renters so they can pay exorbitant rents?

The crisis has worsened year on year since Kenny's time and they insist on the same practices. I'd argue government intervention is working out great for some.

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah I heard that car park rule before, ridiculous in a city.
I'm pretty sure the malahide road is getting bus connects, really there should be a bus lane going all the way from Clare Hall to the city centre that is not obstructed with parking and cars and taxis and bottlenecks, but it seems the public don't want this either as they'll lose bits of their garden or something.
So nothing is going to change, onwards and outwards we go!

Inbound, there is bus lane the whole way in.
But like you said there are a few bottle necks.

Bus connect will help a bit but I don't think it's going to be a silver bullet that fixes all the issues.

Ultimately, the issue we have is that we have thousands of people that need public transport between 7am and 9am and again from 4pm to 6pm.
Outside these times the buses and other public transport units are effectively Idle.

If more people (not everyone) lived within walking distance to their job, that would relieve and awful lot of pressure.
IE Building high density residential buildings in town, and not out in the suburbs.

Beta Ray Bill

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Ultimately, the issue we have is that we have thousands of people that need public transport between 7am and 9am and again from 4pm to 6pm.

Outside these times the buses and other public transport units are effectively Idle.

What? Do you have any statistics to back this up? That's a pretty bold claim, considering the Malahide Rd. route is one of the busiest public transport arteries in the country.

Beta Ray Bill

Deleted User wrote: »

What? Do you have any statistics to back this up? That's a pretty bold claim, considering the Malahide Rd. route is one of the busiest public transport arteries in the country.

I'm not just talking about buses here.
I'm talking about public transport in general

peaktime.ie is a reasonably "OK" indicator on how bust the darts are.
During rush hour it's busy, but if you get on a Dart at say 2.45pm it's practically empty.

Same with Buses, Luas, etc
There is a cost associated with running these systems all day and there is also a capacity on how many can run any one time give the size/length/width of the road/rails (Where applicable)

This is the issue with public transport, everyone needs it at the same time.
peaktime.ie/Irish rail are now pushing those that can work flexi to come in later/earlier to relieve pressure on the trains, which are now at capacity.

Beta Ray Bill

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I'm not just talking about buses here.
I'm talking about public transport in general

peaktime.ie is a reasonably "OK" indicator on how bust the darts are.
During rush hour it's busy, but if you get on a Dart at say 2.45pm it's practically empty.

Same with Buses, Luas, etc
There is a cost associated with running these systems all day and there is also a capacity on how many can run any one time give the size/length/width of the road/rails (Where applicable)

This is the issue with public transport, everyone needs it at the same time.
peaktime.ie/Irish rail are now pushing those that can work flexi to come in later/earlier to relieve pressure on the trains, which are now at capacity.

Yeah, I get that you're talking about all PT combined, not just buses. But, bear in mind that we're talking about the Malahide Rd (MR) here......you're looking at a 10 min walk to Killester dart station from it and that's the nearest DART station to the MR as far as I can work out. Also, I'm pretty sure DB accounts for almost half of all public transport journeys in the entire country. I'll see if I can dig that stat up when I get a chance. (EDIT: According to that CSO link below, there were "A total of 217.6 million passengers were carried on scheduled bus services, 37.6 million passengers travelled on the Luas and 45.5 million passengers travelled by rail in 2017". So that's just over 300 million total, and DB accounted for 138 million of those according to the first table, or 46%....almost half is close enough)

Anyway, peaktime.ie is a load of cobblers, it doesn't give any sort of breakdown on passenger numbers by time of day. All it does is show which departures are less busy in the 7-9am bracket. Nothing on afternoon or evening loadings etc., and even the times they do show don't have any actual figures on passenger numbers or percentages. Beyond useless for comparison purposes.

After a bit of digging, however, I found this from the NTA in 2017 which gives a breakdown of passengers over various times in each city. Table 8.2:



According to that, the 7:00-9:00 and 16:00-18:00 rush hour totals are 15.5% & 17.5% of the daily totals for Dublin, or 33% in total. The hours in between the morning and evening rush hours add up to a total of 41.4% of the daily total.

Calling it "effectively idle" is, as I suspected, far from correct.

The pink killer

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I'm not just talking about buses here.
I'm talking about public transport in general

peaktime.ie is a reasonably "OK" indicator on how bust the darts are.
During rush hour it's busy, but if you get on a Dart at say 2.45pm it's practically empty.

Same with Buses, Luas, etc
There is a cost associated with running these systems all day and there is also a capacity on how many can run any one time give the size/length/width of the road/rails (Where applicable)

This is the issue with public transport, everyone needs it at the same time.
peaktime.ie/Irish rail are now pushing those that can work flexi to come in later/earlier to relieve pressure on the trains, which are now at capacity.

Are you from coolock ? The only place you mentioned that id consider a bit rough is darndale the rest aren't.

is_that_so

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Yeah I heard that car park rule before, ridiculous in a city.
I'm pretty sure the malahide road is getting bus connects, really there should be a bus lane going all the way from Clare Hall to the city centre that is not obstructed with parking and cars and taxis and bottlenecks, but it seems the public don't want this either as they'll lose bits of their garden or something.
So nothing is going to change, onwards and outwards we go!

DCC were supposed to be reconsidering the regulations. Shouldn't be an issue here as the car parking would likely be at street level and not underground.

shesty

I see the developer has offered the whole development as social housing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/developer-offers-471-apartments-for-social-housing-in-dublin-1.4058268?mode=amp

I am glad to see that councillors are remembering Ballymun.I know we need housing but I don't know if that is a solution.

shesty

shesty wrote: »

I am glad to see that councillors are remembering Ballymun.I know we need housing but I don't know if that is a solution.

This is the real sticking point for a lot of local residents, I imagine. 471 apartments, with an average occupancy of 3.5 people = 1650 social tenants suddenly moving into the area.

Idbatterim

But wouldnt these salt of the earth locals welcome more of the same. Many have had houses given to them for nothing , why begrudge people desperate for housing , free apartments? Those pr*cks have no more right to be there than anyone else ...

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

But wouldnt these salt of the earth locals welcome more of the same. Many have had houses given to them for nothing , why begrudge people desperate for housing , free apartments? Those pr*cks have no right to be there than anyone else ...

You obviously know sweet fcuk all about the inhabitants of Dublin 5 and its environs

Idbatterim

Bitch about congestion etc , don’t want bus connects. Don’t want anything ! No point in bitching about traffic etc , if they don’t want a solution. They are full time trolls!

Has the six storey “ tower” being referred to as Dubai like yet ?

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

Bitch about congestion etc , don’t want bus connects. Don’t want anything ! No point in bitching about traffic etc , if they don’t want a solution. They are full time trolls!

Has the six storey “ tower” being referred to as Dubai like yet ?

WTF are you talking about?
Who doesn't want BC?
Who's bitching about congestion and then shooting down the solutions?
You think people are trolling because they aren't particularly enamoured by the possibility of over 1500 new social housing tenants?
What has any of the above got to do with your previous post, anyway?
How many of the current residents are "salt of de earth" types who got free houses?

Lets entertain your notion for a second, and imagine that figure is huge, and the majority of those already living there are "on the social". That's an even bigger reason to not allow more SH tenants in, surely? I mean, nothing bad has ever come of lumping a load of poor, unemployed people with loads of kids in together......has it.....?

Except Ballymun, Ballyfermot, Finglas, Kilbarrack, practically the whole of Tallaght

lola85

All social tenants are SCUM!!

That’s according to people here and the residents.